Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: zion on <08-09-12/2032:47>
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First I will say I got a lot of info from UmaroVI (mostly gear) and lurkeroutthere. So thanks to you guys!
The big problem I'm having is deciding whether i should drop something for some knowledge skills. Any other advice is welcome too! Thanks for the help, I can't wait to play my first SR campaign!
My GM finally decided to not limiting any starting availabilities like he was going to originally. So we are doing the basic 400BP and leftover BP converts to 5k nuyen per BP. :)
== Info ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 1
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 8
Lift/Carry: 5 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 10
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 4
AGI: 3
REA: 2
STR: 1
CHA: 3
INT: 5
LOG: 5
WIL: 5
EDG: 2
RES: 5
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 7
IP: 1
Matrix Initiative: 11
Matrix IP: 3
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 11
== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 4
Animal Training : 0 Pool: 4
Archery : 0 Pool: 2
Armorer : 0 Pool: 4
Artisan : 0 Pool: 4
Automatics : 0 Pool: 2
Blades : 0 Pool: 2
Climbing : 1 Pool: 2
Compiling : 4 Pool: 9
Computer : 4 Pool: 9
Con : 4 Pool: 7
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 4
Data Search : 4 Pool: 11
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 4
Disguise : 0 Pool: 4
Diving : 0 Pool: 3
Dodge : 0 Pool: 1
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 2
Etiquette : 4 Pool: 7
First Aid : 1 Pool: 6
Flight : 1 Pool: 2
Forgery : 0 Pool: 2
Gunnery : 0 Pool: 2
Gymnastics : 1 Pool: 4
Hacking : 6 Pool: 11
Hardware : 4 Pool: 9
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 2
Infiltration : 0 Pool: 2
Instruction : 0 Pool: 2
Intimidation : 0 Pool: 2
Leadership : 4 Pool: 7
Locksmith : 0 Pool: 2
Longarms : 0 Pool: 2
Navigation : 0 Pool: 4
Negotiation : 4 Pool: 7
Palming : 0 Pool: 2
Parachuting : 0 Pool: 3
Perception : 1 Pool: 6
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 3
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 1
Pistols : 0 Pool: 2
Registering : 3 Pool: 8
Riding : 0 Pool: 1
Running : 1 Pool: 2
Shadowing : 0 Pool: 4
Software : 4 Pool: 11
Survival : 0 Pool: 4
Swimming : 1 Pool: 2
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 2
Tracking : 0 Pool: 4
Unarmed Combat : 0 Pool: 2
== Knowledge Skills ==
== Qualities ==
Allergy (Common, Mild) (Women (contact: real world only))
Analytical Mind
Incompetent (Clubs)
Media Junkie (Mild)
Sensitive System
Technomancer
== Complex Forms ==
(Tradition: Info Savants, Resist Fading with INT + RES (10))
Analyze Rating: 5
Browse Rating: 5
Decrypt Rating: 5
Exploit Rating: 5 (Mute)
Stealth Rating: 5
== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months
== Armor ==
Clothing ("poncho") 0/0
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
H-jumpsuit 3/2
SecureTech Forearm Guards 0/1
SecureTech Helmet 0/2
SecureTech Shin Guards 0/1
SecureTech Vitals Protector1/1
== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
DV: 1S AP: - RC: 0
== Commlink ==
Living Persona (5 (6), 5, 5, 3)
+Living Persona
+Biofeedback Filter Rating 3
Meta Link (1, 1, 1, 2)
+Vector Xim
== Gear ==
Earbuds Rating 1
+Skinlink
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
Fake SIN (Maximillion Razor) Rating 3
Glasses Rating 1
+Skinlink
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Image Link
KE IV x100
Medkit Rating 6
Optical Tap
Response Enhancer Rating 1
Satellite Link
Tag Eraser
== Vehicles ==
GM-Nissan Doberman (Medium)
+Chameleon Coating
+Rigger Cocoon, Basic
+Walker Mode
+Weapon Mount (Normal, External, Turret, Remote) Rating 1
+Camera, Trideo Rating 2
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Low Light
+Camera, Trideo Rating 2
+Thermographic
+Vision Magnification
+Clearsight Rating 3
+Copy Protection Rating 3
+Registration
+Medium Drone Sensor
+Laser Range Finder
+Motion Sensor
+Thermometric
+Microphone Rating 2
+Spatial Recognizer
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
+Pepper Punch x30
+Targeting (Self) Rating 3
+Copy Protection Rating 3
+Registration
== Karma Expenses ==
== Nuyen Expenses ==
== Notes ==
My character only has a commlink just so he can broadcast his fake SIN with it.
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no need to have first aid as you can use a medkit without the defaulting penalty. I would say drop Athletics 1 given your low strength and agility isnt not worth the 10 points. Drop one in agilty and put it in body so you get an extra box of pyshical damage. Also since your agility is low, I would recommend getting gunnery as you use the drone's response plus the skill to fire a gun on a drone.
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Because you have no cyberware, I would recommend getting the quality Lightning Reflexes for increased REA and initiative passes in the meat world.
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I really recommend against Lightning Reflexes. First, it only adds Reaction, not IPs. Second, if you cared about that, Acceleration is a much more sensible way to do it, or drugs.
You're getting nearly no use out of that 5 logic; I would probably drop to 3. I also don't think you really need a 5 willpower over, say, a 3 all that much, although it's not as useless.
It really is worth starting with a 6 resonance, because of the way CF costs scale with karma but are flat with BP.
Registering 4 is a good idea, because of the bp/karma cost difference of raising skills.
Charisma actually is relevant to you, since you have face skills and it sets your maximum registered sprites. I'd most definitely prioritize it over both Logic and Willpower.
Paragons are always worth it. 01 and Flow are both good generalist paragons if you aren't sure.
Decrypt isn't really worth it as a CF. You can get a sprite to do that for you, and you rarely need to decrypt in such a hurry that you can't Compile first.
Remember you get free Knowledge/Language skills. Generally, you should never buy more with BP; if you would want to, buy more Logic and Intuition instead.
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I really recommend against Lightning Reflexes. First, it only adds Reaction, not IPs. Second, if you cared about that, Acceleration is a much more sensible way to do it, or drugs.
You're getting nearly no use out of that 5 logic; I would probably drop to 3. I also don't think you really need a 5 willpower over, say, a 3 all that much, although it's not as useless.
It really is worth starting with a 6 resonance, because of the way CF costs scale with karma but are flat with BP.
Registering 4 is a good idea, because of the bp/karma cost difference of raising skills.
Charisma actually is relevant to you, since you have face skills and it sets your maximum registered sprites. I'd most definitely prioritize it over both Logic and Willpower.
Paragons are always worth it. 01 and Flow are both good generalist paragons if you aren't sure.
Decrypt isn't really worth it as a CF. You can get a sprite to do that for you, and you rarely need to decrypt in such a hurry that you can't Compile first.
Remember you get free Knowledge/Language skills. Generally, you should never buy more with BP; if you would want to, buy more Logic and Intuition instead.
I'm not sure i understand why logic isn't useful. . .it's used for hacking and the other computer related skills isn't it?
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Nope. It's the linked skill for things like PuSHeD, but you don't actually use it on the matrix. For technomancers, it sets your maximum complex forms (you can't start knowing more than Logicx2) and it sets your System, which is almost never relevant.
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I really recommend against Lightning Reflexes. First, it only adds Reaction, not IPs. Second, if you cared about that, Acceleration is a much more sensible way to do it, or drugs.
All I can say is...
WTF? I could have sworn I just read one of the qualities and it had extra IPs. I have to go back and re-read the books now. I hate being wrong like that.
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I actually did mean to have a point in gunnery. Must have missed it somehow. Okay i've incorperated some changes but as I thought my hacking and computer skills went down when i lowered my logic. Pool was 11 now it's nine for hacking.
== Info ==
Street Name:
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 1
Public Awareness: 0
Human
Composure: 8
Judge Intentions: 10
Lift/Carry: 5 (15 kg/10 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 4
AGI: 2
REA: 2
STR: 1
CHA: 5
INT: 5
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 2
RES: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 7
IP: 1
Matrix Initiative: 11
Matrix IP: 3
Physical Damage Track: 10
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Active Skills ==
Animal Handling : 0 Pool: 4
Animal Training : 0 Pool: 4
Archery : 0 Pool: 1
Armorer : 0 Pool: 2
Artisan : 0 Pool: 4
Automatics : 0 Pool: 1
Blades : 0 Pool: 1
Climbing : 1 Pool: 2
Compiling : 4 Pool: 10
Computer : 4 Pool: 7
Con : 3 Pool: 8
Cybercombat : 0 Pool: 2
Data Search : 4 Pool: 9
Demolitions : 0 Pool: 2
Disguise : 0 Pool: 4
Diving : 0 Pool: 3
Dodge : 0 Pool: 1
Escape Artist : 0 Pool: 1
Etiquette : 3 Pool: 8
First Aid : 0 Pool: 2
Flight : 1 Pool: 2
Forgery : 0 Pool: 1
Gunnery : 1 Pool: 3
Gymnastics : 1 Pool: 3
Hacking : 6 Pool: 9
Hardware : 4 Pool: 7
Heavy Weapons : 0 Pool: 1
Infiltration : 0 Pool: 1
Instruction : 0 Pool: 4
Intimidation : 0 Pool: 4
Leadership : 3 Pool: 8
Locksmith : 0 Pool: 1
Longarms : 0 Pool: 1
Navigation : 0 Pool: 4
Negotiation : 3 Pool: 8
Palming : 0 Pool: 1
Parachuting : 0 Pool: 3
Perception : 1 Pool: 6
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 Pool: 3
Pilot Watercraft : 0 Pool: 1
Pistols : 0 Pool: 1
Registering : 4 Pool: 10
Riding : 0 Pool: 1
Running : 1 Pool: 2
Shadowing : 0 Pool: 4
Software : 4 Pool: 9
Survival : 0 Pool: 2
Swimming : 1 Pool: 2
Throwing Weapons : 0 Pool: 1
Tracking : 0 Pool: 4
Unarmed Combat : 0 Pool: 1
== Knowledge Skills ==
Engineering : 4 [Electrical] Pool: 7 (9)
Firearms : 2 [Design] Pool: 5 (7)
Security Design : 4 [Government] Pool: 7 (9)
Security Tactics : 6 [Government] Pool: 9 (11)
Underworld : 3 [Forgery] Pool: 8 (10)
== Qualities ==
Allergy (Common, Mild) (Women (contact: real world only))
Analytical Mind
Incompetent (Clubs)
Media Junkie (Mild)
Paragon (Flow)
Sensitive System
Technomancer
== Complex Forms ==
(Tradition: Info Savants, Resist Fading with INT + RES (11))
Analyze Rating: 6
Browse Rating: 6
Disarm Rating: 6
Exploit Rating: 6 (Mute)
Stealth Rating: 6
== Lifestyles ==
Low 1 months
== Armor ==
Clothing ("poncho") 0/0
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
H-jumpsuit 3/2
SecureTech Forearm Guards 0/1
SecureTech Helmet 0/2
SecureTech Shin Guards 0/1
SecureTech Vitals Protector1/1
== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
DV: 1S AP: - RC: 0
== Commlink ==
Living Persona (5 (6), 3, 3, 3)
+Living Persona
+Biofeedback Filter Rating 5
Meta Link (1, 1, 1, 2)
+Vector Xim
== Gear ==
Earbuds Rating 1
+Skinlink
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
Fake SIN (Maximillion Razor) Rating 3
Glasses Rating 1
+Skinlink
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Image Link
KE IV x100
Medkit Rating 6
Optical Tap
Response Enhancer Rating 1
Satellite Link
Tag Eraser
== Vehicles ==
GM-Nissan Doberman (Medium)
+Chameleon Coating
+Rigger Cocoon, Basic
+Walker Mode
+Weapon Mount (Normal, External, Turret, Remote) Rating 1
+Camera, Trideo Rating 2
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Low Light
+Camera, Trideo Rating 2
+Thermographic
+Vision Magnification
+Clearsight Rating 3
+Copy Protection Rating 3
+Registration
+Medium Drone Sensor
+Laser Range Finder
+Motion Sensor
+Thermometric
+Microphone Rating 2
+Spatial Recognizer
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
+Pepper Punch x30
+Targeting (Self) Rating 3
+Copy Protection Rating 3
+Registration
== Karma Expenses ==
== Nuyen Expenses ==
== Notes ==
My character only has a commlink just so he can broadcast his fake SIN with it.
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I think that's just a quirk of Chummer. You roll skill+CF.
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Hmm, i don't have a hacking specific form though, unless exploit is the same. Where do i find this rule? I've been looking through SR4 and UN and cannot find it. All I found was that on page 120 of the SR4 anniversary edition, it lists hacking's linked attribute as logic.
I'm brand new so I want to understand it's just hard to find all the info sometimes lol.
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I think i found what your were suffering to on page 103 of UN
Hacking electronics
computer + logic for general function
computer +program rating if within the normal paramaters but unusal task
computer + logic to understand an unfamiliar device
hacking + program rating to make it act outside of legitimate parameters
So i guess to hack something like cyberware or to get information that's locked up it would be hacking+exploit?
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Actually, it depends on what action you are specifically attempting to undertake when hacking. If you take a look at the programs under the heading Hacking starting on page 233 SR4A, you'll see that there are a variety of programs and what their uses are.
Exploit, for example, is used to take advantage of security flaws to gain unauthorized access to a node. Spoof, on the other hand, creates false ids and passwords to access nodes and/or confuse tracking programs. And Stealth attempts to hide you from other system processes.
So depending on what you are doing, you'd use the rating for the most applicable program.
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So that's why logic+hacking is mostly useless?
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having a decent logic is used for handling most types of locks as they are cracked with logic+hardware but yeah it doesnt help your actually hacking at all.
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I think the "attributes aren't used on the matrix" thing is mostly explained on SR4A 226.
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My advice would be not to play a technomancer as your first character.
Play a different character for a while as you get used to the Matrix rules and build your future TM.
It's the most complex role you could possibly pick, so, as a first-timer, you should set your sights a little closer to the ordinary while you learn the system.
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My advice would be not to play a technomancer as your first character.
Play a different character for a while as you get used to the Matrix rules and build your future TM.
It's the most complex role you could possibly pick, so, as a first-timer, you should set your sights a little closer to the ordinary while you learn the system.
While I appreciate the advice, our whole group is new and i'm sure no matter what we play, we all will be learning what we should have done. I am also going to be the one most versed in the matrix as i own unwired and I am trying to get through the book. :) Plus, technomancers are just cool. :p
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Right, chummer figures the pools based on the traits but not the programs. It's not a big deal because honestly folks need to learn where their pool is coming from anyway. By the letter of the law you can't have a sprite decrypt for you. As a former crypto tech I find this six kinds of weird but if you were going for a strictly legal character (say for missions) that's something to remember even if personally i'd not want to enforce it at my tables.
Logic also affects your living persona's system rating so it's not entirely worthless.
Looking at the build it looks pretty good for a pure technomancer. I do kind of disagree with Umaro on resonance 6 even though i can see his point about overall costs, just 25 points is a huge drain at character gen.
The biggest actual problem I see with your character conceptually is with his huge charisma he's a decent face or backup face and with his high intuition he's good at all the all important skill of ambush spotting. On the other hand his pathetic reaction, agility, and lack of a weapon skill means he's a pretty big liability if the crap hits the oscillator while he's in the meatworld. I hope someone else on the team has a vehicle to get you around. I recommend either finding the points for a Bulldog or buying/stealing one soon after character creation. Turn it into the decker bunker on wheels and stay in there as much as possible. Raise your stuff to make you more meat world survivable with Karma when you can.
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Right, chummer figures the pools based on the traits but not the programs. It's not a big deal because honestly folks need to learn where their pool is coming from anyway. By the letter of the law you can't have a sprite decrypt for you. As a former crypto tech I find this six kinds of weird but if you were going for a strictly legal character (say for missions) that's something to remember even if personally i'd not want to enforce it at my tables.
That is true for nodes only, but yes, you have to decrypt nodes on your own. IMO, this isn't a big deal; even if you suck at it, since it's a not-too-hard extended test. This is why I always insist on at least EW 1 no matter what, since it's not defaultable.
Logic also affects your living persona's system rating so it's not entirely worthless.
System affects so very few things, though, that IMO it isn't worth it at all beyond what you need for your CFs. The only other thing worth caring about is subscription slots, but even then I'd rather have 2-3 logic and use Connectivity to fix that, and it really only matters if you're trying to run a centralized tacnet from your bionode (which is, in fairness, pro).
Looking at the build it looks pretty good for a pure technomancer. I do kind of disagree with Umaro on resonance 6 even though i can see his point about overall costs, just 25 points is a huge drain at character gen.
It is, but with 5 CFs it's 30 bp now or 70 karma later, and I'd rather pay upfront.
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For reference, what's the RAW that says a sprite can't decrypt a node for you as a task?
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I just re-read the rules on sprites, and there is nothing that says a Sprite cannot decrypt a node as a task. In fact, the Crack sprite can have the CF Decrypt (optional), so why couldn't it use that as a task?
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If you have the key to a particular encryption, you decrypt it with this
action. If you use this on a file, the file becomes decrypted. If you use
this on a node or Matrix traffic, you may access the node or read the
traffic, but it remains encrypted to others.
Pg. 229 SR4A. I'm not arguing the technical sense of the rule, just that the rule exists. On the other hand since SR decryption has nothing to do with real world decryption I suppose it makes as much technical sense as anything in that context.
Personally I presume that anything actually encrypted worth getting will have encryption 6 or better. A 12 threshhold is nothing to sneeze at even on an extended test even with a dicepool of 9 (CF/Program of 6, EW 1, 2 for hotsim) it's part of why i'm a big believer in math coprocessors, analytical mind, and a higher EW skill rating for anyone serious about the matrix. Also if their using stronger 1 day or 1 hour encrption from unwired time might very much matter. In short in many cases when you actually need to decrypt something you needed it decrypted about 2 passes ago. Your millieage may vary on how much you feel it's worth it. About the only thing I would swap encryption out for is either blackout or attack, you won't need either much if things are going well, but on the days you need them you'll be glad you have them. Blackout is also supremely useful for when there's an enemy hacker nosing about your system, knock them unconcious then trace them back to their meatbod and pick em up or hack their comlink and get everything you could ever want to know about them.
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If you have the key to a particular encryption, you decrypt it with this
action. If you use this on a file, the file becomes decrypted. If you use
this on a node or Matrix traffic, you may access the node or read the
traffic, but it remains encrypted to others.
Pg. 229 SR4A. I'm not arguing the technical sense of the rule, just that the rule exists. On the other hand since SR decryption has nothing to do with real world decryption I suppose it makes as much technical sense as anything in that context.
I think this is being taken out of context. The passage seems to be implying that if you decrypt a node or a file, it is still unencrypted to a random person -- it's not like the file shows up in a 'cracked' state, decryption means you have the key, even nodes. Unwired backs this up, too:
'A hacker may Decrypt the node, after which she can access it, as can anyone else with whom she shares the Decrypted key.' (UW, pg 66)
Coupled with:
'Since technomancers maintain a link with their sprites, as long as they remain online, they are able to communicate and exchange information in terms of text, files, and even impressions.' (UW, pg 154)
It seems clear a sprite could decrypt a node, get the key, then share it with you.
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1)
Decryption [...] Once a file is decrypted by any user, it remains decrypted, but when a subscription or node is decrypted by a user, it remains decrypted only for that user. [...]
2) Node Encryption [...] A hacker may Decrypt the node, after which she can access it, as can anyone else with whom she shares the Decrypted key.
- A sprite decrypts a file: The file is now decrypted and can be read by anyone. That one is easy. :)
- A sprite decrypts a node: It can share the Decryption key via link with the technomancer because the "Node Encryption"-rules say so...
- A sprite decrypts a signal/subscription: Common sense dictates a similiar ruling as with node decryption... but the rules do not gererally state decrypting yields you a decryption key, only that doing so breaks the encryption.
So, while nodes and files seem ok, RAW it unfortunately is debatable to have a sprite decrypt a signal for you. :'(
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1) Decryption [...] Once a file is decrypted by any user, it remains decrypted, but when a subscription or node is decrypted by a user, it remains decrypted only for that user. [...]
2) Node Encryption [...] A hacker may Decrypt the node, after which she can access it, as can anyone else with whom she shares the Decrypted key.
- A sprite decrypts a file: The file is now decrypted and can be read by anyone. That one is easy. :)
- A sprite decrypts a node: It can share the Decryption key via link with the technomancer because the "Node Encryption"-rules say so...
- A sprite decrypts a signal/subscription: Common sense dictates a similiar ruling as with node decryption... but the rules do not gererally state decrypting yields you a decryption key, only that doing so breaks the encryption.
So, while nodes and files seem ok, RAW it unfortunately is debatable to have a sprite decrypt a signal for you. :'(
I really think this taks an almost willful misreading of the rules to get to that point though:
- Subscriptions and node are in the same list (e.g., things which are not publicly exposed when decrypted), not a list of 'things which do not possess a decryption key'.
- "Most of the time, encrypted subscriptions, files, and nodes are decrypted with a key. " - (UW, 66).
So, we know subscriptions have a key too.
But let's suppose you believe the sprite can't give you the key after decrypting a signals encrypted communication. Well, sprites *can* transfer data. So just tell it to transfer the decrypted data to you, and not worry about the key.
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Paradoxically decrypting a node or signal doesn't create a key to be passed, maybe it's the nature of the quantum computing in SR. I think there was a passage that was even more explicit on it, but i'd have to go looking for it which I can't do right now.
Like i said, i don't really care for the rule, but it is literally the rule, sprites have decrypt so they can decrypt things, not so technomancers never have to practice decryption.
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I really think this taks an almost willful misreading of the rules [...]
As do i... ;D
But i've encountered this "sprites can't decrypt for you"-statement more than once in different gaming groups and forums. And these rules are the only ones i know that can remotely explain where this comes from.
Personally i have no problem with sprite decryption. 8)
As for the key/no key thingy... of course signal encryption will likely use encryption keys. But use of the decrypt-programs to break an encryption doesn't state if you aquire the encryption key in the process.
Trying to get/guess/calculate/whatever the encryption would be today's real-life way of breaking encryptions. But science in SR 2070+ often contradicts real science and there is only a vague statement in UW of "cryptanalysis techniques being far advanced of encryption theory.". So it seems perfectly reasonable -at least for me- to assume a fictional mathematical method of breaking an encryption without trying to get the key.
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Paradoxically decrypting a node or signal doesn't create a key to be passed, maybe it's the nature of the quantum computing in SR. I think there was a passage that was even more explicit on it, but i'd have to go looking for it which I can't do right now.
Please see the passage from UW I cited above:
'A hacker may Decrypt the node, after which she can access it, as can anyone else with whom she shares the Decrypted key.' (pg 66, UW).
So yes, it does explicitly say that when you decrypt a node, you get the key.
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I really think this taks an almost willful misreading of the rules [...]
As do i... ;D
But i've encountered this "sprites can't decrypt for you"-statement more than once in different gaming groups and forums. And these rules are the only ones i know that can remotely explain where this comes from.
Personally i have no problem with sprite decryption. 8)
As for the key/no key thingy... of course signal encryption will likely use encryption keys. But use of the decrypt-programs to break an encryption doesn't state if you aquire the encryption key in the process.
Trying to get/guess/calculate/whatever the encryption would be today's real-life way of breaking encryptions. But science in SR 2070+ often contradicts real science and there is only a vague statement in UW of "cryptanalysis techniques being far advanced of encryption theory.". So it seems perfectly reasonable -at least for me- to assume a fictional mathematical method of breaking an encryption without trying to get the key.
Well, there are even cryptoanalytic techniques today that can result in you breaking a given blob of encrypted text without acquiring the key.
But the point of my argument is that either (i) the RAW heavily imply you do, and don't contradict it anywhere, (ii) even if they did, the RAW explicitly state that a sprite can share data with the technomancer who compiled it. So, the sprite can decrypt a communication and then send you the contents of it -- which is effectively the same thing as getting the key.
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Yeah, this is frequently a problem. Node decryption is really the only thing where it particularly matters, and SR4A and Unwired disagree about whether you can decrypt for other people. I use Unwired's ruling myself on a "the rules published in the matrix supplement overrule the core rules" basis, but some people will use SR4A because it was published later.