Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: Glorthoron on <07-02-12/1915:22>
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I'm just wondering if anyone would like to share with the rest of us any of their GMing (or general gaming) techniques that are considered unorthadoxed?
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Chess timers. Several players over the years have been bad about taking forever to finish their turn, so I use them during combat turns to keep it flowing. It also builds some realistic combat tension, as too much hesitation will get you skipped and likely dead, and much like real combat, theres not time to plan every little move.
I know some here hate it immensely, but I also use Hit Location tables.
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Chess timers. Several players over the years have been bad about taking forever to finish their turn, so I use them during combat turns to keep it flowing. It also builds some realistic combat tension, as too much hesitation will get you skipped and likely dead, and much like real combat, theres not time to plan every little move.
I know some here hate it immensely, but I also use Hit Location tables.
I've incorporated hit location tables in the past too, but more so just to determine where a missed attack ended up. Such as hitting your ally beside your opponent.
Timers are a good tool too. When your character has less than a second to react, there should be little time to think over his actions.
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Created a bunch of business card sized quick reference sheets for the player's Contacts. This way they have an easy, visual way to decide which contact to use when its time to do some foot work. Given that I often give contacts to the players based on successful missions (rescued scientiest, orc underground leaders, mecurial :), a japanese 'adult' simsense director with yakuza contacts, etc. they can sometimes loose track of their contacts, or forget the ones they havent used in awhile.
Did create biohazard counters once when they infiltrated a containmenated lab. That was fund :)
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In my opinion, timers are one of the most horrid suggestions I've ever heard. Just because the character doesn't have much time to think through an action doesn't mean the player shouldn't. If it makes combat take a little (or even a lot) longer, so be it.
Hit location charts used in a game that does not incorporate such things in the normal rules as written are just as bad in my opinion as well. If they were intended to be used, they would have been incorporated into the rules.
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The player is the character. And we've all had that guy who would take 5-10 minutes to decide what to do with his Initiative, not including the 5 minutes he had to decide while waiting on everyone else. I actually have 3 or 4 in of our gaming association. The chess timer stops that, and no one can claim its unfair because I have to use it too, for each NPC.
And if we want to have the hit location battle again, I suggest a new thread. You have your opinion, I have mine.
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In my opinion, timers are one of the most horrid suggestions I've ever heard. Just because the character doesn't have much time to think through an action doesn't mean the player shouldn't. If it makes combat take a little (or even a lot) longer, so be it.
Hit location charts used in a game that does not incorporate such things in the normal rules as written are just as bad in my opinion as well. If they were intended to be used, they would have been incorporated into the rules.
I have to agree with Arkangel. The timer is a great thing. I've wasted too many nights on just one fight because people take forever deciding what to do. No one in their right mind would enjoy sitting around a table for 20 to 30 minutes waiting for their chance to take a 30 second action. And it usually ends up being just one or two people in the group slowing it down for everyone else.
The hit location isn't a bad idea at all, and I think your reaction is very narrow minded (not being insulting, just saying :)). That is something that really depends on what the players (and GM) want. If they want to know where they were hit, who's to argue? It saves the GM the hassle of being blamed for a character loosing an eye, if it was determined randomly, rather than the GM deciding it.
It seems to me that you must be opposed to any and all house rules. After all, if any house rule were meant to be used in the game, it would, as you said, have been incorporated in the rules.
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It seems to me that you must be opposed to any and all house rules. After all, if any house rule were meant to be used in the game, it would, as you said, have been incorporated in the rules.
Actually, there are many that I like, among them are the Cha x X (X being 2 or 3) free BP for contacts, giving the free knowledge pool for those using karma generation and splitting Magic and Edge out of the half-point limit for the karma generation (the latter two being what it takes to make the generation system truly usable in my opinion). There are others, but I can't think of 'em off the top of my head.
Basically the ones I support are the ones that are a boon to the players, as the players should be far better than the NPCs. Adding things like hit locations (just as an example) harms the PCs far more than it would any NPC.
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I have experimented with utilizing A Penny for My Thoughts (http://www.orphicinstitute.com/?page_id=65) as a pregame exercise to flesh out backgrounds. It's a GMless role playing exercise, and has a very interesting back story to the game itself that lends to a single point of origin for all the players in the game.
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A4BG, the trend I've noticed is that you hate stacking things too far against PCs. And I agree.
But timers dont at all when I have the same constraint. And I dont use Hit Location for every shot, because frankly 1 and 2 box hits arent worth it. But I've never had a complaint about hearing a big hit described as "he blasts your left hand to ribbons, but avoids vital organs" or roll 2d10, getting 20, and crying "BOOM! Headshot. Damn you."
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I'll tell you one my favorite moments GMing and a player (whos a good friend of mine) honestly stunned the table in a moment of awe with brought props. He didnt tell anyone he had props. Best 2 karma i ever handed out for RP. Ok so the set up was the night before session they did a job and caught a break got intell of a drug and arms deal about to go down in 3 hours at a parking garage. Basic car swap kinda thing so they get a plan grab gear and head out to intercept wanting both cars. Well the session ended with them pullling into the parking garage they still had to go to 3 floors up. So the next night we all sit down to play and he gets up and says i'll be right back got to use the bathroom. So we are all WTF as you can imagine. We are talking and what not he halted the game and in a flash he plops down at the table one hand in his backpack the other reaches for dice.
Hes in completly differnt clothes. All black, a black turtleneck, black leather gloves a stalking cap like he just got off from working 8 hours on the docks and to top it off he's wearing a clear hard plastic mask. You know the one in the movies thats featureless. He pulls out of his pack more masks, one for everyone at the table. We played the rest of the night wearing the masks when masks were called for. Completly unorthadox, but i have to admit it was fun and good humor. It was a nice change of pace seeing new faces on old mugs that sit at your table to play shadowrun.
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to a4bg, I have noticed to in other posts by you, you pretty much hate anything that doesnt help you powergame. You wont play in a game that you can die in, you all for PC's mopping the floor with NPC's and now that a timer gets tossed out there its nope worse idea ever. The timer is what we use and yes it stops the bs at the table when combat comes up. Plus in the case of running astral, matrix, and regular world it helps so people dont hog the time using abilitys, Its a life saver when you have to do indivual times aswell when they split up. I am actually intrigued if there is any type of serious thought or challenge in the games you play in. Do you GM at all or just player?
Almost forgot, Yes to hit locations they are cool.
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to a4bg, I have noticed to in other posts by you, you pretty much hate anything that doesnt help you powergame. You wont play in a game that you can die in, you all for PC's mopping the floor with NPC's and now that a timer gets tossed out there its nope worse idea ever. The timer is what we use and yes it stops the bs at the table when combat comes up. Plus in the case of running astral, matrix, and regular world it helps so people dont hog the time using abilitys, Its a life saver when you have to do indivual times aswell when they split up. I am actually intrigued if there is any type of serious thought or challenge in the games you play in. Do you GM at all or just player?
Almost forgot, Yes to hit locations they are cool.
How much time do you give each player?
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Let's keep this on the subject and not on other posters.
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On how long 30 seconds per player turn in combat it doesnt seem like long but sit and watch 30 secs tic by on a clock. A full circle turn gets done in less then 3 minutes. We use the rule of max 12 dice so counting up sucess is easy. I use index cards to keep track of npc's. I just arange them relitive to where they are on the board behind the screan and mark off damage. We also use a megnetic marker board so we can do the line up of who turn it is.Well worth 10 bucks. You can slap people around in the line up with litttle fuss.
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Chess timers.
[Snip]
I know some here hate it immensely, but I also use Hit Location tables.
I have one player who takes longer than the others, so I've been considering a timer of some type myself; I find it hard to determine what a 'fair' time limit is, though. Sometimes a player at my table will take a probably a few minutes to run their turn because they have lots to do, or to look up (new players), but they have made their action decision and are executing it as fast as they can. The slower player takes the time making the decision, while we all wait, but might still take that same few minutes. I don't really want to force everyone's turn down to 30 seconds (or whatever), but if I set everyone's turn at 3 minutes then the remainder of the players would be 'encouraged' to take longer to complete their turn, thus making the whole combat round longer.
On the it location, you didn't specify, but do you use it for RP or do you add more mechanics to the game?
For example, I'd have no issue with a GM that said (after soak roll) "you get shot for 3 points in the right arm" so that I could RP favoring that arm, with my character not having any extra mechanical penalties to using it. I'd not be so Ok with that shot in the right arm further hampering my ability to fire my gun, beyond the basic wound penalty itself.
I would be much more in favor of the hit location chart that gave additional penalties if it was just a random way of determining a result for a damage-soak glitch or crit glitch, since those results are GM determined anyway.
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I'm pretty loose without how I do hit location; usually it's just for RP flavor, but for hits that do 3+ boxes of damage, it becomes mechanical. Say a guy takes a Panther shot, resists all but 4 damage. If he takes it to the chest, it's just 4 damage and I inform him he he likely has perforated organs. If he takes it to the hand, I'll rule it as 1 damage but you lost that hand, at least funcionally. He's gonna need surgery or a cyberhand. Leg hit? Less damage, but now movement penalties.
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I have one player who takes longer than the others, so I've been considering a timer of some type myself; I find it hard to determine what a 'fair' time limit is, though. Sometimes a player at my table will take a probably a few minutes to run their turn because they have lots to do, or to look up (new players), but they have made their action decision and are executing it as fast as they can. The slower player takes the time making the decision, while we all wait, but might still take that same few minutes. I don't really want to force everyone's turn down to 30 seconds (or whatever), but if I set everyone's turn at 3 minutes then the remainder of the players would be 'encouraged' to take longer to complete their turn, thus making the whole combat round longer.
My opinion still holds that the only "fair time limit" is No Time Limit. Nothing anyone can say will ever change my mind about such BS.
On the it location, you didn't specify, but do you use it for RP or do you add more mechanics to the game?
For example, I'd have no issue with a GM that said (after soak roll) "you get shot for 3 points in the right arm" so that I could RP favoring that arm, with my character not having any extra mechanical penalties to using it. I'd not be so Ok with that shot in the right arm further hampering my ability to fire my gun, beyond the basic wound penalty itself.
This is why I do not feel hit locations should be used. Too easy to abuse in terms of GMs handing out arbitrary "extra penalties" all in the name of supposed "realism".
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. The timer is what we use and yes it stops the bs at the table when combat comes up. Plus in the case of running astral, matrix, and regular world it helps so people dont hog the time using abilitys, Its a life saver when you have to do indivual times aswell when they split up.
Stopping the BS and OOC conversations and tangets that naturally happen are one thing- I'm all for using the timer for that to speed things up. BUT on the other hand, I have played various RPG games with different folks and have run into several that are just naturally slow people- their processes just run slower then other people and take more time- even when planning ahead a turn it takes them time. (and I'm not talking mentally challenged folks either). It seems to penalize those folks whos inclinations dont run as fast as you(or me or other folks).
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When one person is making the rest of the table not have fun, even if he can't help it, something's gotta change, whether it's adding time limits, a long conversation with the parties involved, a change in game or game style, or unfortunately removing that player as a last resort.
Edit: All4, we are aware of your sentiments, and as much as I think.you're wrong, I respect them. That said, repeatedly saying "that's bs" is exactly the least effective way to win hearts and minds.
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When one person is making the rest of the table not have fun, even if he can't help it, something's gotta change, whether it's adding time limits, a long conversation with the parties involved, a change in game or game style, or unfortunately removing that player as a last resort.
Instead of timers, have you ever tried the Intiative DM? Faster player is in charge of the iniative sheet- its worked well for us. Basically he keeps the order running with reminders- player 1 is up, reminds player 2 is next and player 3 is after start preparing- when player 2 is up, tells player 3 he's next and player 4 should start getting ready and so on? Its sped our games up better then worrying about a death clock.
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Good idea - I'll give it a try
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When one person is making the rest of the table not have fun, even if he can't help it, something's gotta change, whether it's adding time limits, a long conversation with the parties involved, a change in game or game style, or unfortunately removing that player as a last resort.
Instead of timers, have you ever tried the Intiative DM? Faster player is in charge of the iniative sheet- its worked well for us. Basically he keeps the order running with reminders- player 1 is up, reminds player 2 is next and player 3 is after start preparing- when player 2 is up, tells player 3 he's next and player 4 should start getting ready and so on? Its sped our games up better then worrying about a death clock.
Everyone in the group keeps track of the entire initiative order. We just naturally keep it in mind both so we know who goes before and after our own initiative and if someone has a bout of "cranial flatulence" any one of us can give a reminder of who's up. That said, our main problems with things taking a while is going off on random tangents at times (some are worse than others but everyone's been guilty at least once).
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Instead of timers, have you ever tried the Intiative DM?
[Snip]
Basically he keeps the order running with reminders- player 1 is up, reminds player 2 is next and player 3 is after start preparing- when player 2 is up, tells player 3 he's next and player 4 should start getting ready and so on? Its sped our games up better then worrying about a death clock.
I feel strongly that the GM running is responsible for tracking the Initiative, but when my group is asked for a volunteer to track Init, no one wants to do the job, so it does fall to the GM by default anyway.
However, I have not tried the 'who's up to bat next announcement' type thing. That might actually help us out, even with the slow player.
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I don't know if its unorthodox or not, but because my group is still in the process of learning Shadowrun 4, but I make sure that both for PCs and NPCs that we all announce the calculation of our die pools.
We start with Skill + Attribute and announce positive modifiers, then negative modifiers. That way the rest of the table can throw in reminders about various other mods we may have forgotten. I’m bad at remembering the wound penalties for NPCs, but since I have little counters next to each NPC on the board, the players can see what I should be subtracting and help me remember.
I’d recommend the practice to any other new group, too.
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That's a good rule for first learning any game really, and keeps people honest to boot (also a problem I've had previously, solved with unattendec lotion and some hot sauce).
I also keep track of campaigns on a spreadsheet calendar, because events in my 2 groups, events among npcs, and canon events may interact in cool ways, but it's a lot to keep up with.
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I can tell you what Out group uses.
The "Initiator 1000".
We had the same kind of "lag" problems that you are talking about. One of the guys came up with a magnetic dry-erase board then he got strip magnets and label one for each of our characters, then made some for "Bad guy #1, 2, 3, 4, etc etc, Drone 1, 2, 3..... How ever specific you want to label them. Then stick the board up by the GM but plainly visible to all at the table.
That way everyone knows they are about to go or have a lot of people before they go.
It's helped streamline our stuff, from Shadowrun to DnD.
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It's not that these guys don't know the order, it's that they'll take 10 to 15 minutes per IP to to decide what to do and they're thinking about it the whole time. Say there's 5 mooks, 5 players. "Bob, you're last of 10"...."Bob you're up soon"...pass hits Bob, rest of team knows to go get food because he'll still be thinking another 5 minutes.
Fortunately, one of the 2 guys causing the lag at our table is a good horror GM because he is the most descriptive speaker I've ever met. When he spends forever to decide "aw well, I shoot it", you wanna kill him. 15 minutes of monologue about the Otherworldy Temple in front of you, kind of enthralling.
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I don't like the players knowing who's next after the current turn until it comes. Especially in regards to them knowing who, on the other team, is next. It takes away from the suspense, in my opinion.
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One of the best ideas I've seen both as a player and that I have implemented as a GM is having players place their hand on their head when they are talking out of character. It works fantastically if your group has a tendency to go off topic frequently as you have other players play off of what is being said.
EX: I had a member who was talking to one of my friends who was spectating (we had just finished character sheets and only had about 2 hours left to play so we made her a character later) they were in a relatively loud conversation and as a GM/player I reacted as though everything the member said was in character. The conversation stopped and we returned to the game.