Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: shinobix5 on <05-17-12/1205:20>
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I just recently joined a new Shadowrun campaign. The problem I am having is comping up with a character concept that is a good fit for the group in question. The group is an established group. The groups characters are as follows: a human Gunslinger Adept/Face, A dwarf Shaman (combat/support mage), a human Street Samurai very similiar to UmaroIV's Spook, and a recently goblinized Troll Combat Hacker. The group members arent sure what they need outside of the characters present. Any ideas would be helpful as I am drawing a blank as to what to bring to the group.
On a side note, the campaign in question takes place in the early 2050's so I am unable to become a technomancer
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What about a rigger, or a field medic, or even a generalist that's not an essential guy to a mission, but a nice help on most of them?
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Needs more guns.
*Grin*
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Being an EMT during the day myself, let me say that a combat field medic is the most underrated support position ever. Especially if they are big, burly, and able to take a shot or two while patching up mates in the trenches. I'd definitely look into something of the sort were I you.
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I'd suggest either a rigger, another combat character (more dakka is always more better), or a differently-focused magician.
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mattering on what you want to play I'd do:
Easiest to play: Street Sam/Heavy-weapon person.
Medium: Rigger(single vehicle)
Hard: Drone Rigger/Mage
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Looking at your group, I see 1 face, 1 mage, 1 low-key B&E expert, and 1 hacker. Everyone has at some focus on combat as well. That's a fairly well-rounded party.
Assuming everyone is competent at their job, I'll stay away from hacking. Hackers don't combo well* and is fairly expensive to be "good enough" as a backup hacker. You could go face. Faces can often easily teamwork checks and there are some neat cons you can play with two faces. If the shaman is alright at social checks, you get less out of it since he's likely maxing out the teamwork bonus. You can never have enough magic on a team especially since the diversity in spells and powers is so huge. Having a buddy for B&E work is nice since then you have someone to watch your back, but they better be as good as you are or they're a large liability. Being good at combat is always good.
My advice depends on the party's secondary skill set and your desires. How good is the "Spook" and Combat Hacker at logic skills like hardware and first aid? If they're both good at those skills, I'll stay away from logic builds. If they're not, something like the Transhuman Mystic (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Ph6kgrCLolu1XLZNJ58iAcnOBPrNKEzt8HbJifBz0LY/edit) would be a natural fit. If you just want to be a generic "fifth man" jack of all trades style character, the Generalist (https://docs.google.com/document/d/13ozdYUhCaaIBdRAaRV8rOLBnIzHsjxdI31LR60rlXJk/edit) is nice though you can cut back on the hacking parts. The other option is be super-specialized such as the combat monster Bad Enough Trog (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KTX4FC4rl55QILGOfcnc9MTwApiqFbmqlOfLtNRUoxo/edit). If all else fails, being some favor of mage like the Magical Rocker (https://docs.google.com/document/d/1PJhEQj13rguJr9cmlp9dGvTYvMrsr1qGTZTJLTasDJY/edit?authkey=CN2OnoYN&authkey=CN2OnoYN) is always good.
*-There are exceptions. One AR hacker playing distraction can buy a stealthier hacker a lot of time. The GM can also make systems that "require" two hackers as well.
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While they have a fair number of characters with some combat ability, it doesn't seem like they have anyone who packs serious firepower. A Heavy Weapons (or at least Assault Rifle w/ Grenade Launcher) street sam designed to take and dish out serious damage might be just the thing. A little First Aid makes a good icing on the cake.
Alternately, as others have said, it seems like they don't have a real rigger. A getaway driver and some drone support (which can also add some firepower) might come in handy. And while the hacker can probably do Hardware, he probably doesn't have Mechanics skills in case the car breaks down.
And of course, you can never have enough mages with access to enough different spells for different occassions.
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Keeping in theme with the rigger thing. You could make a spider. I've always thought those were cool.
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Most of the suggestions so far have been very good for you, and it really boils down to what you want to play.
In order of easiest to build/play to hardest, here are my suggestions:
Mr. Overwatch - Scout/Sniper with high Perception/Infiltration. Lets you provide detailed surveillance while at the same time offering a very very unique combat advantage in certain situations. Can be done effectively with just about any firearm skill if you play your cards right. A slight modification. Good for getting to know the system.
Mr. Bland - Really a slight twist on Mr. Overwatch, Mr. Bland is very skilled at perception and infiltration but further specializes in palming, disguise, and shadowing as well (seriously consider an invisible way adept if your GM allows Way of the Adept to be used going this route). His main expertise is going to be legwork, and being on scene without appearing to be on scene. Works best if specializing in small weapons like pistols, smgs, and or blades.
Mr. Utility - Two ways to play this. One is a generalist that is adequate, but not great, in a lot of skills but can provide teamwork bonuses for most skills. The other is the utility mage. Take spells that add new options or just flat out buffs for you team mates and work on helping them out. Takes a certain mindset to help others always shine in the spotlight rather than doing it yourself though.
Mr. Arm Y. Ofone - The rigger. With the right selection of skills and a good command program you can provide extremely good support and/or teamwork for a range of skills from the comfort of your van while also being able to call upon a literal army of drones to protect you. With the right setup you can actually issue orders to multiple drones that are as capable as spec ops members complete with the firepower.
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Mr. Overwatch - Scout/Sniper with high Perception/Infiltration. Lets you provide detailed surveillance while at the same time offering a very very unique combat advantage in certain situations. Can be done effectively with just about any firearm skill if you play your cards right. A slight modification. Good for getting to know the system.
I would just like to testify that this concept is ridiculously lethal any time a set of targets is out in the open or (with heavier guns) behind thin walls. Just be sure to get something to see through walls for maximum usefulness.
The big advantage here is that, since you'll have high Agility anyway, you can easily out-Infiltrate the opposition since they'll be taking all sorts of penalties to spot you several hundred yards off. That means you're always catching them flat-footed. With a standard Elf, you can easily end up slinging something like 16 dice after a +4/-4 and before Take Aim. That's 5-6 hits, 100% going to Net Hits.
Once you get a couple mods and a Barret M-121, loaded with APDS / AV / AT Ammo (in ascending order of awesomeness), you're doing 13P AP -8 or -10. 18P on average, after adding hits. Twice a pass, every pass.
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[Once you get a couple mods and a Barret M-121, loaded with APDS / AV / AT Ammo (in ascending order of awesomeness), you're doing 13P AP -8 or -10. 18P on average, after adding hits. Twice a pass, every pass.
Or Heavy Weapons with a Gauss Rifle or an Assault Canon ;)
Rasmus
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What about a Tech Wiz/Drone Rigger with much more technical skills than the Troll Combat Hacker your group has? Someone who could break through any lock or security measure, repair every vehicle, give lots of support with an army of drones...
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[Once you get a couple mods and a Barret M-121, loaded with APDS / AV / AT Ammo (in ascending order of awesomeness), you're doing 13P AP -8 or -10. 18P on average, after adding hits. Twice a pass, every pass.
Or Heavy Weapons with a Gauss Rifle or an Assault Canon ;)
Yeah, a Gauss Rifle has better AP on things like Citymasters, Tanks, and Heavy Armor Trolls but it's a lot bigger, heavier, and would need a Silence spell to not get noticed rather easily after the first shot. The Assault Cannon's AV ammo is insanely expensive, which means it's +1 DV is offset by the lesser AP... plus it has the same noise issues as the Gauss Rifle.
Also, a Barrett just gets the cops after you. A Gauss Rifle or Assault Cannon gets the army. ;)
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I I was a cop and somebody shoot in my general vicinity with a barrett I would scream for attack helicopters while I ran for heavy cover ;)
Heavy weapons has other nice options that longarms can't give (I'm not much of a shotgun fan).
Rasmus
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I I was a cop and somebody shoot in my general vicinity with a barrett I would scream for attack helicopters while I ran for heavy cover ;)
Heavy weapons has other nice options that longarms can't give (I'm not much of a shotgun fan).
Remember, you don't know WHAT it is... because it's silenced and about 0.5-1.5 km away, hidden in the roof-line. All you get is the zip-crack of the bullet, someone's head exploding or their or chest being torn open, and a divot in the backstop. If a sniper is even moderately good at Infiltration you'll never get the hits on your massively-penalized Perception roll to spot him before either you die or he packs up and bails, so the Attack Choppers have nowhere to go.
An Assault Cannon class weapon, for contrast, makes one hell of a boom and a flash, giving the position away pretty much with the first shot, giving the Attack Choppers a place to aim. It also turns targets into clouds of giblets and gore and blows huge holes/craters in whatever was behind the target. It is, according to the fluff about what it fires, quite literally like being bombarded by a tank.
Yeah, in the rules they're about as effective as each other, with a Gauss Rifle having an edge in the AP department, but the style of long-range support with Heavy Weapons make way more of an impression. "Unknown Sniper Kills Five Security Guards During Lab Robbery." is a very different headline than "Unknown Terrorist Devastates Research Facility With Cannon Barrage." Hence the Police / Army divide.
A Full-auto grenade launcher has the same problem... i.e. putting you in the "kill it with missiles" category of dangerous.
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I think some people forget that Damage doesn't matter as much as results. I'd have to go with a Sniper rifle unless I am setting up to take down a military convoy column. Heavy weapons at long range do have some advantages, but usually more in the HMG department IMO at least.
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I I was a cop and somebody shoot in my general vicinity with a barrett I would scream for attack helicopters while I ran for heavy cover ;)
Heavy weapons has other nice options that longarms can't give (I'm not much of a shotgun fan).
Rasmus
I believe his point is that the Barrett 121 is silenced.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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The role can be played by anyone. A good disguised overwatch can be playing hobo just offsite waiting to bring out an SMG or Pistol. He can be tucked away in a firing position with anything from a sport rifle to a grenade launcher (hell might as well just say the best way to build him is with a target designator for a THOR shot, that's the most effective sniping weapon right?).
People always seem to look at Longarms as sniper rifles or shotguns and overlook that you can use sport rifles close range too. You can get 7/8P with -5 AP out of a sport rifle with little issue. At the point that most dedicated marksmen characters roll, that usually becomes 11/12P/ -5 AP (+4/-4) with 3-4 hits in a situation where the enemy is aware. At these points it's pretty much just a matter of by what degree you kill the guy.
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That degree is very important.
There is no overkill.
There is never enough dakka.
Rasmus 8)
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People always seem to look at Longarms as sniper rifles or shotguns and overlook that you can use sport rifles close range too. You can get 7/8P with -5 AP out of a sport rifle with little issue.
For that matter, Battle Rifles are Longarms that are explicitly designed to walk the line between sniper rifle and assault rifle, functional at both close quarters and long range, with burst fire for extra damage.
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Battle rifles are Automatics, not Longarms.
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I was going to argue the point, since it didn't say either way in War where the battle rifles were introduced, but then I found it listed as an afterthought in a footnote in Gun Heaven.
Not how I would have classified weapons with "the range of sporting rifles" that "are between assault rifles and sniper rifles" when none of them even have an automatic fire mode and some don't ever have burst fire, but it is the RAW.
So instead I will note that certain sniper rifles, like the Walther MA-2100, don't suffer from the problems of using them in a running firefight that most sniper rifles do, much the same as the aforementioned sporting rifles, but with better range and AP. So taking a specialization in sniper rifles doesn't necessarily have to impede your CQC capabilities.
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The real problem of longarms isn't lacking weapons that are good in a close quarters firefight, although that isn't because of the Walther. SA weapons with a high damage code are just not as good as FA weapons with good recoil compensation. The actual weapon you use as a Longarms user for CQC the Auto-Assault 16, the one shotgun that doesn't blow trolls because it has magical gas vents.
The actual place Longarms come up short is having any useful concealable weapons. The one concealable longarm is the Defiance T-250, which is so-so concealable and really bad at life. Ironically, even Heavy Weapons has better concealable options; the ArmTech MGL-6 is a pretty rad gun.
The reason why Longarms are kind of bad is that they give you large, unconcealable weapons...but generally not as good as Heavy Weapons. The one and only selling point (aside from CR-appropriate police encounters, if your GM rolls like that) of Longarms is the ability to get the longest range silenced weapon in the game; Heavy Weapons can get weapons that are the same range, better damage, and not silenced, and Automatics can get weapons that are slightly less damage (but have FA), less range, and still silenced, but neither can do both. How useful that one trick is really depends on your GM.
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On the other hand, if the Battle Rifles are Automatics, then that means that there's a weapon for the Automatics skill with the range of a sporting rifle: 750 meters. Not as good as a sniper rifle or assault cannon, perhaps, but not shabby, either. After all, how often are you going to get a clear line of sight further than three-quarters of a kilometer in an urban environment? Throw in assault rifles for the full-auto close-quarters damage and machine pistols for concealed carry (love that FN 5-7C with the two points of recoil comp), and you have options for most situations.
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Personally if my character has longarms, he has the clubs skill. Because turning that shotgun into a baseball bat makes such a sweet sound when it cracks skulls.
Longarms based characters should not have to worry about concealability. I know that my characters based in rifles have some supplementary skills (Usually Automatics) and a talent for infiltrating or talking like a beast. So I tend to run a casual mix: Automatic pistol+Longarm. Keep the shotgun/rifle at home for the meet or the public part of the run, break it out with prejudice during the run.
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For that matter, I just got a chance to look through the new Gun Heaven 2 download, and there were some shotguns in there that looked surprisingly compact--probably on par with an SMG for concealability--while still being classified as Longarms.
Of course, this whole issue is what the Firearms Group is for: so you can be good with all the guns. (Except the heavy weapons. :'( )
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It's a flavor vs. mechanics thing. A lot of people feel that the firearms group is just too redundant (3 ways to roll agility+ranged rather than just 1 or 2). The sad fact of it is that Automatics really can cover pretty much ever scenario except for shots over 825 meters (Battle Rifle with Barrel Extension) or tiny weapons. Even then, a short barreled machine pistol is a conceal of 1, with chameleon coating that whops it to a -3.
Of course the main issue is that the automatics skill even exists. Shooting a rifle is shooting a rifle. People claim "Oh...the recoil makes it different," and things along that line, but firing an AR, BR, SMG, or MP in Semi-Auto just like a normal pistol, carbine, rifle, etc. still uses the automatics skill.
To further that, Battle rifles should have been longarms. There are BF pistols that aren't automatics so obviously BF alone isn't what makes something considered automatics instantly. Battle Rifles have the same base damage code as sporting rifles and the same range as sporting rifles, I see no reason for the automatics skill governing them other than random Dev decision 28 (AKA the dart board).
As for concealable longarms, a barrel reduction (-1), a sling (-1/-2), and a Lined Coat (-2) go a long way for bringing them into a concealable range. Tossing chameleon coating into the mix makes them easier to conceal than most stock pistols.
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Seeing as it has been almost 2 weeks since the OP posted with no reply... Not sure if he got his answer..
My two cents? If the party is rocking without you... play what you want.
I mean, honestly.. as long as you have armor on (since you are another target for that extra 3 guys in the enemy crack team after you) and a weapon of some sort (magic, guns, drones, etc) who cares what role you fill. The options for you are boundless.
It's like when someone asks me when we start up a campaign ( not just shadowrun), I tell them to play what they want, we will adapt as a group and so will the GM. No healer in the party... ok we hire one, or be assigned one by the GM. Easy.
Now that is said... Like Narrator mentioned... Nothing wrong with having a heavy weapons specialist armed to the teeth with rockets, missiles, grenades, c4, etc. 16P damage will kill most people.
An Adept having like 20/20 armor on him at all times makes for a fantastic target, while you can have different skills.
Or a mage with Makeover, Sterilize and Cure Disease and open up a shop in his spare time doing makeovers, dental hygiene, curing herpes and cleaning up crime scenes. I think I am going to use that one :P
Most of all, have fun. You can have a "level 1" character 6 missions in before you can afford to raise your primary stats/abilities, initiation , etc. That is what makes Shadowrun cool... The guy you make for 400bp is good for months. Imagine a mage who went through enough missions to earn 200 Karma...He has 7 Magic, and initiated once.. that's pretty much it and maybe...maybe bound a power focus 4 to himself.
TLDR - Have fun.