Shadowrun

Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: RelentlessImp on <12-02-11/1258:00>

Title: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-02-11/1258:00>

Alright, so I've got a friend who wants to play Shadowrun, but since my GMing skills are awful, we've never been able to really do it. We've found some like-minded friends, so I get to pull off pixie craziness with a brand-new group.

This friend and I talk about various RPGs all the time, and I think he's a little worried about me being a munchkin, because he asked me to make a focused character that won't outshine any other party member at their own niche. Well, okay, but it's been a while since I actually sat down and made an SR4 character, so I'd like some assistance at making:

A Pixie Magician, custom tradition.
Skills almost entirely focused on magic and little else (backstory supports it).
Some good ability to summon, bind and banish spirits; I've never really played with spirits much, I'd like to take the opportunity to try while I have this chance of everyone else really exploring the system.
We're also using Free Contacts equal to Charisma*2.

Here's what I have so far:

Attributes

Body	Agility	Reaction	Strength
3/3	3/8	7/8	1/3
Charisma	Intuition	Logic	Willpower
3/8	6/7	2/7	7/8
Edge	Magic	Essence	Initiative
1/7	6/6	6.000	13/15

Positive Qualities
Magician
Mentor Spirit (Seductress or Dragonslayer refluffed)
Restricted Gear (Power Focus Power 4)

Negative Qualities
Allergy (Mild, Seawater)
Dependent (Medium)
SINner (Standard) (NeoNET)
Mild Addiction (Psyche)
Compulsive (Mild)

Active Skills

Spellcasting	6
Counterspelling	4
Assensing	1
Summoning	1
Binding	1
Dodge	4
Perception	4

Knowledge Skills ( [Logic + Intuition] x 3 free points)

Spell Design	4
Magic Theory	4
Magic Trids	3
Astral Research	4
Biology	2

Language Skills

Upvehu	N
English	2
Sperethiel	2

Spells

Spells	Cost	Notes
Stunbolt	(F/2)-1
Stunball	(F/2)+1
Acid Stream	(F/2)+3
Toxic Wave	(F/2)+5
Heal	(Damage)-1
Increase Reflexes	(F/2)+2
Trid Phantasm	(F/2)+3
Detect Enemies, Extended	(F/2)+3
Metal Wall	(F/2)+3

Gear (165,000¥)

Form Fitting Body Armor Full Body Suit (Nonconductivity 6)	2800¥
H-Jumpsuit (Holowear)	2500¥
(Subtle, Jumpsuit) PPP Helmet	100¥
(Subtle, Jumpsuit) PPP Shin Guards	150¥
Fake SIN Rating 4	4000¥
Goggles Rating 6 (Total Avail: 12)	300¥
*Image Link	25¥
*Vision Enhancement 3	300¥
*Vision Magnification	100¥
*Thermographic Vision	100¥
Tag Eraser	150¥
Magical Lodge Materials Rating 6	3000¥
4 Doses of Psyche	800¥
Battle Basic Buddy	10000¥
*Novatech Navi OS	1500¥
**Pro User Program Suite	600¥
Power Focus Power 4 (Bound)	100000¥
Health Sustaining Focus Power 3 (Bound)	30000¥

Lifestyle (High, 19LP, 7200¥/month, 1 month)
Lifestyle Type	Level
Comforts	2 (Low)
Entertainment	3 (Middle)
Necessities	2 (Low)
Neighborhood	2 (Low)
Security	3 (Middle)

Qualities: Perfect Roommate (2), Privacy Screen 3 (3), Workplace (1), Free Access (1)

Contacts Contact C/L Fixer 2/3 Talismonger 2/3 Tradition Combat: Guardian Detection: Beast Health: Plant Illusion: Guidance Manipulation: Man Drain: Willpower + Intuition

Total Costs: Attributes 155 + Race 35 + Magic 99 + Active Skills 84 + Positive Qualities 25 + Resources 33 + Contacts 4 - Negative Qualities 35 = 400BP
1375¥ remaining

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: UmaroVI on <12-02-11/1325:25>

Hardcapping body is debatable. You totally want 3 body, but you may want that to be your first 15 karma rather than 25 bp.

Harcapping magic is also debatable, but more reasonable (30 karma vs. 25 bp).

You don't need that much agility; 3 is fine. You do want more Intuition and Reaction, so badly; ideally you should softcap both. The cost of buying stats up with karma  is proportional to how high they are; you really want to get 6 now, even if you have to short some other stuff, because they are so expensive later on.

Are you sure you want only 1 edge?

You don't have a mentor spirit. Get one!

Your skills are, to be blunt, bad. You have too many skills that you suck too hard at to use. You also have Banishing, which is a worthless trap option good only for melting your own face off. The way you banish spirits is simple: Stunbolt.

Don't specialize any skills at chargen - 2 karma > 2 bp, and you are really short on bp for more important stuff.

Get Counterspelling 4 and Spellcasting 6.

Lose Banishing. Lose Exotic Melee: Monofilament whip and the weapon focus; those are for adepts, not for mages. The only thing you can do with it is cut your wings off by accident.

"Nice to have" skills would be Dodge, Infiltration, Perception, Assensing, Binding. These are all things you can live with picking up with karma, but really would like at least 1 in. I would suggest figuring out how many points you can spend on these, then spending that many getting some at 4, and pick the rest up later.

Summoning 1 is sufficient to summon spirits big enough to melt your face off; Summoning 1 + Specialization 2 + Mentor 2 + Focus 4 + Magic 6 is 15, spirits only resist with Force.

Armor is bad. It makes you glow, and also is weaksauce.
Manabolt is bad. Stunbolt people, then put a pillow over their face if you really want them to die.

What kind of magic do you want to specialize in?

You should probably aim to start with 12 spells if you can afford it, but they are reasonable to buy with karma as well. Spells you should have:

Stunbolt, Increase Reflexes (you know these, so should all mages)
Pick one: Stunball, Soundwave (for taking down groups; Stunball is better at high force, Soundwave at low force).

Useful but not vital things:
Combat: single target P-damage elemental spell (for taking out vehicles/drones)
AE P-damage elemental spell (ditto)
Replace the elemental spells with Powerball/bolt only if you are focusing on Combat as your specialty, ie have your mentor and specialization in it.

Illusion: Physical Mask
Trid Phantasm
Improved Invisibility

Manipulations: Levitate (even though you can fly, levitating other people is useful. Still less good for you than for other mages)
Metal Wall (opaque, solid barrier that emo kids can cut themselves on)
Sound Aura (buffs melee people. Only take this if there's a pure melee dude in your group)
Alter Memory
Mob Mind or Control Thoughts
Fix (only useful if you have a rigger AND you are focused on manipulation, because it takes OR. But repairing vehicles is slow and pricy so if both those are true, it's handy).

Detection:
Extended Detect Enemies
Extended Spatial Sense
Analyze Device (don't touch this unless you are focused on Detection, ie have your mentor and specialization here)
Clairaudience
Mana Window
Astral Window

Health:
Heal
Detox
Increase Charisma (you put this on yourself before summoning huge spirits: -2 to summon is worth it for +5 to resist drain, you can also cast this on the face)
Increase [Attribute]: if you have a bunch of people whose noncombat things can be buffed by one stat, might be worth it. Very group dependant.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: UmaroVI on <12-02-11/1328:57>

Further notes:

Wear better armor. You should be using Form Fitting Body Armor like all the cool kids. I actually recommend FFBA+Holowear so that you have at least a halfass "not a pixie" disguise all the time.

Sustaining foci are per school, ie, "Manipulation Sustaining Focus."

You want a force 4 power focus and a force 3 Health focus. You may or may not want more foci. They are a lower priority than stats and skills to start with because you can buy better ones (and what else are you going to do with nuyen)? Also, your Logic caps max foci active at once, so you want 3 good foci, not 5 crap ones. I would dump the other foci, then aim to get a good, high-force Centering focus during gameplay.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-02-11/1350:59>

Quote from: UmaroVI on <12-02-11/1325:25>

Hardcapping body is debatable. You totally want 3 body, but you may want that to be your first 15 karma rather than 25 bp.

Harcapping magic is also debatable, but more reasonable (30 karma vs. 25 bp).

I want to hardcap both of these, really. Having the ability to get up to 6 encumberance with armor is going to be lifesaving, I feel. And Magic 6 just meshes too well with the character's background at this point.

Quote

Are you sure you want only 1 edge?

I have honestly never used Edge. I don't think I even remember what it's for. Back when I played regularly, I tended to play the sort of characters other need to spend Edge to avoid.

Quote

You don't have a mentor spirit. Get one!

Are there rules to create your own mentor spirits? I'm not really too fond of the ones offered in SR core, they don't really mesh with the fluff I have in mind... unless I change the tradition. Maybe move it to Intuition+Willpower rather than have to buy up Charisma...

Quote

"Nice to have" skills would be Dodge, Infiltration, Perception, Assensing, Binding. These are all things you can live with picking up with karma, but really would like at least 1 in. I would suggest figuring out how many points you can spend on these, then spending that many getting some at 4, and pick the rest up later.

How many could I get away with only having 1 in? Is Binding (again, not clear on Spirits, having rarely used them) sufficient at 1? Dodge I should probably get at 4, and Perception, but is 1 Infiltration and Assensing sufficient?

Quote

What kind of magic do you want to specialize in?

The character grew up chasing humans away from the pixie community and helped create a "haunted forest" rumor with his antics. Probably best suited at Illusions, really.

Quote

You should probably aim to start with 12 spells if you can afford it, but they are reasonable to buy with karma as well. Spells you should have:

Don't think I can really afford it. Working through the sheet again... about all I can think is change the Tradition a little fluffwise, make it Willpower+Intuition (which really makes more sense for it) and dump some Charisma.

Quote

Wear better armor. You should be using Form Fitting Body Armor like all the cool kids. I actually recommend FFBA+Holowear so that you have at least a halfass "not a pixie" disguise all the time.

Can you explain this one a little more? I don't remember where to find Holowear.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: UmaroVI on <12-02-11/1722:24>

Like I said, you definitely want Body 3. The question is: do you want to massively overpay to have it right away, rather than in 15 karma?

You can refluff mentor spirits however you want, but there's no rules for designing your own advantages/drawbacks. Cat and Spider are you best choices right now (you can easily make that Composure (3) test), Horned Man is fine if you go Intuition rather than Charisma (better bonuses, but a meaningful drawback). Trickster and Seductress are alright.

Binding is something you want to be as good as possible at, but there's not a minimum threshold of "must have at least this much." Binding 1 is useful. Binding 4 is better. Basically, the more Binding you have, the more cost-efficient it is to use. It is good because spirits are good, and you can have bound spirits help you in a lot of ways that summoned spirits can't, like Aid Sorcery. Even crappy low-force spirits have uses, like having a Spirit of Man know a buff spell and cast it on everyone, then hang out chilling with its huge Sustaining penalty on its home metaplane. Invoking (metamagic) is super ultra win times as well. However, it takes time and money to use Binding. I would either start with 4, or start with 0 and buy it with karma. 6 points will get you rank 1 and a specialization, which is enough to get rolling. You can always invest more karma if you decide you like it; the key is to recognize that with Binding, more Binding = more bang per nuyen, not more bang. The reason is that you really don't want to bind spirits with force higher than your Magic, because they can get lucky and roll enough drain to instagib your 3 body pixie.

Dodge is not as good as you think. Most people overrate it - basically, the problem is that in SR, offense > defense. Dodging by no means prevents you from getting hit, and it eats actions. It also won't protect you from everything, many attacks bypass Dodge. And once you dodge, enemies can just switch targets to someone else. It is not worthless and is the right move sometimes (typically, as a mage, the sometimes is when you KNOW that you are going to go down for sure, and then you just blow through actions Dodging to make your opponents waste more actions dropping you). It also adds to passive melee defense. Here, I would either start with 4 dodge or 0. This is a good thing to compare to buying that last point of Body - you can spend 25 bp buying body 3, or 16 buying Dodge 4. To get the other one with karma costs 15 for that third body point, or 22 karma for Dodge 4 - note how the costs almost reverse! And karma is typically worth about 2 per bp.

Perception: 0 is bad, you have to make Perception checks often and you don't want to default. More is better. I would start with 1 or 4 here.

Infiltration: you don't want to be the worst at Infiltration. Being 2nd best rather than 3rd best is not worth your points. Being best is worth your points. Depends who else is in your group - but here, I would consider starting with 0 and buying a bit with karma, since as a pixie with 6 magic people are at -6 to see you anyways, so you are probably alright just defaulting on Infiltration for a bit.

Assensing: You can't default on this and some problems require you have Assensing. You should have at least 1. More is useful, but not as useful as the first point - you need to be able to consistently get 1 hit on assensing, or you aren't able to do your job. Being able to get more hits can get you useful information. Start with 1 or 4.

Illusions is fine as a specialization. It is very all or nothing, so absolutely be sure to have a Mentor with +2 Illusion. If you can't do illusions well, you can't do them at all. Physical Mask, Improved Invisibility, and Trid Phantasm are all really good spells that every Illusionist should have, but there's a very sharp dropoff in good spells after that. There's a line of AE "gives a penalty, might incapacitate people who get a penalty > Willpower if the GM feels like it" line in Street Magic; I would ask your GM how they plan to run those spells and consider using one of them instead of Stunball/Soundwave. There's a lot of super awful illusions that are only good for giggles like Chaotic World so don't feel like you need to load up on bad spells just because you are an Illusions specialist - stick to the good stuff.

The selling points of Charisma are:
More bound spirits
Can branch into being decent at social skills.

Do you care about those things? If no, dump charisma and be Intuition, because it is cheaper and you are short on points.

FFBA is from Arsenal. It is a no-brainer armor that everyone wears, because it counts as 3/1 for encumbrance but is 6/2, and stacks with other stuff. Get some.
Holowear is from Attitude. It's armor that projects a hologram around you. It's easy to tell that it's a hologram (it's a Threshold 2 perception test) but that doesn't mean people see through it, just that they see it is a hologram. You probably don't want to advertise that you are a pixie all the time, so it can be handy for putting up a hologram that makes you look like someone else. Physical Mask is better, but you have to sustain that.

You should also look into Ruthenium coating some armor for the -4 to see you, giving you a total of -10. Stack that with a Concealment power from a spirit and you are pretty much invisible which is cool.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-03-11/0615:25>

Thanks for the advice. Quick question: if I use the Holowear to project the image of a regular metahuman, I assume it can also project proper movement and I can fly in the center of the hologram rather than giving it away with my 2m/turn walking rate and have it simulate actual walking... but does the holowear still work if I use Concealment on myself in the center of it? That way even if they see past the hologram they don't see anything at all inside...

Right now looking at combining Form-Fitting Full Body (6/2, Nonconduc 6) with the H-Jumpsuit (3/2) for 9/4 and encumbrance of 6/3... can it go higher without Softweave? (The DM is seriously considering banning everything but Battle Rifles from War!... which is a good thing because I don't think I'd be able to resist taking Slow otherwise.)

EDIT: Also, wouldn't Detect Life, Extended be better than Detect Enemies, Extended? Especially on a stealthy op - being able to sense where everyone, including the security unaware of you (and thus won't have hostile intentions... yet...) be a better choice? (F/2)+2 vs (F/2)+3 for a spell that does less, to boot?

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: UmaroVI on <12-03-11/1156:33>

You can't see through a hologram - it's a hologram, not an illusion. Making the perception test means you know that it's a hologram, not that you know what's under the hologram. I think Concealment actually makes you and your hologram less visible.

Wear some pieces of Securetech PPP System to get +0/+3 more armor.

Detect Life is also useful, but for different things. Remember that it just tells you about living things and where they are, but not their intentions - so, for example, if you're bodyguarding someone, it will generally just tell you useless things like "yes, this city street is indeed full of people," whereas Detect Enemies will warn you when there are hostile people. That said, Detect Life is by no means a bad spell and is also a reasonable choice to take.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-03-11/1616:42>

Quote from: UmaroVI on <12-03-11/1156:33>

You can't see through a hologram - it's a hologram, not an illusion. Making the perception test means you know that it's a hologram, not that you know what's under the hologram. I think Concealment actually makes you and your hologram less visible.

Wear some pieces of Securetech PPP System to get +0/+3 more armor.

Detect Life is also useful, but for different things. Remember that it just tells you about living things and where they are, but not their intentions - so, for example, if you're bodyguarding someone, it will generally just tell you useless things like "yes, this city street is indeed full of people," whereas Detect Enemies will warn you when there are hostile people. That said, Detect Life is by no means a bad spell and is also a reasonable choice to take.

I really appreciate the in-depth and thoughtful assistance you've provided. The OP has been updated with the sheet, taking into account most, if not all, of your suggestions. I would have taken Metal Wall, most likely, but I was unable to find it... or is that a valid choice for [Element] Wall?

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: UmaroVI on <12-03-11/1627:25>

Yep. "Metal" is one of the Street Magic elements. The reason to use metal is that it's unambiguously both opaque and solid; I don't think any of the others are. Opacity means it blocks line of sight and is thus hard to shoot through, combine that with solid and it is capable of stopping a lot of people cold. Does have a high drain code, but drain > bullets.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-03-11/1641:57>

Quote from: UmaroVI on <12-03-11/1627:25>

Yep. "Metal" is one of the Street Magic elements. The reason to use metal is that it's unambiguously both opaque and solid; I don't think any of the others are. Opacity means it blocks line of sight and is thus hard to shoot through, combine that with solid and it is capable of stopping a lot of people cold. Does have a high drain code, but drain > bullets.

Huh. Never saw that sidebar before. Can you tell how much I've actually read the non-fluff sections of Street Magic? *snicker*

Metal Wall it is. Thanks again for all the assistance. Now to hope I don't get smacked when I show up with the sheet... might run him past a few PbP GMs and see what happens first.

Also... how do I add to your rep? I'd like to upvote you based on the help you've given me here, but can't seem to find the button to do it...

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: UmaroVI on <12-03-11/2040:37>

There's an [Applaud][Smite] link pair under everyone's reputation score (except your own) when it appears in their posts; click on Applaud.

Glad I could help!

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: Katrex on <12-04-11/0026:46>

If you really want high body, I'd do the Genetic heritage, genetic optimisation body, Put you body up to three, then get a health sustaing focus and cast improved attribute body 3 to put it up to six, Then wear form fitting + full steam punk line and full pppS gear for a lovely 21/19 damage resistance.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-04-11/1119:10>

Quote from: Katrex on <12-04-11/0026:46>

If you really want high body, I'd do the Genetic heritage, genetic optimisation body, Put you body up to three, then get a health sustaing focus and cast improved attribute body 3 to put it up to six, Then wear form fitting + full steam punk line and full pppS gear for a lovely 21/19 damage resistance.

Don't think that works... does it? I thought you couldn't boost a stat past Augmented Maximum, which is Natural Max*1.5, which makes it 4 for a Pixie.

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: Tsuzua on <12-04-11/1136:15>

Quote from: RelentlessImp on <12-04-11/1119:10>

Quote from: Katrex on <12-04-11/0026:46>

If you really want high body, I'd do the Genetic heritage, genetic optimisation body, Put you body up to three, then get a health sustaing focus and cast improved attribute body 3 to put it up to six, Then wear form fitting + full steam punk line and full pppS gear for a lovely 21/19 damage resistance.

Don't think that works... does it? I thought you couldn't boost a stat past Augmented Maximum, which is Natural Max*1.5, which makes it 4 for a Pixie.

That's the reason for the genetic optimization.  It increases your natural maximum.  So for a pixie that increases it to 4.  Then the augmented maximum is now 6.

As for 21/19 armor, I assume that's FFBA halving stuff like PPP and gel packs?

Title: Re: Starting a new character with a new group...
Post by: RelentlessImp on <12-04-11/1142:08>

I'll have to remember that for my next Pixie... this one's just for a game with newbies, don't want to be the one who can't get geeked and forces the GM to start pulling out Full Auto Long Burst HMGs just to get some damage in on me.