Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Fruz on <12-04-11/2057:02>
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Hi everyone
I am getting started with couple of friends on shadowrun 4th, and I'm playing a technomancer.
We've been playing one small scenario already and I'm still adjusting the character, and I have couple of questions about how to do it properly, and about some rules.
I noticed the "rules" section of the forum, but as some questions might be very basic, I though it'd be better to ask everything here.
One important point : I am not ( and neither my game master is ) going to try to have the best character ever and to optimize it like hell.
My technomancer is not only about staying in the car and being in the matrix and drones, I like having a little bit of a "face" to be able to get to a lot of places, and be at least a bit useful in the meat world.
First of all, here is my technomancer, I save you all the background part of it ( as it's our first shadowrun game, we were granted 10%points creations ) :
Race : Elf
Attributes :
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Body : 3
Agility : 3
Rea : 3
Strength : 2
Charisma : 6
Intuition : 4
Logic : 4
Edge : 3
Resonnance : 5
Essence : 5.3
Qualities :
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Technomancer
Toxin resist 1
Negativ qualities :
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Addiction 2
Intimate ennemy 2 ( ARES corporation )
Lust ( 5 points )
Trauma + amnesia ( 5 points )
Exotic birds phobia ( 5 points )
Gear :
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Morrisey Elan + sound suppressor
Fichetti Tiffani needler
Vest : business man vest with max rating, resists : fire1, freeze 1, non conductiv 2, chemicals 1
Cyberware ( part of the background ) :
- arm ( delta ) : agi 5, con 3, strength 4, armor 3
retractable blade, dart, contact taser, storing parts for drugs, etc ...
- toxin extractor 1
Network :
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street doc ( 2 loy 3 net )
bio surgeon ( 3 loy 3 net )
johnson ( 1 loy 3 net )
Skills :
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Blade 1 ( +2 retractable )
Guns 1 ( +2 Hold-Out )
Infiltration 1
Perception 1
dodge 1
Athletics group 1
Influence
Con 1
Etiquette 3
Leadership 1
Negociation 1
Cracking
Cybercombat 1
Electronic warfare 1
Hacking 2
Electronics
Hardware 2
Computer 2
Data search 2
Software 3
Tasking
Compiling 5
Decompiling 1
Registering 3
Complex Forms :
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Spoof 4
Stealth 4
Exploit 4
Armor 4
Browse 3
Edit 3
Attack 3
Decrypt 3
So now here are the questions :
- which complex form to have ? I read that analyze was useful and I don't have it, why is it so good ?
- I read things about boosting a smartgun with a Machine-sprite using a smartlink complex form : how ?
- I took the morissey Elan for a weapon and I like the fact that it's a bit harder to detect, if I add a smartgun in it, can it still be like that ?
- Can I learn complex form and exceed the Logic*2 Maximum with karma ?
- If I get extra resonnance points thanks to submersion, do I have to pay the 6th point as a very expensive one still or like a normal point ?
- Should I try to get to 6 in Resonnance and then have 5 with the tests ?
- I read that choosing between charisma/intuition/logic/willpower for fading tests was possible, is that true ? I didn't find it anywhere in the core book and the unwired book.
- How do sprites exactly work ? If I create a rating 3 sprite with 2 tasks, will he just be able to run 2 different compatible programms with a rating of 3 ? can they use programms I don't know ?
- Is it a good option to buy registered sprites at the character creation ? what does it give since I can maybe register it myself ? extra rating on the sprite ?
- In a realistic scenario ( or almost realistic, we are still in 2072 ;p ), why is a technomancer with some attack and cybercombat capabilities bad ? ( And plz don't compare it to other player choosing hacker, it is not a mmorpg, I want to do role play with friends of mine and only that, and if I can be useful sometimes with crashing an icon, beatting a random hacker created by my gamemaster IG, it's sufficient )
- What do you still think of my character after having read all of this ?
NB : I'm not native english speaker as you may have realised it, plz be tolerant :p
NB2 : I just discovered the book "unwired" couple of hours ago ... man I still have that much to read :(
and Thank you for your help in advance
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First, if you didn't buy Resonance to 6, then the essence loss from your implants is going to put your Resonance to 4. Any changes to your Essence directly affect your Resonance/Magic attribute by the same amount (rounded up). So even a -0.01 essence loss is going to drop your Resonance or Magic by 1 full point.
Second, Resonance should be 6 anyways, as it's going to directly interact with most actions you take in the Matrix. Or at least, that's my opinion; others more familiar with technomancers can probably give you better advice.
Also I believe if you get a Maximum Increase on your Resonance, you still have to buy up to it with Karma as normal.
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Alright, I'll try to be as helpful as I can here, keeping in mind that I have only just now made a single technomancer and I've only played one game using that character. I'll try to answer these questions as best I can.
- which complex form to have ? I read that analyze was useful and I don't have it, why is it so good ?
My Technomancer actually only has a Logic score of 3, so I didn't start with very many complex forms. Whatever I didn't have I just decided I would use Threading to get what I needed on the fly.
To answer the question about Analyze, it is used in Matrix Perception to gain information about an Icon or Node, depending on what sort of test you are using.
- I read things about boosting a smartgun with a Machine-sprite using a smartlink complex form : how ?
This is accomplished using the Diagnostics power of a Machine Sprite, where you have it go into the gun's node and activate the ability. Depending on the roll, it can provide a teamwork bonus to your own roll that cannot exceed your skill rating. So, for example, if you have a Handguns of 3, it can provide an additional 3 dice provided the Sprite rolls enough hits.
- I took the morissey Elan for a weapon and I like the fact that it's a bit harder to detect, if I add a smartgun in it, can it still be like that ?
I don't recall anything that says taking a smartgun system on a gun makes it easier to detect, at least visually. If you're using it wirelessly, it means it does have a wireless node and might be detected that way.
- Can I learn complex form and exceed the Logic*2 Maximum with karma ?
Yes, that limit only applies during character creation.
- If I get extra resonnance points thanks to submersion, do I have to pay the 6th point as a very expensive one still or like a normal point ?
I'm not quite sure what you're asking here, as Submersion does not give you another point of Resonance, it only ups your maximum Resonance by 1. So if you have a Resonance of 6 and you take one Submersion grade, your Resonance remains at 6 but you can now raise it 7 with additional Karma expenditures.
- Should I try to get to 6 in Resonnance and then have 5 with the tests ?
Again, not completely sure what you're asking here. I can say that I didn't take a stitch of cyber or bioware on my Technomancer and bought my Resonance at 6, and it has thusfar paid off.
- I read that choosing between charisma/intuition/logic/willpower for fading tests was possible, is that true ? I didn't find it anywhere in the core book and the unwired book.
The stats you use to resist Fading are determined by your Data Stream, which is covered in Unwired. It's similar to a Magician's discipline. The Data Stream you take determines which stat + Resonance you roll to resist Fading, and also which Sprites you can compile.
- How do sprites exactly work ? If I create a rating 3 sprite with 2 tasks, will he just be able to run 2 different compatible programms with a rating of 3 ? can they use programms I don't know ?
The number of tasks a Sprite is compiled with does not have any baring on how many programs it can run. Like a Technomancer, all of its Complex Forms are considered to be active. The rating of a Sprite determines the rating of the Complex Forms, and also how many optional Forms it can take as explained in each individual Sprite's entry.
- Is it a good option to buy registered sprites at the character creation ? what does it give since I can maybe register it myself ? extra rating on the sprite ?
I started with one registered Machine Sprite because I wanted to have it handy in case we started the campaign with a combat, but by and large, since Sprites don't require any investment other than time to register, it seems to me like it's a better idea to save the build points and not start with one registered. You do not gain any benefits from starting with a registered Sprite other than starting with a registered Sprite. Whether that's a big enough benefit to warrant spending build points is up to you.
- In a realistic scenario ( or almost realistic, we are still in 2072 ;p ), why is a technomancer with some attack and cybercombat capabilities bad ? ( And plz don't compare it to other player choosing hacker, it is not a mmorpg, I want to do role play with friends of mine and only that, and if I can be useful sometimes with crashing an icon, beatting a random hacker created by my gamemaster IG, it's sufficient )
I did not take any Complex Forms that make my Technomancer especially good in cybercombat, as I will be relying on Sprites to do most of the fighting. You could build a fairly effective cybercombat specialist, but something to keep in mind is that while you will only be doing damage to the target's Matrix Condition Monitor (in most cases), they will ALWAYS be doing physical damage to you because a Technomancer must run in hot-sim.
As for real-world skills, it's very difficult to build a Technomancer who is exceptionally effective in meat-space combat. You can make one who is competent, but it's best to pick one type of weapon (for example, my Technomancer is a sniper) and stick with that. Without buying Echoes, you will only be getting one initiative pass unless you sacrifice Resonance to take cyberware, which doesn't seem like a good tradeoff to me.
- What do you still think of my character after having read all of this ?
I think the character is far too generalized, honestly. Having so many skills at rank 1 is not doing you very much good... probably best to pick one or two things you want your character to do outside of the Matrix and focus on those. With a Charisma of 6, I'd recommend focusing on face skills, but if that isn't your bag, maybe being stealthy is a good choice? Up to you how to focus, but I would definitely not try and be generalized to the point of losing effectiveness.
Hope that helps!
BlackSheep
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You're asking too much of a technomancer its one thing to cyber him and ask him to be decent in combat its another to ask for that and make him facey.
Drop the arm drop the combat, make him a good technomancer, with resonance 6 and rating 6 complex forms, Or drop the compiling and regestring and charisma and make him decent in combat and decent in technomancy,
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First of all, thanks for your answer, that helps ^^.
I have still ofc questions, from your answers :
Where does analyze arrives within the different steps of exploring the matrix ? At the moment, most tests I have been doing ( during only one scenario so ) where :
1) Oh I can see the node of the camera I want to spoof
2) stealth
3) exploit
4) spoof
and replace 1) buy I connect on the matrix and look for the informations I want for other exemples, or replace 4) by edit.
So where should I have been using analyze there ?
What are the different steps with that smart-gun system ?
Does it work like that ? :
1) get a machine-sprite in the biologic node
2) use the CF smartlink
3) Ask the sprite to use the command CF into the gun from through the smartlink
Which command exactly do I have to give ? What roll does it make ? ith my 1(+2) can I get up to an additionnal +3 ? which skills does it need ?
Can a sprite I compile use a CF I don't know ?
To learn a CF with 2 points of karma ( for smartlink at least ;p ), do I need to find another technomancer or a spirte I didn't compile myself ?
Is 4 resonnance ( so after deducing the 1 point because of 5.3 essence obviously ) enough or should I get 6 ??
Why do you think it's too generalyzed ? It's my first character and I'm quite noob at it, but below 2 with strength / body my gamemaster is not really fine with it, I will use toxin and that's why I have 3 in body, 3 agility is one point for the gun and the dodge ( my gamemaster wants me to have dodge as well ), and he told me that 2 rea was really bad and I should get 3 as well. So that's the part for the physical attributes.
- Athletics skill group is for normal purpose like I'm a normal adult beingg and should obviously be able to swimm if needed in the scenario, or to run, to climb a bit, etc ...
- Influence is because I like to have a little bit of the "face" type ( with the high charisma it should not be that bad ), and having 0 in that group is not possible with my game master either, my character can talk to people, and that means he has the basics of negociations and so like every normal person. He is a normal being before being a technomancer.
Are those the things that make you said it's generalized ? or do you think that having skills like hardware at 1 is useless and that I should better get points with dropping it ? ( I though I should get at least the group just in case I would need it ).
EDIT for the previous post :
As written in the first post, the arm and the toxin extractor is part of the background and I don't think I'm gonna re-create it since I made already one scenario, it's still possible though eventually.
and How dropping compiling would it make him better in technomancy ? ? ? Oo
And don't forget I have 40 more starting points, that should make it easyer to do what I'm looking for.
The "face" part takes charisma ( 30 points, which is usefull with biofeedback filter and if I choose the good stream, the fading ), plus one group influence and 4 or 8 more points in etiquette, is it that much ?
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First, I want to direct you to Umaro’s Archetypes TMs (the Info Savant and Cyber Shaman), they are both good examples of how to build a TM. Look at the Cyber Shaman for a charisma-based Elf TM (who can also face).
Where does analyze arrives within the different steps of exploring the matrix ? At the moment, most tests I have been doing ( during only one scenario so ) where :
1) Oh I can see the node of the camera I want to spoof
2) stealth
3) exploit
4) spoof
and replace 1) buy I connect on the matrix and look for the informations I want for other exemples, or replace 4) by edit.
So where should I have been using analyze there ?
Analyze is used for matrix perception tests (MPT) (SRA 228). I’m not sure exactly what you are asking, Analyze is used to find out if nodes are encrypted, databombed, etc as well as their access ID. If you can see the camera, you can use “detect hidden node” if it is in hidden mode to see it so you can MPT, otherwise you can MPT right away. So see camera, Detect Hidden Node (maybe) then MPT then spoof/hack/edit (edit usually follows the hack) as you want.
If you can see it, that’s just allowing you to Detect Hidden Node. Both ways you are connecting via the matrix (unless you mean from outside mutual signal range). Note the camera is probably slaved so you want to MPT, find the Masters Access ID, then spoof using that.
What are the different steps with that smart-gun system ?
Does it work like that ? :
1) get a machine-sprite in the biologic node
2) use the CF smartlink
3) Ask the sprite to use the command CF into the gun from through the smartlink
Which command exactly do I have to give ? What roll does it make ? ith my 1(+2) can I get up to an additionnal +3 ? which skills does it need ?
Smartgun system works like this -> Image Link + Smart Link + Smartgun = +2 bonus.
If you mean Diagnostics then -> Sprite has account on node, Sprite uses Diagnostics Power = Teamwork bonus
Can a sprite I compile use a CF I don't know ?
Yes
To learn a CF with 2 points of karma ( for smartlink at least ;p ), do I need to find another technomancer or a spirte I didn't compile myself ?
Learning Complex Forms (SR4A 240). Also, smartlink is a bad CF to learn, just wear contact lenses with smartlink in them. Or you can just thread it when you want it.
Is 4 resonnance ( so after deducing the 1 point because of 5.3 essence obviously ) enough or should I get 6 ??
Resonance is your “Win at Matrix” stat. It adds to Fade Resistance, governs how high your CF ratings can be, and how big a sprite you can summon. You want 6 to be the best TM you can be. Resonance is an exception to not hard-capping. It will cost you more to buy up the CFs later than to hard cap now.
Why do you think it's too generalyzed ?
I think it’s too generalized because you aren’t focusing on being the best TM you can be, you have too many extraneous things. You want 1 STR, 3 Body, and use an automatic weapon on wide burst mode in meat combat. Actually use a Drone in meat combat but the automatic weapon when you can’t.
Reaction 1, Athletics 0, Influence 1 or 4, Electronics Group at 4. I’d softcap charisma at 7.
The problem is, is that being a TM takes all of your points, so you are adding in background stuff that will degrade your effectiveness. I understand back story comes first, just understand you are paying for it with your effectiveness.
I will be happy to answer any other questions, just remember I’m answering from an optimization perspective so if you don’t care about being the most optimized you can be, go ahead and disregard my comments.
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thanks for answering that much =))
I checked Umaro's archetype, and I have one question ? why putting so few in logic and intuition ? isn't it that useful ????
what do you mean by "MPT" ?
And my gamemaster and I may be skipping steps are we're new with the concept of hacking/technomancy and more generally shadowrun. I'll take analyze.
how does the teamwork bonus for smartgun works ? how many bonus points ? :p
So I have a sprite that can use diagnostic registered in my biological node, and whenever I want, I use a smartlink and connect the sprite to the smartgun, right ? the higher the sprite's rating, the higher the bonus ?
Why is smartlink a bad CF to learn ? I like the concept of having that as a complex form as a technomancer, and threading it gives me -2 dices to all tests right ? with already so few in initiative and reaction, it is realy wise ?
I'll try to raise my resonnance to 6(5)
Why is the skill group electronics that important ? I though that technomancer had not much use of hardware / computer.
Being a technomancer takes all the points, but I have 40 extra points, don't you think I should be able to get something quite good with it ? =p
What do you think of that version ? :
Body : 3
Agi : 2
Rea : 2
Str : 1
Char : 6
Int : 4
Log : 4
Will : 3
Edge : 2
Resonnance : 6(5)
Qualities : Technomancer / Paragon / Resist toxin 1
Neg Qualities : Int ennemy 2 / Addiction 2 / Lust / amnesia / exotic birds phobia
Skills :
Guns 1 ( +2 hold out )
Blade 1 ( +2 retractable )
Infiltration 1
Perception 1
Dodge 1 ( +2 projectiles )
Athletics group 1
Influence group 1
Etiquette 2
Electronics group 2
Software 4
Crackin group 1
Hacking 5
Tasking :
Compiling 5
Decompiling 1
Registering 3
EDIT : forgot the CFs :
Analyze ooooo
Armor ooooo
Stealth ooooo
spoof ooooo
Browse (Data search) ooooo
Edit (Hacking) ooooo
Exploit (Hacking) ooooo
smartlink o
And 2 more question I still have at the moment :
- In which situation should I use sprites over CFs and the other way around ?
- I'll probably be using combat drugs in meat world ( background, addiction to toxin + toxin extractor ), so how does the bad effect part works ? can I resist the some of the Xstun dmgs from Betameth/Cram/Jazz drug ?
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I'd have to agree with dropping those implants. I say the same thing when it comes to Awakened. Background is good, but taking implants because of backstory when it's going to fubar your effectiveness just seems silly to me. Athletics skill group means that you've put some focus into getting some serious training in those skills. You can still swim, run and climb without the skills (as long as you aren't incompetent--negative quality--with them). You've already said you want to be something of a Face, so that Influence skill group is good for you.
Do you plan on breaking into maglocks or other things manually? If not, drop the hardware skill. You don't need it, and it's taking up points, and choose one method of combat. You're getting only 3 dice from skill in those combat skills, so why not just drop one of them (both specialties since you aren't mainly a combat character) and put two more points into the other skill--pistols seems good.
Remember, having a backstory and everything fleshed out is good, but if you aren't very good at what the character is supposed to be doing, you probably won't be doing very well in the shadows, and there's a good chance you'll die before you can really do any playing around with that backstory. I say optimize as much as you can mechanically, and worry about the other part once you're in-game.
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what do you mean by "MPT" ?
That would be the (M)atrix (P)erception (T)est, mentioned earlier in the same post. ;)
Remember, having a backstory and everything fleshed out is good, but if you aren't very good at what the character is supposed to be doing, you probably won't be doing very well in the shadows, and there's a good chance you'll die before you can really do any playing around with that backstory. I say optimize as much as you can mechanically, and worry about the other part once you're in-game.
In other words; Mini-Max like hell, and then make a fitting background to explain why the character is like that.
I actually find it more interesting to have to make up stories that are good at explaining the weird little tricks that optimize the mechanics. Not just hand-waves, but actual, compelling back-story.
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I checked Umaro's archetype, and I have one question ? why putting so few in logic and intuition ? isn't it that useful ????
There isn't very much you will end up using your System for as a Technomancer, I found, which is what Logic is tied to. Also, even as a regular hacker, you don't need Logic to be good at hacking as your stat does not figure into any matrix tests.
how does the teamwork bonus for smartgun works ? how many bonus points ? :p
So I have a sprite that can use diagnostic registered in my biological node, and whenever I want, I use a smartlink and connect the sprite to the smartgun, right ? the higher the sprite's rating, the higher the bonus ?
I don't mean to sound rude here, but the Diagnostics power is incredibly simple, and the explanation given for it under the Sprite abilities is pretty clear. It's on page 242 of the Shadowrun 4th Ed 20th Anniversary edition, about halfway down on the second column. It pretty explicitly explains how it works.
Why is smartlink a bad CF to learn ? I like the concept of having that as a complex form as a technomancer, and threading it gives me -2 dices to all tests right ? with already so few in initiative and reaction, it is realy wise ?
This is kind of a two-part answer here, but to address the first part, you can just buy a contact lens with smart link and an image link and a gun with smartgun system, which is all you need to gain the benefits of Smartlink. If you take it as a Complex Form, the only thing it does for you is remove the need for the contact lens. Since the contact lens with smart link and image link only costs (I believe) around 200 nuyen, you're way better off spending the money than the 1 build point, which is worth 5000 nuyen.
Second, Threading a Complex Form only gives you the -2 dice to all tests not involving that Complex Form. If you Threaded smart link, you would not receive a -2 penalty on firing the gun, but you would take the -2 on everything else as long as you sustain it. This applies no matter which CF you are Threading.
Why is the skill group electronics that important ? I though that technomancer had not much use of hardware / computer.
As All4BigGuns said, Hardware is useful for interfacing with non-wireless electronic devices like maglocks. Computer is used in conjunction with a lot of programs for Matrix tests, such as Data Search when looking for information. Basically, if you are using a Complex Form that isn't imitating a program out of the Hacking group, odds are it will be Computer + Complex Form instead of Hacking + Complex Form to make the check.
Being a technomancer takes all the points, but I have 40 extra points, don't you think I should be able to get something quite good with it ? =p
What do you think of that version ? :
Yes. But you should pick one or two good things you want to take instead of grabbing a bunch of skills at rank 1 that aren't going to do you any good.
In which situation should I use sprites over CFs and the other way around ?
Well, Sprites and Complex Forms aren't really comparable. It's kind of analogous to asking when it's better to use a Spell or summon a Spirit. A Complex Form does one specific thing that you must direct. A Sprite is usually good at a couple of things, plus they all have powers that give them an edge in doing something that you cannot do alone (like Diagnostics for the Machine Sprite). Complex Forms define what you can do, whereas Sprites give you access to other options outside of that.
Plus, if they're Registered, they are capable of doing work for you elsewhere in the Matrix. Technically, my bound Crack Sprite is a far better hacker than my Technomancer actually is, so when trying to get into a node, I have the two work together for a greater chance of success.
Basically, as you play, you just need to get a feel for when you want to have a Sprite do the job and when you need to do it yourself or help the Sprite do it.
I'll probably be using combat drugs in meat world ( background, addiction to toxin + toxin extractor ), so how does the bad effect part works ? can I resist the some of the Xstun dmgs from Betameth/Cram/Jazz drug ?
This is another one of those things where it's entirely based on the individual drug. The drug will explain what the side effects are in its description, and as I recall, you generally cannot resist the damage they do. It will tell you in the description (usually it will say "you suffer 5S (unresisted)" to denote when you can't actually resist the damage.
BlackSheep
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I checked Umaro's archetype, and I have one question ? why putting so few in logic and intuition ? isn't it that useful ????
Intuition is important for the Info Savant (who is an intutition based TM), and not important for the Cyber Shaman (charisma based TM). Basically intuition only helps you act first on the matrix (response and matrix initative). A cyber shaman can’t spare the points to be better than IC or Spiders (who can have response 5+ and response enhancers), so he might as well have intuition 1 and spend edge to act first when he needs to.
Logic = number of CFs x2 you can know at the start. You want to know 6 CFs (Analyze, Disarm, Exploit, Spoof, Stealth, Command), so you want logic 3. Other than that Logic doesn’t help you very much.
what do you mean by "MPT" ?
MPT = Matrix Perception Test
Also, no one can run the matrix as written, so however you and your GM decide to run it is good for you, I am making comments based on my interpretation of the Matrix rules, but every group has their own interpretation.
how does the teamwork bonus for smartgun works ? how many bonus points ? :p
There is no teamwork bonus for smartgun. Smartgun System (SR4A 322) gives a +2 bonus (not a teamwork bonus) if you have a smartgun system on the gun and a smartlink vision enhancement (SR4A 333) (generally on contact lenses or glasses).
So I have a sprite that can use diagnostic registered in my biological node, and whenever I want, I use a smartlink and connect the sprite to the smartgun, right ? the higher the sprite's rating, the higher the bonus ?
Diagnostics is explained on SR4A 242. It is fairly well explained, basically you have the sprite on the node (so it has an account), then you tell it to use Diagnostics, and it rolls rating x2 as a teamwork test to using that node. Note, you cannot use Diagnostics on your bionode because the bionode is not an electronic device. You can have a sprite use diagnostics on the gun though for teamwork bonus.
Why is smartlink a bad CF to learn ? I like the concept of having that as a complex form as a technomancer, and threading it gives me -2 dices to all tests right ? with already so few in initiative and reaction, it is realy wise ?
It’s a bad CF to learn because you can just have smartlink on your glasses and not pay BP for it. Also, threading gives you -2 to all tests not using the threaded form. So if you thread smartlink, then shoot someone with the smartlinked gun, you don’t get a -2 because you are using smartlink.
Why is the skill group electronics that important ? I though that technomancer had not much use of hardware / computer.
Hardware = Maglocks (you only throw 7 dice, but you can assist others). Computer = computer + edit tests (also weird one off tests). Browse = Data Search (which is very important). Softwave = threading (so you need it). Basically all 4 skills have uses, so if you can scrounge up the points it is cheaper to buy it as a group.
Being a technomancer takes all the points, but I have 40 extra points, don't you think I should be able to get something quite good with it ? =p
I don’t know what you mean by “quite good”. If you mean better than a 400 BP TM, then only if you make optimized choices. Basically you can spend 40 points on suboptimal things and still end up as optimized as a 400 pt optimized character. Again, you can make all the suboptimal choices you want, I’m just commenting on how to get the biggest dice pools for common tasks.
React 1, charisma 7, logic 3, intuition 1, edge 5 = -10 BP
What paragon?
Guns isn’t a skill, you want automatics (or pistols, but automatics is more versatile)
Blades is bad (I’m assuming you have this for story reasons).
Dodge is bad (again story reasons)
Athletics is bad (story reasons)
You can’t break a skill group during character creation (so you have to have etiquette 1, software 2 and hacking 1).
Tasking is bad because decompiling sucks. Also you can’t split the group at char creation.
If I were to redo it, sell back guns, blades, dodge, athletics (-18 BP), and assuming you paid 4 BP for each point above the group limit; you save 52 BP. Now we’ve saved 80 BP. Spending it again:
Sell back Cracking 1 (-10), buy Hacking 6 (+24 BP), Buy Electronics Group up to 4 (+20). Sell back Tasking 1 (-10), buy Compiling 4 and Registering 4 (+32) left with 24 points.
Buy +2 Influence (up to 3), and we need to scare up 6 more points for influence 4. Alternatively buy Electronic Warfare 1. Also you can sell back Influence 3 and Hardcap charisma (buying biowires in game and using those).
Sprites: If you don’t care about being caught and just want the data: slam a high rating Crack sprite at it. Sleuth Sprites are good at finding hidden nodes (better than the char I just outlined). Sprites are better at cybercombat. Other than that (I may have forgotten some), sprites are used for powers (Diagnostics, Traceroute, Probability Distribution, Proficiency etc.
For Drugs, read the entry. Betameth specifically says “unresisted” (Arsenal 74), Cram specifically says “unresisted” (SR4A 257). Jazz doesn’t do damage (SR4A 257). Drugs are straightforward, just read the entries.
Edit: Ninja’d for MPT.
Edit: Ninja’d Again! Why am I so slow!
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Remember, having a backstory and everything fleshed out is good, but if you aren't very good at what the character is supposed to be doing, you probably won't be doing very well in the shadows, and there's a good chance you'll die before you can really do any playing around with that backstory. I say optimize as much as you can mechanically, and worry about the other part once you're in-game.
In other words; Mini-Max like hell, and then make a fitting background to explain why the character is like that.
I actually find it more interesting to have to make up stories that are good at explaining the weird little tricks that optimize the mechanics. Not just hand-waves, but actual, compelling back-story.
There has to be at least some level of min-maxing in any point-based system. That being said, my Technomancer has 4 ranks in Artisan specialized in Singing because... well, yeah. Backstory. Could I have used those points better? Oh hells yes. However, gotta get those little pieces of story in.
I think what he means is that people who are not specialized or good at a specific thing would not realistically become Shadowrunners. You don't take the guy along who dabbles a little in Rigging his household drones as well as having a little bit of time on the pistol range with his dad when he was younger in between learning to cook Italian along with you on a mission where his skill level will mean the difference between life and death, you take the guy who has spent years Rigging combat drones and knows how to hit a target in a fight.
To me, he's saying you build the character to be good at his/her role before you spend the points on fleshing out the background, because ultimately, being a Shadowrunner in the first place basically requires he be good at his role. Otherwise, he probably wouldn't be one.
... Though, now that I think about it, having a Rigger who knows how to cook a good veal marsala might be worth the trade-off...
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I misunderstood the purpose of a sprite, now I see much better what it's like !
That is why I didn't really know what diagnostic was about.
so basically, I need a registered machine sprite ( let's say of rating 3, should not be that hard to register within a week ), then I thread a smartlink or take some contacts/gogos, and roll 6 dices. All success from those dices will be like added to my pistol's skill in addition to the basic +2, right ?
So by having 2 succes out of those 6 dices, I could get 1+4(+2) = 7 dices + agility ( 5 from the arm ) = 12 dices for the pistol. Thats sounds pretty good !!
I'll do that then ;) thanks for the informations.
For the wearing contacts'/gogos or using non-wireless electronic devices, I remember reading somewhere that some technomancer would almost never use such things because they would find it too old, too primitive, and that was what I was thinking for my character, but maybe I'm wrong on that and I will consider taking the whole electronics group. We have already a member of our group that has some hacking skills ( even though he is not an awesome hacker ), so I thouhg eventually he could do that, I will think about it.
If not having the athletics group means that you can still do it, but has no further training in it, I'm fine with that and will most probably drop it.
There is another question ( I know, it's quite a lot =pp ) that came to my mind reading some of your answer, and then checking the book. It is written :
"Each time you make a test to hack in, however, the target
node also gets to make a free Analyze + Firewall (Stealth)
Extended Test"
Basicallay, during the first run, we were making as entering the matrix, a resonnance + Stealth test ( as there is no skill that is written in brackets after stealth in the programs list ), were we wrong ? Because reading that little part of the book, it would appear that there is no test to do by me with stealth, and the hacked node just check it with a test ?? can't I thread it then ? I'm a bit lost.
I'll make another version later today as I have no time right now, I think I'm gonna drop athletics and adjust a few things.
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There is another question ( I know, it's quite a lot =pp ) that came to my mind reading some of your answer, and then checking the book. It is written :
"Each time you make a test to hack in, however, the target
node also gets to make a free Analyze + Firewall (Stealth)
Extended Test"
Basicallay, during the first run, we were making as entering the matrix, a resonnance + Stealth test ( as there is no skill that is written in brackets after stealth in the programs list ), were we wrong ? Because reading that little part of the book, it would appear that there is no test to do by me with stealth, and the hacked node just check it with a test ?? can't I thread it then ? I'm a bit lost.
What this means is that the node you are trying to hack in (using your Hacking + Exploit test) can do a Analyze + Firewall test to discover you trying to hack in; your Stealth CF is the number of hits the node need to get to discover you. So, yes, you don't use Stealth in your test (there's just one case I guess, when you're making a hidden account in someplace), but you will like it to be quite high, and it's worth threading it.
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so basically, I need a registered machine sprite ( let's say of rating 3, should not be that hard to register within a week ), then I thread a smartlink or take some contacts/gogos, and roll 6 dices. All success from those dices will be like added to my pistol's skill in addition to the basic +2, right ?
So by having 2 succes out of those 6 dices, I could get 1+4(+2) = 7 dices + agility ( 5 from the arm ) = 12 dices for the pistol. Thats sounds pretty good !!
One thing you need to keep in mind is that the bonus Diagnostics gives you can't be higher than your actual skill, so if you have a Handguns skill of 2, then it can give you additional 2 dice. Any hits it gets beyond those 2 dice are essentially gone.
There is another question ( I know, it's quite a lot =pp ) that came to my mind reading some of your answer, and then checking the book. It is written :
"Each time you make a test to hack in, however, the target
node also gets to make a free Analyze + Firewall (Stealth)
Extended Test"
Basicallay, during the first run, we were making as entering the matrix, a resonnance + Stealth test ( as there is no skill that is written in brackets after stealth in the programs list ), were we wrong ? Because reading that little part of the book, it would appear that there is no test to do by me with stealth, and the hacked node just check it with a test ?? can't I thread it then ? I'm a bit lost.
You are correct that you do not roll Stealth in that situation... it provides the Threshold the system needs to hit in order to detect your presence. So, if you have a Stealth of 5, it needs to roll a total of 5 hits in order to be able to see you. Now, when hacking on the fly, I believe that becomes an extended test, so every time you take an action, it rolls again and adds those hits to its previous total, needing 5 total hits to see you. Thus why hacking on the fly is less favorable than probing the target, where the system only gets one roll, but necessary in many situations when you need to get in and out quickly.
To answer the second part of that, yes, you can absolutely Thread Stealth, which would raise the number of hits the defending system needs to spot you. Just keep in mind that unless you have something else sustaining it (such as a registered Sprite), you'll take the -2 penalty on all checks you make while your Stealth is Threaded, just like any other CF.
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Black Sheep ninja'd my response again, and again stole my words. So I'll just post half of my answer, then work on the matrix example for you (which will take some time).
A Machine sprite does not need to be registered to use Diagnostics. Otherwise, yes you are correct. Also I am assuming your GM is letting you have the Delaware arm? Normally you can’t start with > Alpha.
I’d rather play a TM who doesn’t have to devote BP to duplicating things he can just buy, that’s a RP decision you should make though.
You can default on some skills you do not have. Check the defaulting rules and skills chapter to see which skills you can default on.
You were wrong. Stealth is the threshold, not a skill you roll opposed while hacking-on-the-fly. Once you are on a node, you roll Hacking + Stealth to oppose other people’s MPT. There is no matrix action that uses Stealth.
EXAMPLE LATER
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You were wrong. Stealth is the threshold, not a skill you roll opposed while hacking-on-the-fly. Once you are on a node, you roll Hacking + Stealth to oppose other people’s MPT. There is no matrix action that uses Stealth.
Just for the sake of precission: There is a Matrix Action that uses Stealth, but it's one of these things that is rarelly used, and that someone who is still learning the ropes of the system shouldn't worry about. But as I already started talking about it, to create a hidden acount in a node, you use it. First you follow the procedure to create a regular account, and then you roll a Hacking + Stealth (Firewall, 10 minutes) Extended Test. It's the only action I know that uses Stealth in a test (it's described on Unwired, pg. 97).
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By Matrix Action, I meant "Matrix Action for the purposes of game mechanics, such as the bonus for using hot sim” as defined on SR4A 228. My bad for not defining my term better.
You are correct about the back doors.
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Black Sheep ninja'd my response again, and again stole my words. So I'll just post half of my answer, then work on the matrix example for you (which will take some time).
Sorry. :P
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I think I will read again the "going into the matrix" part of the book, I need to know it better. And for being well stealthed, I think I'll try to have a registered sprite sprite with stealth and an assist task with me.
So I will register a lot of sprites between runs I guess, a machine one for the smartgun, a stealth one, a difuse one, a paladin one ( I'm thinking about taking the stream Technoshaman, but I'm still wondering what the 5 sprites choice implies, and then I'll choose a paragon too ;p ).
For the Delta arm, it's part of the background and I made it with me GM ( I think he's the one who proposed that to me ).
If the bonus given by the diagnostic is limited by the skill, does a specialisation counts there ?
I mean, I have 1 pistol skill and +2 for hold out pistols.
If I have a smartgun with a diagnostic sprite in it, can I get a maximum of
- 1+2(spec)+2(smartgun)+3(diagnostic) = 8
or
- 1+2(spec)+2(smartgun)+1(diagnostic) = 6
Because if it's the second case, I'll get 3 or 4 points (+2) in it.
I have a new version ! :
Attributes
Body : 3
Agi : 2
Rea : 3
Strength : 1
Char : 6
Int : 3
Log : 4
Will : 3
Edge : 2
Resonnance : 6(5)
Initiative : 6
Qualities
- positives
Technomancer
Paragon ( have to choose still )
- negatives
Intimate ennemy 2
Addiction 2
Lust
Amnesia
Exotic birds phobia
Skills
Blade 1 ( spec retractable +2 )
pistols 2 ( spec hold out +2 )
infiltration 1
dodge 1
Perception 1
Tasking :
Compiling 5
Decompiling 1
Registering 4
Electronics :
Hardware 3
Computer 3
Data search 3
Software 4
Cracking :
Cybercombat 1
Electronic warfare 1
Hacking 5
( Btw, there, is spending 6 points to have 1 point un Cybercombat and electronic warfare useful or should I just drop both ? )
Influence :
Leadership 1
Etiquette 2
Negociation 1
theOtherOneIForgot 1
Complex Forms
Analyze 5
Armor 5
Stealth 5
Spoof 5
Edit 5
Exploit 5
Command 5
Browse 5 ( I see that allmost noone has this complex form, but it is useful for data searching isn't ? )
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Specializations are not skill rating and do not count for the teamwork cap.
EW 1 is useful, cybercombat is not. At this point I’m assuming your GM ok’d you splitting skill groups during character creation.
Data Search is useful, Browse is not (esp if there is another hacker). You can thread Browse when you want it, and a hacker can just use Browse 6 + Data Search 4, or you can summon a sprite with Browse and Data Search.
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I'll raise a bit more my pistol skill then, to have at least 3 or even 4 in it.
My GM is ok with splitting groups.
why is browse not useful ? I don't need a lot of dices for researchs ? ( another guy has hackers skills, but is not a full hacker ).
Because if I thread browse, I could get (5+4) browse + 3 data search = 12 dices with only 3 data search ( I could maybe consider raising it to 4 ), which is anyway better than just logic + data search.
I don't really understand.
If I thread browse from nothing, I'll never get such a rating, neither with a prite I guess, am I wrong ?
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Remember you can use Tactical AR Software to gain a +4 bonus on shooting people, so between Agil 2, Smartgun 2, and tacnet 4 you default to 7 dice on automatics. Then use a wide burst for -5 to dodge and you have a reasonable chance of hitting people with 0 BP invested.
For Data Search you need 24 hits at most, in an extended test. If your other character has hacker skills (i.e. Data Search) he can buy Browse 6 for ~600Y, rather than you paying 6BP. Hackers don’t use Logic + Data Search, they use Browse + Data Search.
If you compile a rating 6 Data Sprite, that’s 6 Data Search + 6 Browse right there. You roll 10 dice to compile a sprite, and it rolls 6 to resist so on average you get one task (find this data is a good one). Because you don’t usually Data Search in combat, you can have someone Heal/First Aid the Fade Away (it’s only 4P Fade on average, the same as if you were threading by 4).
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I'm discovering the tacnet part of unwired ^^.
Most likely, it will maybe give me +1 in most of the cases in our scenario, eventually +2 and I wouldn't rely on it, and it gives a lot of constraint that I have to ask them, I don't think I'm gonna do that.
With a smartgun and glasses, I juste need to buy a few more Nuyen objects ( the smartgun system and the glasses ), I will compile and register a machine sprite and keep it for that purpose, if I loose my glasses I can still thread the smartlink ( there is no sprite that has such a complex form, is there ? )
How do you get -5 to dodge since a wide-burst removes 2 dices from the defender's dice pool ?
Do you mean that we should rely on my mate completely for data searchs since it is not really neede during combat ?
What about informations looked for during hacking on the fly while he is driving ? ^^" As those situations will be less often, use a sprite, right ?
If I want 8 CFs then, what should I take to replace it ? ( I don't remember exactly why I chose logic = 4, but I remember that it was not only because of the CFs, so I would still have one CF I have not choosen yet ).
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If you choose to not use tacnet, that’s your decision. If the problem is number of participants get drones (depending on how your GM runs sensor channels).
There is no sprite with smart link CF, even if it had it, you still can’t use sprites CFs.
I was thinking a Long burst. Get an Ares Executive Protector, slap on some Gas-vents, personalized grip, forgrip and sling, and that’s 6 RC. Shoot Long-Short with both shots wide.
I’m saying it’s cool if your mate is also good at Data Search because it doesn’t cost many points, you can have a Data Sprite Browse too. Finally you can always thread if you need to. It’s not that Browse is bad, it’s just that there are better CFs.
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It's true that asking him to buy a browse 6 soft is probably better, I4ll do that.
But then which one to choose ?
I would have already : Analyze, Armor, Stealth, Spoof, Edit, Exploit, Command.
There is still one I can choose.
I read somewhere that using disarm with a sprite was better just in case it would fail, and then the sprite would take the damages.
Medics does not seem that useful to me, or not even to buy the CFs since I can still thread it, or even use a sprite.
I would maybe choose Attack I guess.
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You are thinking of Defuse. Disarm is quite good
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Okay I get it, that has to be in unwired I guess
I give it a look, to be honest I forgot there were new ones there.
EDIT : disarm seems pretty good indeed, whatwould be the most common programm to use it against ? spiders ? what else ?
What about nuke ? what uses does it have ? I'm bit confused as it targets a node and not a program.
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What about nuke ? what uses does it have ? I'm bit confused as it targets a node and not a program.
Instead of doing actual Matrix Damage, DV from Nuke drains the Response or System/Pilot (as appropriate) of the node hosting the target until it can be rebooted. Works on everything but Technomancers.
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Thanks !
nuke looks pretty much awesome, so basically I can descrease the response/System of pretty much anything but technomancers in the Matrix so that it becomes inefficient enough not to bother me anymore or to completely freeze it ?
Once you spend 2 karma to specialize your Registering skill in Machine Sprites, during downtime you can register sprites by spending 6 hours to gain a service with a Rating 5 Machine Sprite or register a new one (assuming buying hits at 4:1; the sixth hour is to heal from the box of Stun taken)
There is something I don't get here.
Registering a rating 5 sprite is really hard isn't it ? With what I understand from the core book, I need at least 11 success to have only one task, and that only with technomancy+registering+2(perma hot-sim)+2(spec) = 14 dices ?? ( with the technoshaman )
It sounds like almost impossible to me, or does it happen against not more than 10 but more than the success coming from a 10 dices roll ?
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The Sprite rolls Rating x2 dice, you roll Registering + Resonance (hot sim doesn't help). Net hits are tasks owed.
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That changes everything ! Until now I though registrating was super very hard to do and had to be tried several times during 2 runs to have a successful result =PP.
I'm gonna register 6 sprites as soon as possible ^^.
Why does not hot sim help since I can do it while being in hot-sim ? I thouhg it gives +2 to all tests in the matrix
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Thanks !
nuke looks pretty much awesome, so basically I can descrease the response/System of pretty much anything but technomancers in the Matrix so that it becomes inefficient enough not to bother me anymore or to completely freeze it ?
Yeah, basically. If you reduce both Response and System to zilch, the machine freezes up and basically BSODs until its physically rebooted.
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That changes everything ! Until now I though registrating was super very hard to do and had to be tried several times during 2 runs to have a successful result =PP.
I'm gonna register 6 sprites as soon as possible ^^.
Why does not hot sim help since I can do it while being in hot-sim ? I thouhg it gives +2 to all tests in the matrix
It does take 1 hour per Rating of the sprite to register and you do take 2 Fade for each hit the sprite gets (not net hit), so there is some danger of needing medical attention.
Hotsim only adds to Matrix Actions, Registering sprites is not a Matrix Action.
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Ouch, for a 5 ( as I have 5 resonnance ) rated sprite, it gives a 10 fading value, which means 10sBox against 11 dices :S, and according to the book, it applies for compiling and registering, meaning that I need to compile, wait for the stun dmgs to go away ( within the 8 hours ) enough or get healed, and then register ( or maybe the stun damage from registering happens at the ned of it, after the 5 hours spent doing it ? ).
And I though registering would be a matrix action as compiling is in the list, but that was a bad guess, registering is indeed not in it.
Another question, it is said that a sprite as one optionnal power for every full 3 rating points, is that the optionnals CFs that are listed below or the options ( because it's not written "optional" there ) ?
I read again the Hacking part of SR4, and there are still a few things I don't know : can I while entering a node thread my armor/stealth or ask a sprite to assist it so that it has a higher value for the tests ? If yes, should I use just armor/stealth + threaded value, or skill+armor/health + threaded value ?
Do I have to do it each time I enter a new node ?
To detect hidden nodes ( at least for hackers ), it says that electronic warfare + scan is needed.
With electronic warfare 1 and having to thread scan, it makes a very bad value, does I need it as a technomancer ? Because that's the only reason I see for not dropping the cracking group and keeping only Hacking.
In the 'diagnostic' description, it is not written that the maximum value for the number of extra dices equals the current skill level with using it in a smartgun, where did you see that ? ( I didn't find it in unwired either )
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Ouch, for a 5 ( as I have 5 resonnance ) rated sprite, it gives a 10 fading value, which means 10sBox against 11 dices :S,
It is hits, not double rating. So a Rating 5 sprite rolls 10 dice, gets X hits, you take 2X damage.
Another question, it is said that a sprite as one optionnal power for every full 3 rating points, is that the optionnals CFs that are listed below or the options ( because it's not written "optional" there ) ?
Yes. At least that is the way I have always interpreted it.
can I while entering a node thread my armor/stealth or ask a sprite to assist it so that it has a higher value for the tests ? If yes, should I use just armor/stealth + threaded value, or skill+armor/health + threaded value ?
Armor is only used for cybercombat, not entering a node. You need to thread Stealth or have a sprite assist you prior to entering the node if you want to use the higher stealth for your detection threshold. The threshold for detection is CF Rating (so including the Threading or Assisted Operation). Health plays no part. I am working on an example hack but it takes a long time.
Do I have to do it each time I enter a new node ?
Each time you hack-on-the-fly you have a chance of detection. If you want the increased CF rating, then yes.
To detect hidden nodes ( at least for hackers ), it says that electronic warfare + scan is needed.
With electronic warfare 1 and having to thread scan, it makes a very bad value, does I need it as a technomancer ? Because that's the only reason I see for not dropping the cracking group and keeping only Hacking.
Good question, it does hurt but you can get a sprite to do it for you. It will be part of my example (which will be released in ~ 10,000 years)
In the 'diagnostic' description, it is not written that the maximum value for the number of extra dices equals the current skill level with using it in a smartgun, where did you see that ? ( I didn't find it in unwired either )
Diagnostics allows the sprite to make a Teamwork Test SR4A page 65
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It will be part of my example (which will be released in ~ 10,000 years)
I will go a have a little nab while I wait then.
And for the record I prefer to get my wake-up kiss from a princess instead of a prince.
Rasmus 8)
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My bad, I wanted to say stealth and I said health instead ^^".
It seems much less dangerous and much easyer to compile and register sprite now that I know that it is about the hits scored and not the pure rating value with the fading and the registering / compiling :).
I'll make sure to have 6 registered sprites ( or even 7 if I raise my charisme to 7 ) for each run I think.
Btw, if I choose a stream, am I only allowed to
Yes. At least that is the way I have always interpreted it.
you mean for the options, not the CFs, right ?
So with 5 rating sprites ( more and I can take physical dmgs from fading ), I can only get one power =S. If I get an extra machine sprite to use for a mate's smartgun, and in a situation, he's not there, I can't use it with the stability power with my own smartgun right ?
Fortunately, crack sprite can scan, because I'm probably gonna choose the Technoshaman stream, so I guess I'll drop eletronic warfare 1 and rely completely on the psirte for detecting hidden nodes, since everything with cybercombat I could use will be much better with a sprite ( Paladin ), and nuke uses hacking =).
Thank again for the time you are spending helping, it does really help a lot !!!
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Not a problem. For the sprite questions, check SR4A 242. You get 1 optional CF per 3 Rating (round down). You get all the powers, and you should check up on Tasks (SR4A 240-241).
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SR4A ?
Because the only book I have that has that many pages is the core book ( optimized ), and there aren't those things in those pages =s ( from 239, it's about rigging and drones )
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SR4A stands for the anniversary edition. It has slightly different pagination, and also some rules changes. I don't think that changed, but I'm not sure where in the non-anniversary book it would be.
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SR4A ?
Because the only book I have that has that many pages is the core book ( optimized ), and there aren't those things in those pages =s ( from 239, it's about rigging and drones )
Shadowrun 4 20th Anniversary Edition. It replaced the original core rulebook (and updated some items).
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=((
I'm gonna look for that, I don't know where it is yet.
I'm wondering, if I loose my glasses, can I just thread smartlink and as a random registered sprite to sustain it ?
Or maybe I'll just use lenses, but I like the glasses idea more =p.
One thing completely different, I'm choosing exactly which weapon I'm gonna have, and I kidna like the Morrisey Elan ( hold-out pistol ).
It is written P20 of shadowrun 4th Arsenal that it cannot mount any accesories ... but I found on internet couple of cases where people do that still.
Does it mean that I can't put anything on the barrel/top/down part of it ? Can I still put an internal smartgun, and things like a Gecko Grip/Trigger removal/Tracker ?
I like the fact that I could go probably anywhere with such a pistol, and everything in would be undetected by AMDs ( it's a bit expensive though ).
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It can't mount accessories, but it can still have modifications. See Arsenal for the modifications rules.
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Thanks !
So I was in the right section of the book, I was wondering was the sound suppressor I chose was that expensive, now I know ^^.
But I need to do it myself according to the Arsenal, or at least to ask someone to do it, and I have no contact with such skills, I don't think my mates can do it either, there is not other way than giving up or discussing it with my GM is there ?
I'll have to choose something else than Hold-out pistols to get my smartgun then :x
Btw if I want to use devices like Trigger removal, or and Ammo skip system, Do I need to have an internal smartlink or a threaded complex form ?
Because I don't really understand how someone could command the gun with the brain only with wearing glasses/lenses for smartlink.
I looked in the SR4 core book and I found that about teamwork :
Sometimes characters may choose to work together on a
task, whether they are holding the door against a rampaging
paracritter or fixing a car. To determine success, pick one character
as the primary acting character. Each of the secondary
characters makes the appropriate test; each hit they score adds
+1 die the primary character’s dice pool. The primary character
than makes the test, and her results determine success.
If any of the assisting characters roll a critical glitch, raise
the threshold for the test by 1 (3 for Extended Tests).
There is nothing about max points deppending on the primary character's skill, is it a new rule from the SR4A ?
We won't be relying on that one I think, so then I just don't need to raise my pistol skill level to 4,I can be fine with 2 or 3 if I need points somewhere else.
That would mean too that I can have more than one sprite assisting the smartgun, right ?
So if I have 3 machine sprite of rating 5, will I get X more dices where X is the success from 30 dices ? that sounds pretty huge !
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I'm wondering, if I loose my glasses, can I just thread smartlink and as a random registered sprite to sustain it ?
Or maybe I'll just use lenses, but I like the glasses idea more =p.
Yes
But I need to do it myself according to the Arsenal, or at least to ask someone to do it, and I have no contact with such skills, I don't think my mates can do it either, there is not other way than giving up or discussing it with my GM is there ?
From my understanding, weapons purchased with modifications at character creation come already installed (i.e. you had them installed in your backstory). Other than that, discuss with your GM.
I'll have to choose something else than Hold-out pistols to get my smartgun then :x
Btw if I want to use devices like Trigger removal, or and Ammo skip system, Do I need to have an internal smartlink or a threaded complex form ?
Because I don't really understand how someone could command the gun with the brain only with wearing glasses/lenses for smartlink.
Smartlink (the complex form) and a smartgun system (the mod/accessory to the weapon) are two different things. You need to have a smartgun system on the gun which will allow you to fire a triggerless gun or ammo skip, and you need a smartlink to interface with the smartgun. Think of it as a robot arm (smartgun system) and a computer (smartlink) in real life. You need the computer to send messages to a robot arm, but the robot arm is able to make changes to the physical world (wield metal)
I looked in the SR4 core book and I found that about teamwork :
There is nothing about max points deppending on the primary character's skill, is it a new rule from the SR4A ?
I don’t know if it is in SR4, it is in SR4A.
We won't be relying on that one I think, so then I just don't need to raise my pistol skill level to 4,I can be fine with 2 or 3 if I need points somewhere else.
That would mean too that I can have more than one sprite assisting the smartgun, right ?
So if I have 3 machine guns of rating 5, will I get 15 more dices ? that sounds pretty huge !
You will get 3 * (Rating x 2 hits), not 3 * (Rating). This may have changed from SR4, but that’s how it works in SR4A, and also an example of why they put a teamwork cap on.
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You quoted me before I finished editing my post with the calculation of the dices to correct it :pp, I meant that.
I don't think I will use more than on sprite anyway, it would become rediculous otherwise.
Smartlink (the complex form) and a smartgun system (the mod/accessory to the weapon) are two different things. You need to have a smartgun system on the gun which will allow you to fire a triggerless gun or ammo skip, and you need a smartlink to interface with the smartgun. Think of it as a robot arm (smartgun system) and a computer (smartlink) in real life. You need the computer to send messages to a robot arm, but the robot arm is able to make changes to the physical world (wield metal)
yeyeah, ^^, I understood that like you, but the thing is, if you remove the trigger, then you have to give the order yourself to the smartgun ( from the smartlink then ) to fire it.
I understand that with a smartlink inside you, you can think "I wanna shoot that guy" and it fires, but how would that work with lenses since it's not connected to your brain ? ( Well with technomancer and Wireless lenses, the problem is kinda solved, but in the general case, how would a normal user do that ? ).
That's just a detail that catched my curiosity ;p.
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I don't answer those kind of questions. I just answer the rules. Hopefully someone who understands the matrix conceptually will be able to answer it (probably through AR gloves or trodes but those arn't required).
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I looked in the SR4 core book and I found that about teamwork :
There is nothing about max points deppending on the primary character's skill, is it a new rule from the SR4A ?
I don’t know if it is in SR4, it is in SR4A.
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In the case of Diagnostics, if that's what's being referred to again, is specifies in the power's description on SR4A page 242: "The maximum dice bonus the character can receive from the teamwork test is equal to that character's skill".
So, regardless of whether or not Teamwork is capped, the bonus provided by the Diagnostics power is.
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I understand that with a smartlink inside you, you can think "I wanna shoot that guy" and it fires, but how would that work with lenses since it's not connected to your brain ? ( Well with technomancer and Wireless lenses, the problem is kinda solved, but in the general case, how would a normal user do that ? ).
That's just a detail that catched my curiosity ;p.
Normally, it's connected through the user's PAN via a commlink. The gun's sensors relay the data to the commlink, which then relays that targeting information to the visual display on either the glasses, contact lenses, or cybereye. Technically, it never passes through the user's brain as Smartlink doesn't actually have any control of your physical actions... as I understand it, it basically provides a targeting reticle for you to aim at based on the gun's analysis of available information from its sensors, making it more likely you will hit.
Could be wrong, though.
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So this is just a mistery ;p
Hopefully I'm a technomancer, it should be fine for me then.
actually unwired says A weapon without a mechanical trigger can only be fi red
by wireless command, via skinlink or smartlink, or over a fi beroptic-cable that connects the weapon with its user’s datajack.
In the case of Diagnostics, if that's what's being referred to again, is specifies in the power's description on SR4A page 242: "The maximum dice bonus the character can receive from the teamwork test is equal to that character's skill".
So, regardless of whether or not Teamwork is capped, the bonus provided by the Diagnostics power is.
so it's a new rule in SR4A, diagnostic description is page 237 and says that :
The Diagnostics power allows the sprite to evaluate the
inner workings of an electronic device. The sprite must be accessing
the device in question. The sprite can then convey this
information and assist someone using or repairing the device.
Make a sprite rating x 2 test; each hit adds 1 die to the character’s
test to use or repair the item.
But I won't abuse of it, I'll just get a rating 4 or 5 sprite to assit my smartgun and that's all, with 4 pistols +2 hold out +2 ( spartgun bonuses) + X from diagnostic and tje 5 Agility of the cyber delta arm, it could make something like 13~15 dices which looks really nice ^^.
what about this new version of my char ?
Race 30 points
Elf
Attributes 235 points
Body 3
Agility 2
Reaction 3
Strength 1
Charisma 7
Intuition 3
Logic 4
Willpower 3
Edge 3
Resonnance 5 ( 6 - 1 essence )
Initiative 6
Qualities -25 points
Technomancer 5
Paragon ( Flow ) 5 ( with the stream Technoshaman )
Mortal Ennemy -10
Addiction -10
Lust -5
Amnesia/Trauma -5
Exotic birds phobia -5
Skills 150 points
Blades 1 ( retractable +2 )
Pistols 4 ( hold-out +2 )
infiltration 1
perception 1
dodge 1 ( ranged +2 )
Tasking
- Compilation 5
- Registration 4
Electronics ( 3 group )
- Hardware 3
- Computer 4
- Data search 3
- Software 4
Cracking
- Hacking 5
Influence ( group 1 )
- Con 1
- Etiquette 3
- Leadership 1
- Negociation 1
Complex forms 40 points
Analyze 5
Stealth 5
Armor 5
Spoof 5
Edit 5
Exploit 5
Command 5
Nuke 5
Contacts 6 points ( 2 contacts 1/1 given )
Cyber surgeon loy 3 network 3
Johnson loy 1 network 3
Gear 4 points
Actioneer business clothes ( 5 / 3 )
with Fire resistance 1 Insulation 1 Chemicals protection 1 Nonconductivity 2 = 2400 Nuyenns
Helmet ( 1 / 2 )
with Ultrasound vision enchancement = 1100 Nuyen
Here I don't know if I'm allowed to do that, I'll ask my GM, it is during action phases where we come out from the vehicule and we know that fighting's incoming, for some extra armor and to detect people hidden with a spell, I think having a helmet with some wireless connection in 2072 shoud be realistic.
Morissey Elan ( 4P 0AP SA 5(c) Ammo 7R ) - Hod-out pistol
with intern smartgun system, sound supressor, tracker, trigger removal, Gecko grip, all of that with Ceramic/plasteel components = 8550 Nuyens
I like the idea here of having a very useful hold-out pistol that I could be able to bring almost anywhere.
Morissey Alta ( 5P -1AP SA 12(c) Ammo 7R ) - Heavy pistol
with intern smartgun system, ammo skip system, tracker, trigger removal, gecko grip, personnalized grip = 2350 Nuyens
This one is during fights where we come out from the vehicule and we know that fight is incoming anyway and I don't need to hide
Ammunitions :
Hi-C plastic round*5 = 750 Nuyenns
Gel round*5 = 150 Nuyenns
Ex-Explosiv rounds*5 = 500 Nuyenns
Tracer = 75 Nuyenns
Satellite link = 500 Nuyenns
AR Gloves = 250 Nuyenns
Cyberware :
detla arm with retractable blade, storage, dart, contact taser
Agi 5 Body 3 Str 4 Arm 3 = From background, 0 Nuyenn cost
Toxin extractor lvl 1 = From background, 0 Nuyenn cost
rest 3175 Nuyenn
Any advices about it ? suggestions abou what to do with the remaining Nuyenns ?
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suggestions about the nuyenns ? :(
And I was thinking about something, if I won't be rigging a lot, do I need a command complex form or should I rather choose another one ?
My choice was :
Analyze
Stealth
Armor
Exploit
Spoof
Nuke
Edit
Command
With nuke, I don't feel like disarm is very usefull, I can screw the rating of anything, like the analyze programm from one node can I not ? Then what would be the best, dropping command for something else or keeping it ?
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Don't mix that up, rigging (ie jumping in) isn't done via command. Command gives you the possibility to remote-control stuff. Most jumped-in actions are Response + skill, while remote control is Command + skill. What you go for is personal preference - I personally prefer being jumped in over remote control (I assume I just need the occasional feedback spike from getting damaged ... mmm feedback ...).
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Okay
As I'm not gonna be rigging ( or almost not ), I did not "explore" that part of the book ^^.
But it would still make sense to have the CF command I think actually, what it does is taking control of electronic devices, being in AR or VR isn't it ? So I think I'm gonna take it as it could still be usefull in some situations, I don't see anything that would be better.
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Rigging is best done by Remote Control (i.e. Command), because Command substitutes for attributes (except perception test which uses sensor). You can overthread / assist operation / codeslinger “Control Device” to stack crazy bonuses to Remote Control. Because of this, Jumping in is not as good for rigging.
Take Command.
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And should I get basic specs to be able to pilot cars and so, or can I still do it without it ?
And another question, what is the difference between doing it in AR or in full-VR ? ( I know there is the +2 hot sim bonuse, but what are the other differences ? because if I can juste hide behind a wall for couple of second and take control of a drone/car because I need it at that moment, it can be sweeet ! =) )
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I don't know what you mean as far as "basic specs".
AR gives +1 to driving tests, and VR gives +2 IPs (and +1 Matrix Init).
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I meant those skills like pilot aircraft, I thouhgh there would be one for basic vehicles but it does not seem so.
And basically, can I run an command a car in the same time even though commanding the car/running will be slower I guess ?
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You cannot default on Pilot Aircraft and Pilot Anthroform. Pilot Ground Vehicle you can default on.
You can use complex actions to Control Device as described in SR4A. I'm not sure the pages in SR4 or what details they have. All actions are complex actions when Commanding Device if that is what you mean by slower. That just means you don't do simple actions (like 2 short/long bursts).
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Hei
I've not been posting for quite a long time ^^
We had couple of games with my game master and the other guys, and then I have some questions ( again ).
If I nuke a node that I'm in ( for example, I'm attacked by an Black IC and I want to nuke it to protect me, she depends on the node we're both in and I need to nuke that one, right ? ), do I get in trouble ? because if the node is rebooted, that could not really be good for me could it ?
Did you find time to do your tuto about how to use the Matrix squee_nabob ? because I think we're not using the right rules ( actuall I'm pretty sure of it since my GM wants to simplify things a bit ) and I would really like to see exactly what the good ones are, and it's still not clear to me.
Basically for example, when I'm in a node, whenever I do something, the node makes a test against my lvl of stealth, and if it's on the fly, the value of my stealth decrease at each test right ? because my GM just has his scales and ask for one test with my stealth ( with stealth + resonnance I think ) at the beginning of it, and then no other test with it until I get into another node.
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I’m still working on my example (and it will need to be reviewed by some other people before it’s ready to post) .I sorta stopped for a while when I realized it was impossible to completely erase your resonance signature. Also, an example isn’t going to simplify things, the way to simplify things is to talk to your GM on how you want to house rule the matrix.
For stealth, the way I have seen it done is the node makes a threshold stealth test when you hack in (as noted in hacking on the fly or probing), then if IC is running with the Analyze program, it can make Pilot + Analyze vs. Hacking + Stealth opposed checks to detect you. If it fails, it can try again every action with a -2 penalty.
Never really used nuke. If the node reboots you will have to rehack in