Shadowrun
Off-topic => General Gaming => Topic started by: Slazarith on <01-16-12/0446:56>
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Skip to the stars for summary :P
I just recently bought the Call of Cthulhu core book from Chaosium, and in preparation for the upcoming game I'm going to run, this book goes everywhere with me. Every spare second I have, I crack it open and review Mythos, rules, or stats, just to make sure I've really got as solid of a grasp as I think I do.
So, it came with me while I was out visiting my mother. There's some down time, so I'm sitting on the couch reading about sanity loss, and my little sister come up to me, points at the book, and says, "Jacob, what's that?"
I paused for a minute, thinking about how to explain it. I said, "Well, it's a game, but not like Zelda or Mario. You play it with other people, imagining what you're doing instead of seeing it on the tv. It's a lot more complex, too. In a roleplaying game, you can do anything you want to, from killing a dragon, to building a chair. As long as it fits the game world, you can do it."
She asked me what CoC was like in particular, to which I tried to explain about evil gods and ordinary people caught in extraordinary situations. I also told her that Shadowrun was set in the future, with magic and robot body parts, and that D&D was fantasy, with knights and wizards, and trolls and dragons.
To which she replied, "Oh. Okay."
Well, hey, whatever. Maybe she'll ask again in a few years.
Next day, though, as I'm getting ready to leave, and am heading out the door, she says " Jacob, I'd really like to play Shadowrun, or D&D." (Remembered the frakking names. She was paying attention :D )
So now I'm stuck with a dilemma. I can not pass this up.This is going to happen, no matter what. BUT, I don't know what the hell I should have her play. I've rolled it around in my head, and I've come up with a few conclusions:
1. NOT Call of Cthulhu. Not an investigator's chance in R'lyeh. Not only is the explanation of the Mythos way too much to make her sit down and listen to, it's just not something that really jives with a ten year old. "What? I just got eaten? I HATE THIS GAME!" So on and so forth.
2. I'm iffy about Shadowrun. She doesn't really have any prior experience with cyberpunk, and sitting her down to watch the dull as a butter knife snooze-fest Blade Runner (I like Blade Runner, I really do.), or lending her my copy of Neuromancer as a reading assignment doesn't seem like a good idea.
3. D&D; Fantasy = Good. She's got more experience with a fantasy setting than the other two. She loves Lord of the Rings, Harry Potter, and the aforementioned Zelda series. She's read the Percy Jackson book and loved them. Likes Egyptian culture and all their "funny" gods. Lot of background there. But D20 isn't my favorite system, nor do I feel that it's the easiest to learn. Especially preparing spells. I've read the section twice and am still hazy on why the hell they did it the way they did. I also don't really feel the little nasty surprises, like attacks of opportunity, will be too popular, especially since I've found they almost never end up working in the player's favor.
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So, what systems, settings, genres, or styles of play do you feel would be best for introducing a young girl to the world of role playing games? What ways would you change any of the existing systems to make them more accessible to a younger audience?
Then again, maybe this is a case of, "Yeah, but your scientists were so preoccupied with whether they could that they didn't stop to think if they should."
Thanks in advance!
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Awesome. I so hope that my kid will want to play RPGs... anywho...
Being partial to Shadowrun, I'd suggest you start her off in this world. Go easy on the massive universe and color it in as needed. Perhaps if she's partial to magic, then tone down the matrix stuff and vice versa. In a few years, you'll be able to have expanded on the entire game world perhaps.
Best of luck!
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I found an rpg called witch girls a little while ago ( you can find it on drivethrurpg). You might try that. It is relatively inexpensive and I think it would be great for you to try.
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First off, watch this video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5SI9nyFVS6Y&feature=colike). Yes, she's much younger than your sister, but there's some things you need to remember if you want this to "hook" her.
1) Do not worry about the rules. They can come later. Tell the story first and foremost.
2) As much as I love Shadowrun (and who doesn't), I would say start her with D&D first. She'll be able to process fighting orcs with swords or throwing a fireball at a dragon in a fantasy setting with a more black & white view of morality than the greyscale world of Shadowrun.
3) Start her off with easy to learn rules. I prefer Pathfinder and cannot stress how well-made the Beginner's Box is to introduce the game. Likewise, 4E has well-balanced and easy to learn rules that are perfect for a new player. No matter what you use, though, remember rule #1.
4) This is a game about imagination. Rule #1 is all about that. If you start up the game and lay out that a king is asking her character to slay a dragon and she responds to that with that she doesn't want to slay the dragon and thinks the king is evil, then work with that. Make the king dastardly, have her go and find the dragon and discover that it's being persecuted unjustly. The key thing to remember is to remain flexible. If you find yourself saying, "You can't do that!", she'll lose interest and the game turns into work.
Finally, 5) Have fun!
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ADnD and DnD3.5 are the best starters for any young kid. Lots of flashy heroic kiddie arcs are posdoble, but it's easy to go darker as needed. You can do it with Shadowrun too, though. Just be a young SINner dealing with less if the cutthroat stuff, and more with runs for friends and the local ice cream shop manager.
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Since she knows the Percy Jackson stuff, you could use Scion as well.
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I didnt think about White Wolf in my first post; if she liked any kind of anime, try Exalted.
Scion is horribly broken in my opinion. A close friend of mine worked on it and calls it an "unfinished, untested" game.
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Not broken, just don't try fighting a character or NPC that's built for combat if you're built for leadership, science, politics or any other non-combat activities.
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I would also recommend a one-shot with pre-made characters as a teaser of what is possible. Gives her the idea of what it's like to sit around the table, listen to one person do most of the talking and thinking about what you will be doing in response...
Also, if she's read any Dresden Files, there's the Fudge version of that setting
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I will suggest this no matter what system you go with. If whatever you pick has magic, psionics or anything else with special rules, don't let that be her first character. A new gamer's first character should be something simple. A Fighter in D&D or a cybered out Street Sam in SR for example.
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Thanks for the replies!
I do have one thing to point out, though. She's ten, but she's not stupid. Yeah, maybe she's not going to get all the nuance and flavor that I normally put into a game, but she'll still like all the the things you like. Killing dragons and becoming the all inquisitive ruler is a lot higher on her check list than gossiping about boys that don't exist.
Also, I can already predict that there's no way in hell I will be able to keep her away from magic if it's an option. Though she'll most likely want to do a spellsword type character...
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The problem with running is she has to learn about how dark the world is, d and d should be what shes playing for now and in that case take all the convoluted magic rules out.
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The problem with running is she has to learn about how dark the world is, d and d should be what shes playing for now and in that case take all the convoluted magic rules out.
This is all I was saying. No matter how smart someone is, it's generally the best idea for someone just getting their start in gaming to not play spellcasters. Now, that said, playing a wizard or sorceror in D&D 3.5 could still work, but would require a whole lot of guidance from you both in creation and in actual game play.
With Shadowrun, it could still work, but start slow and don't really go into the deep dark parts of the game until you think she's ready, and SR is a system where a new player (especially one new to gaming as a whole) really should not start with a mage or shaman, and definitely not a hacker since it can be even more complicated and convoluted than magic.
All that said, it's your game, so if you feel comfortable giving the necessary guidance for her to play the more complicated stuff, go for it, but my advice still stands because the simpler character types seem a bit better--in my opinion--for getting someone a good taste for gaming.
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My first d and d guy was a mage and my first shadowrun guy was a rigger I got soooo confused lol
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My first d and d guy was a mage and my first shadowrun guy was a rigger I got soooo confused lol
Ouch. Rigger for your first SR character? Damn, talk about jumping straight into the deep end of the pool right off the bat....
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He died first game in a pool of his own excrement :-[
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Could be worse. I had a guy jump into a Rifts Phase World game after it had run about a year. His first RPG character was a Kreeghor Ley Line Walker.
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*sighs*
So a character that's KoS throughout most of the Three Galaxies. That's definitely going for broke.
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Definitely ended up being a pro-Kreeghor party. Only way to not get geeked.
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She's ten, you need something...simpler than Shadowrun or DnD. I recommend Wu Shu Open, http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/WushuOpenRules (http://wiki.saberpunk.net/Wushu/WushuOpenRules). You're on your own for setting info I'm afraid, as there isn't really a WSO setting, just various rules. the GM is expected to take up that part.
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TBH Just find a mechanic system that you like and your comfortable with and build a setting with it that she will enjoy around it.
Way before i found out about shadowrun or even any other rpg other and ADnD, Me and my friend used the rules sets for 2nd ed to play way more than fantasy style games.
I had picked up the core books from a regular book store at the mall when i was a kid and there weren't any game stores local so i didn't even know other rpgs existed at the time. I can remember the name of it be we all saw this cheesy western in space movie with a lizard man with a ruby eyepatch and we just stripped the setting down and re worked some stuff to RP that style game with the old ADnD THAC0 system...
Like many others have said just make sure she gets its all about the story, and has fun. I have an 8 yo daughter who has been at games on and off sense she was born right now shes still about playing with dolls but im sure ill get her over to the dark side in a couple more years >:D
PS if anyone can remember the name of that movie pls let me know.. thats gonna kill me now :P
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You're wrong, Canti. Ten doesn't mean they're incapable of doing SR or D&D. Have you ever heard a kid rattle off the stats of their pokemon? How many kids can use their smartphones better than their parents can use their computers? Give them cheat sheets, and help them learn the system while you make the game interesting for them, and they'll learn. And they'll probably get the system faster than an adult would.
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Most games can be boiled down to simple actions on the part of players.
Why the reasons and math behind the game rules can get complex, the majority of in-game activities can be either roleplayed out, or expressed as "What do you want to do? Roll these dice."
Detailed mechanics can come later. Whatever the game, the key is to get her to start playing a role.
-k
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You're wrong, Canti. Ten doesn't mean they're incapable of doing SR or D&D. Have you ever heard a kid rattle off the stats of their pokemon? How many kids can use their smartphones better than their parents can use their computers? Give them cheat sheets, and help them learn the system while you make the game interesting for them, and they'll learn. And they'll probably get the system faster than an adult would.
Regardless of their intelligence and aptitude for math (which I wasn't even talking about), the simpler the rules of a system are, the quicker the player can learn them and get through CharGen to actually get to the Role playing part. And the less likely they'll get bored in the middle of CharGen, give up and go play videogames. Start with something simple to hook them in, then you start bringing out the more complex stuff, later.
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Bah. If you want to get someone involved in a game, you help them through chargen, or even give them pregens that they can play as they learn. Then, when they know a bit, you help them design their own character.
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Yeah, you never sit down with a new-to-RPGs player and just start going line by line through character creation.
Best thing to do at start is discuss the setting in non-rules terms. Where the game takes place, what kinda of people live there and what can they do, that sort of stuff.
Then ask what kind of character they want to try. Again, general non-rules-based discussion. Do they want to shoot guns? Do they want to be a good talker? Perhaps they might have some signature item or weapon they're known for?
Then you move on to the character's background. Where is he or she from? What family do they have? Social class? Significant events from their childhood? How do they tie into the setting?
By this time, they should either be engaged with the setting, or they don't like it and perhaps another game should be considered.
All this and we still haven't gotten into any rules yet.
Even when you get into the rules, there is no need to immediately go full-hog into the system. Nearly every modern roleplaying game has basic mechanics they revolve around. D&D like many RPGs has a "die roll plus modifiers versus a variable target number" primary mechanic. Shadowrun has dice pools against a static target number, and varies the number of successful rolls required it's main means of varying the difficulty. Other games compare die rolls to charts, or use poker cards instead of dice. And so on.
Some game systems are very complex when looked at in their entirety but even those, like just about every other game, can be boiled down to perhaps only half a dozen important mechanics that a player needs to regularly remember. Pretty much everything else is situational and can be ignored unless that specific situation comes up.
Even in character creation, you can generally simplify it down to "pick the main attributes, pick the main skills, get some gear and equipment, and you're good to go." Don't just have the player read through every skill and ability entry, use that discussion you had earlier to suggest a handful of selections based on what kind of character they were looking to make. There's no point in discussing ability set A too much if their expressed desire is to play a character that will probably best use ability set B.
Secondary stats and abilities can be left off til the player gets a better handle on game play, and it's advisable to allow the new player to adjust the character as they learn the system.
About the only game I can think of that can't easily be simplified down is perhaps Rolemaster and it's siblings. So many damn charts. Oh, and FATAL. Nobody should ever play that, no matter how experienced you are at gaming.
-k
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Yeah, you never sit down with a new-to-RPGs player and just start going line by line through character creation.
Best thing to do at start is discuss the setting in non-rules terms. Where the game takes place, what kinda of people live there and what can they do, that sort of stuff.
Then ask what kind of character they want to try. Again, general non-rules-based discussion. Do they want to shoot guns? Do they want to be a good talker? Perhaps they might have some signature item or weapon they're known for?
Then you move on to the character's background. Where is he or she from? What family do they have? Social class? Significant events from their childhood? How do they tie into the setting?
By this time, they should either be engaged with the setting, or they don't like it and perhaps another game should be considered.
All this and we still haven't gotten into any rules yet.
Even when you get into the rules, there is no need to immediately go full-hog into the system. Nearly every modern roleplaying game has basic mechanics they revolve around. D&D like many RPGs has a "die roll plus modifiers versus a variable target number" primary mechanic. Shadowrun has dice pools against a static target number, and varies the number of successful rolls required it's main means of varying the difficulty. Other games compare die rolls to charts, or use poker cards instead of dice. And so on.
Some game systems are very complex when looked at in their entirety but even those, like just about every other game, can be boiled down to perhaps only half a dozen important mechanics that a player needs to regularly remember. Pretty much everything else is situational and can be ignored unless that specific situation comes up.
Even in character creation, you can generally simplify it down to "pick the main attributes, pick the main skills, get some gear and equipment, and you're good to go." Don't just have the player read through every skill and ability entry, use that discussion you had earlier to suggest a handful of selections based on what kind of character they were looking to make. There's no point in discussing ability set A too much if their expressed desire is to play a character that will probably best use ability set B.
Secondary stats and abilities can be left off til the player gets a better handle on game play, and it's advisable to allow the new player to adjust the character as they learn the system.
About the only game I can think of that can't easily be simplified down is perhaps Rolemaster and it's siblings. So many damn charts. Oh, and FATAL. Nobody should ever play that, no matter how experienced you are at gaming.
-k
I'd like to add one to the list of "not for new gamers". I wouldn't advise starting a new gamer with any of the Palladium systems. I personally love Rifts as a game, but the system is definitely not for complete newbies to the hobby.
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The old Star Wars D6 system was what I suggested to new players. Now? I don't know. :(
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FATAL, known elsewhere on the net as "the Game Which Shall Not Be Named".
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*snip*
Best thing to do at start is discuss the setting in non-rules terms. Where the game takes place, what kinda of people live there and what can they do, that sort of stuff.
Then ask what kind of character they want to try. Again, general non-rules-based discussion. Do they want to shoot guns? Do they want to be a good talker? Perhaps they might have some signature item or weapon they're known for?
Then you move on to the character's background. Where is he or she from? What family do they have? Social class? Significant events from their childhood? How do they tie into the setting?
By this time, they should either be engaged with the setting, or they don't like it and perhaps another game should be considered.
All this and we still haven't gotten into any rules yet.
*snip*
This. Took the word right out of my mouth. Hell, I find myself doing this even with experienced players when introducing them to a new system. It's a hell of a lot easier to introduce the world than a string of numbers. :D