Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Maded on <05-22-12/1126:34>
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Maybe it isn't my place to tell a player how to build their character, but...
The social adept with Magic 5 and negligible combat skills who wasted most of that Magic to get Improved Reflexes II instead of focusing on, well, social stuff.
The Manipulation/Illusion Mage with no other combat abilities to speak of (including spells) who wastes a spell slot at chargen on Improved Reflexes II AND buys a sustaining focus to go with it.
I've tried to point these things out politely in the form of suggestions, and in response I'm pretty much getting shrugs. I'm trying not to become too annoyed with that.
But the whole gaming the system to get abilities that really wouldn't be consistent with the character concept as presented in conjunction with the rest of the characters' build kinda is annoying.
So I decided to just say no, and told them to spend the points elsewhere instead of the Increased Reflexes.
And then, of course, there is the rigger who thinks that Demolitions skill is more important than something like, say, Electronic Warfare. Pointing out that his boat he's so proud of building WILL, in all probability, get hacked if this remains the case doesn't even make a dent...
Gotta love your players.
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"If only someone had WARNED US!"
-- Your Players, three sessions later.
In Shadowrun, our group has taken to establishing a grace period for people to unjack their builds, as well as running some mock combats/situations prior to kicking things off for real.
Sometimes it takes a shakedown run for people to see the blind spots in their builds.
After that...well...that's down to individual GMs as to how benevolent they are toward character's shortcomings.You have voiced your concerns, outright denied the stuff you totally disagree with, offered suggestions...
...they have no one to blame but themselves when the sky falls.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I see you have two choices,
1. Let them play their characters and brutal beat them down. Such as hack the boat and send them into UCAS controlled harbor security..... "evil laugh" uhahahahhahahahha! ;D
2.Make them play pre-constructed characters until they learn they're lessons.
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Maybe Your Players need some "Learning by Boing "(boing as in getting hit on the Head ;) )
HougH!
Medicineman
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Sad part is that they are usually better than this at chargen and SR4 is not new to them at all. Been running games for most of this group since it came out periodically.
All it took for the two magic-types to build the way they did at first, from what I now understand, is the Gnome rigger from the last game, who had no Reaction 'wares, ending up with one Pass in every combat. Thing is, he never jumped in and went VR with his vehicle, he always tried to run in on foot and fight alongside the sams of the team. Coupled with a low Movement, he rarely did much in combat because he spent the whole time running up with a monowire whip towards the badguys.
But why they'd want to use that as a reason, being based upon illogical choices by another player, I can't fathom.
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Okay, so the rigger wants to be a vault-jacker, uncovering submerged treasures, thus the Demolitions skill. I thought about approaching Electronic Warfare this way with him.
He already has Hardware and Software skills that can assist with breaking into a vault. Electronic Warfare would help him with tagging the vaults he wants to uncover, hiding his presence from authorities and other vault jackers trying to hijack his claims, and the use of sensor suites that would come in handy for a vault-jacker.
Sound like a reasonable approach?
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The guy playing the Sam in this game is kinda amused, considering that he's built his char around a "street level" concept and has Wired I. This will mean that, with their current builds, the unskilled non-combatant magic-types will have more passes than his char.
"So their chars are going to run around screaming like little girls more times than I will be able to shoot the guys chasing them around screaming 'Geek the Mages!'. More power."
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and that right there is exactly why you should let them have the builds.
"why does our combat take so long?"
cause the one guy effective in combat has to chase his damn targets chasing the mages all over the area,
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and that right there is exactly why you should let them have the builds.
"why does our combat take so long?"
cause the one guy effective in combat has to chase his damn targets chasing the mages all over the area,
This, my friend, has earned you +1 in my book ;) might be pretty funny, but I hate long combat lol. It will end up short and rather deadly.
But a question comes to mind that I'm sure the Sam will end up asking, and I don't recall seeing an answer anywhere.
Are the effects of combat drugs stackable with Wired?
I can already see the Sam becoming an addict trying to deal with this situation, lol.
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oh don't get me wrong, the 2nd or 3rd time it happened, there would be claymores in every corner.
long drawn out (for no reason) combat is my worst hatred.
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Well i think this falls under the category that you can lead a horse to water, but you can't force them to drink. Be fair but don't pull punches i'd say and see how it goes. >.> maybe give them an example of a team that works really well together as an opposing team that whoops them by being build to compliment eachother?
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Are the effects of combat drugs stackable with Wired?
If you mean 'Will they get more IPs?", then by RAW, no.
That said, most GMs I know say that it should and do allow it. I agree with them.
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I see you have two choices,
1. Let them play their characters and brutal beat them down. Such as hack the boat and send them into UCAS controlled harbor security..... "evil laugh" uhahahahhahahahha! ;D
Even better - PCC hackers take control of the boat. They bring it in to their (tiny) harbor area in LA. See the demolitions gear. Open up with the big guns because demos are outlawed in PCC territory, period (this is from 2e but I'll let that stand for 4e as well), and they think the boat is wired to blow. The PCs, who are in light armor (because PCC law strictly forbids heavier armor among private citizens as well), are mostly chewed up. The mages may have three passes, sure, but they have no skills to contribute to the fight anyway, other than their Increased Reflexes. If they do make any sort of trouble, the Pathfinders jump in as soon as they sense any magical activity.
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Are the effects of combat drugs stackable with Wired?
If you mean 'Will they get more IPs?", then by RAW, no.
Thanks. I'm having some trouble locating the ruling, but I'll just post it as a house rule...
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Are the effects of combat drugs stackable with Wired?
If you mean 'Will they get more IPs?", then by RAW, no.
Thanks. I'm having some trouble locating the ruling, but I'll just post it as a house rule...
I believe it's under the most Initiative boosters don't stack section. Reaction enhancer the bioware is stated to work for example with wired reflexes. I don't think there's a clear cut and dry part of the book that flat out tells you that, i allow the iniative pass to stack but not from multiple drugs. Just 1 additional though most of my players don't pop drugs so it hasn't been an issue.