Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: JustADude on <04-15-12/0256:31>
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The Subject is pretty self-explanatory, here; running a new character build by everyone to see what gets shaken loose.
I have to follow some SPECIAL RULES (http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=6215.0) here, so please take that into account when judging the character. Also, I'm trying to make a guy that's not totally useless outside of a fight, but whose career and training have focused him strongly in that direction. The B&E and other Logic-based skills are going to be quickly boosted in play, and Cerebral Boosters are on my checklist, right after a few more essential things like proper Rating 4 "Muscle" bioware.
== Info ==
Street Name: Shade
Name: Alex Ohanzee
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 2
Public Awareness: 0
Ork (Ogre) Male Age 21
Height 1.78m Weight 106kg
Composure: 7
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 12 (90 kg/60 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 6
AGI: 4 (5)
REA: 2 (4)
STR: 5 (6)
CHA: 4
INT: 5
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 3
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 2.64
Initiative: 7 (9)
IP: 1 (2)
Matrix Initiative: 10
Matrix IP: 2
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Active Skills ==
Automatics : 4 Pool: 11
Blades : 4 Pool: 9
Chemistry : 1 Pool: 4
Climbing : 2 Pool: 8
Clubs : 4 Pool: 9
Con : 2 Pool: 10
Demolitions : 1 Pool: 4
Etiquette : 2 Pool: 10
Exotic Melee Weapon : 2 [Garrote] Pool: 7
Flight : 2 Pool: 8
Gymnastics : 2 Pool: 7
Hardware : 1 Pool: 4
Heavy Weapons : 2 Pool: 9
Infiltration : 5 [Urban] Pool: 10 (12)
Instruction : 1 Pool: 9
Intimidation : 1 [Interrogation] Pool: 10 (12)
Leadership : 2 Pool: 10
Leadership, Command : 2 Pool: 5
Leadership, Direct Fire : 2 Pool: 7
Locksmith : 1 Pool: 6
Longarms : 4 Pool: 11
Navigation : 2 Pool: 7
Negotiation : 2 Pool: 10
Perception : 3 [Visual] Pool: 8 (10)
Pilot Ground Craft : 2 [Wheeled] Pool: 6 (8)
Pistols : 4 Pool: 11
Running : 2 Pool: 8
Shadowing : 1 Pool: 6
Survival : 2 Pool: 5
Swimming : 2 Pool: 8
Throwing Weapons : 2 Pool: 7
Tracking : 2 Pool: 7
Unarmed Combat : 4 Pool: 9
== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Seattle : 2 Pool: 7
Bars and Clubs : 1 Pool: 6
Combat Tactics : 3 Pool: 6
English : N Pool: 0
Firearms : 2 Pool: 5
Gangs : 2 Pool: 7
Magical Threats : 2 Pool: 5
Military : 3 Pool: 8
Parazoology : 1 Pool: 4
Security Design : 3 Pool: 8
Security Tactics : 3 Pool: 6
Sioux : N Pool: 0
Underworld : 2 Pool: 7
== Contacts ==
First Nations Gang (1 (9), 2)
Frank "Noz" Denozo (2, 6)
Major David M. Broadway (3, 2) (ENEMY)
Ready Eddie (4, 1) (GM Freebie)
Richard "Slim" Barrow (6, 2)
== Qualities ==
Ambidextrous
Bilingual
Distinctive Style
Enemy
Hawk Eye
Low-Light Vision
Ogre Stomach
Records on File (UCAS Military)
Reduced Sense (Partial) (Smell)
SINner (Criminal) (UCAS: Alex Ohanzee)
Vendetta
== Lifestyles ==
Redmond Refuge 3 months
Comforts: Low
Entertainment: Middle
Necessities: Low
Neighborhood: Street
Security: High
Qualities: Concerned Neighbors [2LP]
Friendly Neighbors [1LP]
Hasty Exit [2LP]
Homegrown Farming [1LP]
Perfect Roommate [2LP]
Ambusher's Delight [-3LP]
Crash Pad [-1LP]
Living with Parents [-2LP]
Nosy Neighbors [-2LP]
Worse Neighbors [-1LP]
The Shack 100 months (technically 3 months due to the rules, but at 0¥ / month I can make it permanent pretty instantly ;))
Comforts: Low
Entertainment: Low
Necessities: Low
Neighborhood: Street
Security: High
Qualities: Dug a Hole [2LP]
Stocked Up [1LP]
Affiliated [-3LP]
Ambusher's Delight [-3LP]
Green Plan [-1LP]
Hell's Waiting Room [-2LP]
Loud Neighborhood [-1LP]
Network Bottleneck [-1LP]
Rough Neighborhood [-1LP]
The Building that Time Forgot [-1LP]
== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Commlink
Datajack
Muscle Augmentation Rating 1
Muscle Toner Rating 1
Reaction Enhancers Rating 1
Simrig
Wired Reflexes Rating 1
== Armor ==
Camouflage Suit 8/6
+Color Changing (Camo) (Off-label use of mod OK'ed by GM to change the camo pattern to match the location)
Death Mask ("War-Mask") 0/1
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
SecureTech Forearm Guards 0/1
SecureTech Shin Guards 0/1
== Weapons ==
Ares Viper Slivergun
+Concealable Holster
+Smartgun System, External
+Improved Range Finder
+Personalized Grip
+Skinlink
+Sound Suppressor
DV: 8P(f) AP: +5 RC: 2
Ares Viper Slivergun
+Concealable Holster
+Smartgun System, External
+Improved Range Finder
+Personalized Grip
+Skinlink
+Sound Suppressor
DV: 8P(f) AP: +5 RC: 2
AVC-7.62
+Blade Bayonet
+Gyro Stabilization
+Shock Pad
+Smartgun System, External
+Skinlink
DV: 7P AP: -1 RC: 9
Ceramic Knife
+Personalized Grip
DV: 4P AP: - RC: 2
Defiance EX Shocker
+Hidden Gun Arm Slide
+Personalized Grip
+Skinlink
+Smartgun System
DV: 8S(e) AP: -half RC: 2
Defiance EX Shocker
+Hidden Gun Arm Slide
+Personalized Grip
+Skinlink
+Smartgun System
DV: 8S(e) AP: -half RC: 2
Grenade: Flash-Bang
DV: 6S (10m Radius) AP: -3 RC: 0
Grenade: Gas
DV: Chemical (10m Radius) AP: - RC: 0
Grenade: Thermal Smoke
DV: (10m Radius) AP: - RC: 0
Unarmed Attack
DV: 3S AP: - RC: 0
== Martial Arts ==
Escrima
++1 die on Called Shots to disarm
+inflict dmage when making Called Shot to disarm
Krav Maga
++1 die on Called Shots to disarm
+Ready Weapon as Free Action
Finishing Move
Riposte
Two Weapon Style
== Commlink ==
Meta Link (1, 1, 1, 2)
+Vector Xim
Singularity Battle Buddy Basic (5, 6, 6, 5) (Implanted)
+Custom Placeholder (Matrix Programs) [Analyze 6, Browse 6, Command 6, Edit 6, Encrypt 6, Purge 6, Scan 6] (all Optimized to 5)
+Custom Placeholder (Hacking Programs)
+Custom Placeholder (Other Programs) [Empathy Software 4]
== Gear ==
Ammo: Flechette Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x120
Ammo: Regular Ammo (Battle Rifles) x60
Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Battle Rifles) x60
Ammo: Taser Dart (Tasers) x16
Contact Lenses Rating 2
+Skinlink
+Vision Magnification
Earbuds Rating 2
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
+Spatial Recognizer
+Skinlink
Fake License (AVC-7.62 - Modified) Rating 2
Fake License (Cybernetic Combat Enhancement) Rating 2
Fake License (Industrial Chemical Agents) Rating 2
Fake License (Nonlethal Combat Ordinance) Rating 2
Fake License (Personal Firearms) Rating 2
Fake License (Sliverguns) Rating 2
Fake SIN (Tony Avanaco) Rating 2
Glasses Rating 3
+Image Link
+Smartlink
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Skinlink
Grenade: Flash-Bang x2
+Grenade Plugin: Gecko
Grenade: Gas x2 (Aerosolized solvent. Need to check with GM on if it would do Stun or Physical before deciding how to use.)
+Adhesive Solvent Rating 6
+Grenade Plugin: Gecko
Grenade: Thermal Smoke x2
+Grenade Plugin: Gecko
Medkit Rating 6
Plastic Restraints x100
== Vehicles ==
Suzuki Mirage (Racing Bike)
+Clean Car Coating
+Engine Customization, Acceleration
+Manual Control Override, Drive-by-Wire
+Morphing License Plate
+Run Flat Tires Rating 2
+Smuggling Compartment, Normal
+Spoof Chip
+Vehicle Sensor
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Initial thoughts;
Crash's rules seem to say 2 skills at 4, not 2 skill groups at 4 - just checking that one.
I'd personally rejig the stats so that my Str and Bod ended in uneven numbers; Str and Int down one level each is Bod and Rea up one level each, and I'd think about doing that.
Would swap out Chemistry for First Aid. Makes more sense for a soldier, and is more useful.
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Initial thoughts;
Crash's rules seem to say 2 skills at 4, not 2 skill groups at 4 - just checking that one.
I'd personally rejig the stats so that my Str and Bod ended in uneven numbers; Str and Int down one level each is Bod and Rea up one level each, and I'd think about doing that.
Would swap out Chemistry for First Aid. Makes more sense for a soldier, and is more useful.
I asked him in person (we know each other IRL) before I posted this up, and he said the skill-groups were cool.
Also, the Body thing is because one of my first purchases, right after Muscle Toner 4, is going to be a Suprathyroid gland, which gives +1 body... that way I end up at an odd number. Strength is mostly set at 6 because that's the minimum for the extra Recoil Comp so I can use BF on the Sliverguns without penalties.
Reaction is set the way it is because Shade was, up until recently, doped up with some seriously military-grade hardware. I figure his "natural" reflexes would have atrophied since he's spent years implanted with maxed out IP enhancement. Ditto for his Agility rating being the way it is.
Also, unless you have your First Aid all the way up at 6 you're better served rolling off the Medkit's rating... and that just reminded me I forgot to get one. Added now.
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The medkit issue is really just a missions thing. The advanced medtech rules have a section for using the kits rating to determine the number of boxes you can heal, rather than your skill rating, it's just optional and Missions doesn't use it.
Without DMSO, I'd probably have the solvent deal stun damage initially with either Disorientation or Nausea depending on how ventilated the area is. At that high of grade, it's still fairly lethal (average person is unconscious in around six seconds and in overflow in 12 seconds. If I might suggest, an internal airtank is dirt cheap and very useful for someone who is dealing with these things. With a professional license for use of the grenades, it really wouldn't be any stretch to explain either.
I don't really see anything out of place. You don't have to worry about Karma Efficiency since it's a karma build. The only advice I have is to remember that since it's not missions you can take second hand ware. Especially since you're pretty intent on replacing a lot of it with higher grades fairly soon. For example, you're spending 15k on muscle replacements (Augmentation and Toner), which is six karma. Second hand would cut that down to only 7.5k and 3 karma for a measly 20% essence increase (.08). Of course you could go the even cheaper route and take straight up Muscle Replacement for 2 karma and a .6 increase (or second hand for a .8 increase, but only 1 karma). Just seemed like there were other things you still wanted to spend karma on and that's a fairly easy way to go about saving some.
As for Chummer, it doesn't cap off social skills right (positive dice pool modifiers for social modifiers are capped at a max of natural attribute + skill). The only one that would be affected is intimidation (specialties are dice pool modifiers), so that might affect your specialty decision there.
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My main comments are:
You have a lot of skills/qualities that you aren't really using. For example, you are Ambidextrous, but not taking full advantage of it. You have a metric shitload of different ways to roll Agility+Skill to inflict damage, but you're only actually prepped to use a handful of them. I would either cut way back on the redundant skills, or get better use of them.
Specifically, right now you have
Automatics 4
Pistols 4
Longarms 4
Throwing Weapons 2
Heavy Weapons 2
Unarmed 4
Blades 4
Clubs 4
Exotic Melee Weapon (Garrotte) 2
But what you actually own is a few pistols, one automatic, a bayonet, a knife, and some grenades you can throw.
You also don't have Palming so you can't actually hide a lot of the small weapons you have very well.
My first choice would be to cut way, way back on the weapon skills. Probably down to Firearms 4 (since Crash is being nice enough to count that as one "skill," and you aren't losing a skill at 6 for it) and Blades, and then carry proper gear for those skills, light the rest on fire (maybe Throwing 1 so you can throw grenades, but the way they work defaulting isn't really hurting you because it's all about the totally random scatter roll anyways). Then have better skills elsewhere, like Palming so you can actually get your money's worth out of concealable weapons, First Aid, and maybe some just bump up other useful skills here and there.
If you really and truly want that many weapon skills, I'd at least make sure you have ways to use those skills - meaning carrying the better weapons of each type, so that you at least benefit from always having the best weapon for any given situation.
Crash is also 100% right about the secondhand ware. If you're going to get ripperware, get cheap ripperware.
I am not a big fan of implanting simrigs, commlinks (except maybe in cyberlimbs), datajacks, or other 'just carry it' stuff, but if you really want it I'm not going to argue with you.
For your other gear, though, you have 2.64 spare essence, and you spent 2.2 cyber and .4 bio, and 36000 on it. You can do a lot better, and then rip out the crap and replace it with nicer stuff later, if you want to cheap out. I'd go with this:
Secondhand Wired 1 (5.5k)
Secondhand Muscle Replacement 1 (2.5k)
Secondhand Reaction Enhancer 1 (5k)
That leaves you with less "spare" essence, but is way cheaper. Then use that extra money to buy more long-term-investment type stuff, like better gear, or 'ware you won't want to rip out and replace later like Alphaware Reflex Recorders for your key skills, maybe generate.
Edited for derp, forgot the low availability cap.
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Crash, thanks for the tip on the Medkit rules. I'll definitely swap out to mostly Second Hand 'ware and make room for First Aid (specialty Combat Injuries). And, just to confirm, that means with a Rating 6 Medkit, Logic 3, First Aid 3, and a Combat Trauma specialty, I'd be rolling 14 dice on First Aid and could heal up to 6 boxes if I managed to roll that high, right?
Also, a Death Mask counts as a Gas Mask according to its writeup in Attitude, which makes me immune to Inhalation Vector toxins the same way an Internal Airtank would, which is why I went that route for armor.
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UmaroVI, the Defiance EX tasers are listed as having prongs for melee use (hence Personalized Grip on a Single-Shot weapon) which would use Clubs, and Crash has ruled that the melee attacks don't take ammo, so those are going to be my goto weapons for a heads-up melee fight. I'm also planning to quickly pick up a Barrett 121 ad a few other over-availability goodies to make use of the two skill-groups.
You're definitely right about a lot of the other stuff, though. I'm dropping Throwing to 1 (keeping it for fluff, mostly; soldiers get taught to throw grenades in Basic Training) and shuffling things around to afford Palming 3 with the "Legerdemain" specialty (I assume that's the one that would cover hiding weapons), and nixing Garrote in favor of using standard Unarmed Combat choke-outs (followed by a slit throat if I want them dead) since I'm going to end up with plenty of Strength to get the job done pretty fast anyway.
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Alright, let me suggest a few weapons selection changes then.
I'd have a second ceramic knife for dual-wielding when you need to use ceramic weapons.
The AVC is an inferior battle rifle, but the better one (the HVBR) is over 8, so you should probably replace it when you can. I note you have accessories only on it, which is good, but the HVBR can't use a gyromount. I'm not sure if you were planning to swap out and didn't realize that or not. You can actually just barely get a fully-compensated HVBR: Firing Selection Change Full Auto [1], Underbarrel Weight mod [2], Personalized Grip [1], Gas-Vent 3 mod [2], shockpad, and you have 4 (base)+1(weight)+1(grip)+3 (gas vent) + 1 (shockpad)+1 (strength)=11. This is just straight-up better than the AVC, and for that reason you might want to not have the gyromount, and just take accessories you can swap over like the external smartlink, bayonet, and shock pad.
With dual-wield, you can get yourself some nice setups with dual automatic weapons and you should probably have that. The HVBR can already do fully compensated HV fire, it's just large and not subtle, so you probably want machine pistols so you have a more concealable option. The B&P MP-9 comes with 1 magic and 1 foregrip, slap on Gas-Vent 3, High Velocity, Personalized Grip, Barrel Reduction, and then tear out the foregrip so it's more concealable, and you can fire long burst/long burst alternations out of a reasonably concealable package (Chameleon Coating is 10R, so get that later).
Longarms is a two-trick pony, if you're going to know it, you may as well use the two tricks, although sadly neither are available at chargen. One is of course the Barrett, which is the best silenceable sniping weapon, and the other is the Auto-Assault 16, which has a narrow but amusing niche of being modded for HV and then combining HV multiple targets fire with wide choke to shred groups of lightly armored targets.
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Good point on the second knife. Done.
Also, nice build with the HVBR, but I was planning on putting a Suppressor and Chameleon Coat on the AVC so it can function both as a "party" gun and as my marksmanship rifle until I can get my Barrett. After I get that, though, I'll probably sell off the AVC and buy an HVBR modded like you suggest for a dedicated "party time" weapon.
And very nasty trick with the AA-16. You end up catching 3 targets with a base of DV 16 AP +9, and they get a -4 to defend, right? And with AP Flechettes that would turn to DV 16 AP +4?
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Also, Crash, two questions about the solvent grenades:
1) Would mixing them with DMSO would turn them to Physical Damage as well as Contact vector, since it's chewing you up all over all at once?
2) How well would a solvent grenade work for ruining trace evidence (such as blood splatter and fingerprints) for the cops?
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Probably a silly question, but where do i find AP Flechettes? Have I been blind all theses years or are they just named differently in german?
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Probably a silly question, but where do i find AP Flechettes? Have I been blind all theses years or are they just named differently in german?
They're hanging out in War!. It's commonly assumed that they work wherever flechettes are used.
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Ah... the one book I haven't properly read.
But from what I've heard so far, it seems to be a bigger, better, faster book. Not sure if I like it.
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Also, nice build with the HVBR, but I was planning on putting a Suppressor and Chameleon Coat on the AVC so it can function both as a "party" gun and as my marksmanship rifle until I can get my Barrett. After I get that, though, I'll probably sell off the AVC and buy an HVBR modded like you suggest for a dedicated "party time" weapon.
I'm not sure that's worth it - the Barrett is only 9000, and you're paying nearly that much for Chameleon Coat and Gyrostabilizer.
And very nasty trick with the AA-16. You end up catching 3 targets with a base of DV 16 AP +9, and they get a -4 to defend, right? And with AP Flechettes that would turn to DV 16 AP +4?
Better than that, actually. HV weapons can use FA to hit 4 close-by targets with short bursts instead of the "normal" full burst. Choke wide lets each shot hit 3 targets. So if you have 4 people near each other, you shoot each of them with a FA short burst, and use Choke to spread it onto two of their friends, resulting in all of them getting shot 3 times. Now, each shot is not that great DV: 7P/+8, -4 to defend (including all the modifiers), but you shoot each of them three times. Sufficiently armored people might be able to shrug this off, but lightly armored gangers, paracritters (especially good with this - a lot of them are glass cannons like whoa), and the like are going to get shredded. You can also hit in theory 12 people once, which might be handy against stuff like a pack of devil rats or a mob.
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Also, nice build with the HVBR, but I was planning on putting a Suppressor and Chameleon Coat on the AVC so it can function both as a "party" gun and as my marksmanship rifle until I can get my Barrett. After I get that, though, I'll probably sell off the AVC and buy an HVBR modded like you suggest for a dedicated "party time" weapon.
I'm not sure that's worth it - the Barrett is only 9000, and you're paying nearly that much for Chameleon Coat and Gyrostabilizer.
And very nasty trick with the AA-16. You end up catching 3 targets with a base of DV 16 AP +9, and they get a -4 to defend, right? And with AP Flechettes that would turn to DV 16 AP +4?
Better than that, actually. HV weapons can use FA to hit 4 close-by targets with short bursts instead of the "normal" full burst. Choke wide lets each shot hit 3 targets. So if you have 4 people near each other, you shoot each of them with a FA short burst, and use Choke to spread it onto two of their friends, resulting in all of them getting shot 3 times. Now, each shot is not that great DV: 7P/+8, -4 to defend (including all the modifiers), but you shoot each of them three times. Sufficiently armored people might be able to shrug this off, but lightly armored gangers, paracritters (especially good with this - a lot of them are glass cannons like whoa), and the like are going to get shredded. You can also hit in theory 12 people once, which might be handy against stuff like a pack of devil rats or a mob.
Okay, that's definitely nasty. Very, very definitely nasty... and good point on the Barrett; forgot how cheap it was when I was focusing on the Availability.
Also, going back to the B&Ps... why bother with High Velocity, since you can use a Long Burst from each hand with the different weapons anyway?
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Also, Crash, two questions about the solvent grenades:
1) Would mixing them with DMSO would turn them to Physical Damage as well as Contact vector, since it's chewing you up all over all at once?
2) How well would a solvent grenade work for ruining trace evidence (such as blood splatter and fingerprints) for the cops?
1.) Yes, and definitely either Nausea or Paralysis for exposure. Solvents have a tendency to cause issues with the central nervous system at high vapor concentrations. I can only imagine absorbing it would be even worse.
2.) A very significant penalty that will be an FU to local police and probably a mild speedbump for AAA or Homeland Security.
Remember, chemical attacks tend to spark extreme responses from the authorities.
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Also, Crash, two questions about the solvent grenades:
1) Would mixing them with DMSO would turn them to Physical Damage as well as Contact vector, since it's chewing you up all over all at once?
2) How well would a solvent grenade work for ruining trace evidence (such as blood splatter and fingerprints) for the cops?
1.) Yes, and definitely either Nausea or Paralysis for exposure. Solvents have a tendency to cause issues with the central nervous system at high vapor concentrations. I can only imagine absorbing it would be even worse.
2.) A very significant penalty that will be an FU to local police and probably a mild speedbump for AAA or Homeland Security.
Remember, chemical attacks tend to spark extreme responses from the authorities.
True enough for the DMSO-laced "War Crime" version. No arguments there.
I feel compelled to point out, though, that the "Geneva Friendly" version is no more powerful than several "nonlethal" agents from the book, such as Neuro-Stun (Power 10), CS Gas (power 6), and Pepper Punch (Power 7) that do the same thing (including the Disorientation/Nausea). The solvents have more Penetration, sure, but with the standard 3:1 ratio for +Dmg vs -Resist that puts it at only 1 "net" point higher than Pepper Punch and two points lower than Neuro-Stun.
They're not gonna get too riled up because someone used a home-brew Tear Gas bomb, are they?
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Also, going back to the B&Ps... why bother with High Velocity, since you can use a Long Burst from each hand with the different weapons anyway?
You actually can't: SR4A 154 limits you to one long burst per Action Phase, not per gun per Action Phase. HV removes this limitation. Debatably, you can do this with one HV gun and one non-HV gun but I'm not sure about that one.
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Arsenal removes that limitation when dual wielding. You can fire a long burst with each gun. Anything short of a full burst can be done with each gun (basically anything that is a simple action, but the guns must be SMG size or smaller).
As to the tear gas, depends on where you use it and who you use it on. I've seen some crazy responses to things nowhere near as potent.
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Crash, are you looking at Arsenal 163? That's for firing two weapons at the same time, ie, pool splitting. I was talking about alternating fire, ie, long with one as the first simple action, long with the other as the second simple action.
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Something to chew on; I have a house rule for former military characters: the military skill group. It involves Physical Fitness, proficiency in one AR and pistol (the issue weapons of your military) and a skill of your choice that was your specialty (MOS). The physical fitness is generally used in situations resembling ruck-marching, pulling up onto things, etc. and the MOS stuff is commo, first aid, infantry, etc. Just a thought.
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Following those rules, you can do the following (assuming a character using a FA weapon in each hand):
1st Simple Action: Fire a Long Burst with gun A and short burst with gun B.
2nd Simple Action: Fire a short burst with gun A and Long Burst with gun B.
The implication is heavily there that the restriction is per gun rather than character.
On another note, shotguns can't take High Velocity modification (it's limited to SMGs and ARs).
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Right, but that still results in you splitting your pool. Which you may want to do, but if you did want to do it, you'd be better off doing long/long+long/long with HV weapons.
You can't construct weapons as HV other than SMGs and ARs, ie, there shouldn't be base weapons that have inherent HV other than that, but the mod has different requirements (full auto capable only).
If HV is houseruled to also only be moddable onto SMGs and ARs, then I recommend Ares Executive Protectors (which are, sadly, 9F and thus unavailable to start) for the HV dual-wielding, so that you can murder people with briefcases. It's still probably worth owning non-HV B&Ps so that you can shove them up your anus, though, for times when people are actually going to check that your briefcase contains papers and not bullets. It does make the shotgun go back to shitty and you should just use a HVBR for those kinds of problems.
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You can't construct weapons as HV other than SMGs and ARs, ie, there shouldn't be base weapons that have inherent HV other than that, but the mod has different requirements (full auto capable only).
There are no construction rules in SR4/SR4A. The modification specifically references the sidebar that states it's AR and SMG only. Yes it has to be Full Auto, but it also has to be an SMG or AR (or BR since they can accept whatever ARs can). It's not a house rule, it's a basic interpretation of what the rules state. Constructed is fairly blatantly a reference to the modification unless there are some official construction rules hidden somewhere.
Right, but that still results in you splitting your pool. Which you may want to do, but if you did want to do it, you'd be better off doing long/long+long/long with HV weapons.
The point is that it blatantly puts the precedent that long burst isn't per character per weapon. Trying to claim you can only do it while firing a weapon in the other hand is literally akin to saying: You can only hold trigger A if you hold trigger B too, which is quite silly when you think about it.
As for splitting pool. Under the worst interpretation possible (that you have to fire both), you can just split one die into the non-long burst hand and keep the rest in your main pool, and not have to worry about spending slots on HV.
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You're saying the firearm rules are odd and incomplete? Well I never! There are rules for miniguns saying only certain weapons can be constructed as miniguns, but no rules for modding minigun on. What does that refer to? Presumably, there were high hopes of a system for making your own gun from scratch that never materialized.
Splitting your fire like that also costs you your smartgun bonus, so that's another 2 dice. You should definitely not do that, because you're essentially trading long/short for long/long with -3 to hit on both, which is bad.
Under those house interpretations, don't bother with SMGs. Or B&Ps, actually, since there's no need to use a F weapon to eke out a bit more RC when you don't need slots for HV. Use Ares Crusaders (more ammo, cheaper, and R), slap on Underbarrel Weight, Firing Selection Change (Full Auto), Rigid Stock accessory, Personalized Grip, and Barrel Reduction, then get Chameleon Coating later.
That also makes shotguns go from "niche" to "fuck it," if you need to kill multiple people, just use HV fire from your battle rifle.
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Oh, for all those people who say that Karmagen is somehow inherently worse than BPgen, I'd just like to put up a little tidbit I discovered:
I was converting the character from Chummer over to Hero Lab after I'd finished all the last little tweaks, since Hero Lab doesn't yet have functional Karmagen, and, using BPgen pricing, Shade's build would take well over 500 BP... and that's not even counting the 28 extra Karma I had to pay for my contacts because of Crash's custom pricing.
Yeah he's not rolling an obscene amount of dice in any one thing, but he's got his fingers in a lot of pies to the tune of 10 dice or so.
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Well to be fair, I did hand out 18 karma free for contacts and knowledge skills like the BP system. The gripe most people have is that completely optimized characters (as in specialized to roll twenty dice in one thing) cost more resources in karma gen to a degree.
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Oh, for all those people who say that Karmagen is somehow inherently worse than BPgen, I'd just like to put up a little tidbit I discovered:
I was converting the character from Chummer over to Hero Lab after I'd finished all the last little tweaks, since Hero Lab doesn't yet have functional Karmagen, and, using BPgen pricing, Shade's build would take well over 500 BP... and that's not even counting the 28 extra Karma I had to pay for my contacts because of Crash's custom pricing.
Yeah he's not rolling an obscene amount of dice in any one thing, but he's got his fingers in a lot of pies to the tune of 10 dice or so.
As was said, you were under a LOT of house rules. With no house rules, then it is an inferior system. The only thing that wouldn't actually be a house rule outside or Europe would be the attribute costs being x5 since that is standard in the most recent core rule book, however without other changes being in there (such as the free knowledge skills which would probably equate in the hundreds of karma and removing Edge and Magic from the half-point cap--also house rule) it remains utterly worthless and garbage.
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As was said, you were under a LOT of house rules. With no house rules, then it is an inferior system. The only thing that wouldn't actually be a house rule outside or Europe would be the attribute costs being x5 since that is standard in the most recent core rule book, however without other changes being in there (such as the free knowledge skills which would probably equate in the hundreds of karma and removing Edge and Magic from the half-point cap--also house rule) it remains utterly worthless and garbage.
Disbelief of the German Version aside, the Karma skills are roughly 52 karma and his attributes do fall under the half + 2xMeta cost limit. In addition, the metavariant cost was paid for in karma (part of the german rule that makes it worse). A general understanding of what resources are worth is all that is needed for a simple deduction of the Karma System. In the end, the extra points given and the extra points cost from my house rules and german version roughly equaled out. A poorly optimized 500 point character under the karma system.
Of course, it's because generalists are penalized by the BP system. Horribly so.
In the end, the two systems are basically like carrying around dollars or quarters. Sure dollars are easier. You're going to get out the door faster, but if no change is offered, you're going to be wasting some money. Quarters, there is a lot less waste and you can buy the same things. It just takes longer and you have to wait for people to count (and recount if they can't get it).