Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: JustADude on <12-12-11/1423:33>
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Okay, so my new game starts tomorrow and I've got a player that has had a very limited amount of time* to think about the mechanics of his character due to finals and a teetering "C' in a key class, so I'm hoping I could tap some of the vast reserves of knowledge around here to help me help him.
What I'm actually looking for is, basically, a breakdown of what gear, 'ware, and drones you all think should go into being a Rigger. Don't worry too much about pricing and availability; I'm wanting more of a high-level "wish-list" type overview, just to give him a place to start... I'd do it myself, but I've never actually sat down and made a Rigger. :(
*i.e. "None"
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Well, first and foremost
Control Rig Implant (.5 Essence, 10,000 Y, Availability: 8 )
Simsense Booster (.5 Essence, 65,000 Y, Availability: 8 )
A commlink with Firewall 6, Response 6, Signal 6, System 6 (22,000 Y, Availability: NA)
Simsense Accelerator (15,000 Y, Availability: 14) - Restricted Gear
Command Program 6 (600 Y, Availability: NA)
Total: 112,600 Y, Max Availability: 14
This will get the rigger to have 5 IP while Rigging or in VR. Some other method of IP in the meat body (Wired Reflexes, Moved By Wire) will also be needed.
After that, it becomes a matter of what drones and vehicles (based off of the terrain and the skills of the rigger).
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Check the link in my sig and look at the Mercenary Rigger (for a mundane rigger) or the Info Savant (for a technomancer rigger).
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For Ground based drones there are always the following:
Ares Coyote (Medium Tracked with weapon mount and TacNet 4 built in)
Lockheed Arachne (Small walker with weapon mount)
Mitsuhama Chinpira (Large Walker designed to feel humanoid with three weapon mounts)
Wuxing Hussa (Large Hover/Tracked drone with weapon mount and TacNet 4)
For Aerial:
Ford LEBD-1
McDonnell-Douglas Nimrod
AZTECHNOLOGY LIEBRE SURVEILLANCE/PURSUIT RPV
Eirrann-Tir Finsceal
LONE STAR STRATO-9
ARES AIR-SUPPLY
ARES GUARDIAN
Is he wanting lots of small cheap drones or just a few heavy hitting drones? They can get expensive very fast when packing all the options in. Also, several of the smaller mini-drone and micro-drones are useful for supplying channels for a TacNet (Flying Eye, iBall, Fly Spy, etc.).
On a related note, riggers need a damn good commlink like Tziz mentioned. Keep in mind if he's picking up heavy armor (military grade) the helmet comes with a commlink that can be upgraded to DR 6.
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Bit off topic, but I have gotten confused on the skills used for various drones. Could someone help me out here? I've been kind of going off the image for the ones that have them, but there are some not pictured I do believe, and I'm not even sure that I've been going with the right skills.
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Anything that flies (excluding outside the atmosphere) uses Pilot:Aircraft, anything that walks is Pilot:Anthroform, anything used on water is Pilot:Watercraftand anything that travels along the ground is Pilot:Groundcraft. Its extremely basic when you get down to it. There is the Exotic Vehicle skill, but its used for things such as hot air balloons and jetpacks.
Groundcraft includes things that hover along the surface or moves on tracks, wheels, etc.
Anthroform includes anything that travels on legs.
Those are really the only two that are often mistaken in my experience, if the vehicle can operate in multiple ways, you use the skill for its current method of travel.
If that's not helpful, what particular drones are you looking at?
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Anything that flies (excluding outside the atmosphere) uses Pilot:Aircraft, anything that walks is Pilot:Anthroform, anything used on water is Pilot:Watercraftand anything that travels along the ground is Pilot:Groundcraft. Its extremely basic when you get down to it. There is the Exotic Vehicle skill, but its used for things such as hot air balloons and jetpacks.
Groundcraft includes things that hover along the surface or moves on tracks, wheels, etc.
Anthroform includes anything that travels on legs.
Those are really the only two that are often mistaken in my experience, if the vehicle can operate in multiple ways, you use the skill for its current method of travel.
If that's not helpful, what particular drones are you looking at?
Thanks, that's just how I was thinking. I was just looking for confirmation I was thinking on the right track and there wasn't some obscure skill buried somewhere that's just for drones.
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Not to my knowledge. That said, if drones are the only time you plan to use a skill, the remote operations specialty is always a good choice. 8)
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It is also good to remember that every drone and vehicle has a built-in commlink. The Firewall/Response/Signal/System ratings for these commlinks are, by default all the same.
Standard, commercially available: 3
Security-level or police-level (usually with a Availability of #R, but check flavor text): 4
Military-level (usually with Availability of #F, but check flavor text): 5
These commlinks can and should be upgraded just like a commlink, because the max rating for any programs run on the drones (into autosofts) are still limited by the System Rating, drones can be attacked in the Matrix (hence Firewall), use Response for Reaction when operating autonomously (and Agility for anything unusual, like an anthroform juggling) and need to be in mutual Signal range with your own commlink (hence Signal for long distance usage).
Firewall and System can be bought, as detailed out of the main book (Rating 4-6: Rating x 500 for Firewall and System separately). Response can be upgraded as detailed in upgrading commlinks in the main book (max: Original Rating +2 or 6, whichever is less). Signal can also be upgraded like a commlink (max: Original Rating +2 or 6, whichever is less), but drones / vehicles can also upgrade their Signal through their Sensor Package.
Equally as important is the make-up of the Sensor Package. Drones and Vehicles do not, by default, have the same five senses that metahumans do (sight, smell, hearing, touch, taste) and thus need to have components of their Sensor Package make up this. However, drones and vehicles have more 'senses' to choose from (radiation detection, laser microphone, MAD detectors, etc) and thus when building your Sensor Package, cover your bases equally. It is entirely possible to have a Sensor of 6 on a drone that can't hear anything because you forgot to add some sort of microphone. Arsenal has the default sensor package for a vehicle, but drones require some 'interpretation' of the flavor text.
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Thanks for all the help and suggestions, guys!
One other thing, though; what do you all think of the Responsive Interface Gear from "War!"? Gives you the functions of a Trode Net, Sim Module, Sim Rig, and Skinlink combined, costs 2400¥, takes up 2 Armor slots and 1 Helmet slot, and has a paltry 8-open availability.
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It's a decent package for those that need robust matrix access. Trodes and the Sim Module in the helmet give you access to VR without wasting time to put regular trodes on. The skinlink allows you to voluntarily lower your Signal Rating to 0 to eliminate mutual Signal Range from enemy hackers while still interfacing with all of your held equipment. The SimRig is mainly for the brass to get real first-person-view of what's happening on the ground without the possibility of the soldier telling white lies. All told, a nice package but not something my runners jump for joy about.
A Hot Sim Module (something I forgot to mention in the commlink write-up) is 250Y and can be part of your commlink, as can Skinlink and Trodes. By my players usually go the Datajack route to get their DNI access. Datajacks can be installed anywhere where Trodes have be on your head. The SimRig isn't that helpful for runners unless they are in a situation where they can't trust their own memories (in which case, could you really trust the recording from a SimRig??) or they need to show a client something up close and personal. And all of this assumes that you are in a place that wearing a military helmet isn't going to draw strange looks (my players in urban Seattle).
Something else for you rigger idea... either get regular autosofts and pilot programs and have the group hacker strip the copy protection and registration off of it, or buy pirated autosofts and pilot programs. Both can now be copied and with the exception of autosofts for specific skills, like Maneuver (Pilot Ground) vs. Maneuver (Pilot Aircraft) or Targeting (Automatics) vs. Targeting (Heavy Weapons), all drones can use the same autosoft that will fit in their on-board commlink. Some GMs will also require the actual Pilot Program to be different, but the same idea applies. Get your drones into a position that they can operate autonomously with nearly the same efficiency as with the rigger remote-controlling them or rigging them and you now have a fleet that can response to a command with a single Simple Action rather than waste Complex Actions operating each one individually.
This is where you start to see 'dronomancers' get insane quick. Drones operating autonomously can follow out simple instructions, have 3 IP, Initiative equal to the on-board commlink's Response + the Pilot program rating, use Sensors + Clearsight Autosoft to perceive, use the on-board commlink's Response for ranged dodge (or Response + Defense autosoft for full defense) and Pilot + appropriate autosoft (Maneuver, Targeting, Defense, Covert Ops, etc) for most everything else. The drone's Strength is equal to it's Body for times where melee combat is actually used. And drones do not go away when services are used up (although they do get costly quick). But nothing saves your team's hoop like having a small fleet of rotordrones with machine guns come up over the building across the street and lay multiple suppressive fire zones immediately in front of the corp sec that is chasing you (playing "Rise of the Valkyries" of course).
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Thanks for all the help and suggestions, guys!
One other thing, though; what do you all think of the Responsive Interface Gear from "War!"? Gives you the functions of a Trode Net, Sim Module, Sim Rig, and Skinlink combined, costs 2400¥, takes up 2 Armor slots and 1 Helmet slot, and has a paltry 8-open availability.
It's usefulness really depends on how your SR setting views and treats helmets and sim rigs. If you can just wear a normal sim rig (which is a trode net + sim module) without issue, then I'll pass unless I thought it was nifty. If your GM does "during the combat, your sim rig gets loose and you loose your sim rig connection" style stuff, then sticking your simrig in a helmet is a smart idea. Since helmets typically have 5-6 capacity*, you can stick the simrig in your helmet for 5 capacity.
The nice thing that the RIG does is save you 4 helmet slots in exchange for a little cash and 2 armor slots. You do have to be wearing armor that has capacity which most don't. Now if you don't use armor capacity, then you just say "I put my simrig into my helmet" and be done with it.
As to why you want a simrig in your hat, it's a fairly cheap and explicit way to add 3+ senses to your tacnet (sight, hearing, smell/taste plus vision mods). You want to run a tacnet 4 ASAP and a simrig is a nice way to reach the magical number of 8 senses.
As a drone rigger, you'll also want a tacnet for your drones. There's some debate about the ways that a drone's senses count. There's three major readings. One is that drones have a number of senses equal to sensor rating. Another is that a drone can either have a number of senses equal to sensor rating or count senses like a metahuman. The last is the drones count senses like a metahuman and get to add sensor rating on top of that. Personally I prefer one of the latter two readings.
The first reading makes it so that drones can't join a rating 4 tacnet which is sad. The other two makes it fairly easy for a drone to join a tacnet. You'll have to use the poorly laid out drone sensor upgrade rules which I explain here (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=5197.msg82044#msg82044).
*- I can't find where it says the capacity of a normal standalone helmet. I'm assuming 5-6 since that seems to be the standard. If it doesn't have capacity, then you'll have to wear one that does instead.
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+1 on using Umaro's Archetypes (Merc Rigger or InfoSavant)
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As a drone rigger, you'll also want a tacnet for your drones. There's some debate about the ways that a drone's senses count. There's three major readings. One is that drones have a number of senses equal to sensor rating. Another is that a drone can either have a number of senses equal to sensor rating or count senses like a metahuman. The last is the drones count senses like a metahuman and get to add sensor rating on top of that. Personally I prefer one of the latter two readings.
The first reading makes it so that drones can't join a rating 4 tacnet which is sad. The other two makes it fairly easy for a drone to join a tacnet. You'll have to use the poorly laid out drone sensor upgrade rules which I explain here.
Well, you can get them to join a TacNet 4 on the first interpretation, its just that you need two drones for every "member" of the TacNet. (ie. You have a Hussar as the member and an Arachne is feeding its sensors as channels to the Hussar to bump its sensor count.
Personally how I read the section is that drones can be treated two ways. A.) The Drone is a member and accumulates channels just like all other members. B.) The Drone can feed channels to any members equal to its sensor rating. The section stating drones add channels equal to their sensor rating is in a section clearly mean to show how "members" can get sensor channels.
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Well, you can get them to join a TacNet 4 on the first interpretation, its just that you need two drones for every "member" of the TacNet. (ie. You have a Hussar as the member and an Arachne is feeding its sensors as channels to the Hussar to bump its sensor count.
Personally how I read the section is that drones can be treated two ways. A.) The Drone is a member and accumulates channels just like all other members. B.) The Drone can feed channels to any members equal to its sensor rating. The section stating drones add channels equal to their sensor rating is in a section clearly mean to show how "members" can get sensor channels.
So your reading is that drones can function like normal metahuman members of a tacnet or can add sense channels to others. An off-the-shelf* flyspy can add 2 sensor channel to someone. Also in your example would both the Hussar and Arachne have tacnets running at 4 or just the Hussar? What about 4 sensor rating 2 drones with tacnet 4? Your reading seems valid, but I'm not quite sure how it all works out in practice.
*-You might need tacnet software on said drone, but you may not.
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If its adding sensor rating to a "members" channels it doesn't need the TacNet software by a strict reading. It simply feeds data to the members TacNet program.
If its actually a "member" of the TacNet, then it needs the TacNet software up and running. The confusion is that it has rules for how members get channels (before which it mentions that a drone can be a member), and in those rules are rules for using drones to supplement a members channels.
So yes, an off the shelf fly-spy can add its sensor rating to your channels (its giving another view point for extra data, etc that is getting fed to your software then heading out to the TacNet as a whole). Technically a blind, deaf, can't smell guy can just use four fly-spy's to hit his needed eight sense channels. Although, really the Flying Eye's are much cheaper and harder to shoot down.
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Technically a blind, deaf, can't smell guy can just use four fly-spy's to hit his needed eight sense channels. Although, really the Flying Eye's are much cheaper and harder to shoot down.
So, really, a guy willing to drop 110,400¥* could, theoretically, use 48** Flying Eye drones to fill out a Rating 4 TacNet using just drones.
Can we say "Blind Io", anyone?
*38,400¥ for the drones, 72,000¥ for the TacSofts
** 6 groups of 8, assuming the guy contributes no other channels himself.
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Yeppers. Of course one or more of those drones go down and the system is going to crumble ever so nicely.
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Yeppers. Of course one or more of those drones go down and the system is going to crumble ever so nicely.
So that's why you spend a few thousand more nuyen and make it a nice, redundant 60 or so. 8)
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Yep, and that's why I think Knight Errant should always have a TacNet 4 going in public areas of Seattle. With all the drones they have on surveillance and the other inputs they have (traffic cams, security cam access, etc) all an officer should have to do is stream the program and have instant access. To top it off, even if the officers aren't carrying DR4 commlinks (which as security I think they should be) the program can always be optimized to run on as low as a rating 2 commlink.
Of course one jackass mage with Electric Cloud trying to show off for his buddies will do a lot of damage, but that's what law suits are for.
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Or you know just slave them all to your comlink and only use one tacsoft program...
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Or you know just slave them all to your comlink and only use one tacsoft program...
Except you have to have 1 copy of the TacSoft for each "member" of the network, and you get a bonus equal to (Members -2), because you have to have a minimum of 3 members to have a network.
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Or you know just slave them all to your comlink and only use one tacsoft program...
Except you have to have 1 copy of the TacSoft for each "member" of the network, and you get a bonus equal to (Members -2), because you have to have a minimum of 3 members to have a network.
I believe Katrex is talking about running a Centralized TacNet which only needs 1 copy of TacNet software. That approach does use a heck of a lot of subscription channels for the master though. You'll likely want to use a nexus for it.
Technically you can't put optimization on a TacNet program because it's a tactical software and not a common use, hacking, autosoft, or simsense program. Either way, you could just run it on a rating 4 node which isn't too hard to do.
I do agree however that TacNet software should be quite ubiquitous. It's a really good boost for a small investment. Heck, I'm of the opinion that TacNets should be moved into the core book* and made a bigger part of the game. It helps keep PCs wireless and make them actually care about the matrix. I'll want a heavy reworking of how they work though because the way they are written now is terrible.
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Hey, glad this thread is here. I am interested in drone riggers, but a bit confused by sensors.
I understand for a drone to spot something its Sensors+Clearsight, for a Rigger to see through a drone its Sensors+Perception. I know you can improve the sensors of a drone by customizing it. What I don't understand is...what senses does a drone have?
I imagine they're basically mobile cameras, so if I want to see low-light I'd have to add that to the sensors. Do I have to add in a microphone if I want to hear, or do all drones allow for my rigger to use all normal senses?
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Arsenal 105 Vehicle Sensors has the default standard vehicle sensor package (Capacity 12). For drones with less capacity, talk to your GM on which sensors are not present by default.
A standard trideo camera includes sound (SR4A 332). Drones do not include Olfactory or Tactile sensory devices by default.
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You'll also note that the standard Capacity 12 sensor package for vehicles have two cameras and two range finders, for front and back. Vehicles do not have the ability to 'turn their heads' so sensor placement is also important. The standard camera does come with a microphone so seeing in a particular direction and mono-channel hearing is not difficult with just one camera, but rarely are you in the position where that will be enough.
Based on the sensor package of the drone, I recommend (in order):
1 Camera (Rating 4 w/ Low-Light, Thermographic, Flare Compensation and Visual Magnification)
1 Rangefinder
1 Motion Detector
1 Radar
If the vehicle is large enough or unwieldy enough to not be able to turn without moving
1+ additional Cameras (enough to have all-round vision, usually 6 for a vehicle)
1+ additional Rangefinders (1 per camera)
1+ additional Motion Detectors (1 per vehicle face)
Once the vehicle and see, track, gauge distance and hear in all directions, the remaining sensor slots are based on what you need it for. Drones that scout for you should have Non-Linear Junction Detectors (Arsenal pg. 59), MAD detectors and chemsniffers to detect potential threats (maybe Radiation Detector too if appropriate). Vehicles (and drones that fight for you) should have whatever sensors needed to help with a TacNet system.