So by this you mean if 2-4 of those are higher than what, the party average?If 2 Points (f.E. Attackpool and Damage) is higher than those of the Streetsam than its going to be a Challenge for the Party
I suppose that makes sense. So do you ignore the Professional Ratings entirely when figuring balance?
Just curious.
- Wraith
| Prof Rating | Grunt BP | Lieutenant BP |
| 0 | 100 | 175 |
| 1 | 150 | 225 |
| 2 | 200 | 325* |
| 3 | 225 | 300* |
| 4 | 275 | 400 |
| 5 | 400 | 525 |
| 6 | 575 | 625 |
A small insect spirit may be relatively weak, but if it manifests in the van with the rigger while the teams is elsewhere (good times), it can be very challenging.
For example; the SK kill outside the chopper. With a 4+ Professional rating the SK leader would have probably called in to the (now dead) pilot, "we're approaching the tarmac, warm the bird up." If the PCs thought of monitoring the communications they have to Con the leader. If they didn't think to monitor the communications, well, now the whole SK team knows their pilot isn't talking and something's up and they sure aren't going to just waltz up to the helicopter like a kid to candy store :) How different would the fight have been if the characters, watching stealthily from inside the chopper, saw the door to the helipad/roof swing open and only a small lone thermal smoke grenade jump out from the darkness beyond.
For example; the SK kill outside the chopper. With a 4+ Professional rating the SK leader would have probably called in to the (now dead) pilot, "we're approaching the tarmac, warm the bird up." If the PCs thought of monitoring the communications they have to Con the leader. If they didn't think to monitor the communications, well, now the whole SK team knows their pilot isn't talking and something's up and they sure aren't going to just waltz up to the helicopter like a kid to candy store :) How different would the fight have been if the characters, watching stealthily from inside the chopper, saw the door to the helipad/roof swing open and only a small lone thermal smoke grenade jump out from the darkness beyond.
The were monitoring coms and had dressed the rigger up in the pilot's gear (luckily he had a full flight helmet on). So the rigger had given (after a quick corporate knowledge role) an appropriate affirmative response. One thing that could have borked their plan was if the SK mage had astrally perceived after arriving on the roof. I decided to leave that one to chance and rolled for it. Lucky for the party the mage let his guard down. I had already mentally prepped this team as being a little green, and not top of their game (because I was afraid they would wipe the party otherwise).
All that being said, thanks for the added info. Seems like those two Lts, were just built wrong. I made myself a little guide that showed for each pro rating what the average skill and attribute was. It tended to up by like an average of half or quarter point plus better gear each pro rating.
Next thing that scares me about balance is multi PCs on one foe sort of encounters. I want to have a big bad guy (awakened beastie) in the next session. I just don't know how to make him not instant bullet fodder without making him ridiculous. I think I may go with Immune to Natural Weapons or something like that. Not sure yet. What have you guys general found was appropriate for this sort of thing? With PR grunt groups, I generally make it +/-1 of the number of party members. But what about 'solo' type mobs. Insane body and armor?
Thoughts?
(This always gave me the idea of a group of magical runners who would pick up a bum, buff the bejesus out of him, use control manipulations to make him go on a run, and then at the end they'd just scrub the astral signatures off of him and leave him in the street with a vague memory of what happened.)
That said, things like Immunity to Normal Weapons and Regeneration go a long way towards making big bads stick around for a bit. (That's why I like Insect Spirits and vampires.) Although both can be overwhelmed when runners concentrate their fire. Regen in particular is best used when the NPC can break contact for a round or two, or if the runners drop them and forget about them. Immunity to Normal Weapons or Hardened Armor (basically the same thing, the difference is who gets them) is okay, but a lot of the time it just ignores the weaker attacks it wouldn't be taking damage from anyway. It's also worth noting that neither of these things are that helpful against magical attacks, so the NPC still needs fairly hefty magical protections.
If you're looking for something to base it off of, dragon is probably the best example of a big bad in the BBB. Hardened Armor, Mystic Armor, high stats, lots of powers and magically active, plus the high intelligence. It's an easy choice for the scariest monster in the basic book. And I wouldn't call it "unbeatable" for 400BP characters. (Once the dice start rolling, anything is possible.)
Isn't it a gymnastics check to hold your balance?And you wonder why you're not in a game... :P
...
Misunderstood again, didn't I?
This is someone exposed to a virulent mutant strain of HMHVV. So the runners will have fought through ghouls and zombie like infected, only to find the source, and I wanted it to be a rather tough fight. I'll take the advice given on dice pools and such above and see what I can do with him, and give him plenty of edge so I can keep him around for quite some time.
There's a great editorial article by Roger E. Moore in an mid 80's Dragon Magazine where he tells the story of the hardest dungeon he ever went on (1st ed. D&D)...
[/spoiler]
Tucker's Kobolds
This month's editorial is about Tucker's kobolds. We get letters on occasion asking for advice on creating high-level AD&D® game adventures, and Tucker's kobolds seem to fit the bill.
Many high-level characters have little to do because they're not challenged. They yawn at tarrasques and must be forcibly kept awake when a lich appears. The DMs involved don't know what to do, so they stop dealing with the problem and the characters go into Character Limbo. Getting to high level is hard, but doing anything once you get there is worse.
One of the key problems in adventure design lies in creating opponents who can challenge powerful characters. Singular monsters like tarrasques and liches are easy to gang up on; the party can concentrate its firepower on the target until the target falls down dead and wiggles its little feet in the air. Designing monsters more powerful than a tarrasque is self-defeating; if the group kills your super-monster, what will you do next -- send in its mother? That didn't work on Beowulf, and it probably won't work here.
Worse yet, singular supermonsters rarely have to think. They just use their trusty, predictable claw/claw/bite. This shouldn't be the measure of a campaign. These games fall apart because there's no challenge to them, no mental stimulation - no danger.
In all the games that I've seen, the worst, most horrible, most awful beyond-comparison opponents ever seen were often weaker than the characters who fought them. They were simply well-armed and intelligent beings who were played by the DM to be utterly ruthless and clever. Tucker's kobolds were like that.
Tucker ran an incredibly dangerous dungeon in the days I was stationed at Ft. Bragg, N.C. This dungeon had corridors that changed all of your donkeys into huge flaming demons or dropped the whole party into acid baths, but the demons were wienies compared to the kobolds on Level One. These kobolds were just regular kobolds, with 1-4 hp and all that, but they were mean. When I say they were mean, I mean they were bad, Jim. They graduated magna cum laude from the Sauron Institute for the Criminally Vicious.
When I joined the gaming group, some of the PCs had already met Tucker's kobolds, and they were not eager to repeat the experience. The party leader went over the penciled map of the dungeon and tried to find ways to avoid the little critters, but it was not possible. The group resigned itself to making a run for it through Level One to get to the elevators, where we could go down to Level Ten and fight "okay" monsters like huge flaming demons.
It didn't work. The kobolds caught us about 60' into the dungeon and locked the door behind us and barred it. Then they set the corridor on fire, while we were still in it.
"NOOOOOO!!!" screamed the party leader. "It's THEM! Run!!!"
Thus encouraged, our party scrambled down a side passage, only to be ambushed by more kobolds firing with light crossbows through murder holes in the walls and ceilings. Kobolds with metal armor and shields flung Molotov cocktails at us from the other sides of huge piles of flaming debris, which other kobolds pushed ahead of their formation using long metal poles like broomsticks. There was no mistake about it. These kobolds were bad.
We turned to our group leader for advice.
"AAAAAAGH!!!" he cried, hands clasped over his face to shut out the tactical situation.
We abandoned most of our carried items and donkeys to speed our flight toward the elevators, but we were cut off by kobold snipers who could split-move and fire, ducking back behind stones and corners after launching steel-tipped bolts and arrows, javelins, hand axes, and more flaming oil bottles. We ran into an unexplored section of Level One, taking damage all the time. It was then we discovered that these kobolds had honeycombed the first level with small tunnels to speed their movements. Kobold commandos were everywhere. All of our hirelings died. Most of our henchmen followed. We were next.
I recall we had a 12th-level magic user with us, and we asked him to throw a spell or something. "Blast 'em!" we yelled as we ran. "Fireball 'em! Get those little @#+$%*&!!"
"What, in these narrow corridors? " he yelled back. "You want I should burn us all up instead of them?"
Our panicked flight suddenly took us to a dead-end corridor, where a giant air shaft dropped straight down into unspeakable darkness, far past Level Ten. Here we hastily pounded spikes into the floors and walls, flung ropes over the ledge, and climbed straight down into that unspeakable darkness, because anything we met down there was sure to be better than those kobolds.
We escaped, met some huge flaming demons on Level Ten, and even managed to kill one after about an hour of combat and the lives of half the group. We felt pretty good -- but the group leader could not be cheered up.
"We still have to go out the way we came in," he said as he gloomily prepared to divide up the treasure.
Tucker's kobolds were the worst things we could imagine. They ate all our donkeys and took our treasure and did everything they could to make us miserable, but they had style and brains and tenacity and courage. We respected them and loved them, sort of, because they were never boring.
If kobolds could do this to a group of PCs from 6th to 12th level, picture what a few orcs and some low level NPCs could do to a 12th-16th level group, or a gang of mid-level NPCs and monsters to groups of up to 20th level. Then give it a try. Sometimes, it's the little things -- used well -- that count.
Roger E. Moore
Well, now "damage" is the important term. Remember that they've been whittling on the party already. Keep in mind that even if you pop this group there are more, and you'll have done them the favor of bringing you closer to negative numbers. And last but not least, don't forget that the mage is mainly looking at his own hitpoints when considering casting a fireball at danger close.
It was also back when casting Fireball in an enclosed space caused the fire to shoot down the hall like a flamethrower. Meaning that the party would have been toast.
Zilfer, you're completely missing the point -- and getting bogged down in functionally useless speculation/contemplation. The point isn't 'how do you beat a group of Tucker's Kobolds', the point is the illustration of how completely overwhelming good tactics can be. Tucker used a race considered incredibly weak and contemptible to illustrate the point -- that good/clever tactics with what you have on hand can royally kick in the head of an individual (or group of individuals) considered significantly more powerful than you. And here's another point:These are the same tactical concepts used by every group of players since forever.
Hit and run; focus your attacks on a weak point. Trap an enemy, use terrain against them, etc. etc. etc. PC parties use it against opposition; there is no reason the opposition can't use it against them, except that the GM is trying to avoid a TPK.
One of the things that annoyed me till I got smart as a GM (1st ed) was that a decently high character could wander into a kobold village and slaughter them all without suffering as much as a hangnail.Zilfer, you're completely missing the point -- and getting bogged down in functionally useless speculation/contemplation. The point isn't 'how do you beat a group of Tucker's Kobolds', the point is the illustration of how completely overwhelming good tactics can be. Tucker used a race considered incredibly weak and contemptible to illustrate the point -- that good/clever tactics with what you have on hand can royally kick in the head of an individual (or group of individuals) considered significantly more powerful than you. And here's another point:These are the same tactical concepts used by every group of players since forever.
Hit and run; focus your attacks on a weak point. Trap an enemy, use terrain against them, etc. etc. etc. PC parties use it against opposition; there is no reason the opposition can't use it against them, except that the GM is trying to avoid a TPK.
Oh I understand that completely and I wasn't trying to start an argument about something I agree with. I was just saying I think they could have been taken out. It makes me want to do something similiar but I'd need something a bit tougher than kolbolds.
Depends on what you had in your group for the HP. Again I'm surprised the kolbolds could even hit most of the group save for the wizard, or that they didn't have any potions to help in that situation. *shrugs*
Happy gaming!
One of the things that annoyed me till I got smart as a GM (1st ed) was that a decently high character could wander into a kobold village and slaughter them all without suffering as much as a hangnail.Zilfer, you're completely missing the point -- and getting bogged down in functionally useless speculation/contemplation. The point isn't 'how do you beat a group of Tucker's Kobolds', the point is the illustration of how completely overwhelming good tactics can be. Tucker used a race considered incredibly weak and contemptible to illustrate the point -- that good/clever tactics with what you have on hand can royally kick in the head of an individual (or group of individuals) considered significantly more powerful than you. And here's another point:These are the same tactical concepts used by every group of players since forever.
Hit and run; focus your attacks on a weak point. Trap an enemy, use terrain against them, etc. etc. etc. PC parties use it against opposition; there is no reason the opposition can't use it against them, except that the GM is trying to avoid a TPK.
Oh I understand that completely and I wasn't trying to start an argument about something I agree with. I was just saying I think they could have been taken out. It makes me want to do something similiar but I'd need something a bit tougher than kolbolds.
Depends on what you had in your group for the HP. Again I'm surprised the kolbolds could even hit most of the group save for the wizard, or that they didn't have any potions to help in that situation. *shrugs*
Happy gaming!
The getting smart came by making the kobolds the intelligent little bastidges they are. They're individually weak and helpless and smart enough to know it. They're constant prey for larger humanoids, which is just about all of them, and they have no natural defenses.
Traps. Nets. Ropes. Hot liquids. Fire. Massed shooting. Pot-holed pathways with punji stakes. Never, ever, ever get close enough for hand-to-hand. Great, your thief detects traps. And you stand there, easy fat target, while he disarms. and disarms and disarms and..
You're right. A kobold can't hit you, can't hit most of the group. If it fights your game.
Anyways back to the topic, how much is a good number for the amount of security officers on hand in a firefight.
Anyways back to the topic, how much is a good number for the amount of security officers on hand in a firefight.
Realistically, it depends on the company and the specific facility.
Something high-value and tempting like a weapons testing facility would probably have at least a couple dozen spread around the whole facility at any one time, including gate guards and roaming patrols of multiple meta-humans backed up by drones. Something smaller, like a production line for a toy-factory or a warehouse of consumer goods, would maybe have 3-5 guards total and some extra lightly-armed or un-armed patrol drones.
Either facility would, of course, have way bigger backup off-site waiting to bring the pain as needed.
5-6 to me doesn't seem like a lot, most runner teams could probably take them out quickly....
My group hate-hate-HATES Rotodrones. Detest them. Hates them they do!That's why most runners get their souls removed early on...
Especially when I get a low-powered magician with Watcher spirits galore and a commlink to the drones to tell them where the targets are. You can hide from the sensors, but it's hard to hide YOUR VERY SOULS!!!
My group hate-hate-HATES Rotodrones. Detest them. Hates them they do!That's why most runners get their souls removed early on...
Especially when I get a low-powered magician with Watcher spirits galore and a commlink to the drones to tell them where the targets are. You can hide from the sensors, but it's hard to hide YOUR VERY SOULS!!!
African or european?
Was the headband made in Japan or China? ;DAfrican or european?Japanese with a headband, and a cyber eye actually....
:P