Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Trog on <10-05-12/0904:50>
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So I think we've all kind of agreed that one of the balls dropped on the 4th Edition 20th Anniversary thing is they didn't touch up some of those characters. The Face, Enforcer and Bounty Hunter are selected for trashing a lot but to me the biggest offender is the Smuggler.
No close combat skills, Pistols at 8 with Smartlink, Can't lie. A smuggler without Disguise or Con just seems strange to me.
It has also been said that cars have really been improved as well so what would you do for a smuggler's cars?
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Ive been making new versions of the charecter archetypes. Without relying on augmented adepts or cyber arms all over the place. In the case of a smuggler, elf artisan adept with 5 magic 3 ips agi 7 chaisma 7 reactions 9 being the important ones. Good pilot, decent pistols decent influence(11dice) juryriging, gear head, modified hyndai shin. Shooty talky drivey basicly.
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Yeah, I'd really like to see that. :) Looks like it makes good sense.
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uses geas. but tbh pure adepts need it. Uploaded him on chmmer Name smuggler 2.0
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Ive been making new versions of the charecter archetypes. Without relying on augmented adepts or cyber arms all over the place. In the case of a smuggler, elf artisan adept with 5 magic 3 ips agi 7 chaisma 7 reactions 9 being the important ones. Good pilot, decent pistols decent influence(11dice) juryriging, gear head, modified hyndai shin. Shooty talky drivey basicly.
That's something I'd really like to see myself. It makes me uncomfortable seeing dump stats with cyber/bio making them average. I mean it makes sense in game. "Hey, I was born weak and too lazy to work out and muscle graphs are cheap-ish, sold," and it makes sense from a point shaving aspect. Just it doesn't settle well in my stomach. So yeah when you get these worked out, PLEASE not only post them send me a PM letting me know where the thread is :)
Also, sorry for the highjack on the thread.
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Race: Elf (30 BP)
Attributes: (190 BP)
:
B: 3
A: 2
R: 5
S: 2
C: 6
I: 4
L: 5
W: 1
Edge: 3
Ess: 4.55
Active Skills: (154 BP)
Mechanics Group 1
Influence Group 2
Stealth Group 4
Outdoors Group 1
Perception 1
Pilot Ground Craft 4
Pilot Aircraft 2
Gunnery 6
Armorer 1
Demolitions 3
Forgery 1 (ID Forging +2)
Knowledge Skills: (27 Free)
Spanish N
English 3
Nahuatl 3
Border Patrol Tactics 4
Auto Mechanics 3
Engineering 3
Aztec Politics 2
Hideously Expensive Things 3
Street Drugs 2
Smuggling Routes 4
Qualities: (-35 BP)
Incompetence: Hacking (-5 BP)
Combat Paralysis (-20)
Low Pain Tolerance (-10)
Cyberwares:
Internal Custom Commlink: 5/5/5/5
Control Rig
Data Jack
Implanted SimRig
Fingertip Compartment
Tooth Compartment
Skin Pocket
Gear and Lifestyle: (50 BP)
Middle Lifestyle (1 month)
Programs
Analyze 4, Browse 4, Command 5, Decrypt 5, ECCM 5, Edit 5, Encrypt 5, Scan 4, Sniffer 4, Stealth 5, Agent 4.
Pilot 4, Clearsight 4, Defense 4, Electronic Warfare 4, Maneuver (Groundcraft 4, Maneuver (Aircraft) 4, Targeting (Heavy Weapons) 4, Targeting (Automatics) 4.
Linguasofts: Cantonese 3, French 3, Inuit 3, Mandarin 3, Nihonji 3, Sioux 3, Sperethiel 3
Urban Explorer Jumpsuit w/helmet, w/ Chem Protection 6, Fire Resistance 6, Insulation 6, Nonconductivity 6
Ammunitions
20 HE Minigrenades (Dalmatian)
10 Gas Grenades (CS Gas, Doberman)
100 rounds of EX-Ex rounds (Doberman)
100 rounds of Gel (Doberman)
100 rounds of Tracer rounds (Lynx)
100 rounds EX-Ex rounds (Lynx)
100 rounds Gel (Lynx)
Rating 4 Fake SIN
Second Rating 4 Fake SIN
Vehicle Shop
Armorer Kit
Demolitions Kit
Drones
Eurocar Westwind 3K (Response 5, Signal 5)
Suzuki Mirage (stock)
Shiawase Kanmushi
MCT FlySpy
Doberman (Response 5, Signal 5, Ares Alpha)
Steel Lynx (Response 5, Signal 5, White Knight, Rating 4 Area Jammer)
Dalmatian (Response 5, Signal 5, Armtech Mini Grenade Launcher)
Contacts: (11 BP)
Fixer 2/2
Warehouse Owner 2/2
Software Pirate 1/2
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Combat paralysis is terrible, just terrible! Wouldnt recommend it on any character whatsoever.
How about picking up a phobia and allergy instead? It wouldnt gimp you in every combat situation anyway.
Also, if youre an incompetent hacker, why all the fancy commlink kit? You could easily do away with it and just get a stock one and save the essence. You can always use the optimisation and ergonomic options if you need high power programs.
No mods on that westwind?
Youll at least want a smuggling compartment, griguide override, morphing plates and probably ruthenium as well.
Id give it speed/accel boosts and run flats as well.
Maybe think about picking up a weapons skill too, you wont be able to tKe your lynx with you everywhere (theyre really big!) but a pistol would be fine and concealable
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Why not start here? http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=4495.0
The Negotiator with some changes should work. It already does shooty talky, so all you need to do is put in a drivy, and hoenstly, that's not a big cost.
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Cus... Those builds are cheese that id only alow a first time player to play
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Cus... Those builds are cheese that id only alow a first time player to play
Really? I didn't notice anything notably abusive about them; in fact, he avoided many of the most questionable options (multiple dumpstats, empathy software, most War! stuff, ect.). Optimization and cheese are very different things.
The builds there make a very good starting point for characters. You can power them down to taste (to add more versatility/RP options, ect.) afterwords.
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Ahem "yo im a social adept we are focused on self improvement and mastery of social skills. So i'm going to have. Agi 10 right cyberarm. "
I think the only adepts that should be allowed cyber ware are hermetic tradition artisans and burnouts. And the prime artisan build should be banned (mind over matter + cerebral boosters)
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Anyway I built a cool smugler adept. Premiss Way of the rat. THis is a THEMED CHARECTER I could build min max it harder sure, but that takes the fun out of it.
Main stats
Infiltrate 17
Con & negotiate 13-21
Pistols 12
Dodge 12
4 IPS
Smuggler
They way of the rat isn’t about cowardice it’s about survival. And the best way to survive is not to get noticed, to make no enemies and to be more usefull to people alive than dead.
METATYPE ELF
BODY: 3
AGILITY: 6
REACTION: 5 (8)
STRENGTH: 1
CHARISMA: 7
INTUITION: 5
LOGIC: 2
WILLPOWER: 2
MAGIC: 5
EDGE: 1
INIT PASSES: 1 (4)
QUALITY NAME
Adept SR4 90
Chatty UN 36
First Impression SR4 91
Geas (Improved reflexes) SM 27
Incompetent (Intimidation) SR4 95
Low-Light Vision RC 114
Mentor Spirit (Rat) SR4 92
Pacifist (Minor) SR4 95
Paranoia RC 107
Poor Self Control (Compulsive - Low Danger) (Coward) RC 107
The Totem's Way
SKILLS
INFLUENCE 4
PISTOLS 4
DODGE 4
INFILTRATION 6
PILOT GROUND 1
ADEPT POWERS
Cool Resolve 4 SM 176
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Infiltration) 3 SR4 196
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Negotiation) 2 SR4 196
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Con) 2 SR4 196
Improved Reflexes 3 SR4 196
Magic Sense
14 bp to spend on gear. Things to get decent comlink and sins, sensory gear, chamelon coating. Stick and shock + gun, armor. And a vehicle if theres anything left.
assumed charisma x 2 free contatcs. Id recoment lots of low loyalty contacts (buisness relationships) Because you dont have datasearch and wont be able to find new contacts easily, more contacts means more people to introduce you to others. Let them set you up on online meets..
Charecter advancement. Things that make sense
Stats Willpower and edge
Qualities Spirit pact with mentor spirit for concealment power.
Initiation Masking.
Adept powers: Traceless walk combat sense improved ability/atribute
Skills: Specialisations, datasearch pilot
Money Smuggling compartments + vehicles, safehouses, wining and dining contacts
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surely as a smuggler you need something, you know, to smuggle with? ie a vehicle?
probably, quite a tricked out one, maybe two, maybe a small fast boat too?
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well theres 14 bp left you can get a car for like 3bp if needed, you can jugle points around as needed. But you dont need a car you can smugle simply by infiltating from one place t another by foot. Heck you could smuggle optical chips with ilieagle data on them. Imo though whats most important is having lots of contacts that you can shift you goods on to.
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contacts are good, could even be worth taking a group contact so you have a proper distribution chain for your stuff. contacts do take BP though, so that 14 spare isnt going to go very far.
i think you'd need to spend more than 15k on a decent motor. you're gonna need a minimum of: spoof chip, gridguide override, run flats and morphing plates, thats a good couple of K right there.
depending on what your smuggling, you'll either need something big enough to carry it or big enough to carry lots of it, or something fast enough to get away from trouble. none of those options comes cheap, and probably isnt the kind of motor you take on a weekly shopping trip downtown.
as it is, you'll have to take a taxi to every meet by the time you've got a few contacts.
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I think the only adepts that should be allowed cyber ware are hermetic tradition artisans and burnouts. And the prime artisan build should be banned (mind over matter + cerebral boosters)
::) The key word here, of course, being: "I" ...
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Um... right. Because what people normally say isn't their personal opinion?
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No. Because it most definitely isn't what the rules were meant to be, even in spirit, or especially what is necessary to have a legit story or character, as your attitude might suggest you believe. Just wanted to point that out is all.
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Actually most traditions are VERY against essence loss. However augmenting adepts is ridiculously good mechanicaly therefore people do it. If you made it the other way round Ie made adepts better than augmented adepts, How many people would play it other than those wishing to roleplay either a burnout or hermatic tradition.
As to mind over matter logic to agi is just ridiculous end of.
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Adepts don't have traditions, by default. That's something you choose for your PC for RP purposes if you want. Adepts are generally more akin to the sorcerers of D&D - their magic manifests as it does, simply because of who the person is.
However augmenting adepts is ridiculously good mechanicaly therefore people do it. If you made it the other way round Ie made adepts better than augmented adepts,
This is a meaningless statement in the context of our discussion. The choices the devs made in regards Powers and 'ware costs were (presumably) made for specific reasons. Part of the uniqueness and allure of Shadowrun is the blending of magic and technology in a world. If the two "worlds" were meant to have more enmity - to not work as well together - the mechanics would reflect that. If a character wants to shun 'ware, that's just as viable of an RP choice as mixing the two is, and I lied before, this is what I really wanted to say: for you to disparage someone's work done as a free service for this community (or anyone's build choice in general, really) over that is extremely lame.
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well lets just agree to disagree and end the hijack of this thread.
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Good call, we can continue the discussion here:
http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=9016.0