Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Ki_Ryn on <05-13-12/0141:12>
-
If a character has a comlink and sim module (connected to a datajack), I believe that is enough to fully experience AR and VR. Is it also enough for a smartgun link / image link?
-
A simmodule will only allow you to do VR, not AR.
And when in VR, you ragdoll ... that is, you go limp like a wet noodle.
To use AR, you need an image link - whether it's i your eyes or in your glasses doesn't matter.
To use a smartgun, you need .... a smartlink. And only a smartlink.
-
Even though the rules specifically say that a smartlink requires an image link to display, there should be other logical options. Having an internal commlink (no need for sim module) which you can access via DNI without the need for any extra input or output devices should suffice to have the smartlink work. Maybe pay some extra for the special configuration. And of course last word will have your GM.
-
A simmodule will only allow you to do VR, not AR.
Nope.
Sim Module: The sim module is an interface device that controls
the simsense experience. It translates computer signals (simsense data)
into neural signals, allowing the user to directly experience simsense
programs, augmented and virtual reality (Virtual Reality, p. 220). A
sim module must be accessed via trodes or a direct neural interface
(datajack, implanted commlink, etc).
...
-
So with a comlink - sim module - datajack setup, it looks like you can perceive the virtual stuff that would otherwise require cyber eyes/ears or glasses/earbuds etc.. I guess you could also communicate through DNI to the comlink to avoid needing a microphone to subvocalize?
With a sim rig instead of a simple module, I think you could also record info - again acheiving some of the functionality of many cyber eyes/ears without the hardware.
-
Well you still need Smartlink implant. I know it is a bit obsolete, since Smartlink function can easily be supplied by software running on your commlink, but this technological developement still has not been made...
-
Well, I can't speak for the SR4 version, but the SR3 Smartlink included a dedicated Ballistics Co-Processor for calculating the trajectories. Maybe it's like a graphics card that a modern computer needs to run the latest games: trying to do all the calculations on the commlink's main CPU would consume too many clock cycles to function properly while also doing everything else it needs to do. (Perhaps Smartlinks are getting more advanced--and requiring more resources--with each passing year to keep up with the advancing technology.)
-
Smartlink includes a lot of hardcoded targeting data and such. However, a technomancer can thread a smartlink complex form. Of course, they can also thread a simrig complex form, so they're a bit different from regular users to begin with, no?
-
For the smart link question, I think mirikon and Narrotor have the giest of it.
To me a smart link is actually 3 pieces of ware coming together.
1: the link in the gun is a dedicated piece of hard/soft ware calibrated to the weapon to provide the absolute best knowledge on the trajectories and ballistics of the weapon.
2: the meat link installed in the person that takes the info from the gun translates it to meaningful input and sends that to ....
3: the visual receptors of the shootist, displaying the projected point of impact on the target inrelation to the position of the gun.
As how a simrig, etc could replace cyber eyes/ears.... Not too sure what you mean here. An implanted commlink would allow you to bypass the subvocialization for sure (and you could probably do a 'sore throat' through thought as well!) Also the input from your implanted comm would allow you to not need cyber eyes/ears to see text messages or hear calls.
But you would still need SOME sort of receptors for any of the nifty things eyes/ears can do.. (flare compensation, thermographic, low light, magnification, etc for eyes. Low range, high range, spatial, dampening,etc for ears)
However, you could just go with headphones and shades with those features built in and the DNI'd to your comm to broadcast.
-
So with a comlink - sim module - datajack setup, it looks like you can perceive the virtual stuff that would otherwise require cyber eyes/ears or glasses/earbuds
Not at all, your commlink has no camera.
-
So with a comlink - sim module - datajack setup, it looks like you can perceive the virtual stuff that would otherwise require cyber eyes/ears or glasses/earbuds
Not at all, your commlink has no camera.
Yes it has (p327-328, SR4A).
-
As how a simrig, etc could replace cyber eyes/ears.... Not too sure what you mean here. An implanted commlink would allow you to bypass the subvocialization for sure (and you could probably do a 'sore throat' through thought as well!) Also the input from your implanted comm would allow you to not need cyber eyes/ears to see text messages or hear calls.
But you would still need SOME sort of receptors for any of the nifty things eyes/ears can do.. (flare compensation, thermographic, low light, magnification, etc for eyes. Low range, high range, spatial, dampening,etc for ears)
However, you could just go with headphones and shades with those features built in and the DNI'd to your comm to broadcast.
The nifty things come both as cyber-eye/ear addons and as direct implants (or as you say, shades and headphones. I think the basic idea is that a simrig can record all kinds of sensory data for later playback, Even going beyond that to emotions. So a simrig and a comlink could turn the user into a proverbial gargoyle.
The matrix/electronics chapter can be complicated as there is a fair bunch of overlapping gear. I wonder if i should make a stab at showing in what way things overlap somehow.
-
Ok, i think the following list should mostly cover the permutations available.
Visual recording:
cybereyes, camera (standalone, shades, goggles, contacts), eye recording unit, simrig.
Audio recording:
cyberears, microphone (standalone, earbuds, headset), ear recording unit, simrig.
Olfactory recording:
olfactory booster, simrig.
Taste recording:
taste booster, simrig.
Visual AR:
sim module*, cybereyes, imagelink, shades, goggles, contacts, simrig.
Audio AR:
sim module*, cyberears, headphones, buds, sound link, simrig.
Tactile AR:
sim module*, touch link, AR gloves, simrig.
Olfactory AR:
sim module*, olfactory booster, simrig.
Taste AR:
sim module*, taste booster, simrig.
AR interaction:
sim module*, AR gloves, simrig.
*accessed via either cyberjack or trodes.
-
Well, I can't speak for the SR4 version, but the SR3 Smartlink included a dedicated Ballistics Co-Processor for calculating the trajectories. Maybe it's like a graphics card that a modern computer needs to run the latest games: trying to do all the calculations on the commlink's main CPU would consume too many clock cycles to function properly while also doing everything else it needs to do. (Perhaps Smartlinks are getting more advanced--and requiring more resources--with each passing year to keep up with the advancing technology.)
Yu ever heard about TacNet? Compare this kind of software with smartlink. We needed BattleTac unit in 2nd edition, now we have it all in nice SW package. So I really dont think that smartlink calculations are way more complicated than, lets say, running Exploit.
in adition, you alrady have Camera and some hardware in smartgun, so why dont leave the ncessary calculations on this side of the fence... and about how complicated device Smartlink really is...well..it can be integrated into Contact lenses...all inclusive
So with a comlink - sim module - datajack setup, it looks like you can perceive the virtual stuff that would otherwise require cyber eyes/ears or glasses/earbuds
Not at all, your commlink has no camera.
Yes it has (p327-328, SR4A).
Well I guess that implanted commlink has at least some features removed :D
-
So with a comlink - sim module - datajack setup, it looks like you can perceive the virtual stuff that would otherwise require cyber eyes/ears or glasses/earbuds
Not at all, your commlink has no camera.
Yes it has (p327-328, SR4A).
Well I guess that implanted commlink has at least some features removed :D
Oops, missed the part about it being implanted.
-
Hrmf, found myself creating a table to keep track of all the AR/simrig overlaps, as the early listing was not easy to visualize.
Now to find a place to upload it...
-
Sorry I wasn't explicit but I was thinking the commlink and simrig were external (and connected directly to the datajack socket if that matters). Just trying to keep things simple :)
-
if connected to implanted simrig/link via datajack, situation is the same, because in fact you dont use commlink camera for targetting...Smartgun has its own camera. Commlink just have to recognize that this signal is comming from your gun and is intended to be synchronized with your visual cortex and perceived as a part of sensory input.
-
So with a comlink - sim module - datajack setup, it looks like you can perceive the virtual stuff that would otherwise require cyber eyes/ears or glasses/earbuds
Not at all, your commlink has no camera.
Yes it has (p327-328, SR4A).
Well I guess that implanted commlink has at least some features removed :D
Oops, missed the part about it being implanted.
what you dont want a camara and retractable ear buds and roll out keyboad in your head?
-
A simsense/simrig module connected by trodes ,DNI (implanted) or Datajack (which is DNI-connected by itself) can induce information directly into your brain as different senses to allow VR and AR. So there should be no need for an Image Link to see AR etc.
Unfortunately SmartLink needs a special SmartLink vision enhancement and a Image Link to be used.
Using a simsense module + DNI instead of Image Link might work (allthough it's not directly written in the rules), but there isn't a "software-version" of the vision enhancement part (technomancers can thread one^^), so your still stuck with using the traditional hardware solution when using Smartlinks.
-
Having an internal commlink (no need for sim module) which you can access via DNI without the need for any extra input or output devices should suffice to have the smartlink work.
It's my understanding that you would still need a sim module to experience VR, or at least an Image Link and Audio Link to experience AR, even with an implanted commlink.
-
Having an internal commlink (no need for sim module) which you can access via DNI without the need for any extra input or output devices should suffice to have the smartlink work.
It's my understanding that you would still need a sim module to experience VR, or at least an Image Link and Audio Link to experience AR, even with an implanted commlink.
Yes, you always need a sim module for VR, but not for AR.
The device sends information that is translated by the DNI interface into something you can understand, though such mental input is somewhat different from physical sensory input. Seeing something in your mind’s eye, for example, is not quite the same as seeing it physically.
-
A simsense/simrig module connected by trodes ,DNI (implanted) or Datajack (which is DNI-connected by itself) can induce information directly into your brain as different senses to allow VR and AR. So there should be no need for an Image Link to see AR etc.
Unfortunately SmartLink needs a special SmartLink vision enhancement and a Image Link to be used.
Using a simsense module + DNI instead of Image Link might work (allthough it's not directly written in the rules), but there isn't a "software-version" of the vision enhancement part (technomancers can thread one^^), so your still stuck with using the traditional hardware solution when using Smartlinks.
My gess that this is only question of time and technological progress. We were able to move from Smartlink contacts implanted in your palm to Smartlink that is just part of your visual augmentation in last 20 years, so IMO this step will logicaly follow quite soon...
-
Ah, so the forum has file attachment. Here is the quick table i made to illustrate the overlap in functionality between simrig, sim module, implants and wearable electronics.
-
???
-
Can one use the full smart gun functionality with just a smart gun and a smart gun link in a set of goggles?
If so, how does all of the thought activated stuff work without any DNI in the loop?
-
You mean...Eject clip, change fire mode...etc?
That was a good one ;)
-
Can one use the full smart gun functionality with just a smart gun and a smart gun link in a set of goggles?
If so, how does all of the thought activated stuff work without any DNI in the loop?
You still need an image link in your goggles for displaying the information. Without DNI there are no other advantages.
-
I see about the image link, but not about the limited features with goggles.
-
I see about the image link, but not about the limited features with goggles.
the eject clip and change mode free actions comes from being able to just think about it rather than locating and flipping a physical switch. With goggles, there is nothing that can turn thought into action.
-
Sounds like a geat candidate for the errata and the next printing. For now though, we're trying to use the rules as written (which say a cyber Smarlink s just "An implatned version of the smartlink enchancement".). Nothing in there about external and internal versions having different capabilities - must be a trode or something that comes with smartlink + image link (which is wacked if you have them in your contact lense :).
-
Sounds like a geat candidate for the errata and the next printing. For now though, we're trying to use the rules as written (which say a cyber Smarlink s just "An implatned version of the smartlink enchancement".). Nothing in there about external and internal versions having different capabilities - must be a trode or something that comes with smartlink + image link (which is wacked if you have them in your contact lense :).
Probably eye-flicker monitoring or something. ;)
-
Sounds like a geat candidate for the errata and the next printing. For now though, we're trying to use the rules as written (which say a cyber Smarlink s just "An implatned version of the smartlink enchancement".). Nothing in there about external and internal versions having different capabilities - must be a trode or something that comes with smartlink + image link (which is wacked if you have them in your contact lense :).
Probably eye-flicker monitoring or something. ;)
like
::) = Eject clip
;) = Set fire mode to Burst fire
>:( = Full Automatic
;D = Single shot
But serriously.
I was also thinking about this kind of controls, like monitoring eye movement and this "eye-flicker monitoring". Also, I recall when reading Starship troopers, that that armor of theirs had controlls atached to mimic muscles etc. well, this is out since Smartlink is strictly eye/sight improvement RAW.
-
Eh. Eye-movement-tracking, with an AR interface hovering next to the weapon itself. Look at the "Change fire mode" button, blink twice, it cycles to the next mode. Look at the "eject magazine" button, blink twice, *pop* out it comes.
That's whether you're using goggles, or cyberyes, IMO. :)
-
Nice toy, but takes ages longer than a thought, probably even longer than just using the switch with the finger already next to it.
-
LOL they droped the difrence between implanted and vision enhancment types of smart link for 4th ed. In eareler ed, you can get goggles but they only provided the bonus to hit, while the cyber implant ganve you full remote control. So it is a case of streamline rules creating a odd logic loop.
-
So it is another case of streamline rules creating a odd logic loop.
Fixed it for you. ;D
-
So it is another case of streamline rules creating a odd logic loop.
Fixed it for you. ;D
LOL i delete that word out becuase when i typed it looked like spelled it wrong and did not feel like looking up the spelling.