Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: RandomEpic on <07-01-12/0007:27>
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So I have been flipping through the Shadworun book and some pdfs and have decided to run a campaign in it, still I'd like some advice on the game itself
1st of all how have you guys sold Shadowrun to your players before, I'm trying to figure out a better way to get them interested beyond a "it's Tolkien meets Bladerunner" tag
2nd the game is going to go through the On the Run book so I and my group can get used to the system, is this a good call or no?
3rd how viable are melee characters in Shadworun mechanic wise? I know at least one of my players is going to want to be a Elf Adept Swordmaster
And that's about it, but if you have any other info to help beyond what I'm asking that will be appreciated as well :).
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1) When I started playing, back in the 1st Ed days, it was as simple as my GM going "Hey, let's play this." So, YMMV, but we were always up fro something new. I wouldn't bring Tolkien into it.
2) Probably.
3) As good as any other concept. Only problem you run in to is that dude can be a badass mofo swordsman swingin' steel all over the place and pretending he's Aragorn; hundred feet away is a security guy with an Ares Alpha and all your melee craft just went to hell. This isn't a game where you can get away with being a one trick pony.
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Shadowrun is not just a mix of magic and near-future weaponry, where cyborgs and hackers rub shoulders with mages and magic-infused martial artists. It is a world where you have no level or character classes, so you can custom-craft the character you want. And you hit the ground running, as tough, seasoned characters. A mage, for example, could be a cigar-chomping ork dressed in a mix of camo and grungy goth, with a tribal tattoo on the side of his shaved head, toting an assault rifle and an enchanted K-bar knife. And he can start out summoning fire elementals and tossing lightning bolts - or chucking grenades.
Adventure books are fine, but always read all the way through them, then adjust them for the characters. If everyone is playing badass gun-fu experts, then a couple of gang punks won't be the same challenge that they would be for a group consisting of a seedy detective, a tech school dropout who hacks computers, and a neotribal shaman focused mainly on healing.
Melee characters are viable - but like sniping, it is a niche role. So the player should make sure that swordfighting is not the be-all and end-all for his character. He should have some ranged skills, and be at least passable at a few non-combat things, like sneaking. But the good news is that some of the things that make a good melee character - like being tough or having multiple initiative passes - are good for combat in general.
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1st of all how have you guys sold Shadowrun to your players before, I'm trying to figure out a better way to get them interested beyond a "it's Tolkien meets Bladerunner" tag
Well, in my D&D group, we have another person who is the primary DM. As a Christmas present, I told him I'd take the big chair for a while. So while the D&D game was still going on, I laid the groundwork. First, I gave them some movies they could watch to get the feel of things, Ghost in the Shell, Blade Runner, and Johnny Mnemonic being some of the primary ones. I told them to picture a world like those movies, but with dragons and magic added in. Second, I gave them each copies of the "History for the Reality Impaired" section of the core book, to give them a primer on the setting. Third, I made certain they were aware that they weren't going to be heroes, and the D&D method of walk in, kill everything that moves, and loot the bodies was going to get them very dead, very quickly. Fourth, I grabbed Runner's Toolkit. The Anatomy of a Shadowrun file and the cheat sheets were invaluable. Finally, I promised them that it would be a change of pace from D&D.
2nd the game is going to go through the On the Run book so I and my group can get used to the system, is this a good call or no?
Big mistake, IMHO. On the Run is not a very intuitive adventure. If your group isn't paranoid enough to chase the rabbits down their holes, you're going to miss out on half the run. If they take a "I do the job, I get paid, I go home" attitude (which is a perfectly acceptable attitude for a runner, BTW), then they won't see half the module. On the Run is best left until after they've got some experience, especially after they've been screwed good at least once by Mr. Johnson. That way, they'll be more likely to pry into all those things they don't really need to know about.
A better bet, IMHO, would be to use the Missions series, or the Horizon or Artifacts campaigns. The Missions series, especially, has a more linear format that is good for new players. They also serve as a nice launching point into the wider world of Shadowrun, throwing your players into the metaplot.
3rd how viable are melee characters in Shadworun mechanic wise? I know at least one of my players is going to want to be a Elf Adept Swordmaster
Encourage your player to have some kind of ranged attack ability as well. A melee character can do well, especially if they shape the battlefield to suit them. Ranged attacks have a better shot of hitting, but, especially for Awakened characters, there are things that only melee can handle. If your elf swordmaster adept gets a Weapon Focus, he will be devastating against spirits, for instance. When you need to take down a person quickly and quietly, melee attacks from surprise have a better chance of dropping the person without making a lot of noise.
However, Melee does have its limits. Crossing wide open spaces while under fire is NOT a good idea, which means you're going to want to have some ranged ability. And no sword has the stopping power or intimidation effect of a belt-fed machine gun on FA.
And that's about it, but if you have any other info to help beyond what I'm asking that will be appreciated as well :).
For the love of all that is holy, check your players' characters before they are accepted into play. Do this not only to weed out things that are too powerful, but also to give them a chance to redo things if their character is going to be basically useless most of the time, or if there are errors in the sheet. It is so much easier to revise things before the game starts than it is to redo a character that is already in play.
Make sure everyone has the same idea of the setting and the game. While Pink Mohawk and Black Trenchcoat are both great ways to play the game, having both styles in the same group is just asking for trouble.
Make your players come up with a background and description for their characters. These don't have to be long, maybe a paragraph for the description and 3-4 paragraphs for the background. Make them name and give a 1 paragraph description of each of their contacts. Doing all this has two purposes. First, it helps them realize the character as an individual, rather than a collection of stats and skills. Second, it provides you with plot hooks to be used at your leisure.
Be accepting of the unusual. The Sixth World is a world of strangeness. You literally have real-live catgirls running around, people who can access the internet with their minds, individuals who have more chrome than meat left in their bodies, and DRAGONS. What was unusual is par for the course. However, remind your characters that being unusual is a double-edged sword. It makes you special, but 'special' means you get noticed more. And unless they are very good at covering their tracks, a shadowrunner that gets noticed everywhere they go doesn't tend to live very long.
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Give 'em a 'sandbox' run through Food Fight or the equivalent, and let them tweak their characters after. I regret not having been able to do that with my first-ever character in SR.
If possible, get a good look at the character sheets before the first game, and write up 'cheat sheets' on rules that come into play. Bob the Sammy has a full-auto weapon? Note down the various dicepool mods for burst and full auto fire. A copy of the mage's spell descriptions are handy, too.
I highly suggest that players bring their own cheatsheets as well; I usually write up a new one for each character listing abilities, and a list of common rolls/dice pools. It is good to be able to glance at the back of my character sheet and know that the 'standard' dice pool for her pistol is 13.
On that thought, you might want to do similar for the NPCs. Each player has just a single character (aside from drones or spirits); you have an entire world to play! Making combat go faster allows more fun story/RP time.
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Food Fight is a good one, but it all depends on how new to SR the group is. I know that at this point, my group is a bit sick of it because several of us have been through that so many times that a good chunk of our characters pack as though going into a warzone to go to the Stuffer Shack.
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Alright thanks alot for the advice this is definitely going to help
I'm probably going to have a day solely for char creation and put them through a sandbox to get used to everything at the end before I do an actual session
@Cass100199 & Glyph thanks for the advice
@Mirikon
A better bet, IMHO, would be to use the Missions series, or the Horizon or Artifacts campaigns. The Missions series, especially, has a more linear format that is good for new players. They also serve as a nice launching point into the wider world of Shadowrun, throwing your players into the metaplot.
Any mission in particular, also Pink Mohawk and Back Trench coat? Is that just punk vs. matrix esque runners or no?
@Teknodragon & All4BigGuns
Thanks and what's Food Fight?
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Food Fight is the module in the Quick Start stuff.
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Food Fight is the free adventure that you can download from the Shadowrun site that is a basic intro more to combat then a true adventure, but it is very useful.
I would also recommend getting the runners toolkit. I have run games since 1st edition and found it was worth the purchase for several reasons. Some of them being a good GM screen, the cheat sheets for most common active skill tasks, anatomy of a run (a run that has what happened in the left column and the mechanics that caused it on the right), some basic location maps and much more that is slipping my mind at the moment.
With my current game I let the players (several of which were new to the game) tweak their characters for the first three adventures so that they could modify little things that they overlooked or found a skill they thought was useful and wasn't.
Pink Mohawk as I understand it is guns a blazing shoot em up type game. Black trench coat is more a sneak, observe, misdirect and it(the job) is business type setting where it is less shooting.
I would also echo that a melee specialist needs other skills and a ranged combat skill for every character is pretty much a must in my opinion.
Hope these thoughts help
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My advice: SR3
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My advice: SR3
Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.
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My advice: SR3
Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.
Which is the way it should be. Without skill, attributes are worthless. IMHO
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My advice: SR3
Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.
Which is the way it should be. Without skill, attributes are worthless. IMHO
Not really. Someone with a huge natural talent but little training (high attribute and low skill) should be able to have at least a chance of keeping up with someone with a lot of training but crap for natural talent (low attribute and high skill) in my own personal opinion. [Disclaimer: This is without resorting to luck such as Edge or whatever.]
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@Mirikon
A better bet, IMHO, would be to use the Missions series, or the Horizon or Artifacts campaigns. The Missions series, especially, has a more linear format that is good for new players. They also serve as a nice launching point into the wider world of Shadowrun, throwing your players into the metaplot.
Any mission in particular, also Pink Mohawk and Back Trench coat? Is that just punk vs. matrix esque runners or no?
Those describe two different play styles. When you're doing Pink Mohawk, you go with the over the top hair styles, the leather with spikes in it, maybe some caution tape, and go with the concept that any problem can be solved with more explosives. When you're doing Black Trenchcoat, you stick to shadows, don't stand out from the crowd, and if you're getting in a firefight, things have already gone to hell. As I said, both good ways to play the game. But they are very different styles.
As for which missions in particular? If you're starting in 2074 (current game year), I'd go with the beginning of Season 4. That'll get your players starting right in the middle of the Artifacts hunt, as well as the fun with the ORC and Humanis punching it out., and the individual missions are dirt cheap. Plus, they'll give you suggestions on how much to pay the characters, how much karma to give them, suggestions on how to fix things when they break...
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My advice: SR3
Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.
Which is the way it should be. Without skill, attributes are worthless. IMHO
Not really. Someone with a huge natural talent but little training (high attribute and low skill) should be able to have at least a chance of keeping up with someone with a lot of training but crap for natural talent (low attribute and high skill) in my own personal opinion. [Disclaimer: This is without resorting to luck such as Edge or whatever.]
Yes really. Walk into a Dojo sometime and challenge the elderly, experienced sensai to a fight (assuming you have a small amount of skill). How much do you want to bet he will clean the floor with you. :P I know he would clean it with me.
Attributes should have some effect, but not to the extremety that SR4 offers. I really liked how they did it in SR3: the better your attribute, the easier it was to improve you skills. That style is a personal favourite of mine.
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My advice: SR3
Only if you want attributes to have a minimal effect on the capability of characters.
Which is the way it should be. Without skill, attributes are worthless. IMHO
Not really. Someone with a huge natural talent but little training (high attribute and low skill) should be able to have at least a chance of keeping up with someone with a lot of training but crap for natural talent (low attribute and high skill) in my own personal opinion. [Disclaimer: This is without resorting to luck such as Edge or whatever.]
Yes really. Walk into a Dojo sometime and challenge the elderly, experienced sensai to a fight (assuming you have a small amount of skill). How much do you want to bet he will clean the floor with you. :P I know he would clean it with me.
Attributes should have some effect, but not to the extremety that SR4 offers. I really liked how they did it in SR3: the better your attribute, the easier it was to improve you skills. That style is a personal favourite of mine.
Oh, he'd clean my clock, but I'd be defaulting with an average attribute.
On how much to pay runners, my advice (if you have the module) would be to use the pay for the first run in Damage Control as the low ball baseline pay.
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Is there a book out there that gives ranges for jobs? I think SR3 Companion had a list that showed the bare minimum, but prices have changed in SR4, so I don't know what would be best either.
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You're assuming that, since the sensei is elderly, he is frail and slow. That would be where your mistake is.
But let's put things on a more even keel, with people closer in age and condition than 'young guy' and 'elderly swordmaster'. Take sports. You have some people who have lots of natural ability, but not much skill, and people with a mastery of the mechanics, but not as much raw talent, and both succeed. The difference is that the person with natural ability, if they ever buckled down and put more work on their mechanics, could be truly great.
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You're assuming that, since the sensei is elderly, he is frail and slow. That would be where your mistake is.
But let's put things on a more even keel, with people closer in age and condition than 'young guy' and 'elderly swordmaster'. Take sports. You have some people who have lots of natural ability, but not much skill, and people with a mastery of the mechanics, but not as much raw talent, and both succeed. The difference is that the person with natural ability, if they ever buckled down and put more work on their mechanics, could be truly great.
I agree he could be truly great, but I don't agree on the attributes being that much of a benefit. I know we've danced this dance before, so I won't start the music over again.
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Yes really. Walk into a Dojo sometime and challenge the elderly, experienced sensai to a fight (assuming you have a small amount of skill). How much do you want to bet he will clean the floor with you. :P I know he would clean it with me.
Attributes should have some effect, but not to the extremety that SR4 offers. I really liked how they did it in SR3: the better your attribute, the easier it was to improve you skills. That style is a personal favourite of mine.
You're assuming that, since the sensei is elderly, he is frail and slow. That would be where your mistake is.
But let's put things on a more even keel, with people closer in age and condition than 'young guy' and 'elderly swordmaster'. Take sports. You have some people who have lots of natural ability, but not much skill, and people with a mastery of the mechanics, but not as much raw talent, and both succeed. The difference is that the person with natural ability, if they ever buckled down and put more work on their mechanics, could be truly great.
I agree he could be truly great, but I don't agree on the attributes being that much of a benefit. I know we've danced this dance before, so I won't start the music over again.
I'm built like an Ork... *looks at belly* okay, a really tall Ogre... and I can easily hold my own sparring against people way more skilled than I am. Why? Because I'm 6'5", my 'ideal' fighting weight is about 280 pounds, and I'm none too slow on my feet... or wasn't back when I was in practice. I have a massive size and weight advantage over pretty much everyone I've trained with, and they're not enough faster than me be able to get inside my guard before I could react.
To put it bluntly... I could bulldoze straight through the guard of a "typical" 180 pound guy in the upper belts and send him sprawling ass-over-teakettle so easily I actually had trouble learning proper technique, because doing it wrong still worked.
So, yes, I can tell you from empirical experience that raw instinct and physical ability does make a huge difference.
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I'm built like an Ork... *looks at belly* okay, a really tall Ogre... and I can easily hold my own sparring against people way more skilled than I am. Why? Because I'm 6'5", my 'ideal' fighting weight is about 280 pounds, and I'm none too slow on my feet... or wasn't back when I was in practice. I have a massive size and weight advantage over pretty much everyone I've trained with, and they're not enough faster than me be able to get inside my guard before I could react.
To put it bluntly... I could bulldoze straight through the guard of a "typical" 180 pound guy in the upper belts and send him sprawling ass-over-teakettle so easily I actually had trouble learning proper technique, because doing it wrong still worked.
So, yes, I can tell you from empirical experience that raw instinct and physical ability does make a huge difference.
And I can tell you, from my experience, that it doesn't. My friend, who has his first dan in kendo is big and slow. I am small and very fast. I'm not even close to my first dan, and he can easily take me out of the competition.
What you are describing to me is (and this is only how I read it, not how it is) the fact that you are not using natural ability, you are just using size. Of course an elephant could easily trample a house cat (assuming the house cat didn't get out of the way). I don't think that really falls into any of the categories of attributes, except maybe body and strength, which isn't really a naturally offensive ability (except in dealing damage). From what I am reading, you are more or less just using your size to charge your opponent (this is why I like the idea of adding half the person's body attribute to damage when charging). Since melee fighting is based on agility and reaction, not body, I don't think using your example is very accurate. Your size would provide you with a higher body and strength, which could easily shorten the fight if you managed to contact your opponent. No offense, intended, of course.
And if your opponent was only 180 pounds to your 280 and tried to block rather than avoid, he really doesn't have the skill you claim that he has, because he didn't know enough to get out of your way.
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And if your opponent was only 180 pounds to your 280 and tried to block rather than avoid, he really doesn't have the skill you claim that he has, because he didn't know enough to get out of your way.
It's less about not trying, and more about being not able to pull it off. I won't say I'm fast, but the smaller guys don't dance around me, either. Probably high Reaction and Intuition scores letting me go first. ;)
Think of it as me having the Full Offense maneuver... which I probably bought, along with "Sweep" (more like "Shove", but still...) as soon as I had my first rank of the Karate trait (probably +1 Block) and could get Martial Arts maneuvers. ;D
As for the rest of it... that's rather my point. Strength and Body are both Attributes, and being able to use those Attributes effectively lets me "close the gap" against someone with 2 more points of Unarmed Combat and maybe 1 more point of Agility, by using Full Offense without being worried about the consequences of getting hit.
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And if your opponent was only 180 pounds to your 280 and tried to block rather than avoid, he really doesn't have the skill you claim that he has, because he didn't know enough to get out of your way.
It's less about not trying, and more about being not able to pull it off. I'm not big and slow, I'm big and not slow. I won't say fast, but the smaller guys can't dance around me, either. Think of it as me having high Strength and Body, plus like a 3 Agility, and using the Full Offense maneuver... which I bought, along with Finishing Move, as soon as I had my first rank of the Karate trait (probably +1 Block) and could get Martial Arts maneuvers. ;D
As for the rest of it... that's rather my point. Strength and Body are both Attributes, and being able to use those Attributes effectively lets me "close the gap" against someone with maybe 1-2 points more Agility and 2 points more skill by using Full Offense without being worried about the consequences of getting hit.
Yes, but it still goes against the basic premise that I was discussing about attributes playing the key roles in SR4 skills that they do. Yes they should influence, but not to the degree that they do. Your two attributes (strength and body) are key to combat in both SR3 and SR4. Body even more so in SR3.
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Give 'em a 'sandbox' run through Food Fight or the equivalent, and let them tweak their characters after. I regret not having been able to do that with my first-ever character in SR.
If possible, get a good look at the character sheets before the first game, and write up 'cheat sheets' on rules that come into play. Bob the Sammy has a full-auto weapon? Note down the various dicepool mods for burst and full auto fire. A copy of the mage's spell descriptions are handy, too.
I highly suggest that players bring their own cheatsheets as well; I usually write up a new one for each character listing abilities, and a list of common rolls/dice pools. It is good to be able to glance at the back of my character sheet and know that the 'standard' dice pool for her pistol is 13.
On that thought, you might want to do similar for the NPCs. Each player has just a single character (aside from drones or spirits); you have an entire world to play! Making combat go faster allows more fun story/RP time.
1. I fell in love with Shadowrun simply by going through the character creation process and that was also what I saw with those that we converted. The complexity of various system rules were actually the offputting thing, although a certain type of player took to the high chance of death. They were typical gamers and familiar with fantasy and sci though.
I agree with the idea to run them through a sandbox run or two to get used to it. I'd suggest purchasing the 1st edition version of Sprawl Sites. I saw someone suggest it on these boards and bought it recently online for 4 bucks. The mechanics need converted to other editions, but I found it of great value and it would be of even greater value to someone trying to ease new players into the SR universe. There's a large array of encounters and mini adventures. There's also some great maps, which I find very useful as it usually is the hardest part for me and just having a map inspires me to create adventures. It has other useful things too, like some contacts, but the maps and the encounters/mini adventures are the real gems.
There is also a 4th edition Sprawl Sites just put out, but I haven't checked it out yet. Based on the quality of the 1st edition, I will likely pick it up soon.
Something that worked well with me easing new players into Shadowrun was to run early campaigns with limited systems. What I mean by that is to start you eliminate certain aspects of Shadowrun, preferably the ones with more difficult and complex rules. So, typically, we'd eliminate things like deckiing and vehicle combat. Players could drive cars of course, we simply didn't create combat situations while driving. Any decking would be done by npcs and just given some result or perhaps a very simple single dice test would determine results.
We might also eliminate magic or limit it to npcs. We did alot of just having the characters go around killing gangers and doing simple breaking and entering, shoot em up jobs. We generally included the skill system as well, so there was things going on like electronics to open a maglock and negotiation to fast talk the security guard. Once some of us were comfortable enough with the magic system, we added that and let pcs by mages and shamans. Much later on we added vehicle combat. Years later only a few of us are familiar with the decking system and players rarely play deckers. (We don't ban it)
I also agree with the idea for cheat sheets for difficult rules and npc stats. Once I started creating sheets on notecards, my combats speeded up dramatically. Another thing I found sped up combat was rolling dice out in the open on the table, rather than behind a GM screen. (A habit from my AD&D days)
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@GiraffeShaman, thnx
@Mirikon
@Mirikon
A better bet, IMHO, would be to use the Missions series, or the Horizon or Artifacts campaigns. The Missions series, especially, has a more linear format that is good for new players. They also serve as a nice launching point into the wider world of Shadowrun, throwing your players into the metaplot.
Any mission in particular, also Pink Mohawk and Back Trench coat? Is that just punk vs. matrix esque runners or no?
As for which missions in particular? If you're starting in 2074 (current game year), I'd go with the beginning of Season 4. That'll get your players starting right in the middle of the Artifacts hunt, as well as the fun with the ORC and Humanis punching it out., and the individual missions are dirt cheap. Plus, they'll give you suggestions on how much to pay the characters, how much karma to give them, suggestions on how to fix things when they break...
Actually after I got them introduced I was planning on doing the Artifact adventures, there what really got me into Shadowrun enough to play it.
So would the artifact missions in Season 4 interact badly with the Dawn of Artifact or not?
Also as I am a "newb" what's IMHO stand for?
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IMHO = In My Humble Opinion
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So would the artifact missions in Season 4 interact badly with the Dawn of Artifact or not?
I think it would work well. They're spread out one a month from January 2073 to December 2073; canonically, the Dawn of the Artifacts series happens in early 2072 but there's no reason you couldn't mix things up a bit. Artifacts Unbound makes a good follow-up to the Dawn of the Artifacts books, and has a chapter on the Artifact Rush in Seattle (i.e. the published Missions).
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Re: attributes vs skills.
I think the more technical sets probably should be more sill governed. Because " I have a high IQ and used visual basic once" does not translate to "I'm average, but spent 5 years learning to program". Or repair cars, or do financial analysis, or set broken bones - etc.
However, more kinesthetic skill sets naturally benefit more from attributes. Because sometimes being big and fast, or unnaturally steady of hand, or having reflexes like a cat, IS going to matter more.
Now realistically, there's probably a bell curve in there somewhere, with raw attributes mattering the absolute most form the "barely trained to well above average range", with skill taking and advantage at both ends of the spectrum...but that would be damn hard to rule.
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To answer your questions
1 Breifly explain it to your players "look its simular to our world cars gun citys but in the near future of our world with a twist of magic."
2. All i can say is if you understand it then go with it is it the best or worst doesnt matter you have to engage the players and feel comfortable reffing it..
3. how useful is a sword in a gunfight? It all depends on the range of the engagement. just dont have them make one trick ponys as someone pointed out. Read the core book front to back, take notes, get sticky tabs for sections for easy look up. Tell your players your new to this and lets keep to the basics not all the advaced rules right off rip. I hope my comment helps you.
Now let me get into this discource on violence with my fellow conrads. I am confused at what Justadude and Glorthoron were talking about are you talking straight shadowrun roll dice violence or we talking real life big guy vrs someone who trains for combat? I am confused because some points were SR mentioning an Orc then it went to personal exp talking about a dan status. So If we are talking SR violence its roll the dice what ever dice say happens.
If you guys were actually talking about real deal it depends on the intent. It really did look like you two were tap dancing around real life and shadowrun so its hard for me to tell. Even GloriousRuse gave his realistic opinion, so i am not the only one who is having a seen the argument go both ways. So i hope this clears up some disillusion's.
If you put two people in a life or death combat there is only 3 options 1 live 2 die or 3 both of combatants will die winner is mortaly wounded and dies after the combat. It all boils down will and killer instict. Everything else goes right out the window. A person can train their whole life and in the moment get gun shy it happens to cops, soldiers, average people defending themselfs they cant seem to pull the trigger and it would be fatal. Then again a person who trains, understand the human body, knows how to systimaticly take/rip it apart and doesnt care about living or dieing will hands down win no contest. If you blinked you would of missed what actualy happened. Thats if you guys were talking real at some point.
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To answer your questions
1 Breifly explain it to your players "look its simular to our world cars gun citys but in the near future of our world with a twist of magic."
2. All i can say is if you understand it then go with it is it the best or worst doesnt matter you have to engage the players and feel comfortable reffing it..
3. how useful is a sword in a gunfight? It all depends on the range of the engagement. just dont have them make one trick ponys as someone pointed out. Read the core book front to back, take notes, get sticky tabs for sections for easy look up. Tell your players your new to this and lets keep to the basics not all the advaced rules right off rip. I hope my comment helps you.
Now let me get into this discource on violence with my fellow conrads. I am confused at what Justadude and Glorthoron were talking about are you talking straight shadowrun roll dice violence or we talking real life big guy vrs someone who trains for combat? I am confused because some points were SR mentioning an Orc then it went to personal exp talking about a dan status. So If we are talking SR violence its roll the dice what ever dice say happens.
If you guys were actually talking about real deal it depends on the intent. It really did look like you two were tap dancing around real life and shadowrun so its hard for me to tell. Even GloriousRuse gave his realistic opinion, so i am not the only one who is having a seen the argument go both ways. So i hope this clears up some disillusion's.
If you put two people in a life or death combat there is only 3 options 1 live 2 die or 3 both of combatants will die winner is mortaly wounded and dies after the combat. It all boils down will and killer instict. Everything else goes right out the window. A person can train their whole life and in the moment get gun shy it happens to cops, soldiers, average people defending themselfs they cant seem to pull the trigger and it would be fatal. Then again a person who trains, understand the human body, knows how to systimaticly take/rip it apart and doesnt care about living or dieing will hands down win no contest. If you blinked you would of missed what actualy happened. Thats if you guys were talking real at some point.
That reminds me of the one trick pony in my group. He's a physad using a monowhip. He has stealth as well, but when the bullets start flying, he's in a lot of trouble.