Shadowrun
Catalyst Game Labs => Catalyst's Shadowrun Products => Topic started by: Zen Shooter on <05-22-12/1330:09>
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I cannot overcome twenty-three years of conditioning to buy the new Shadowrun books, even though I have been suckered several times now with the substandard products Catalyst has been extruding for SR4A.
Gun Heaven 2 is organized like Mil Spec Tech, divided into sections by manufacturer, and then each individual weapon is listed in the PDF bookmarks by name. That's terrible. Do the people who produce Shadowrun ever play roleplaying games?
The organization should follow the Arsenal model - weapons grouped by type, then listed by name. Pistols: Pistol 1, Pistol 2, etc. Because four times out of five, players and GMs say, I need a pistol for this character. Then they go browse the pistol section. The one time out of five they're saying, I need the stats for a PHP-131 heavy pistol, they can still easily find it in the Pistol section, listed under its name.
As it is with Gun Heaven 2, I am looking in the PDF bookmarks for an assault rifle. I find the Terracotta Caravan. Is it an assault rifle? I don't know. I have to go look at the individual entry. The awkward workaround is to search the document for the word "Pistol".
I cannot remember a player ever saying to me, I want a gun manufactured by Renraku. I don't care what kind of gun, as long as Renraku made it. Why can't the gun book be subdivided by manufacturer?
This slipshod and farcical organization makes gamemastering harder, not easier. It is an insult and an embarrassment to this old and august game line.
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Honestly? If that is your problem, a simpler fix would be to separate the tables at the back of the book into weapon types. Frankly, I like the layout of Gun Heaven, and Gun Heaven 2, because they give a bit of atmosphere to the piece. Remember, just because you don't like something doesn't mean that no one else does. Laying it out in catalog form is a nice, in character way of viewing the info. But I do agree having the tables organized better would be nice.
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Depends on the product. A pure game suppliment would, obviously, be set up as you mentioned, with pistols ETC in sections. A more realistic catelogue will, instead, group by manufacturer. If you grab a copy of Previews, for instance, the groupings are by publishing house (DC, Marvel, etc) rather than by type (Super Hero, Western, Harem Comedy, etc) ... Brand loyalty is a Thing.
Heck, for years... no, for *decades* I've wanted to see the Battletech line start listing mechs by primary House affiliation, rather than tonnage. If I want to know what mech models the Draconis COmbine is fielding, I want to be able to turn to the Draconis section of a book and grab the mechs for a unit from there, rather than flipping through all the lights, then all the mediums, and so on.
Different people have different mental filing systems is what I'm ultimately trying to say.
That said, and while I didn't work on the product, I want to thank you for buying it and for passing on comments, be they negative or positive. Silence is the one thing that's unbearable.
As an aside, would you mind dropping a list of, say, five books that are set up in a way that you think is quite useful to you? Not a "Must Have" thing like Augmentation or Unwired, but suppliments from any edition of Shadowrun where you can point at and go, "This, right here? This is what a sourcebook should look like." Always helps to know what people are looking for.
-- Wak
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Wakshaani,
Arsenal is generally considered a must-have, but its organization format is highly useful and easy to reference, as I mentioned in my original post. I need my gaming books to be fast and easy to refer while I am preparing and running my games. And I know that some people buy the books just for the pleasure of reading them, but good organization doesn't make the books less fun to read.
Bad examples of equipment catalog organization include Milspec Tech, Unfriendly Skies, et al., because they're the same format as Gun Heaven 2. The equipment section of Spy Games is a disaster of organization, with highly technical pieces of equipment listed in no particular order, often without even a bold face heading to distinguish the entries so I have to hunt for them by scanning whole paragraphs.
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So, more on Gun Heaven 2...
I'm not sure that SR needed several new light pistol designs.
The new Deathdealer ammunition type makes no sense at all. It's 45 nuyen per round, it's very hard to find, and it gives only +1 dice pool, which is trivially small to most street samurai and mercenary characters. I saw this huge cost plus high availability for very small return formula in Parabotany, too. Who is really going to pay 20,000 nuyen for a temporary +1 Initiative with the Cat's Haste paint?
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Heck, for years... no, for *decades* I've wanted to see the Battletech line start listing mechs by primary House affiliation, rather than tonnage. If I want to know what mech models the Draconis COmbine is fielding, I want to be able to turn to the Draconis section of a book and grab the mechs for a unit from there, rather than flipping through all the lights, then all the mediums, and so on.
TRO: 3075
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Zen, I'm going to say this as nicely as I can. Some people do things not to be the most uber they can, but for the style of it. And some of the new guns definitely have style.
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Zen, I'm going to say this as nicely as I can. Some people do things not to be the most uber they can, but for the style of it. And some of the new guns definitely have style.
Style (world inhabiting) gaming seems to have gone out the window. These days if your not playing to tell some elaborate, heart tugging, story with your table mates you play to win, MMO sense.
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Yes, but there are some of us who enjoy a healthy middle ground between the two. We often run afoul of the GMs who slant more to one side or another, for obvious reasons.
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Yes, but there are some of us who enjoy a healthy middle ground between the two. We often run afoul of the GMs who slant more to one side or another, for obvious reasons.
Wait wait wait. You mean instead of hardcore gamers, we might have ... *gasp* CASUALS?!
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Yes. Also known as "people who just want to have fun".
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Style still has an important place in my games, and my characters.
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Not that I ever get to play. Just GM.
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Why does the Shiawase Riot Guard shotgun has (1) RC? It is from an unmentioned shockpad or stock?
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Mirikon...dont take it as an offence, Im just jesting here, but I just went through chararacters you have listed in your signature, and I found alarming lack of light pistols (at least when they are not burst fire capable and have some other benefits). You may work harder on your "style" philosophy ;)
As for the book, I wrote it in other thread related to it. Very few new ideas, just copypasta with different title and fluff text. Every armorer using Arsenal rules is able to create versatile and interresting weapons, well it seems those guys dont work for companies that supply the market.
And that Riser guy... :)
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'Style' doesn't mean 'only uses light pistols'. Take Iceblade, for instance. I've got versions of him where he has, literally, 8 blades on his person at any one time, all with custom engraving and AR sculpts.
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Colt Peacemaker has style, and it's a heavy pistol. ;D
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Colt Peacemaker has style, and it's a heavy pistol. ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dF6HIiWCh7k
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I looked at the Onotari Urban Hunter and some of the fluff implies you can use Anti-vehicle rounds, yet due to RAW you can't since all it can fire is High Power ones.
Is that a typo or wishful thinking?
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I was confused with this even in War, well this never come to my mind to ask, thanx for reminding...I got an idea, that high power ammo is ammo modification that can be combined with others...like High power APDS, High power flechettte etc etc...and High power AV. Otherwise it is kind of useless IMO...
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Indeed, High Power would be much more useful if it was an ammo mod, with a +x availability and +y cost. Unfortunately, as written, it is not.
As for guns, one thing I would love to see is more weapons like the Sakura Fubuki. Metal Storm (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TXECU3YKMfI) scaled down to a pistol size? How can you not love it? And yes, that is the entire reason I use the Fubuki so much on my characters. Everything else about the gun is icing on the cake.