Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => General Discussion => Topic started by: Basic on <07-16-12/2136:09>
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I wanted to know if the erased quality would erase information connected to a fake sin I am using ?
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The quality does explicitly state that the information that you would want to be burnt is erased, so I don't see any interpretation any other way.
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Its even better. You dont need fake sin. Use your real one, and let everything unwanted disappear.
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Its even better. You dont need fake sin. Use your real one, and let everything unwanted disappear.
Stuff still gets known, even if it's not on the Matrix. Best to play it safe.
It does mean you won't need to Burn your fake SINs nearly so often, though. Just when you want to dump an alias.
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I know, oldschool detectives with pen and paper notepads :)
Hell...
The worst case scenario is that you got imprissoned BEFORE your criminal record is deleted. And THEN your criminal record is deleted. smells like rotting flesh...
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I know, oldschool detectives with pen and paper notepads :)
I know youngschool ones with the same. You can write faster than trying to put something into a SmartPhone, and it's harder to "lose on the server" if it's on a notepad you keep organized.
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Its even better. You dont need fake sin. Use your real one, and let everything unwanted disappear.
Or better yet, you have a fake or two, which you use for Biz, and a real one, which you use when you're pretending to be a straight citizen.
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So will it erase stuff on a fake sin so I can keep it longer ?
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So will it erase stuff on a fake sin so I can keep it longer ?
I would say yes, otherwise, you're not getting what you're paying for.
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So will it erase stuff on a fake sin so I can keep it longer ?
Yes.
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So will it erase stuff on a fake sin so I can keep it longer ?
Yes.
Hmm. Okay then I have a question (maybe I'm just being a noob here) How do you assign a Quality to a fake SIN? To Your SIN yeah I get that, but an item you purchase?
Is that gonna cost Karma to buy the quality?
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So will it erase stuff on a fake sin so I can keep it longer ?
Yes.
Hmm. Okay then I have a question (maybe I'm just being a noob here) How do you assign a Quality to a fake SIN? To Your SIN yeah I get that, but an item you purchase?
Is that gonna cost Karma to buy the quality?
If you have the quality, it should be affecting all of your SINs, real and fake.
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There is funny option that your fake sin gets also deleted :)
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I just wasn't reading it that way, but I'll go with the consensus. Thanks.
Anyone else wanna chime in on this?
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It specifically doesn't happen.
Obviously, the eraser will preserve
any data the character wishes preserved and that is vital for her to
function in society.
The quality strictly only destroys unwanted data.
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Since it says that it burns only what you _WANT_ burned... well, it could lead to all the evidence and charges against you being erased, while they still have the record of you being arrested.
Just imagine this:
*24 hours after arrest*
"Hey, hoss, what'd you guys say I was in here for, again?"
"You know drek-well why you're in here, scum!"
"Yeah, well, humor me. What's it say on the arrest report?"
*clickety*
"What the frak? It says no charges were ever filed!"
"Well goddamn, it's jus' like I was tellin' the truth when I said I was innocent, or somethin'."
"You stay put, I'm checking up on this!"
*more clickety*
*opens cell door*
"I don't know what you did, but there's nothing in the system on you other than your arrest report. Get your stuff and get the hell out before I throw you back in for loitering."
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... of course, when you need to burn that Fake SIN ... Erased does that for you, too.
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I know, oldschool detectives with pen and paper notepads :)
I know youngschool ones with the same. You can write faster than trying to put something into a SmartPhone, and it's harder to "lose on the server" if it's on a notepad you keep organized.
Sounds like the Records On File negative quality to me.
Remember that GMs can assign negative qualities in play as they see fit. :)
-k
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I know, oldschool detectives with pen and paper notepads :)
I know youngschool ones with the same. You can write faster than trying to put something into a SmartPhone, and it's harder to "lose on the server" if it's on a notepad you keep organized.
If you can write faster then 250 words per second you've probably spent your build points wrong.
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I know, oldschool detectives with pen and paper notepads :)
I know youngschool ones with the same. You can write faster than trying to put something into a SmartPhone, and it's harder to "lose on the server" if it's on a notepad you keep organized.
If you can write faster then 250 words per second you've probably spent your build points wrong.
sorry but...what?
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What Sichre said: what??
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DNI means up to 250 words are a free action already pen and papers influences on the world is waning in the face of E-Media. Including things like data entry with your mind (with accompanying feed from your cybereyes) and you'd have to be a neo-luddite private eye (in which case your in the wrong line of work) to still be futzing around with pen and paper.
Concerned about data integrity and privacy? Back up your data on chips chips and keep it off the matrix. For the vast bulk of the run of the mill populace tech is the better way to go. In fact i'd be really suprised if you could find notepads by 2070+ outside of specialty stores. Embrace the future people, please just stop trying to make it Tolkien Noir.
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Agreed. We're actually seeing it already, our local PD records interviews and noted on Samsung Galaxy's
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Back up your data on chips chips and keep it off the matrix.
This approach is exactly why the Corrupt program exists. Eventually (if you don't catch it in time) you backup the corrupted copy, and poof, your backups are wrecked too.
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what about versioning? and at least one place i worked at backed up critical data on hard drives. admittally, they reused the hard drives in a fortnightly cycle, but the idea is still good...
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Since it says that it burns only what you _WANT_ burned... well, it could lead to all the evidence and charges against you being erased, while they still have the record of you being arrested.
Just imagine this:
*24 hours after arrest*
"Hey, hoss, what'd you guys say I was in here for, again?"
"You know drek-well why you're in here, scum!"
"Yeah, well, humor me. What's it say on the arrest report?"
*clickety*
"What the frak? It says no charges were ever filed!"
"Well goddamn, it's jus' like I was tellin' the truth when I said I was innocent, or somethin'."
"You stay put, I'm checking up on this!"
*more clickety*
*opens cell door*
"I don't know what you did, but there's nothing in the system on you other than your arrest report. Get your stuff and get the hell out before I throw you back in for loitering."
It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...
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It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...
Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed. ;)
They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.
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true, oh so very true :)
Its a selective quality, which wipes what needs to be wiped and nothing more. I've seen two versions:
The expert hacker friend (Jane-In-The-Box) who keeps the character looking like a respectable citizen, but wont hack anything that will draw attention (figuring that some hacks will draw more attention then letting the damage go). So sometimes some stuff gets out, but generally the character has a clean record as a private detective.
Then their was the gal whose Hunted did the Erasing. So stuff was erased, but also stored so that they could monitor and track the Runner in question. They were agressive and even hacked an Ares task force. But everytime they 'erased' something, it bought the runner closer to her doom... ok, hasn't happened yet, but one day the other foot will fall!
Erased is a roleplaying quality, not just some random circumstance. Its not unintelligent, but driven by the motivation and skill of the 'eraser'. Obviously it shouldn''t be Joe from local tech support who erasses your criminal history or that 'unfortunate' news clip (when will runners release going commando doesn't mean that!). And some things shouldn't be erasable. Cybereye footage, unless uploaded, should be fine, hard copy pics, hard copy files, etc, and really, really public events? How do you erase something that's gone viral and had hundred thousand hits already? There are limits...
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DNI means up to 250 words are a free action already pen and papers influences on the world is waning in the face of E-Media. Including things like data entry with your mind (with accompanying feed from your cybereyes) and you'd have to be a neo-luddite private eye (in which case your in the wrong line of work) to still be futzing around with pen and paper.
Concerned about data integrity and privacy? Back up your data on chips chips and keep it off the matrix. For the vast bulk of the run of the mill populace tech is the better way to go. In fact i'd be really suprised if you could find notepads by 2070+ outside of specialty stores. Embrace the future people, please just stop trying to make it Tolkien Noir.
Well, you did notice that this thread is focused on Erased quality, did you? Embrace your Erased electronic past ;)
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It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...
Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed. ;)
They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.
I'm curious how many GMs and players have lawyers show up as part of campaigns? Does anyone buy one as a contact?
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Most of my players have had a Judge or lawyer contact per team, mostly for legwork. It's rare they're actual services are needed, though our TM did marry an investigative journalist once.
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I'm curious how many GMs and players have lawyers show up as part of campaigns? Does anyone buy one as a contact?
A good criminal attorney is part fixer, part info-broker, and part cover.
So...
(http://www.thehollywoodnews.com/wp-content/uploads/bb_saul_goodman1.jpg)
Better call Saul!
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"Otto Sinclair. I'm from 1-800-1 -GO-FREE." - 3KMTG
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I think in my next life I'm going to make a shadowrunner that IS a lawyer. Then give him the erased quality so he can sue anyone that 'wrongfully imprisons him'.
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It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...
Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed. ;)
They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.
Eh it'd be careful with that, Sinner is supposed to be a nagative quality. If your letting a positive quality + negative quality = Better positive quality then that's something I would come down hard on GM wise. But then again I do run with the mentality that there are no gotchas against me in Shadowrun.
Don't get me wrong Erased is a great quality as it takes care of most of the modern detritus of daily life. I'm just skeptical of it's ability to be a magical get out of jail free card.
Generally the way I'd run it, especially if the runners were thrown in jail for something fairly major, murder, arson, french poodle breading without a permit their going to be issued a criminal SIN at booking with a a provisional tag shortly after booking. That SIN is hard to make go away (after all hacking the SIN databases are epic hacks, that's why runners rely on good forgeries as opposed to just having Joe hacker gin them up a new SIN). Now erased will kick in and eventually their hacker pal will get into the database and erase the links between the two SINs. But that doesn't stop the fact that there's now a criminal sin in the system with the runners biometrics. It may very well come back to haunt them occasionally until they get somethign done about it.
Rule 0 Always Applies: Don't Get Caught
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It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...
Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed. ;)
They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.
Unless the Fake SIN is broken, which is a crime.
And if they're not using a Fake SIN, there's trespassing.
And, honestly, I love the line, "Weither it exists or not, we'll find the evidence, sir." Great for a politically dangerous case!
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It's not often that a runner gets arrested for something that ain't memorable...
Hence "You know drek-well why you're in here, Scum!" followed by surprise at the lack of charges being filed. ;)
They know, personally, that he did something, but there's no evidence in the system to hold him with, and he's got a nice, squeaky-clean SIN that says he's a Law Abiding Citizen.
Eh it'd be careful with that, Sinner is supposed to be a nagative quality. If your letting a positive quality + negative quality = Better positive quality then that's something I would come down hard on GM wise. But then again I do run with the mentality that there are no gotchas against me in Shadowrun.
Don't get me wrong Erased is a great quality as it takes care of most of the modern detritus of daily life. I'm just skeptical of it's ability to be a magical get out of jail free card.
Generally the way I'd run it, especially if the runners were thrown in jail for something fairly major, murder, arson, french poodle breading without a permit their going to be issued a criminal SIN at booking with a a provisional tag shortly after booking. That SIN is hard to make go away (after all hacking the SIN databases are epic hacks, that's why runners rely on good forgeries as opposed to just having Joe hacker gin them up a new SIN). Now erased will kick in and eventually their hacker pal will get into the database and erase the links between the two SINs. But that doesn't stop the fact that there's now a criminal sin in the system with the runners biometrics. It may very well come back to haunt them occasionally until they get somethign done about it.
Rule 0 Always Applies: Don't Get Caught
Considering that you're netting either even or paying 5 points (maybe more, can't remember exact costs at the moment, but it is not likely to be less than even even with the lowest Erased), there's honestly not a problem in the world with getting the good parts of having a SIN--not counting Criminal SIN--without the annoying shyte.
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I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.
I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv
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I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.
I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv
However, take a look at Astral Hazing on a non-awakened character: Minor inconvenience since heal-spells are at -4 Force, but otherwise you're getting paid to be a walking Force 4 Mana Static spell.
Erased (Weekly) and SINner (regular) cancel out... but you're still spending 5 points off your cap for Positive Quality and Negative Quality points, so you're still expending resources and should get a net benefit. You can still be tracked by your SIN, and people can break into your home in the middle of the night and do bad things to you while you sleep, but Erased means that LEGAL repercussions are going to be much easier to get rid of, if you take reasonable precautions.
Erased (Daily) and SINner cost you a net of 5 BP and take even more Quality points, so the fact that your LEGAL troubles vanish isn't at all out of line, considering how many extra-legal threats there are. You might be teflon-coated as far as the courts are concerned, but that's not going to stop the Yakuza, or even some off-the-clock Cops, from tuning you up and leaving you in dire need of some Cyberhands if you're ever gonna use your fingers again.
SINner (Criminal) brings its own bag of pain since, until you pay Karma to get it burned for good, you still get treated like an ex-Con, with all the hassles that entails.
... ... ...
For some reason, I now want to play a Technomancer (non-SINner) with Alias or Idoru for a paragon, and the Erased (Daily) as a "blessing" from the Resonance Entity in question.
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I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.
I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv
In fact, thios combination...Erased SINner, is very good story tool...if the player can use it. I dont know how often we meet players who are just abusing qualities to get some free BPs. Everyone is talking about it like it is a great issue,, well Ive never meet such player...IRL...befeore Ive come to forums that is...and since I as a GM a cooperating with players who are creating their characters, I have no such problem. Experienced it once...player made character that was perfectly viable and playable, and after a few runs and after reading all sourcebooks he decided that this living creature is not enought and insisted that he wants to create another character. I told him to spend karma to get his current character to the level he want. Not an option. So I told him to GTFO and never come back.
srry if not comprehensive well Im celebrating birthdaya and am a bit...DRUNK :D
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I disagree (there's a shock) if you getting points for something that is ultimately a positive then that's an issue.
I'm afb but I believe both sinner and erased come in 5 and 10 point varieties. Basically if your going non criminal son you get a free super advantage. At my table I'd caution Players to be mindful of this. But I tend to see disadvantages as character defining not just a path to extra points. Ymmv
However, take a look at Astral Hazing on a non-awakened character: Minor inconvenience since heal-spells are at -4 Force, but otherwise you're getting paid to be a walking Force 4 Mana Static spell.
Erased (Weekly) and SINner (regular) cancel out... but you're still spending 5 points off your cap for Positive Quality and Negative Quality points, so you're still expending resources and should get a net benefit. You can still be tracked by your SIN, and people can break into your home in the middle of the night and do bad things to you while you sleep, but Erased means that LEGAL repercussions are going to be much easier to get rid of, if you take reasonable precautions.
Erased (Daily) and SINner cost you a net of 5 BP and take even more Quality points, so the fact that your LEGAL troubles vanish isn't at all out of line, considering how many extra-legal threats there are. You might be teflon-coated as far as the courts are concerned, but that's not going to stop the Yakuza, or even some off-the-clock Cops, from tuning you up and leaving you in dire need of some Cyberhands if you're ever gonna use your fingers again.
SINner (Criminal) brings its own bag of pain since, until you pay Karma to get it burned for good, you still get treated like an ex-Con, with all the hassles that entails.
... ... ...
For some reason, I now want to play a Technomancer (non-SINner) with Alias or Idoru for a paragon, and the Erased (Daily) as a "blessing" from the Resonance Entity in question.
The second part of this is exactly what I was saying, I just didn't think that going so in-depth was needed. Why go out of the way to mess with the character on the worst parts of SINner if they're not really netting any points out of it?