Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Icy on <08-12-12/1741:39>
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Arsenal classifies weapons in three sizes:
1) All up to LMGs fit on a normal weapon mount
2) The larger ones need the reinforced weapon mount
3) Vehicle weapons
3) Is perfectly clear, but what is "LMG sized"?
In my opinion: All pistols, SMGs, assault rifles, shotguns, sport rifles, battle rifles and of course LMGs themselves
The bigger ones would be:
MMGs
HMGs
Assault cannons
Missile launchers
Mortars
Snipers - I was unsure about them, but as the snipers in SR are the big long range ones, I put them here. Smaller designated marksman rifles seem to fall under battle rifles in gameplay terms.
Grenade launchers and flame throwers are questionable.
I ruled that most grenade lauchers and flame throwers are smaller than or equal to LMGs. There is a pistol grenade launcher and a SMG sized flame thrower and they can even be part of a smaller weapon as underbarrel versions, so the stand alone versions should be okay too. However, the backpack flamethrower and the 20 shot grenade launcher from Arsenal are not.
Is that how it's intended?
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"Someone set up this Smart Weapon Mount, but put only a Streetline Special on it?"
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"Someone set up this Smart Weapon Mount, but put only a Streetline Special on it?"
To paraphrase Burn Notice (a show that, when you think about it, is about shadow running), "The best kind of trap isn't the one that makes your enemy run away. A good trap with confuse your enemy, and make him want to get closer and have a look."
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"Someone set up this Smart Weapon Mount, but put only a Streetline Special on it?"
To paraphrase Burn Notice (a show that, when you think about it, is about shadow running), "The best kind of trap isn't the one that makes your enemy run away. A good trap with confuse your enemy, and make him want to get closer and have a look."
And when they get close enough, the Pepper Punch Bombs go off. ;D
Yes, Burn Notice, especially the early episodes, are very Shadowrun. "The streets find new uses for things" is proven when you see how many ways there are to use stolen/borrowed cell phones.
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after noticing the love of burn notice on these boards i decided to see what all the fuss is about. and you know what? i love it! thank you Jackpoint!
as to what fits on a weapon mount? My group's rigger tends to favor going to the exact limit of what the standard mount is able to handle by throwing on an LMG minigun. what it lacks in subtlety it makes up for in bullets. smaller drones tend to get smaller weapons for the simple sake of not being ridiculous, while our larger vehicles tend to have the heavy mounts and heavier weapons.
ok i got a bit sidetracked there, but there is a point: the GM is your standard measure of what can fit on a weapon mount, and when in doubt common sense is your best yardstick.
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Anything can fit on a weapon mount. Anything smaller than a LMG will need to have a mount fabricated to fit into a weapon mount.
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Anything can fit on a weapon mount. Anything smaller than a LMG will need to have a mount fabricated to fit into a weapon mount.
Not true. Anything LMG size or smaller will fit in a normal weapon mount. Anything larger than a LMG needs a reinforced mount.
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I would say that sniper rifles and grenade launcher are "smaller or equivalent" to LMG... but I tend to say stupid things recently so ...
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Anything can fit on a weapon mount. Anything smaller than a LMG will need to have a mount fabricated to fit into a weapon mount.
Not true. Anything LMG size or smaller will fit in a normal weapon mount. Anything larger than a LMG needs a reinforced mount.
Umm no. I don't know about game mechanics, but in real life, LMG's, and MG's in general, are made with mounting spots in mind; nothing more than a hole through the frame to slide a locking pin into. Anything smaller than an LMG doesn't have those mounting holes as a standard option and therefore will need a special modification or a fabricated mount to lock onto a weapon mount.
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Anything can fit on a weapon mount. Anything smaller than a LMG will need to have a mount fabricated to fit into a weapon mount.
Not true. Anything LMG size or smaller will fit in a normal weapon mount. Anything larger than a LMG needs a reinforced mount.
Umm no. I don't know about game mechanics, but in real life, LMG's, and MG's in general, are made with mounting spots in mind; nothing more than a hole through the frame to slide a locking pin into. Anything smaller than an LMG doesn't have those mounting holes as a standard option and therefore will need a special modification or a fabricated mount to lock onto a weapon mount.
Right, but this is a super-happy-future-fun-time weapon mount. It's probably got some cool, high-tech widgety bits to make it fit anything.
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Like the Schlockverse Fiddily Bits?
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Anything can fit on a weapon mount. Anything smaller than a LMG will need to have a mount fabricated to fit into a weapon mount.
Not true. Anything LMG size or smaller will fit in a normal weapon mount. Anything larger than a LMG needs a reinforced mount.
Umm no. I don't know about game mechanics, but in real life, LMG's, and MG's in general, are made with mounting spots in mind; nothing more than a hole through the frame to slide a locking pin into. Anything smaller than an LMG doesn't have those mounting holes as a standard option and therefore will need a special modification or a fabricated mount to lock onto a weapon mount.
Right, but this is a super-happy-future-fun-time weapon mount. It's probably got some cool, high-tech widgety bits to make it fit anything.
Mechanically, it works just as I said. But really, IRL you have to adjust any mounting system for the individual weapon, even between different weapons of the same class. And you can make a mount where you clamp something down securely if they don't have holes, and you don't want to drill. As well as adjusting ammo feeds. Just take it as part of the Armorer check to change out weapons, and let it sit. If you want to go crazy with things, you could always go the way of first ed DnD, where you have a table you roll on to determine whether you can make a fire. KISS principle in action.
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And you can make a mount...
I rest my case.
Like I said, I'm not sure of the mechanics, and considering the lack of gun knowledge in SR's writers, I'm sure it's not addressed, but for RL baseline knowledge (just about) damn near everything that falls into a machine gun class is going to have mounting points built into the frame. Anything smaller than an LMG, (AR, BR, etc.) won't have those mounting brackets. You can fabricate those, easily, but it's really pointless.
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Well, who's going to buy us time at the range then?
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Well, who's going to buy us time at the range then?
buy you time at the range? get the amo get the Ar and just tell the the man at the gate that i'm at the range and walla ;D
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Snipers - I was unsure about them, but as the snipers in SR are the big long range ones, I put them here. Smaller designated marksman rifles seem to fall under battle rifles in gameplay terms.
Grenade launchers and flame throwers are questionable.
I ruled that most grenade lauchers and flame throwers are smaller than or equal to LMGs. There is a pistol grenade launcher and a SMG sized flame thrower and they can even be part of a smaller weapon as underbarrel versions, so the stand alone versions should be okay too. However, the backpack flamethrower and the 20 shot grenade launcher from Arsenal are not.
Is that how it's intended?
If it can be carried and shot by a man without assistance, it can fit on a weapon mount.
So, no MMG or HMG, and no main guns, natch.
Grenades, snipers, assault cannons, even wack-a-doo shit like laser rifles can all be hefted and used by a man just as easily (in some cases as difficultly) as a SAW.
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LMG or smaller is a holdover from the 2nd edition days where they used that term for firmpoints which are currently called a regular weapon mount (Rigger 2 131). I believe this was based on the fact that the Firearms skill at the time covered pistols, rifles, SMGs, LMGs, grenade launchers, and tasers. The skill for heavy weapons was Gunnery which covered machine guns, missile/rocket Launchers, assault cannons, and vehicle mounted weapon. That's what I'll use a cut-off since that's when they came up with the definition of what was lighter than an LMG since all of the weapon groupings have changed but they kept the phrase.
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Well, who's going to buy us time at the range then?
buy you time at the range? get the amo get the Ar and just tell the the man ta the gate that i'm at the range and walla ;D
The "Can" in my username stands for "Canadian".
The likelihood of me ever owning an AR-10 or AR-15 is pretty damned close to Zero. And if I showed up at any gate with one, I'd be arrested PDQ.
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Well, who's going to buy us time at the range then?
buy you time at the range? get the amo get the Ar and just tell the the man ta the gate that i'm at the range and walla ;D
The "Can" in my username stands for "Canadian".
The likelihood of me ever owning an AR-10 or AR-15 is pretty damned close to Zero. And if I showed up at any gate with one, I'd be arrested PDQ.
ha but i'll be going OUT for the range (the nice life you get when you live close to the 67 line) 8)
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I end up stuck another day in the US, and STILL don't get any range time.
That's it, next trip here, someone take me shooting!
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I end up stuck another day in the US, and STILL don't get any range time.
That's it, next trip here, someone take me shooting!
One of the best times I've ever had is when I went to the local range, and rented the Tommy gun. They said that because of the ammo they were using to preserve the life of the weapon, I could only fire it in Full Auto. Good times.
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Wow! In Australia, the only gun you will ever see is in the holster of a cop (and they don't get drawn very often) or out on a farm you might see a 22.
Paintball is as close as I will ever get to see any action (but maybe thats a good thing ;))
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I loved seeing British relatives come to the wedding in Montana and the 'scope eye' several of them had from the recoil. It was mind boggling how thrilled they all were to shoot a firearm.
Though admittedly, squeezing off some rounds is a very cathartic experience.
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Last time I was in Las Vegas, there were advertisements everywhere for gun ranges just outside the city limits where you could go and rent and shoot everything from heavy mounted machine guns on down.
The bigger ones even had their own shuttles to take you from your hotel to the range and back, like the brothels do.
I didn't ever get around to it, but maybe next time...
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Bastards the lot of you.
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I want to know where I can go to fire a live bazooka. That looks like it'd be hella fun.
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Join the military. You get to shoot all kinds of cool stuff. Sometimes at real people!
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Join the military. You get to shoot all kinds of cool stuff. Sometimes at real people!
Canadian Armed Forces wouldn't have me even before I shattered my elbow.
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Also, go to Cambodia. You can pay to fire an RPG-7 there. Not quite a bazooka (besides, a bazooka is so WW2) but still very fun.
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Also, go to Cambodia. You can pay to fire an RPG-7 there. Not quite a bazooka (besides, a bazooka is so WW2) but still very fun.
Go for an AR-15 / M-203 combo... that way you get to shoot an assault rifle, fire some grenades, and you have a better chance of hitting your target than with the RPG-7.
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come to the M.e you can get most wepons on the marcket ::) (if they dont kidnap you) ;D
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M.E?
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M.E?
Middle East I presume. Haven't gone myself, and probably wont. Just wish I could go to the range more often than my yearly qual.
Yes I'm military, US Marines. Stuck in Okinawa so there isn't a range outside of the ones for training.
Oh and my 2 nuyen, I would agree with modifying the mount as being part of the armorer check to swap out weapons. Maybe add +1 to the difficulty for some of the non-standard stuff (say assault, battle, and sniper rifles) and a +2 for the fairly weird stuff (like a pistol or SMG).
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Oh and my 2 nuyen, I would agree with modifying the mount as being part of the armorer check to swap out weapons. Maybe add +1 to the difficulty for some of the non-standard stuff (say assault, battle, and sniper rifles) and a +2 for the fairly weird stuff (like a pistol or SMG).
Maybe for a large, standardized mount (like military vehicles often have) it would take a lot of work to mount, say, a heavy pistol or an SMG, because they're not designed for guns that small. With the popularity of smaller vehicles and drones mounting weapons, there is likely very simple mounting hardware available in 2070 that can accommodate smaller arms without difficulty. Clamps and a trigger-pulling mechanism could allow a light mount to easily be used with almost any light firearm. Look at the rigs used to hold guns for testing, then put that in a turret or on a servo. It would require adjusting for accuracy and such, but it wouldn't be significantly more complicated than mounting a heavier weapon in a heavy mount.
Making the heavy mount universal would be more difficult, because the clamps wouldn't likely be enough to hold the gun in place while firing on full auto, so it would need lots of hols, bolts and pins to fit all of the different specs of the different major manufacturers. Unless heavy weapon mounts have been standardized into a few set configurations by the Corporate Council, like USB connectors today.
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Anything can fit on a weapon mount. Anything smaller than a LMG will need to have a mount fabricated to fit into a weapon mount.
Not true. Anything LMG size or smaller will fit in a normal weapon mount. Anything larger than a LMG needs a reinforced mount.
Umm no. I don't know about game mechanics, but in real life, LMG's, and MG's in general, are made with mounting spots in mind; nothing more than a hole through the frame to slide a locking pin into. Anything smaller than an LMG doesn't have those mounting holes as a standard option and therefore will need a special modification or a fabricated mount to lock onto a weapon mount.
Right, but this is a super-happy-future-fun-time weapon mount. It's probably got some cool, high-tech widgety bits to make it fit anything.
Mechanically, it works just as I said. But really, IRL you have to adjust any mounting system for the individual weapon, even between different weapons of the same class. And you can make a mount where you clamp something down securely if they don't have holes, and you don't want to drill. As well as adjusting ammo feeds. Just take it as part of the Armorer check to change out weapons, and let it sit. If you want to go crazy with things, you could always go the way of first ed DnD, where you have a table you roll on to determine whether you can make a fire. KISS principle in action.
But this isn't real life.
This is sixty some years in the future in a fictional world with magic and super technology.
For all we know they may have developed a mount where you can just toss a gun in the general direction of the mount and it'll handle the rest on it's own.
-k
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well in american gun they made a shot gun mount for a chopper so
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They also made a 3 gauge shotgun mounted on a boat in Vietnam. Stop comparing tech today to tech in 2070. If you told Eisenhower in WW2 that one day a remote control plane could kill someone from 30000 feet, and the missile could literally hit a dime, he probably would not say "well, that isn't possible today so therefore it isn't possible in the future". Same thing goes for people in the 1880s probably never thought an atomic bomb was possible. War breeds innovation. In shadowrun, there is a lot of war. Just chalk the mount issue up to "well, some genius figured it out".
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They also made a 3 gauge shotgun mounted on a boat in Vietnam. Stop comparing tech today to tech in 2070. If you told Eisenhower in WW2 that one day a remote control plane could kill someone from 30000 feet, and the missile could literally hit a dime, he probably would not say "well, that isn't possible today so therefore it isn't possible in the future". Same thing goes for people in the 1880s probably never thought an atomic bomb was possible. War breeds innovation. In shadowrun, there is a lot of war. Just chalk the mount issue up to "well, some genius figured it out".
well if they made the mount today it make sense that there will be no problem to make one in 2070 so .... 8)
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That being said, I agree with the Armorer check for weapon mounting.