Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Glorthoron on <06-30-12/0800:14>
-
I wanted to start up this thread so us GMs could have an opportunity to share ideas on security that isn't listed in the books.
The first that comes to mind for me is in reference to the barriers. They talk about fences, barb wire, etc, but why not tall thorn bushes, maybe even magically active or genetically engineered to have razor thorns.
Also, they mention HVAC, but something they fail to mention is mist humidification. Often, in ventilation systems, to ensure that outside air coming into the building is the proper humidity, mist is sprayed in the ducts. This also works in reverse, if the temp of the water is cold, it can cool and dehumidify the air. This would be a great way to snag up runners coming in this way. Especially if they are wearing a chameleon suit, and the water was coloured.
-
An old favorite with a bit of a modern twist. Take one high security area inside a building. People who are supposed to be there get stealth RFID tags saying they have permission. Motion sensors on an isolated system inside the secure area, with backup power generator. Anything bigger than a rat moves, and doesn't have an RFID tag, corrosion foam sent through the vents. Basically, take the idea from Deus's white floors, and add on the 'safety' setting, so you don't melt valuable researchers.
-
The 3rd edition book mentions natural perimeter barriers, including hedges. One security idea I enjoy listed in there is infarared security lighting, invisible to most, but bright as day to the guards equipped with thermographic vision. Works well in conjunction with things like big open areas and lit up areas.
I like to use friendly conversations with security forces to probe at the runners. For example, in a recent run a security agent asked this Fomori runner if he was part of the Initiative Project, after a few easy questions about his visit to the corp site. (He had a very good fake id and visitor pass) He answered yes. Well, there was no Initiative Project and by answering yes, he made the agent suspicious.
-
To dip a toe the other way, a big note on security is that while scads of this stuff exists, it isn't used as much as you might think. Today's methods are pretty dang advanced, for instance, but are also expensive. Spend too much on security and there goes your bottom line. Most of today's banks don't have on-site security guards, for instance, and the cameras mostly watch the tellers, to make sure that they're not stealing at the counter (Which is where most theft is) ... the number watching for outsider crime is usually one at the entrance and a second at the drive-through. There's probably an alarm that's turned on when the managers leave. Past that? Pretty much nothing.
Most ordinary places in 2073 won't be invulnerable box forts. Instead, they'll have a camera to record who comes and goes, a PanicButton (tm) to call for Knight Errant, an alarm for when they leave, and maybe roll-down shutters to keep vandals from smashing the windows up when nobody's there.
Of course, Shadowrunners tend to want to go to places that aren't ordinary, BUT. :)
If you crank up the Orwell too much, with cameras everywhere running face-recognition tech, security in large numbers that pops up at the drop of a chemsniffer, and any stray hair, skin cell, or drop of blood leading to your being tracked down by security mages, well, most players won't have fun. *Some* will, but most, not so much.
-
Actually, cameras are pretty much everywhere in the downtown area of most (non-feral) sprawls. The problem is that, in addition to jurisdictional issues (Horizon affiliate isn't going to hand tape over to an Azzie affiliate), there is simply TOO MUCH DATA.
-
I second what Wakshaani said. Security is there to protect the really important stuff, not the front foyer of the corp's secondary office in Podunk UCAS. I usually use the salvage rule of thumb where if the cost to recover is more than a certain percentage value of the thing, then it is better just to let it go than pay the salvage cost.
Put another way, if the Johnson is paying the runners 25,000¥ (not each) for a job, then the item he is after is only worth about 250,000¥ and security on the item should reflect that value. Acid spraying vents just aren't going to be used on those sort of things. Of course there could be other factors involved like taking an item or destroying it could cost the company more in R&D costs or something, or allows the Johnson's corp to get their rival product out sooner or something.
As rule of thumb though, this works pretty well for us and helps keep the security to reasonable levels without making everything a cake walk.
-
Blatantly lethal alarms and traps seem ridiculous to me. The more acid-shooting, laser-cutting, and murdergas-pumping crap they add the higher the overhead, the lower the bottom line, and the more likely an accident can happen.
I'm sure the corps and their security designers remember Deus and fear technomancers.
-
Remember, just because cameras are there, doesnt mean they work. In the years I've worked private security, I've seen lots of dummy cameras in place only to deter minor criminals. Sure, the Doc Wagon facility's security is legit, but the Stuffer Shack? Or even higher profile places like streer cameras, dormitories, civilian factories? At least a quarter or more of those cameras were either installed for show, or stopped working a long time ago and were left for show.
-
Blatantly lethal alarms and traps seem ridiculous to me. The more acid-shooting, laser-cutting, and murdergas-pumping crap they add the higher the overhead, the lower the bottom line, and the more likely an accident can happen.
I'm sure the corps and their security designers remember Deus and fear technomancers.
Yeah, we had a GM who ran us on a mission to break into an MCT facility and get a something-or-other. The place was topped with monowire.
We cut it, used a monowire spool, and took several hundred meters of teh stuff, left, and hocked it for twice what the run itself would have paid.
...
Not terribly *professional*, but hey. :)
-
Blatantly lethal alarms and traps seem ridiculous to me. The more acid-shooting, laser-cutting, and murdergas-pumping crap they add the higher the overhead, the lower the bottom line, and the more likely an accident can happen.
I'm sure the corps and their security designers remember Deus and fear technomancers.
Yeah, we had a GM who ran us on a mission to break into an MCT facility and get a something-or-other. The place was topped with monowire.
We cut it, used a monowire spool, and took several hundred meters of teh stuff, left, and hocked it for twice what the run itself would have paid.
...
Not terribly *professional*, but hey. :)
Hey, we once had a 5,000¥-each nuyen job to hassle a factory to get the company to shut down. Part of our plan involved rerouting deliveries to a warehouse, which we'd rented under a fake name to use as the drop spot.
After the split, we made something like 50,000¥ each... ten times what we got paid for the job... and, after we tapped out our contacts' bankrolls, we still had enough truckloads left to "buy" a bunch of extra Loyalty by spreading the remaining goods around as freebies, just to get rid of the stuff before it could be traced.
-
Monowire. Monowire EVERYTHING.
(The hacker in my game currently has a house that is protected, at all times, by no less than 500 feet of monowire grids and whip-traps. Scariest thing I've heard described after the Renraku Arcology)
-
Never over look the simple guard at the door checking IDs :D with all the technology that is in use in the 2070s, this may seem to be the most useless waste of time, but it's amazing what can come of it :D
My players team consists of a PhysAd troll, Gunbunny elf, human face, human merc. Human hacker. They were to infiltrate a secure compound, grab the digital and physical info on a new commlink (a bonus if they could get a working copy of the commlink, or failing that, destroy said 'link) but they only had a 3 day window!
First day they plan and learn where in the building they needed to go... All runners had their assigned tasks. However, they needed a biometric key card to access where the work/records where.
Second day morning: face cons his way into the building and is able to snag a key card from an employee... But it's a female troll! the team spends the rest of the days reworking their plan, and getting the hacker to adjust the info on the card to match the biometrics of the troll.... But they can't do much about the picture on it! (not enough time or the right equipment for how short of time they have left)
"no problem, you just insert the card, stand in the scan area, and your in!" they think. So they go ahead with the run.
The hacker is in the lobby faking a electrical repair man (reason to be playing with wires while hard hacking security as well and software hacking) the face is impersonating a bigwig from an other department and throwing a fit to act as a destraction for physical security. The Merc and Elf are acting as personal assisstant and bodyguard to the face. The Troll is walking into the secure area to get the goods.
Well, turns out, the hard copy of the data is in a maglocked room.... Guess who can't hack/re-wire a maglock? So the hacker goes to work and tries to unlock the door from in the system... And glitches... So, in a moment of desperation, decides to crash the entire thing while shorting out the electrical for the building... Electrocuting himself (6p damage). Door is open troll walks in, finds the info, makes for the doors with all the other employees (powers off, have to evac)... Right towards to 4 armed guards matching faces to key cards.... Things got interesting.
-
1st things 1st how much security do you want ,and how experienced are your players? Other then that how much do you want to put in your game, on a scale of 1-10 on counter intelligence?
1. Off the top of my head get coporate security handbook and corporate shadowfiles. Both are old books but i am sure you can find them. Upgrade them to 4E, great resources to understand how it all works, well worth it.
2, Grab a real high security briefing report off the net. Here read this http://forum.rpg.net/archive/index.php/t-235629.html its a start.
3, Might i suggest http://forums.dumpshock.com/index.php?showtopic=23034
4. Largely over looked but do real research on wifi, tech, and security. I also sugest you spring it ingame to players threw contacts/research/data searches. It helps them learn with out you having to give' em homework the size of war and peace... ok maybe not that big but you get the idea.
I think thats a good start. If you want to get down to brass tacks and ivory tusks, of service providers for comm links. Flipping ID's and all that jazz let me know. i also suggest grabing lonestar book and converting it to 4e then up grade tech. Always fun to have PC's worrie about cops and corps 8) Another tid bit cameras like on the street or in a convenience store will work with the fuzz .Only the bigger company's AA and AAA will tell the cops to kick rocks.
Here is the low down from shadowrun wiki - All AAA-rated and most AA-rated corporations also exhibit a privilege known as “extraterritoriality”, meaning that any land owned by the corp is sovereign territory only to the corp and immune to any laws of the country within. Corporate territory is not foreign soil but corporate soil, just like its employees are corporate citizens, though dual citizenship in a corporation and a nation is common.
-
I would venture that actually camera - computer security is very prevalent. Even nowadays, a casino can happily run anyone in the casino against facial recognition. and its usually pre-linked to a black-book of personas non grata. Its just a matter of processing power not being there to run every face that comes down the chute, forcing the security staff to decide "hemm, he looks like a card counter". By 2072, processing power is pretty cheap. Definitely cheap enough that entry or exit to a restricted area, which maybe sees a few hundred go by in a day, could run it on everyone. Don't show up on the approved list? Security officer bob gets a little alert that says "Should this person be here?" And this is cheap. Cameras, a few processing cycles, and bingo bango.
I envision more of a "mobile defense" strategy from corps when the costs go up. Unless its a hard site or VIP protection, I would imagine that most of the systems are really just tripwires and delays. Rather than keeping HTR teams on every building, and rigging it with poison vents, minefields, machinegun nests and spirits, set it with sensors, locks, the occasional drone, and minimal metahuman presence. T
The whole point is to:
A) Let the appropriate element know something is wrong, and see what they want to commit to the problem. This is where the cameras, sensors, ID cards, and minimal human/drone presence come in.
and B) Allow a response to reach there in time. Mostly locks, doors, vault timers on the macguffin (ten minute non-ovverrideable delay like a modern bank vault for example) and things of that nature. God forbid the spider freezes the elevators and the runners have to actually run up 12 tall stories.
Especially when you consider say, MCT Seattle is unlikely to have multiple major crises a night. If you can just hold up a team for a 2-3 minutes after there's a known issue, you can get active surveillance via wage-mage and drone on the exits to allow a counterattack, plus you can start live feeding info to the guys who are going to make the big decisions.
Somewhere in the sprawl is a small ready center, operating the lethal stuff. The on-call HTR team, the machinegun drones, the electronic warfare guru, the on call hack team, that sort of thing. They simply exist, to be employed when the decision makers say yes/no/maybe. Now MCT Seattle can send a wide array of appropriate responses based on the situation, and for much, much cheaper than fortifying every warehouse.
95% of the time they probably just tag the runners, maintain surveillance, and guide the KE on to the criminals. Then a corporate rep bullies/bribes/lawyerizes to get the stuff back, and a at a fraction of the cost of sending a T-Bird thundering down the street, autocannoning the office, and then having a squad of wired to to the gills commandos duke it out with a runner team inside corporate property. the other 5% of the time - man, hope your johnson told you that this was a big one, yeah?
-
I don't think that would work quite as effectively as you think. Based on SR4 rules, Shadowrunners can be in, grab what they need, and be out in a matter of minutes. A 10 minute response time wouldn't result in much more than the HTR team saying "Hey! Where did the bad guys go?"
That, of course, is only my opinion.
-
I don't think that would work quite as effectively as you think. Based on SR4 rules, Shadowrunners can be in, grab what they need, and be out in a matter of minutes. A 10 minute response time wouldn't result in much more than the HTR team saying "Hey! Where did the bad guys go?"
That, of course, is only my opinion.
Which is, really, how it should work, unless they get pinned down. Just look at the real-world equivalent of Shadowrunners... a military commando unit. Guys like Navy SEALs are generally in, out, and gone before anyone knows what's hit them except for major SNAFUs.
-
I envision more of a "mobile defense" strategy from corps when the costs go up. Unless its a hard site or VIP protection, I would imagine that most of the systems are really just tripwires and delays. Rather than keeping HTR teams on every building, and rigging it with poison vents, minefields, machinegun nests and spirits, set it with sensors, locks, the occasional drone, and minimal metahuman presence.
Yes, exactly, over the years my games have developed this way, and not just for the corps. Rather than try to challenge the players with equal firepower or trying to scare them of with superior firepower/cyber/magic/etc, I make use of delay tactics and lots of scattered weak drones/npcs/spirits. Watcher Spirits are excellent for this. Many players are in the mindset of other games like D&D and the like, and they believe i only they can be tougher than the opposition, they'll slay them and get the treasure. But this is often not the case in SR, especially on the higher end runs. Much like the Grand Theft auto games, if you have killed a bunch of people and the cops know about it, and you just sit around shooting everyone in sight, eventually the stronger forces will arrive and geek your sorry hoop.
It's also a form of the ancient warfare tactic of using skirmishers to harass, delay, and pin down your enemy. Then you bring in the stronger forces like heavy infantry to really beat them down. If you've played the Total War games, then you know how this works. You can use weak yet quick skirmisher forces, like Watchers, drones, or even lame sec guards either to delay or to pin down and distract while a more powerful force comes up behind. Hammer and anvil ensues. Beware of TPKing the runner team though, if that is not your goal. :)
-
I envision more of a "mobile defense" strategy from corps when the costs go up. Unless its a hard site or VIP protection, I would imagine that most of the systems are really just tripwires and delays. Rather than keeping HTR teams on every building, and rigging it with poison vents, minefields, machinegun nests and spirits, set it with sensors, locks, the occasional drone, and minimal metahuman presence.
Yes, exactly, over the years my games have developed this way, and not just for the corps. Rather than try to challenge the players with equal firepower or trying to scare them of with superior firepower/cyber/magic/etc, I make use of delay tactics and lots of scattered weak drones/npcs/spirits. Watcher Spirits are excellent for this. Many players are in the mindset of other games like D&D and the like, and they believe i only they can be tougher than the opposition, they'll slay them and get the treasure. But this is often not the case in SR, especially on the higher end runs. Much like the Grand Theft auto games, if you have killed a bunch of people and the cops know about it, and you just sit around shooting everyone in sight, eventually the stronger forces will arrive and geek your sorry hoop.
It's also a form of the ancient warfare tactic of using skirmishers to harass, delay, and pin down your enemy. Then you bring in the stronger forces like heavy infantry to really beat them down. If you've played the Total War games, then you know how this works. You can use weak yet quick skirmisher forces, like Watchers, drones, or even lame sec guards either to delay or to pin down and distract while a more powerful force comes up behind. Hammer and anvil ensues. Beware of TPKing the runner team though, if that is not your goal. :)
Keep in mind the corp in question and the building. If the Corp ain't running their flag (logo) every 30cm of ground around the outside and every 90cm INSIDE, they don't have extra-territorality to fall back on.... So they can and will use KE to handle the mess (less costs for them) all they have to do is slow downt he runners. Falling secuirty gates are great for this, on top of every thing you mentioned.
If they ARE running their colors everywhere... well then, they can get away with a whole lot more. (like AZT policy of 'the suspect is libel for death and damage caused by security'! O_O!) now, it all depends on what is going on in that building. No need for $20 million security for a call center... but an ultra high reasearch lab? (and lets face it... only a FEW ppl would pay for a run against a call center)
Also, so Corps have a 'dead is not dead till we shoot it twice, hang it, throw it in a deep dark hole lined with mono-wire like a cheese grater. Then we set it on fire.' policy when it comes to unwanted attention of Runners (MCT and the Zero Zones)
In short runners, do you homework, bribe your way to the answers, and never EVER take a rush job that the Johnson opens with "I got this easy little run..."
-
Few other delay tactics ideas: Ice sheet spells, smoke grenades, corp sprinkler systems or water cannons. If you want to get really wacky, start shifting the architecture and hallways D&D style. Make use of mazes in critical areas. Slower to get in and possibly out. Critical areas are farther into the center of the maze. (Where perhaps a Minotaur troll is waiting) Hidden floors that need a special code or the like to make the elevator stop at. Good looking company women who feign distress, perhaps being set upon by other company men, dressed up as thugs or rapists. How morale are the runners, will they help the damsel in distress? Trapdoors, again if you are going wlld. Add crocodiles and novascorpion mutants if you are really going nuts. Similar to gates, barricades, perhaps even the wall where there was formerly a door is now just a dead end. Caltrops.
Oh a real classic, a large pile of corporate script. Slows the runners down to gather. Perhaps scattered. Or perhaps some other "treasure" that is extremely valuable, but will delay the runners critical moments for the hardcases to arrive and clean house.
-
Few other delay tactics ideas: Ice sheet spells, smoke grenades, corp sprinkler systems or water cannons. If you want to get really wacky, start shifting the architecture and hallways D&D style. Make use of mazes in critical areas. Slower to get in and possibly out. Critical areas are farther into the center of the maze. (Where perhaps a Minotaur troll is waiting) Hidden floors that need a special code or the like to make the elevator stop at. Good looking company women who feign distress, perhaps being set upon by other company men, dressed up as thugs or rapists. How morale are the runners, will they help the damsel in distress? Trapdoors, again if you are going wlld. Add crocodiles and novascorpion mutants if you are really going nuts. Similar to gates, barricades, perhaps even the wall where there was formerly a door is now just a dead end. Caltrops.
Oh a real classic, a large pile of corporate script. Slows the runners down to gather. Perhaps scattered. Or perhaps some other "treasure" that is extremely valuable, but will delay the runners critical moments for the hardcases to arrive and clean house.
How about a stack of gold bars laced with tracking devices that only start transmitting after they leave the building? Big and heavy on top of being valuable. Basically a monkey trap.
Nevermind, knowing players they'd probably find the trackers and disable them, and have a Spirit or Drone carry them, then you're just out a couple hundred kg of gold.
-
Well, re: "where'd they go", thats not a bad thing if they players did it right. Also, the time it takes to actual traverse somewhere is oft forgotten, as well as the actual working with the macguffin or what not.
Real Life example: a direct action team in a western country decided to cooperate with civil authorities during a recent terrorism drill. They were supposed to test a nuclear plant's defenses. They had to get through a chain link fence with wire on it, cross the open ground, enter the building, find the control room, and then simulate starting a meltdown.
Suffice to say that they had made it to the control room and set the simulated charges to blow the doors open in about 120 seconds. Most people couldn't have sprinted the distance involved in 120 seconds without things like fences in the way. It wasn't the breaching the fence, or entering the doors, or "killing" the guards, or slapping down the charges that slowed these guys down the most - it was just covering the distance. Actually "starting the meltdown" took a bit longer
Suffice to say, if said highly prestigious direct action team took two minutes to breach a real site, there's no reason shadowrunners should get a free pass on running through a corporate office. I'm pretty sure 25m per turn does not apply to "straight up the stairs for 15 stories" at least not without some serious athletics tests.
Finally: even if they get out, so long as you have surveillance tag on them leaving, as corp sec you've got until the meet with the johnson to figure out an answer. Be that 30 minutes or 3 days, its all the time in the world to drop the hammer, or let the KE/Star do it for you.
-
Well, re: "where'd they go", thats not a bad thing if they players did it right. Also, the time it takes to actual traverse somewhere is oft forgotten, as well as the actual working with the macguffin or what not.
Real Life example: a direct action team in a western country decided to cooperate with civil authorities during a recent terrorism drill. They were supposed to test a nuclear plant's defenses. They had to get through a chain link fence with wire on it, cross the open ground, enter the building, find the control room, and then simulate starting a meltdown.
Suffice to say that they had made it to the control room and set the simulated charges to blow the doors open in about 120 seconds. Most people couldn't have sprinted the distance involved in 120 seconds without things like fences in the way. It wasn't the breaching the fence, or entering the doors, or "killing" the guards, or slapping down the charges that slowed these guys down the most - it was just covering the distance. Actually "starting the meltdown" took a bit longer
Suffice to say, if said highly prestigious direct action team took two minutes to breach a real site, there's no reason shadowrunners should get a free pass on running through a corporate office. I'm pretty sure 25m per turn does not apply to "straight up the stairs for 15 stories" at least not without some serious athletics tests.
Finally: even if they get out, so long as you have surveillance tag on them leaving, as corp sec you've got until the meet with the johnson to figure out an answer. Be that 30 minutes or 3 days, its all the time in the world to drop the hammer, or let the KE/Star do it for you.
Not sure what nuclear plant that was at, but at the one that I work at, there's no way that could happen. 120 yards from outside fence to the plant? Try 1000 yards (if not more, depending on the direction you are coming from). Then there's a secondary line of security directly around the plant itself, which includes more fences and more guards. And the security at the plant is probably better than the direct action team. These guys go to competition which includes navy seals and special forces and they almost always come out on top.
Now, of course, this is a Nuclear facility, not the main facility of a small corporation. The level of security you would expect here is much greater.
Also, fail safe settings in a nuclear plant would prevent a melt down should explosives be set off in the control room. Loss of power would result, and the reactor would be shut down, which takes less than a minute. I should note that I'm speaking only of CANDU reactors. Others in the world, I cannot speak for.
-
Fun TV show about this kind of operation, by the by: SPecial Ops Mission, starring Wil Willis.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=epRq7pOrFLo
Great stuff, but a too-short braodcast run.
-
It was in Scotland, and it was about 200 meters from the staff parking lot (ish). 120 seconds. Now mind, there was a good bit of crawling undetected before hand for a few hours through a perimeter like the one you described.... but from "well crap, no way to avoid detection now" to "everyone in the control room is dead" was 2 minutes. Which is the relam were talking about corp sec having time to recat in.
-
Suffice to say, if said highly prestigious direct action team took two minutes to breach a real site, there's no reason shadowrunners should get a free pass on running through a corporate office. I'm pretty sure 25m per turn does not apply to "straight up the stairs for 15 stories" at least not without some serious athletics tests.
Good one, I'm gonna use that. Funny too, the runners collapsing from exhaustion, with no sign of the stairs ending. You could have the Shadowrunner's car parked in some massive garage and do a SR version of the Seinfeld episode where they can't find the car.
Does anyone have any ideas to detect characters who are both invisible and silent spelled? (Silent and the like defeats ultrasound goggles, etc. And ultrasound is what defeats invisibility) I primarily want the ability to make chokepoints difficult to just sneak by invisible. It used to be possible with ultrasound, but we finally figured out that indirect sound illusions defeat ultrasound. I guess large amounts of guards milling about might work but that may be a bit unrealistic.
-
MM wave radar.
-
Suffice to say, if said highly prestigious direct action team took two minutes to breach a real site, there's no reason shadowrunners should get a free pass on running through a corporate office. I'm pretty sure 25m per turn does not apply to "straight up the stairs for 15 stories" at least not without some serious athletics tests.
Good one, I'm gonna use that. Funny too, the runners collapsing from exhaustion, with no sign of the stairs ending. You could have the Shadowrunner's car parked in some massive garage and do a SR version of the Seinfeld episode where they can't find the car.
Does anyone have any ideas to detect characters who are both invisible and silent spelled? (Silent and the like defeats ultrasound goggles, etc. And ultrasound is what defeats invisibility) I primarily want the ability to make chokepoints difficult to just sneak by invisible. It used to be possible with ultrasound, but we finally figured out that indirect sound illusions defeat ultrasound. I guess large amounts of guards milling about might work but that may be a bit unrealistic.
depending on how you want silence to work, by description, it dampens the sound waves that enter the area thus giving a bonus to defend against sonic attacks. this dampening also "defeats" sonic sensors..... but "how" is the question ;D IF you rule is creates a "blank" spot = to the force of the spell, an alert monitor operator might be interested in the moving blank spot through a sensor that was working fine a minute ago and send someone to investigate.
-
Best bet in my opinion is to let it "work" since that's just good preparation for the infiltration. If no plan or prep ever works then it just leads to frustration then irritation and finally leaving the group if it gets bad enough.
-
Does anyone have any ideas to detect characters who are both invisible and silent spelled? (Silent and the like defeats ultrasound goggles, etc. And ultrasound is what defeats invisibility) I primarily want the ability to make chokepoints difficult to just sneak by invisible. It used to be possible with ultrasound, but we finally figured out that indirect sound illusions defeat ultrasound. I guess large amounts of guards milling about might work but that may be a bit unrealistic.
When technology stumbles, go old school.
Get a dog. (Or a Hellhound, really.)
Nose 2.0 tends to pop up quick, and hwen they can't SEE what they smell, there'll be a lot of barking and snurfling around that'll raise suspicions. Use RARELY, of course, but never forget that mankind loooves having animals around. They're useful!
-
Easiest way to detect a magical infiltration is an astral guard. If magic is not available then GloMoss /GloWand based magic detectors at every door will be enough.
-
I do let intelligent plans work for the most part. I just would rather the invisible/silence combo didn't lead to an instant win every time they want to slip through a high secure entrance. I like to use chokepoints, since they let corps invest large amounts of money in one place, thus saving them money overall, yet getting a lot out of their security money. I'd like these chokepoints to be effective, so runners have to get creative and find other entrances in and the like. I'm not seeking to "beat" the players, but rather just make them think a little harder.
The dogs is an excellent idea, unfortunately one of the characters has a dog phobia severe. I already make sure some dogs appear to exploit this, but I also don't like to go too overboard and abuse a single player tons, heh. That does bring up scent based technologies. I already do use chem sniffers in entrance architectures. This is a pretty sly and lightweight group though, as far as carrying weapons goes.
I'm fairly sure silence spells shut down ultrasound completely, since I found it in the 3rd edit. man and machine book under the ultrasound cyberware area. The core 3rd book is vague on the issue, which is why we weren't certain before that silence could do that.
Yeah, spirits definitely work, but sometimes magic isn't available.
What I'd really like is some kind tech corps can invest in to handle invisibility detection reliably at chokepoints.
Easiest way to detect a magical infiltration is an astral guard. If magic is not available then GloMoss /GloWand based magic detectors at every door will be enough.
This does sound great. As does the mm wave radar idea. I'm running on a 2060 timeline though and I don't know when these techs came into the SR world. It appears mm wave radar exists now in 2012, but that is no gurantee it will be in SR with all the diseasters, etc.
I guess I could just let them "win" a few times to see what happens. I'm just worried about the situation where they do this ten times in a row and it's boring for everyone involved. I'm not concerned about them succeeding in a few runs and getting some money for it.
-
I do let intelligent plans work for the most part. I just would rather the invisible/silence combo didn't lead to an instant win every time they want to slip through a high secure entrance. I like to use chokepoints, since they let corps invest large amounts of money in one place, thus saving them money overall, yet getting a lot out of their security money. I'd like these chokepoints to be effective, so runners have to get creative and find other entrances in and the like. I'm not seeking to "beat" the players, but rather just make them think a little harder.
The dogs is an excellent idea, unfortunately one of the characters has a dog phobia severe. I already make sure some dogs appear to exploit this, but I also don't like to go too overboard and abuse a single player tons, heh. That does bring up scent based technologies. I already do use chem sniffers in entrance architectures. This is a pretty sly and lightweight group though, as far as carrying weapons goes.
I'm fairly sure silence spells shut down ultrasound completely, since I found it in the 3rd edit. man and machine book under the ultrasound cyberware area. The core 3rd book is vague on the issue, which is why we weren't certain before that silence could do that.
Yeah, spirits definitely work, but sometimes magic isn't available.
What I'd really like is some kind tech corps can invest in to handle invisibility detection reliably at chokepoints.
Easiest way to detect a magical infiltration is an astral guard. If magic is not available then GloMoss /GloWand based magic detectors at every door will be enough.
This does sound great. As does the mm wave radar idea. I'm running on a 2060 timeline though and I don't know when these techs came into the SR world. It appears mm wave radar exists now in 2012, but that is no gurantee it will be in SR with all the diseasters, etc.
I guess I could just let them "win" a few times to see what happens. I'm just worried about the situation where they do this ten times in a row and it's boring for everyone involved. I'm not concerned about them succeeding in a few runs and getting some money for it.
Simple, cheap, easy way? Pressure sensors. They don't have to be floor mounted. A pressure sensor mounted on the wall or floor would sense the change of pressure in room, hallway, choke point caused by the entrance of a body.
-
Simpler,cheaper, and even harder to avoid?
Stick a door there. :)
-
Simple, cheap, easy way? Pressure sensors. They don't have to be floor mounted. A pressure sensor mounted on the wall or floor would sense the change of pressure in room, hallway, choke point caused by the entrance of a body.
I don't know about that. Unless a room was hermetically sealed, I would think that the pressure change from the presence of a body would be less than the basic changes due to atmospheric pressure. Heck, changes in air pressure caused by the HVAC system would be trouble too. Mind you, you could have the pressure sensors calibrated to take those into consideration.
-
Simple, cheap, easy way? Pressure sensors. They don't have to be floor mounted. A pressure sensor mounted on the wall or floor would sense the change of pressure in room, hallway, choke point caused by the entrance of a body.
I don't know about that. Unless a room was hermetically sealed, I would think that the pressure change from the presence of a body would be less than the basic changes due to atmospheric pressure. Heck, changes in air pressure caused by the HVAC system would be trouble too. Mind you, you could have the pressure sensors calibrated to take those into consideration.
Exactly right. You calibrate for the variables you can control (HVAC, barometric, etc). Then any variable outside that you cover with a deadband setting for minor changes. However, the mass displacement of a meta human body is a significant amount and would trip the sensor. Doesn't help you to see or hear the people breaking in... But you know someone of XXX mass passed through the area.
-
However, the mass displacement of a meta human body is a significant amount and would trip the sensor.
That would depend on the size of the room, and whether or not the area was hermetically sealed.
Here's the problem I see, and maybe someone can expand on it or clear it up:
You open a door, and enter a room. The pressure sensors would definitely pick up the change due to the door opening. However, as the metahuman walks in and closes the door, his presence has already displaced the air out the door, so a pressure sensor wouldn't notice a change until the metahuman body temperature began to increase the air temperature, in turn increasing the air pressure.
-
Or just have a ward with a camera pointed at it. You either go through the ward with your enchantments up with the resultant "hey" or drop them in front of the camera. Either way, your nicked.
-
However, the mass displacement of a meta human body is a significant amount and would trip the sensor.
That would depend on the size of the room, and whether or not the area was hermetically sealed.
Here's the problem I see, and maybe someone can expand on it or clear it up:
You open a door, and enter a room. The pressure sensors would definitely pick up the change due to the door opening. However, as the metahuman walks in and closes the door, his presence has already displaced the air out the door, so a pressure sensor wouldn't notice a change until the metahuman body temperature began to increase the air temperature, in turn increasing the air pressure.
you'd be amazed, there are several properties of air that would make the system faisable. the first is that air is "soft", meaning a door opened at the end of the hallway would not have that much effect on the sensor (wouldn't trip it due to your deadband allowance) however, walking right by the sensor, you displace the air around you, just creating a pressure wave that could be measured. the trick is the area of the room.. a small to medium sized room would be more likely to trip a false-positive then the cross hallways of a large office building floor. But with careful measurementation of the total volume for the building, factoring in the mass of the legit employees, you COULD expand the system to cover an entire building during it's off hours (no outside doors opening, and recirculated air flow to keep the air fresh, without introducing a pressure variance.. but this would get expensive qiuck)
-
Or just have a ward with a camera pointed at it. You either go through the ward with your enchantments up with the resultant "hey" or drop them in front of the camera. Either way, your nicked.
This, right here.
Also, a remotely monitored "airlock" that has to be opened via a hard-line switch located on the far side. Can be scaled from a simple pair of sturdy doors monitored by a "mall cop" at a security desk, through blast doors and guards watching from behind bullet-proof glass, to an actual airlock with a HTR squad dedicated just to monitoring it, backed up by popup turrets and gas vents.
-
Simpler,cheaper, and even harder to avoid?
Stick a door there.
Hah, I really should have thought of that. I was in a thieve's guild in an online game that used doors to detect invisible people attempting to come spy on guild business.
Thank you for the excellent suggestions everyone. It's good to not be stuck with the basic old bag of flour to scatter around.
-
I'm pretty sure 25m per turn does not apply to "straight up the stairs for 15 stories" at least not without some serious athletics tests.
I quite agree!
We also houserule movement rates down quite a bit, to be a bit more in line with the real-world! So humans, elves and orks walk at 4m/turn and run at 12m/turn; dwarves walk at 3m/turn and run at 10m/turn; and trolls walk at 6m/turn and run at 18m/turn. It has the side-effect of a) making melee harder >:( (except from surprise) but b) making pistols and other short-range weapons useful for longer.
We likewise reduce Critter movement, but leave vehicle movement where it is.
-
I've always liked the "flock of geese" from the SR card game. Geese that are trained to remain on site (how? I don't know). If you sneak onto a property that has the grounds covered with geese, they will panic and cause a ruckass, alerting sercurity.
-
Something I have used before was a Threshold based security tally similar to SR3 Matrix. Everytime the players did something that might be construed by security as a quirk in the system, rather than an obvious security breach, I made a test using their Security Procedures skill. Once they managed so many hits, they would send someone to investigate. If the guard failed to find the runners, the threshold would reset, and the test would proceed again. The Security Procedures Test would get a dice pool bonus because security is on alert, and once the threshold was reached again, they would assume a full out breach.
It was a nice way to streamline all of the possible security responses, rather than trying to think how each guard might react.
I found it quite effective.
-
I've always liked the "flock of geese" from the SR card game. Geese that are trained to remain on site (how? I don't know). If you sneak onto a property that has the grounds covered with geese, they will panic and cause a ruckass, alerting sercurity.
Geese are crazy territorial and quite aggressive. Combine this with their being LOUD and you have a darn good security system that goes back to Egpytian times.
-
I'll admit I didnt thoroughly examine every post, but I kinda wanted to say this from page 1.
I've worked for some good private security companies, and the most effective mundane security I've seen used low-level employees (not necessarily armed or trained at all) who were reliably perceptive and serious about their jobs. Either by camera, radio, or preferably LOS, every guy is regularly visible or in communication with 2 other guys. They may be able to neutralize threats on their own, or cause a cascade of rushing nearby security, but the primary purpose is that someone is still moving and able to signal the better equipped and trained team, which is either sitting ready in a supervisory capacity or patrolling. That second group never commits everything to a disturbance, because one incident breeds other incidents, even if it's just employee panic or a small fire or electrical outage or something.
And meanwhile, the secondary supervisor (in SR, probably the spider), takes over contacting higher authorities for backup or cleanup, because your primary supervisor needs his eyed focused on the disturbance and protecting his team as well as the objective.