Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Moral Wiz on <04-16-12/1921:19>
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Ok, firstly, hello all. :) Long time SR fan, fist time poster, and I've got a question I can't find an answer to in my books
I've got a concept for a character, a paranormal in Seattle who got trapped there through loss of her SIN. But... is that possible? On the surface, it looks like it might be worth the time of some thugs to mug someone for their commlink and account, (plus paras aren't good with tech as a rule) but there are two issues between this and what I was thinking
1; Would the muggers be able to flat out change the SiN? If you could alter an existing SiN so it registers for you, it'd be easier than creating a SiN from scratch, no?
2;; Could someone loosing their commlink just head to an embassy and say 'Hey, I've lost my SIN, can I have it reissued?'
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It's called Identity Theft. Basically, that's what getting a fake SIN is.
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Hmm... Ok. That works nicely. (and fits with what I had in mind) :) Thanks for the prompt reply.!
But Question 2? Or is that covered by question 1? (The authorities just ignore you)
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That is an excellent question, your commlink broadcasts your SIN so at least some of the information has to be on it. I honestly don't know about getting one reissued. Good luck even making it to the embassy without a a SIN.
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@Angelone; It might just be me, but your first words made me think of Ask That Guy's catchphrase. :) That's a compliment, at least IMO.
Thanks for the compliment. :) It's an interesting point to me, and; the books are a little contradictory on how harsh the authorities are about SINs in public areas, but getting into an Embassy, even officially, is never easy. I can see it being a battle for someone SiNless, especially a Parahuman. (Pixie, FTR, so the only Embassy she can go with is the French... and there isn't one in Seattle ;))
Still, it's an interesting point. If your SiN is stolen, and then 'Updated', can the thief just get away with anything under that SiN? I guess with a commlink and an established life in the area, you could lodge a complaint with more local authorities. In Seattle, either your local Corp office, KE, or the Metroplex Administration. If gone for a while, someone in another country could do so on your behalf. But if you're a traveller, with no known relatives.. (and a meta/para, and thus going to find it hard to deal with the authorities)
Plus, with no commlink, you have no money, and can not get a commlink to contact others, correct? ;) (At least, not easily)
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Yes, No commlink no money unless you happen to have some cash on you which the mugger(s) didn't take for some reason.
The more I think about it the scarier it gets, your entire life on something about the size of a smartphone. Your car, your apartment, you ID, all your information, and your most reliable way of getting help, gone all of it, just like that.
Without that little magic box you basically don't exist. If and when you finally get to help they laugh at you and call you a liar because "you" are in a McHugh's and just ordered a number 8.
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Considering how easy people lose things I'd be inclined to believe there's a way in the world of Shadowrun to get that data back in relative short order.
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Without that little magic box you basically don't exist. If and when you finally get to help they laugh at you and call you a liar because "you" are in a McHugh's and just ordered a number 8.
Considering how easy people lose things I'd be inclined to believe there's a way in the world of Shadowrun to get that data back in relative short order.
Actually, I've always understood that a SIN is more like your Social Security Number + Driver's License.
You have the number, itself, accompanied with the digital equivalent of a photo ID that provides some degree of veracity. Most places wouldn't even bother checking that, though, any more than most places bother to look at your ID for a credit card these days.
There are, however, digital records that exist elsewhere to verify or discredit everything the SIN claims. Until/unless you start hacking those files you don't even have a Rating 1 Fake SIN, just a stolen ID and creditcard that can be nullified as soon as the proper owner files a complaint, and which will throw up big red flags as soon as someone checks them in any way.
Since forging a Fake SIN is (Rating x 32, 1 week), there's a very good chance the victim would still show up as the owner of the SIN either via reciting the number from memory and the officer running a check, or via "forensic" biometric scans to identify them... something even Lone Star would do for a SINless Non-Metahuman Sapient, if only to check for Wants & Warrants.
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1. Paranormals are rare. Paranormals being issued SINs is rare on the order of Act of Congress rare.
2. IRL when someone steals a credit card in some areas, they will 'clean the card' by whacking the owner so that they know he won't call it in as stolen.
The easy explanation is that you're a SINner foreign citizen whose SIN and passport has been confiscated. The Vory actually use this when they bring in prostitutes. They'll say they've got nice jobs as secretaries and such here, but when they bring the girls over, they have pictures of the girl's family saying that they will be killed if they don't go along, then confiscate the passports and put them to work on the streets.
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*nods* I know hacking a SiN is hard, but it's definitely doable, and probably easier than grabbing a SiN from scratch. After all, one of the problems with forging a SiN is the lack of full records and activity within the system. If you're editing an existing SiN, it gets a lot easier.
(Hells, you could probably do a good deal of it officially. Change of name is one point, leaving the only things that need hacking being the metatype and biometrics. And with augmentation and surgery....)
As to regular methods of getting a SiN back, remember, most people have a personal Node at home that probably also has a copy of their SiN stored in it. Failing that, I'm guessing it's something similar to loosing your passport; report it to the authorities, and eventually, they'll issue you a new copy. That system can become unviable, but only if the person has no home, and no matrix using family. Who in this day and age doesn't have family or friends on the Matrix?
@CitizenJoe; Hmm... Confiscation doesn't quite work with my planned concept, and remember, Para communities are isolated and hard to track down/threaten, but thanks for the thought :) I have the other two points down though. Yeah, foreign national, French to be precise. As to getting whacked; that's what a professional would do. Some punk kid who thought he had done so by knocking her out? ;)
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I cannot imagine that in 2072, one's SIN is not tied to their DNA, making a permanent hacking of it almost impossible. It would be possible to do it short-term of course, and creating fake SIN's is easy enough. But assuming the identity thief does anything more significant with the ID than buy a Shakey Shake at a Stuffer Shack (such as buy a car, or if he gets arrested), he's going to have to give a DNA sample to connect his person with the SIN he's offering. That act will cause him some problems when his DNA doesn't match what's on file from other verified databases (because only having the info in a single location to check would be idiotic).
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Remember, Genetweaking is now possible, so a character's DNA is not unchangeable. I'd imagine that after such surgery, the clinic would have to file the character's changed genetic signature with the SiN database. How much bribery would be needed to have the doctor submit information for surgery that never took place? Ghost surgery, if you will.
Just throwing around the idea here, but I think it seems viable. :)
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Remember, Genetweaking is now possible, so a character's DNA is not unchangeable. I'd imagine that after such surgery, the clinic would have to file the character's changed genetic signature with the SiN database. How much bribery would be needed to have the doctor submit information for surgery that never took place? Ghost surgery, if you will.
Just throwing around the idea here, but I think it seems viable. :)
Oh yeah, it's quite possible.
The problem, as far as the subject at hand, is that all those procedures would still take weeks to do, and they'd have to keep the OP's character from reporting the issue for at least that long and still have the character survive.
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Hmm... Point, but still possible, I think, especially if this happens in Seattle. I'm going to guess that for an issue like 'I lost my SiN, you'd need to contact either your embassy, or your city's Security Corps. KE have access to the SiN database, and might be able to deal with this, given time... theoretically. But they're overworked, it's only borderline their jurisdiction (more like something for GOD, as the SiNer could be long gone) and whoever acted on it would have to essentially take your word for it that you are this person. And when you're not only SINless, but a SINless Para? I can see it taking a month to get a meeting over this. Sure, if you're a Corp citizen, you could go to management and it'd happen almost immediately, but if you're not... ;)
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If someone steals your credstick, which has your SIN, Licenses, Passport, etc. Or in 2072 your commlink, although at the price of commlinks I can't imagine the average citizen affording one. Another option is an RFID tag embedded in your hand, which they are doing now and have been doing with pets for over a decade now. What was I saying? Oh ya, if someone steals your credstick or commlink, they would only get as far as the public permissions on those items. You need a password to get access to more of the data. Depending on the grade of credstick, that could be thumb print, retinal print or even DNA print. DNA testing isn't cheap so it would only be there for the really high rollers. Retinal scanners aren't cheap either, but they don't cost on a per use basis. Retinal level SINs/credsticks are for corporate and military high ranking officers. They aren't typically useful to people doing their daily business. Voice print checking you'll see in sensitive areas. Thumb print testing is about as far as you'll see normally. I would guess that anyone with a gun permit has this as well as a full hand print on file, plus the ballistics profiles. If it were me, Criminal SINs would be at this level of security as well. Last is a passcode security.
It is exceedingly easy to go to the police department and report the credstick/commlink stolen.
Victim: "My name is <X>. I just got mugged and someone stole my credstick/commlink. Here's my thumb print for verification."
Desk Sergeant : "Thank you <X>. We'll get a detective on this right away. Please have a seat in the waiting room and fill out our questionare."
--- couple hours pass...
Beat cop shows up with a bloody credstick. "I believe this is yours. Sign here and we can wrap up this case right now, or I'll have to hold it as evidence if you want to press charges..."
It is exactly because of that that people will hand over credsticks rather than risk a beating. It is also because of that that people get robbed for jewelry and not their credsticks. In order to 'steal' a SIN, the rightful owner can't be allowed to report it.
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Erm... Hacking a civvy's commlink is definetly possible; Identity Theft came up in Unwired, and was described as pretty easy for short term stuff. They don't go into the logistics of something like this, but getting access to a SiN and using it remotely through the Matrix as a form of ID is definetly shown as possible
So, IMO, the question shifts from 'if' to 'how'. For instance, if you have your fake doc lined up, and ready to give their report as soon as you have the original SIN, then the crime can happen at the speed of a Matrix connection. Faster than anyone could run to KE.
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Erm... Hacking a civvy's commlink is definetly possible; Identity Theft came up in Unwired, and was described as pretty easy for short term stuff. They don't go into the logistics of something like this, but getting access to a SiN and using it remotely through the Matrix as a form of ID is definetly shown as possible
So, IMO, the question shifts from 'if' to 'how'. For instance, if you have your fake doc lined up, and ready to give their report as soon as you have the original SIN, then the crime can happen at the speed of a Matrix connection. Faster than anyone could run to KE.
Notice "short term stuff". Eventually you're gonna get found out and burned once the person sees the anomalous activity. It's a pain to fix, yeah, but so is modern Identity Theft. Doesn't mean you're perma-screwed.
Besides, they're not going to just instantly toss all the previous records of the SINner's "old" DNA, just like they keep a record pointing back to your Birth Name after you've legally changed it... and that's not even counting the metric ass-ton of other data that would need to be changed in GOD-only-knows how many other databases to "lock out" the original SINner.
Plus, c'mon, cops aren't stupid. If someone shows up reporting that they've been mugged and their ID stolen right after such a change is filed they're gonna smell a rat and check the archives for the "original" DNA and compare it, plus retinal patterns, fingerprints, known scars and medical conditions, and a bunch of other info that would be on file for any law-abiding SINner.
The only way "stealing" a SIN works is if the original owner is permanently unable to complain... permanently. And, yes, that means killing them, which doesn't work for the topic at hand.
EDIT: Also, there's zero possibility of a a Non-Metahuman Sapient being be able to make their DNA look like a Metahuman's, so any street-doc filing a Naga-to-Troll Genetic Adjustment is going to have some serious credibility issues the instant anyone looks at the form.
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Hmm... Ok, all true. :) Especially the records; that's going to be the flaw here.
Still, given how easy genesurgury is, it's just as possible the person coming in complaining is trying to screw the existing person out of their SIN, or just cause problems for them, isn't it? I mean, they can't prove they are who they say they are, and whilst it's a bit suspicious, without a corp's backing (and it not even being a UCAS citizen) it's not going to be a top priority for glory hunger KE, is it?.
Alt point, if the surgery leaves the new SiNer with the same DNA as the original, and they just take control of the SIN, it becomes a SINless person coming in and accusing a legal citizen of crimes with no proof. Are KE going to bother looking into something like that? Keeping the original out of the picture is harder that way, but still doable, I think, with prep-work
@edit; *nods* True, but think the other way around. If a sapient wants a fake ID, it's going to take more work, as they're unusual, correct? (and thus, those involved can charge a premium rate ;))
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To accomplish your goal, your character needs to have been scammed. So, let's assume that she starts in a country that doesn't issue SINs to paranormals. She gets offered a job and a SIN at what she thinks is a reputable corporation in Seattle. When she gets there, it was all just a con job and now she's out of her home turf and stuck in a foreign land without a SIN. She could work for the people that brought her over, basically as slave labor, or she could try to make it on her own SINless with no contacts. Best case scenario, she gets deported. But because her homeland doesn't want paranormals, possibly hunted like in Quebec, they aren't taking her back. With no SIN there's no proof as to who she is there anyway.
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Possible, plausible, but not the character I was aiming at. I had her down as a prior respectable citizen. The whole 'people smuggling' thing kinda prohibits a character with formal education or training of any stripe, which limits my options. It's not the same angle.
Besides, I'm honestly curious as to how this'd work. With this level of tech, and a bit more flexibility than works for my character's background (IE, killing the victim) it wouldn't be too hard to replace anyone, given time and prepwork.
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The problem is that the SIN is stored in a database somewhere out there in the matrix. Your credstick just has a number (and some additional info) on it. For your SIN... Your actual SIN, to be stolen, all of the information attached to that number needs to get attached to a different number (or simply erased). Then the SIN number gets pointed to an empty database. Or more simply, the identifying characteristics of the SIN needs to be changed to someone else. So access the security section of the SIN registry and change password, thumb print, picture, etc. Then your hapless paranormal can show off her SIN number all she wants, according to the database, it isn't her. The most likely culprit is another SINless paranormal of the same type that needed a fake SIN and stole her entire identity right from the database.
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Yes, No commlink no money unless you happen to have some cash on you which the mugger(s) didn't take for some reason.
The more I think about it the scarier it gets, your entire life on something about the size of a smartphone. Your car, your apartment, you ID, all your information, and your most reliable way of getting help, gone all of it, just like that.
Without that little magic box you basically don't exist. If and when you finally get to help they laugh at you and call you a liar because "you" are in a McHugh's and just ordered a number 8.
There's a novel by Syne Mitchell called Technogenesis where the protagonist's personal data thingy breaks and she has to live completely invisible to society. She can't even board a bus without problems.
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The problem is that the SIN is stored in a database somewhere out there in the matrix. Your credstick just has a number (and some additional info) on it. For your SIN... Your actual SIN, to be stolen, all of the information attached to that number needs to get attached to a different number (or simply erased). Then the SIN number gets pointed to an empty database. Or more simply, the identifying characteristics of the SIN needs to be changed to someone else. So access the security section of the SIN registry and change password, thumb print, picture, etc. Then your hapless paranormal can show off her SIN number all she wants, according to the database, it isn't her. The most likely culprit is another SINless paranormal of the same type that needed a fake SIN and stole her entire identity right from the database.
*nods* Exactly. Shift the identifying stuff, or simply steel the commlink the SiN's kept on, and you pretty much have it. Say, with someone who has been working in advance to ensure they match your genetic description. I'm just saying you don't need to access the security system to change the issue, if you can do things legitimately. The DNA of a SINer and SINless match? The one currently with the SIN is probably real, and KE doesn't have to waste resources following every SINless SoBs requests, do they? ;)
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The problem is that the SIN is stored in a database somewhere out there in the matrix. Your credstick just has a number (and some additional info) on it. For your SIN... Your actual SIN, to be stolen, all of the information attached to that number needs to get attached to a different number (or simply erased). Then the SIN number gets pointed to an empty database. Or more simply, the identifying characteristics of the SIN needs to be changed to someone else. So access the security section of the SIN registry and change password, thumb print, picture, etc. Then your hapless paranormal can show off her SIN number all she wants, according to the database, it isn't her. The most likely culprit is another SINless paranormal of the same type that needed a fake SIN and stole her entire identity right from the database.
*nods* Exactly. Shift the identifying stuff, or simply steel the commlink the SiN's kept on, and you pretty much have it. Say, with someone who has been working in advance to ensure they match your genetic description. I'm just saying you don't need to access the security system to change the issue, if you can do things legitimately. The DNA of a SINer and SINless match? The one currently with the SIN is probably real, and KE doesn't have to waste resources following every SINless SoBs requests, do they? ;)
No, this isn't enough. The commlink is going to have your public display stuff accessible. Then it needs to get hacked for more information. With that, you have to get into the SIN registry and change the database information. DNA maps aren't likely to be standard, although there would be a option/slot/field/link etc for such security measures. Note that whoever is doing this needs to hack the SIN registry... This is not a simple thing. If it were, SINs would be entirely meaningless. A password change might be relatively easy if you have the password in the first place. Thumb print changes can be done if you can prove your ID somehow and then demonstrate that your print changed, i.e. replaced a limb. Same with retinal scans and voice prints. Whoever is doing it needs to prove that they are you without your access codes, etc. This isn't a simple mugging, it is a very advanced network with friends in high places that can do this.
Easy way to do this. Take the erased quality. Someone is out there actively erasing any progress you make to getting your ID back.
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*nods* Exactly. Shift the identifying stuff, or simply steel the commlink the SiN's kept on, and you pretty much have it. Say, with someone who has been working in advance to ensure they match your genetic description. I'm just saying you don't need to access the security system to change the issue, if you can do things legitimately. The DNA of a SINer and SINless match? The one currently with the SIN is probably real, and KE doesn't have to waste resources following every SINless SoBs requests, do they? ;)
No, this isn't enough. The commlink is going to have your public display stuff accessible. Then it needs to get hacked for more information. With that, you have to get into the SIN registry and change the database information. DNA maps aren't likely to be standard, although there would be a option/slot/field/link etc for such security measures. Note that whoever is doing this needs to hack the SIN registry... This is not a simple thing. If it were, SINs would be entirely meaningless. A password change might be relatively easy if you have the password in the first place. Thumb print changes can be done if you can prove your ID somehow and then demonstrate that your print changed, i.e. replaced a limb. Same with retinal scans and voice prints. Whoever is doing it needs to prove that they are you without your access codes, etc. This isn't a simple mugging, it is a very advanced network with friends in high places that can do this.
Easy way to do this. Take the erased quality. Someone is out there actively erasing any progress you make to getting your ID back.
*nods* We agree that this isn't an easy op, but I still disagree about the amount of hacking needed to pull this off. DNA is standard in a SIN, according to Unwired, as is retinal info ect. But pretty much every ID point can be changed legally through augmentation. After doing so, the doctors have to update the SIN to reflect what you look like now, which means an addendum added to the overall file. That doesn't require you to hack anything, that's legal. And there's enough identifying stuff in the basic SIN to give you bank account access, I think it's fair to say there's enough to authorize such an addendum, and thus leave the person who originally had the SIN out of luck. ,After all, they can't prove anything, and you've got better things to do. They're probably a Shadowrunner working on some convoluted infiltration plan, discrediting a respectable member of society. ;)
There are two ways you could take it. Have the surgury to match up with a known individual, then snatch the SIN, without filing anything. They've got the identifier, you don't (thanks to having no commlink) and are screwed (It's got an alphanumeric baseline, but not all the infomation on a SIN is the number, it's shown to be a more comprehensive ID)
Alternately you could avoid the sugary and claim to have had it to make you look as you are now. A bit riskier, could attract suspicions if KE bothers to investigate, but odds on they won't unless they've got a good reason to. The person doesn't have power or corp ties? There's no evidence beyond the testimony of a SINless? Plus how did they have all this in place so quickly? It'd take a pretty virtuous Knight to investigate just because someone pleeds that they're telling the truth.
(BTW, disagreement or no, thanks for the suggestion @Erased. I appreciate that, and it's viable, but I'm still thinking this baseline's doable. :))
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Let me tell you something. EVERY SINner considers SIN theft a major crime. It is the entire basis of their existence. That Knight is going to track that down hard, not for you, but because the next target could be him. And if it goes beyond someone snagging your password and bank account, that's going to bring in the Feds.
Yes, the biometrics can be changed. This is not a quick switch thing. This is application for change, review by board, sign off by authorized agents, repeated verification by agents after the fact. Expect the legal end processing to take on the order of months, which is fine, because you need time in bed to recover from the operation anyway. That isn't really the hard part. The hard part is justifying not killing you to prevent it from being reported.
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Eh. If it was a human, perhaps. A local, possibly. But every drunken elven hobo rambles about how they've got a SIN really, about how it was those evil Humanis types with their Dragon sponsors who took it all away from them. All a massive conspiracy!
;) Those who don't act rationally are easy to dismiss. I'm not sure they'd even bother to check unless the request was stated rationally and calmly. We're getting to a point where we're gauging vague things instead of systems, but yeah... I don't agree with you on how people think. A good natured, thoughtful, insightful Knight, sure, they'll take that stance. But your average joe wants peace, quiet contentment. They don't think 'that bum could be me' because they've got prospects, they're well liked. Things aren't going to go wrong for them.;)
The issue of killing or not killing is a separate one, though related. If it's easier to steal your commlink rather than kill you, isn't that the path most groups'll go down? Especially with less than tech savvy sapients... The difficulty comes in the fact that they will report it to Knight Errant... but if you do it right, and the changes are more on line with my thoughts, it's something that can be done to entirely cut you out of the system. By the time the victim reaches Knight Errant (hard to do without a commlink ;)) they're likely to be less than rational, and that won't help them put their case
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The issue of killing or not killing is a separate one, though related. If it's easier to steal your commlink rather than kill you, isn't that the path most groups'll go down? Especially with less than tech savvy sapients... The difficulty comes in the fact that they will report it to Knight Errant... but if you do it right, and the changes are more on line with my thoughts, it's something that can be done to entirely cut you out of the system. By the time the victim reaches Knight Errant (hard to do without a commlink ;)) they're likely to be less than rational, and that won't help them put their case
I've hung around plenty of cops and plenty of crooks over the years and no, not really. The kinds that are going to screw someone over that hard, without lube, aren't going to bat an eye at disposing of a major, inevitable complication like the real owner of the SIN still being alive. Compared to some of the vicious stuff they do, for less profit than the RL equivalent of what a Rating 6 Fake SIN would bring, it's not even going to register.
You also have the issue that, as has been stated, there are already rules for creating fake SIN which would apply to this situation. It takes weeks if not months to rework a SIN. The base threshold is Rating x 32, and you get one roll per in-game week. Even cutting the threshold in half for starting with a "similar" stolen SIN getting to a Rating 1 level of faking the SIN would take 16 hits rolling at 1-week intervals. Even a super-ace Hacker using Rating 10 programs is probably going to take two of three weeks, and the guys with that kind of skill and hardware can get more money for less work doing other things. So figure a month to two months, minimum, before there's even a chance for the altered papers to hold water.
During that time, all the NMS has to do is go up to a KE police station, claim their commlink was stolen, and recite their SIN verbally. It doesn't take "tech savvy" to memorize a number; most people I know have their SSNs memorized, and a good portion have the DLNs memorized as well. Even the most skeptical of police officers is going to at least run the severely agitated person's ID and biometrics before they dismiss the guy, if only to check them for Wants and Warrants. Yes, even for Non-Metahumans. Since, if they're alive, that's going to take less than a week (let alone two months) that means the hacker hasn't had nearly enough time to even begin reworking the SIN.
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I've hung around plenty of cops and plenty of crooks over the years and no, not really. The kinds that are going to screw someone over that hard, without lube, aren't going to bat an eye at disposing of a major, inevitable complication like the real owner of the SIN still being alive. Compared to some of the vicious stuff they do for less profit, it's not even going to register.
I'm not talking conscience, I'm talking 'worth a fight'. I'm going with a pixie, but I'd say this works for a wider group. Why get into a fight with someone capable of posing a risk to you when you can just snatch the commlink? You don't need to employ muscle, or lure them away from civilization. Hells, if they're really good, the user might not notice (I doubt AR Glasses users are always wearing them, the broadcasting commlink is the more important thing)
You also have the issue that, as has been stated, it takes weeks if not months to rework a SIN. The base threshold is Rating x 32, and you get one roll per in-game week. Even cutting the threshold in half for starting with a "similar" stolen SIN getting to a Rating 1 level of faking the SIN would take 16 hits rolling at 1-week intervals.
*nods* But IIRC, that's forging a SIN, right? I don't think there's anything about how long legitimate alterations take, but I'd imagine they'd be pretty simple. Essentially the Doctor forwarding their records to the SIN, and possibly approval at the record's office, to make sure it's a legit doctor doing it. What there would take weeks? Especially if this was done with prior knowledge. And remember, once it's done, the infomation on the SIN is confidential, and a SINless inquirer isn't going to get any of it...
During that time, all the NMS has to do is go up to a KE officer, claim their commlink was stolen, and recite their SIN verbally. It doesn't take "tech savvy" to memorize a number; most people I know have their SSNs memorized, and a good portion have the DLNs memorized as well. Even the most skeptical of police officers is going to at least run the severely agitated person's ID before they dismiss the guy. Since, if they're alive, that's going to take less than a week, which means the hacker hasn't had nearly enough time to even begin reworking the SIN, the mugging would be pointless.
Hmm... Again, opinion, but that sounds like something that someone who grew up with those things would do. Who might need to use those things in that form could do. Someone who was given a commlink and SIN as an adult, who wasn't too sure how they worked, and didn't use them much if avoidable. Especially if they were under stress when having to try and recall it.
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Alright try this scenario. As a pixie, you're in Seattle as a pet under some Frog's ID. That guy get's kacked and now you don't have an umbrella SIN to carry you. Now you're the equivalent of a stray dog.
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I'm not talking conscience, I'm talking 'worth a fight'. I'm going with a pixie, but I'd say this works for a wider group. Why get into a fight with someone capable of posing a risk to you when you can just snatch the commlink? You don't need to employ muscle, or lure them away from civilization. Hells, if they're really good, the user might not notice (I doubt AR Glasses users are always wearing them, the broadcasting commlink is the more important thing)
If the Pixie is too dangerous to attack directly, why even risk snatching their commlink, then? Just go abduct and murder some helpless schmuck of a Wageslave that isn't a member of a species most people thing are all mages.
*nods* But IIRC, that's forging a SIN, right? I don't think there's anything about how long legitimate alterations take, but I'd imagine they'd be pretty simple. Essentially the Doctor forwarding their records to the SIN, and possibly approval at the record's office, to make sure it's a legit doctor doing it. What there would take weeks? Especially if this was done with prior knowledge. And remember, once it's done, the infomation on the SIN is confidential, and a SINless inquirer isn't going to get any of it...
Except forging a SIN is exactly what you're doing here; you're creating a fake digital paper-trail that points towards a new identity. Remember, this isn't "legitimate" work it's a screw-job of the highest order. I already accounted for the fact that it's easier to adjust existing documents than create them from scratch by cutting the Threshold of the roll in half.
Hmm... Again, opinion, but that sounds like something that someone who grew up with those things would do. Who might need to use those things in that form could do. Someone who was given a commlink and SIN as an adult, who wasn't too sure how they worked, and didn't use them much if avoidable. Especially if they were under stress when having to try and recall it.
Not opinion. Experience. Cops see someone, especially a massively Charismatic person like a Pixie, freaking out about how they've had their stuff stolen, their first thought is to get the agitated person calmed down and keep them from making a scene, which usually involves at least going through the motions of taking the report. Even assuming the officer doesn't believe the massively Charismatic Pixie, running biometrics for the bare-bones "formality" of a report, which would be required to see if the Pixie is a corporate "pet" or is a wanted criminal, will turn up their identity since, again, the thief won't have had the time needed to alter the identity info.
Alright try this scenario. As a pixie, you're in Seattle as a pet under some Frog's ID. That guy get's kacked and now you don't have an umbrella SIN to carry you. Now you're the equivalent of a stray dog.
This, right here, is a much more likely scenario.
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I didn't want to throw the pixie pet scenario out there because I suggested it to someone like a week or two ago. They were doing a pixie detective... in combat boots I think... or maybe that was a different one. But yes, the stranded pet is a very believable story. And you still sort of have a SIN in so much as you've got a serial number associated with you, probably a subcutaneous RFID tag too.
If you're looking to be SINless yourself, but have fake SINs for permits and such, then the fake sins are for your dead master and you've just got to keep anyone from finding out he's dead.
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If the Pixie is too dangerous to attack directly, why even risk snatching their commlink, then? Just go abduct and murder some helpless schmuck of a Wageslave that isn't a member of a species most people thing are all mages.
For the same reason you said before. If you want to run this procedure to give another Pixie a fake ID, (and get good Nuyen for it ;)) you need one to target. That gives you limited options, but it's still doable; look for someone with a comparatively new SIN, and thus has less experience dealing with human civili8zation. That shouldn't be too hard, right? Basic research into a limited subset of SINs.
Except forging a SIN is exactly what you're doing here; you're creating a fake digital paper-trail that points towards a new identity. Remember, this isn't "legitimate" work it's a screw-job of the highest order. I already accounted for the fact that it's easier to adjust existing documents than create them from scratch by cutting the Threshold of the roll in half.
But this isn't even that. That requires an edit of an existing SIN, changing stuff, which this doesn't. It requires a legally submitted addenda, which isn't covered by the forging rules. These are legal procedure. They're not foolproof, but it's still a legal way to change a SIN's bottom line. Why would a simple legal document take that long to file?
Not opinion. Experience. Cops see someone, especially a massively Charismatic person like a Pixie, freaking out about how they've had their stuff stolen, their first thought is to get the agitated person calmed down and keep them from making a scene, which usually involves at least going through the motions of taking the report. Even assuming the officer doesn't believe the massively Charismatic Pixie, running biometrics for the bare-bones "formality" of a report, which would be required to see if the Pixie is a corporate "pet" or is a wanted criminal, will turn up their identity since, again, the thief won't have had the time needed to alter the identity info.
I've argued the time thing above, but yeah, I can see most of this. (though emphasis ill becomes you ;)) I'd still say that comparing contemporary Cops to KE is doing the Knights too much justice, and the Cops a disservice, but yeah.... circs are going to matter a lot, it'd be much easier for KE to sideline her if the office was empty rather than if the reception was full at the time, there's the personality of the individual officers... too many variables, in short. I'll grant you that they'll run analysis, it's certainly possible, and best to focus this argument down on the time issue.
Alright try this scenario. As a pixie, you're in Seattle as a pet under some Frog's ID. That guy get's kacked and now you don't have an umbrella SIN to carry you. Now you're the equivalent of a stray dog.
Why would a pixie be a pet to a Frog? France issues them SINs, and they've got a pretty good rep there.
*shrugs* Side issue though, and yeah, that works to get a pixie to Seattle without a SIN, but that's not what I'm aiming at. I'm after a lost SIN specifically, though thinking about it, erased ID might also work. I'd need to come up with a reason for it, but that's probably the best alt from my point of view.
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Frog = slang for Frenchman.
It is very hard to get rid of a SIN once you have one. Stipulating that some punk kid can steal it from you is a very bad precedent. It either means that your pixie is an utter moron or the entire infrastructure of SINs is compromised. Now, a FAKE SIN could be stolen like that since you can't just go to the cops.
You seem really set on the SIN being stolen and are ignoring the entire plausibility of the situation. At that point, you just say it was stolen and don't think about it any more. Done.
If you want a plausible reason for an educated pixie to be SINless in Seattle, that is a different matter. Being a pet works and it works pretty damn well if you're from Quebec where they hunt paranormals. And if you were registered under a CATco employee, when it went belly up, so did your meal ticket and registration. Perhaps your master was a secretary for Lucien Cross and died in that crash. No body to be identified. The corp gets bought up so nobody asks about her whereabouts. Just need to explain about 8 years of keeping a dead woman alive in the eyes of the SIN registry. You could even use those 8 years to better yourself, stealing from her coffers to pay for your education. Or, you know, you could just get mugged by a kid fresh off the boat and not realize you can just report it to the police... your call :)
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I know Frog=French. ;) Just saying, they know Pixies, and are the nation known to grant them SINs. Hell, they granted them self-rule. Just a little odd to have a Frog in that position.
You seem really set on the SIN being stolen and are ignoring the entire plausibility of the situation. At that point, you just say it was stolen and don't think about it any more. Done.
Kinda harsh. Yeah, that's the outcome I'm interested in, but I've been trying to argue logically as to how this might work, as opposed to just ignoring anything you guys say.. I'd envisioned the character in this way, as a citizen fallen rather than a pet escaped, which is a pretty different situation.
It is very hard to get rid of a SIN once you have one. Stipulating that some punk kid can steal it from you is a very bad precedent. It either means that your pixie is an utter moron or the entire infrastructure of SINs is compromised. Now, a FAKE SIN could be stolen like that since you can't just go to the cops.
;) A government system in Shadowrun not working how it should? Oh, the horror.
Eh, not really. Even if what I'm saying is true, it usually would get thwarted by the family, at least in most situations, or Corp middle management. Family Groups that don't have long term Matrix access are the flaw in the system, but those groups tend to be SINless, so what should the system care? And yeah, someone without much experiance in public living, going from small scale clan life to cities and sprawls? She had stuff to learn.
If you want a plausible reason for an educated pixie to be SINless in Seattle, that is a different matter. Being a pet works and it works pretty damn well if you're from Quebec where they hunt paranormals. And if you were registered under a CATco employee, when it went belly up, so did your meal ticket and registration. Perhaps your master was a secretary for Lucien Cross and died in that crash. No body to be identified. The corp gets bought up so nobody asks about her whereabouts. Just need to explain about 8 years of keeping a dead woman alive in the eyes of the SIN registry. You could even use those 8 years to better yourself, stealing from her coffers to pay for your education. Or, you know, you could just get mugged by a kid fresh off the boat and not realize you can just report it to the police... your call :)
:( Erm.... I do appreciate the advice, but... well, the thing is, that simply results in a pretty much completely different character than the one I'd intended. I was after a character who'd studied Hermetic magic in Prague, become a member of the Benandanti, happy to get to see more of the world, who then got essentially marooned in Seattle, and had to take to dark paths because of it. As opposed to a liberated pet, who has everything to live for now. There's nothing inherantly wrong with that concept, but... well, as a thought, would it be fair to describe that character concept as somewhat 'Moe'?
Honestly? The idea that she doesn't believe she can talk with the police is probably more plausible than at first it seems ;). With lesser knowledge of how these things work, it's not implausible that she'll believe that getting caught without a SIN in public gets her a criminal SIN. (In places like Quebec, it probably would)
Also, please tell me there's a Trid or at least a chapter in some sourcebook called 'SINless in Seattle' ;)
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I understand you want to play a certain type of character but, unfortunately, sometimes you have to face the fact that your concept just doesn't jive with the way the world is written and the character just isn't plausible. When you have to argue that the entire infrastructure that modern identity verification is based on can be compromised irrecoverably in the matter of a few hours to try and justify your point, it's time to hang it up.
It takes a lot of time and money to burn a legitimate SIN even when you want it gone, and it's hard to keep it from coming to bite you in the ass even then. If it were that easy to get rid of a SIN, criminals wouldn't keep a Criminal SIN for more than a few hours after getting out of jail.
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Well there are a couple of issues as I see it.
1: Is there a country out there that issues SINs to your meta type? Remember, just cause its a meta type doesn't mean it is actually acknowledged by a country! Shapechangers CAN NOT be UCAS citizens cause the UCAS says they are animals and ONLY animals! I don't know of any country (off hand) that recognizes pixies as 'people' :(
2: stealing a commlink really doesn't help a thief any more then that he has a used commlink to pawn. All the info is still encoded/incrypted so he can't even pull your cash out of your bank account without hacking it. Plus, the victim goes off crying to LS/KE about the thieft and the cops can track that commlink back to the thieves the moment they turn it on. You can use it to make a purchase (after you hacked it for the passcodes) while in hidden mode remember? (cause, you know, it's HIDDEN)
Also, the victim's SIN isn't just stored in one place.... It's EVERYWHERE that person has used their ID. When they rented their home. Purchased their car, applied for a driver's liecence, voted in the election, etc... That's one of the chief reasons faking a SIN takes to long, ESP for a 'good' SIN. It takes time to plant all that background history (right down to the size of the pants you bought last week at the GAP).
Sure, someone could steal a SIN, hack a few little details and away they go... To maybe the stuffer shack... It isn't going to stand up to a good scanner. (basically you got a rating 1 faked SIN) the first time you need to prove yourself to someone of authority (the bank for large purchases, the cops, an embassy, etc) you are matching your in the flesh samples (anything/everything from simple biometrics to DNA to thermal patterns, etc) to what is on file! (you get to roll your 1 dice VS the scanners rating 3 [patrol car] to rating 9 [military] dice... Aka you're busted!)
Conversely, the victim is going to have a much easier time of getting their info locked/changed/flagged the faster the report it to the authorities. After all they just "goto the police" submit to a scan VS on file SIN info, and bang, they get it "sorted out" (yea, not exactly that easy, but a hella lot easier then you think)
Hacking a commlink and stealing the info is good for small, short term things like ringing in a meal at a stuffer shack... Or maybe paying of a low lifestyle for a month or two... But eventually it WILL catch up to the thief. Either the real owner will notice the missing funds and change his passwords, or the bank will notice the inconsistencies and flag the account (why is Johnny paying the utilities on a pad in Huston when his address is in Seattle??)
Want to try a real life experiment? Try using a CC in a different country when on vacation without telling the CC company!!! It will get declined do fast it will make your head spin! (heck, I even told them where and when i was going at it still got declined! Had to call them 3 seperate times while on vacation to get it to work for the 3 purchases I made on it! Not a happy camper with TD visa)
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All this gave me an idea about how to frame someone or get them put away for a long while without killing them. Snatch them, keep them off the street for a bit, while you have them locked up put some warrants out for their arrest in different places, and release them without their commlink so they have to go get a new one. They pop up as a wanted criminal in a bunch of areas, and promptly get locked down for Ghost knows how long.
Shoot you could probably set it all up before hand and mug them and take their stuff when you are ready.
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Note on the Pixie:
Only France issues regular (citizenship) SINs to pixies.
Germany will issue a criminal SIN...
(did not know this at time of my posting)
So that leaves you in an interesting position in Seattle with a pixie character with "no SIN".... You are viewed not as a person, but as a non-native (and possibly harmful!!) animal. You HAVE no rights! You can not goto KE/LS to report a missing SIN, can not go into shops/stores/restaurants, can not rent a house/apartment/hotelroom.
In fact, you are worse then SINless!! SINless are still protected by basic human rights.... But under UCAS law, you are not (meta)human!
OFF TO THE ANIMAL SHELTER FOR YOU!!! And if no one "claims" you in 6 weeks.... The incinerator.
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Pixie comes to Seattle, pre-Crash, using valid French SIN. Crash rolls around and credstick can't be verified. Without funds to return to France and the ability to recertify her ID, she's stuck. Eventually, too much time passes and the amnesty SIN registration period passes. Poof, her SIN is gone and she's stuck in Seattle area. Not stolen, just lost in the crash with no way of rebuilding it. She can't even go to the police now because she's not recognized as a person let alone a citizen. At that point, you've got about 8 years to stew about your situation and struggle to survive. When Brackhaven becomes governor, things get worse for non-humans. K-E taking over the Seattle contract after the Tempo problem also aggravates the situation since they have a bit of a reputation of being harsh against magic users (FAB-3 and the whole Chicago fiasco).
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I understand you want to play a certain type of character but, unfortunately, sometimes you have to face the fact that your concept just doesn't jive with the way the world is written and the character just isn't plausible. When you have to argue that the entire infrastructure that modern identity verification is based on can be compromised irrecoverably in the matter of a few hours to try and justify your point, it's time to hang it up.
It takes a lot of time and money to burn a legitimate SIN even when you want it gone, and it's hard to keep it from coming to bite you in the ass even then. If it were that easy to get rid of a SIN, criminals wouldn't keep a Criminal SIN for more than a few hours after getting out of jail.
:) I get what your saying, I simply disagree. Yeah, this is a hole in the system, but it's not that big, and is going to raise some problems if tried outside of these circumstance. For one thing, this flat out won't work on any kind of mass basis, you need someone else to be living and using the SIN, (and a doctor who is legit but won't talk) as opposed to just messing around with the documentation. If the authorities can't contact the current holder of the SIN, but find a link between it and someone else, they'll join the dots.(though with genetweaking, I'd have said people have tried to frame others before by going this route :)) It also doesn't work for anyone with infrastructure enough to get KE to investigate seriously, which would hold true for most corp or local citizens. Even most foreigners with family will eventually launch an inquiry with the authorities, to find out what happened to their family member.
(That's an interesting side note. Who has access to a SINs info? Police authorities, CorpSec... are they allowed to share stuff with the public? ;))
2: stealing a commlink really doesn't help a thief any more then that he has a used commlink to pawn. All the info is still encoded/incrypted so he can't even pull your cash out of your bank account without hacking it. Plus, the victim goes off crying to LS/KE about the thieft and the cops can track that commlink back to the thieves the moment they turn it on. You can use it to make a purchase (after you hacked it for the passcodes) while in hidden mode remember? (cause, you know, it's HIDDEN)
Also, the victim's SIN isn't just stored in one place.... It's EVERYWHERE that person has used their ID. When they rented their home. Purchased their car, applied for a driver's liecence, voted in the election, etc... That's one of the chief reasons faking a SIN takes to long, ESP for a 'good' SIN. It takes time to plant all that background history (right down to the size of the pants you bought last week at the GAP).
Sure, someone could steal a SIN, hack a few little details and away they go... To maybe the stuffer shack... It isn't going to stand up to a good scanner. (basically you got a rating 1 faked SIN) the first time you need to prove yourself to someone of authority (the bank for large purchases, the cops, an embassy, etc) you are matching your in the flesh samples (anything/everything from simple biometrics to DNA to thermal patterns, etc) to what is on file! (you get to roll your 1 dice VS the scanners rating 3 [patrol car] to rating 9 [military] dice... Aka you're busted!)
Conversely, the victim is going to have a much easier time of getting their info locked/changed/flagged the faster the report it to the authorities. After all they just "goto the police" submit to a scan VS on file SIN info, and bang, they get it "sorted out" (yea, not exactly that easy, but a hella lot easier then you think)
Remember, in SR, surgery can change everything about you. DNA, eyes, facial structure... and do it legitimately. Those things are added to the SIN, through legitimate channels. If you have someone who can file those forms as soon as you crack the commlink and share the basic details of the SIN....
In fact, you are worse then SINless!! SINless are still protected by basic human rights.... But under UCAS law, you are not (meta)human!
OFF TO THE ANIMAL SHELTER FOR YOU!!! And if no one "claims" you in 6 weeks.... The incinerator.
;) I'm not sure if that's something to be overly worried about (can fly) but does show a point. If we're not in agreement about how KE would react to the character in this situation, how is she supposed to know? She doesn't have access to sourcebooks. :)
Pixie comes to Seattle, pre-Crash, using valid French SIN. Crash rolls around and credstick can't be verified. Without funds to return to France and the ability to recertify her ID, she's stuck. Eventually, too much time passes and the amnesty SIN registration period passes. Poof, her SIN is gone and she's stuck in Seattle area. Not stolen, just lost in the crash with no way of rebuilding it. She can't even go to the police now because she's not recognized as a person let alone a citizen. At that point, you've got about 8 years to stew about your situation and struggle to survive. When Brackhaven becomes governor, things get worse for non-humans. K-E taking over the Seattle contract after the Tempo problem also aggravates the situation since they have a bit of a reputation of being harsh against magic users (FAB-3 and the whole Chicago fiasco).
*nods* That's a viable alt, which gives the same character. :) I'm personally preferring the first idea, so going to focus on it, but yes, that still works. Thanks! :)
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One of the books (I -THINK- Spygames, but I'm AFB) has an explanation of Fake SIN's and what's on them, depending on their rating.
To have an idea of how easy it is to steal someone's identity by just stealing their commlink, this gives a good reference though.
Like I said, AFB, but it comes down to that a R1 fake SIN means you're in the local database, but that's just about it. The moment anyone checks out of that database he'll notice the identity is just fake, not being in any other system is just impossible for a real SINner.
A high rating SIN means you're in the national database, in the database of several megacorps, have a long history and a hundred friends on the 2072 Facebook equivalent, an open account in 3 shopping malls, the stuffer shack next door and apparently once booked into a hotel in Florida on a holiday 5 years ago.
So just stealing a SIN means you might have a Rating 0.5 fake SIN, because you don't even match the local database: "Yes sir, I know you have a SIN. But you don't look like a 85 year old widow to me." You want to really steal someone's identity: you'll have to edit the records stored in the databases of several megacorps and governments (though this is often outsources to megacorps too) and a thousand of other small places.
That's why it takes so long.
That street doc you bribed might have enough influence to chance the records in the local database, but any real security check will raise a red flag because this information does not match that stored in all those other databases.
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One of the books (I -THINK- Spygames, but I'm AFB) has an explanation of Fake SIN's and what's on them, depending on their rating.
To have an idea of how easy it is to steal someone's identity by just stealing their commlink, this gives a good reference though.
Like I said, AFB, but it comes down to that a R1 fake SIN means you're in the local database, but that's just about it. The moment anyone checks out of that database he'll notice the identity is just fake, not being in any other system is just impossible for a real SINner.
A high rating SIN means you're in the national database, in the database of several megacorps, have a long history and a hundred friends on the 2072 Facebook equivalent.
So just stealing a SIN means you might have a Rating 0.5 fake SIN, because you don't even match the local database: "Yes sir, I know you have a SIN. But you don't look like a 85 year old widow to me." You want to really steal someone's identity: you'll have to edit the records stored in the databases of several megacorps and governments. That's why it takes so long. And that street doc you bribed might have enough influence to chance the records in the local database, but any real security check will raise a red flag because this information does not match that stored in several other databases.
Erm, you're not really addressing the point I brought up about legit modifications to things like looks, DNA signature, ect. All these things can be changed legitimately, and that has to be reflected on the SIN. You don't need a street doc to do that, you just need legit surgery that can file the stuff under the wrong SIN, so the original can't prove who they are any more. It's different to faking a SIN, requires more prepwork and care in execution, but the two aren't quite the same thing.
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Erm, you're not really addressing the point I brought up about legit modifications to things like looks, DNA signature, ect. All these things can be changed legitimately, and that has to be reflected on the SIN. You don't need a street doc to do that, you just need legit surgery that can file the stuff under the wrong SIN, so the original can't prove who they are any more. It's different to faking a SIN, requires more prepwork and care in execution, but the two aren't quite the same thing.
That was addressed way back in the thread, MW. They keep records of the pre-change genetic profile as well, if only so that gene-tweaks (on-the-books ones like you're talking about, at least) can't be used to avoid DNA evidence linking someone to a crime. There's also recovery time, and plastic surgery leaves marks.
Also, Pixies (and other NMSs) are notoriously difficult to work on, medically, for Metahuman-trained doctors. The number of Sapients in Seattle that are capable of doing complex genetic work on them would be countable on a single hand, and they require Delta Clinic level facilities, which are even rarer.
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Erm, you're not really addressing the point I brought up about legit modifications to things like looks, DNA signature, ect. All these things can be changed legitimately, and that has to be reflected on the SIN. You don't need a street doc to do that, you just need legit surgery that can file the stuff under the wrong SIN, so the original can't prove who they are any more. It's different to faking a SIN, requires more prepwork and care in execution, but the two aren't quite the same thing.
Legit? Hah! You must've been born in a different century!
That Evo clinic where you got your genes altered and implants installed might have the authorisation to change their own database and a licence to add medical data (without erasing/modifying older info, of course) to that of the UCAS government.
But funny thing is, that facebook profile of yours doesn't mention anything about that month you spent in a clinic... isn't that odd? And of course, the next time you pass an S-K or Ares border or security checkpoint, they might want to do some additional controls and have their own medical team do some 'minor examinations'. All for your own and public safety, of course. "Don't like it? Tough. Maybe next time you'll have your work done at one of our clinics instead, huh?"
You're living in a world where what's legit and what isn't can change every doorstep your cross.
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Lose your SIN in the crash and then LIE. You don't want people to know that the SIN is well and truly gone, just misplaced. So lie and tell people it was stolen and you're trying to get it back. If people know you have no SIN, you're basically an animal in Seattle. But if they think you're a victim of identity theft, you're a person.
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That was addressed way back in the thread, MW. They keep records of the pre-change genetic profile as well, if only so that gene-tweaks (on-the-books ones like you're talking about, at least) can't be used to avoid DNA evidence linking someone to a crime. There's also recovery time, and plastic surgery leaves marks.
:) Marks that are in the main only detectable by in depth examination. Simple easy to see marks aren't really the thing for celebrities, and a doctor good enough to opperate on a NMS is good enough not to leave marks that're easily visible..
As to the records issue I'm not sure... if two people have the same DNA, you can't spot the genetweaking, and one has a SIN, who will you believe? (as to recovery time, there're a few ways around that, some of which I'll go into below.
But funny thing is, that facebook profile of yours doesn't mention anything about that month you spent in a clinic... isn't that odd? And of course, the next time you pass an S-K or Ares border or security checkpoint, they might want to do some additional controls and have their own medical team do some 'minor examinations'. All for your own and public safety, of course. "Don't like it? Tough. Maybe next time you'll have your work done at one of our clinics instead, huh?"
:) Alt scenario then; what if you got that info in advance, did the surgery beforehand to make the 'new' holder look like the original, and simply swapped the SIN? That's not detectable without a damn good medical scan, performed at the word of a SINless. And just because you're SINless doesn't mean you're a tramp. You could be a criminal with genetweaking trying to make trouble for an upstanding citizen! ;)
Another idea with the first; claim that you're beginning surgery and recovery with the theft. Again, the authorities have to actively investigate to catch you, and do it on the word of someone without a SIN, and on what more or less amounts to their word.
Lose your SIN in the crash and then LIE. You don't want people to know that the SIN is well and truly gone, just misplaced. So lie and tell people it was stolen and you're trying to get it back. If people know you have no SIN, you're basically an animal in Seattle. But if they think you're a victim of identity theft, you're a person.
Hmm... perhaps, but for a NMS? They're animals anyway. ;) Those Frogs might give 'em SINs, but we don't do that stupid drek here! I ware my Naga skin boots and like 'em.
(Or wait, is that the CAS?)
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Does make you wonder, huh?
Would the cops even listen to a SINless Pixie? Or would they call animal services?
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..
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Or would they slap a restraint on it and then try to sell it to an exotic animal dealer??
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Do the cops even have a public office? Reading the Seattle book, it's noted that if you have problems, you should contact Knight Errant customer services. Which makes some sense. If you can just call them or make contracts with them online, why do they need an office that people can visit? That just means they have to interact with the public. ;) There's PANICBUTTON!, but that's generally done from either a commlink or a public terminal (and how those work, I'm still unsure on... won't they require money?)
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Do the cops even have a public office? Reading the Seattle book, it's noted that if you have problems, you should contact Knight Errant customer services. Which makes some sense. If you can just call them or make contracts with them online, why do they need an office that people can visit? That just means they have to interact with the public. ;) There's PANICBUTTON!, but that's generally done from either a commlink or a public terminal (and how those work, I'm still unsure on... won't they require money?)
They are paid for by the city in the city's contract. That contract spells out alot of things in flowery legalize suchs as "minamum response times" "acceptable loss to net gains ratio", "acceptable criminal activity levels", "expected conviction and harm reduction ratios". And what not...
Basically, the city says: we want <XyZ> response times to crimes in <ABC> areas, we want a ratio of 1:X crimes per capita, we expect a XX% reduction in <ZZZ> crimes and a conviction rate of <D>%.
KE crunches the numbers factoring in all it's expected costs, expected spin off capital gains, then factors in a profit margin and fires back with a bid...
The city and KE dance around the bagaining table till the get all the numbers they are happy with and sign a contract.
So your PANICBUTTON! In an AAA neighborhood might summon a squad car in under 2 minutes. (cause that is what their contract says) In a B 'hood that might be a drone in 5 minutes. And in a Z zone? The button was stripped for salable parts.
And this is why not having a SIN sucks. If you don't have a SIN you are legally not a resident of the city. If you are not a resident, you don't pay city taxes. No taxes paid, you havn't paid KE (through the city), thus they have no real obligation to help you, beyond the basic human rights, if you get into trouble!
For exotic sapients (who the UCAS doesn't recgognize) they have NO real obligation at all! (not a 'person' remember?) unless a national embassy contacts them on the citizens behalf ahead of time!
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And this is why not having a SIN sucks. If you don't have a SIN you are legally not a resident of the city. If you are not a resident, you don't pay city taxes. No taxes paid, you havn't paid KE (through the city), thus they have no real obligation to help you, beyond the basic human rights, if you get into trouble!
Are you even human to them without a SIN?
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Do the cops even have a public office?
Yes they have precinct houses. The one on the Tacoma Docks got taken over from Lone Star. That is just one example. There are many unlisted ones. Police stations are there for the same reason you have a cop walking the beat, cars patrolling and cops on horseback. If a cop is SEEN in the area, criminals tend to move on to safer pastures. People also feel safer is they know a cop is nearby.
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Do the cops even have a public office?
Yes they have precinct houses. The one on the Tacoma Docks got taken over from Lone Star. That is just one example. There are many unlisted ones. Police stations are there for the same reason you have a cop walking the beat, cars patrolling and cops on horseback. If a cop is SEEN in the area, criminals tend to move on to safer pastures. People also feel safer is they know a cop is nearby.
Didn't stop me in the Genesis video game. I'd go in and out of practically every corp office (including the cops) with impunity because they couldn't stop me. ::)
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And this is why not having a SIN sucks. If you don't have a SIN you are legally not a resident of the city. If you are not a resident, you don't pay city taxes. No taxes paid, you havn't paid KE (through the city), thus they have no real obligation to help you, beyond the basic human rights, if you get into trouble!
Are you even human to them without a SIN?
Yes and no... You are still covered by the basic 'naturalized human rights' as set out in the UCAS charter. But that is IT! So a cop coming around a corner, seeing some punks beating up a SINless is obligated to stop it. But he may not proceed with actually laying charges (depends on his mood). However, he probably wouldn't take a statement or fill out reports on anything to do with the SINless. SINless crime victims would be given the least amount of time/officers/resources to solve what happened until it became in the corp's best interest to allocate more (ie the Mayan cutter)
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The better question is: "what happens to a non-recognized sapient who calls attention to themselves without a SIN?"
That would depend on the sapient and the nation I would think. In Quebec, a shape changer calling LS would probably get shot since Quebec has bounties of upwards $25k on shapies... (nice way to make some extra cash AND do his job at the same time)
For your pixie in Seattle, probably animal services would be called to collect a stray paracritter... Until she/she/(it?) proved dangerous... Then it would be 'shoot on sight' after all you don't talk a rabid dog into coming along... They just shoot it.