Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: Redmercury on <10-10-12/0926:27>
-
I a little bit stumped over there being electric-shock bullets when no grenades deal electricity damage. Grenades in our time are more varied in use than bullets thanks to their payload space, so why hasn't anyone made a shock grenade?
My first thought was that you could make a grenade that spins rapidly through the air on a vertical axis and releases geckogrip stripped contact wires via airburst. There are a lot of flaws with that though, you can figure them out for yourselves.
My second idea doesn't require airburst, but it does require more dedicated engineering. You shoot the grenade, and it detonates with many small charges sending a lot (I'm not picking a number but you could stuff a lot in there) of small contact wires like the one above. It might be more effective, although way more expensive, to line, or tip the wires with mono-wire to get the contacts through armor. Although considering no one seems to give a damn that stick and shot bullets don't have to penetrate armor I don't see that being a big problem.
Your thoughts?
-
I imagined a shock grenade as more of a powerful capacitor+modified tesla coil type-thing combo that zapped everyone nearby. It would probably just ground itself instead, though.
A more realistic, and less mohawk style, grenade might be a microcharge (like the kind in splash grenades) that fires capacitor-laden gel (like stick & shock rounds) in all direction. Would probably be somewhat expensive though.
-
Maybe just a downsized version of the static discharge missile from arsenal?
Nah, that makes about as much sense as making some kind of adhesive taser-bullet for holdout pistols! forget i mentioned it. :P
-
The real-life problem with sending lots of wire (one way or another) from a central location is that current will choose the path of less resistance, and a (meta)human body is fairly resistant, so it will instead go through all those lovely wires that found nothing and are now lying over each other on the ground or (gasp) actually hit something metallic.
Another option would be to stuff the grenade with 'stick n' shock' bullets around a small explosive charge. Stick 'n shock are fairly outrageous too (and I'm definitely banning them from any game I run), but they are already part of the rules after all.
-
Another option would be to stuff the grenade with 'stick n' shock' bullets around a small explosive charge. Stick 'n shock are fairly outrageous too (and I'm definitely banning them from any game I run), but they are already part of the rules after all.
I'd leave 'em in for shotguns, honestly. Those and some equivalent of the real-world "Frag-12" micro-grenade round would actually make them worth grabbing.
But, back on topic, I agree. The '"submunitions" route really is the only way to do it without a lot of handwavium.
-
Either that or put a taser in a sticky grenade.
-
If I was making a 'shock grenade', it wouldn't be a grenade in the sense that it blows up, but a high-voltage capacitor that shot electricity out around it. However, the radius would be small, since generating that kind of power in a compact form isn't easy. And it would obviously be cutting edge research. I'd say the stats would be something like this:
Shock Grenade
8S(e), -half AP, 3m radius (10m radius in water), 16R availability. 200 nuyen each.
-
If I was making a 'shock grenade', it wouldn't be a grenade in the sense that it blows up, but a high-voltage capacitor that shot electricity out around it. However, the radius would be small, since generating that kind of power in a compact form isn't easy. And it would obviously be cutting edge research. I'd say the stats would be something like this:
Shock Grenade
8S(e), -half AP, 3m radius (10m radius in water), 16R availability. 200 nuyen each.
I suggested something like that. I'm not an electrical engineer, but I'm pretty sure that it would ground before it zapped anyone. I think the best best would be a stick&shock cluster bomb-esque grenade.
-
I light something on fire, maybe with incendiaries at the top of my MGL-6, the sprinklers come on. Those guards better hope they aren't standing in my puddle.
That's really dipping into expenses though. Low collateral, but damn those grenades will add up. I'd be better off using incendiary rounds in a shotgun, with an under-barrel grenade launcher.
-
I light something on fire, maybe with incendiaries at the top of my MGL-6, the sprinklers come on. Those guards better hope they aren't standing in my puddle.
That's really dipping into expenses though. Low collateral, but damn those grenades will add up. I'd be better off using incendiary rounds in a shotgun, with an under-barrel grenade launcher.
Well, they're capacitors not explosives, right? Why wouldn't you be able to gather them up and recharge them to use again?
Not counting things like running for your life from a horde of Cyberzombies, of course.
-
I was wondering that myself. If it doesn't burn out the capacitor then you just need a workbench to add the propellant again. Now that's what I call economical. I'd pay 1000 nuyen each for some of those. Those electric bills could kill though...
-
I was wondering that myself. If it doesn't burn out the capacitor then you just need a workbench to add the propellant again. Now that's what I call economical. I'd pay 1000 nuyen each for some of those. Those electric bills could kill though...
Not even that if it's a hand-lobbed version.
-
Or you could make it an air burst micro flack grenade, filling the air around it with metallic dust then hit that cloud with a capacitored burst and you have an electric FAE. A full stun rating throughout the blast zone but no overlapping and no "chunky salsa".
-
Or you could make it an air burst micro flack grenade, filling the air around it with metallic dust then hit that cloud with a capacitored burst and you have an electric FAE. A full stun stun rating throughout the blast zone but no overlapping and no "chunky salsa"
Oooh, another good idea.
-
Or you could make it an air burst micro flack grenade, filling the air around it with metallic dust then hit that cloud with a capacitored burst and you have an electric FAE. A full stun rating throughout the blast zone but no overlapping and no "chunky salsa".
This is good. Great idea.
-
Oooh, another good idea.
This is good. Great idea.
Thank you. Now any Ideas on blast radius?
* Should it be the full 10 meters of normal grenades?
* Half that?
What Damage rating?
And the all important question, "taze me bro" effect or not?
-
Definitely "don't tase me bro"
The radius should probably be half normal with full effect area-wide.
I'm thinking 8s for damage. Maybe 10s if you want to get all technical about the conditional modifiers. (grounding, number of targets etc..)
-
variant that fires an EMP effect, thru the same cloud of dust?
-
Definitely "don't tase me bro"
The radius should probably be half normal with full effect area-wide.
I'm thinking 8s for damage. Maybe 10s if you want to get all technical about the conditional modifiers. (grounding, number of targets etc..)
Ageed. Reduced area keeps it from being strictly "Flashbang+".
-
And a non-degrading radius of ten meters makes flashbangs "+" enough as it is. This one hits those beefed up trolls where it hurts though. Talk about making a non-lethal getaway too, in reference to vehicle chases.
-
Hi first post newbie here.
I'd probably work on the a rubber ball claymore mine that's been miniaturised into a handgrenade and has had the rubber balls replaced with stick n shock pellets.
Stingmore mine info.
http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Police-and-Homeland-Security-Equipment/I-454-Stingmore-Mine-United-States.html (http://articles.janes.com/articles/Janes-Police-and-Homeland-Security-Equipment/I-454-Stingmore-Mine-United-States.html)
Johnny Knoxville testing it on Jackass.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7JPFg2V27A (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7JPFg2V27A)
-
A more realistic, and less mohawk style, grenade might be a microcharge (like the kind in splash grenades) that fires capacitor-laden gel (like stick & shock rounds) in all direction. Would probably be somewhat expensive though.
Or you could make it an air burst micro flack grenade, filling the air around it with metallic dust then hit that cloud with a capacitored burst and you have an electric FAE. A full stun rating throughout the blast zone but no overlapping and no "chunky salsa".
These sound like the most realistic options, and would seem to be easily incorporated into the Shadowrunverse. I may even use the conductive-gel version...
-
Plus if you are using fine metalic powder it has the added bonus of making people it hits..... all sparkly and glittery.
-
Plus if you are using fine metalic powder it has the added bonus of making people it hits..... all sparkly and glittery.
Right before it lights them ablaze...
Oh, wait, I'm thinking of magnesium shavings.
-
now that is a whole new twist on the term flash-bang!!
may need to add a touch of powdered aluminum.
-
Plus if you are using fine metalic powder it has the added bonus of making people it hits..... all sparkly and glittery.
Right before it lights them ablaze...
Oh, wait, I'm thinking of magnesium shavings.
Would there be a problem with comibining the two?
seriously though, in the interests of completeness the other possibility I can think of which hasn't come up so far would be LIPC tech where a laser is used to create an ionized channel for the electrical charge to jump across (it's been floating around for a while as an Idea for "wireless" Tasers though to my knowledge none of them have got beyond the prototype stage (although this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=9tJF3qBWyUk) could make a fun door for the Shadowrunners to get past. ) shrinking it down to grenade size would be a trick since it's effectively a two stage system: the laser and the electrical discharge, so it would probably be bulky and energy hungry but I can't think of any particular reason why you *couldn't* do it that way but barring some advancements in energy storage I can't imagine you'd be able to get it to run very long so it's probably something more suited to one of those roller drones from the espionage section rather than a proper grenade.
-
The other possibility I can think of which hasn't come up so far would be LIPC tech where a laser is used to create an ionized channel for the electrical charge to jump across (it's been floating around for a while as an Idea for "wireless" Tasers though to my knowledge none of them have got beyond the prototype stage
I know I've heard a lot of complaints about War!, but on p155 there's the Ares Shockbeam that uses exactly this principle. Although I agree with your idea, having it in a drone would be more likely a more likely near-future use of it. Actually, I'm surprised that I haven't seen a drone armed with a laser or shock-weapon of some form, as it would be more likely able to handle the weight and massive batteries needed to run the weapon for a while (as opposed to making due with a Main Battle Troll).
-
Weapons that use only electricity sound ideal for drones. The lack of moving parts would really boost reliability, and they'd operate off of something they already have to have to operate.
-
tasers and lasers and flash-bangs! oh joy!!!
-
Y'know, there is a riot control device IRL that is essentially a Claymore mine firing a bunch of taser darts. Can't for the life of me remember the name. Help?
-
Y'know, there is a riot control device IRL that is essentially a Claymore mine firing a bunch of taser darts. Can't for the life of me remember the name. Help?
Shockwave, or something, IIRC. They used one on the SWAT vs SG6 episode of Deadliest Warrior, though, so it should be on the Wikipedia entry for that episode. I'd look myself, but I'm on my smartphone right now.
-
Is it the Taser Shockwave? http://recessionreadyamerica.com/2011/05/new-taser-shockwave-system-is-a-truck-mountable-taser-claymore-mine/ (http://recessionreadyamerica.com/2011/05/new-taser-shockwave-system-is-a-truck-mountable-taser-claymore-mine/) Yaaay police states! It seems a bit dangerous, can't believe this is a legal riot control device. Now I'm wondering why I haven't seen any tasers in FPS's. Imagine the humiliation shots.
-
I was going to say "Taser Shockwave" before Dude and Red beat me to it. Sometimes it's also called a "Taser Claymore", but I think that's just something passing through internet lingo.
Is it the Taser Shockwave? http://recessionreadyamerica.com/2011/05/new-taser-shockwave-system-is-a-truck-mountable-taser-claymore-mine/ (http://recessionreadyamerica.com/2011/05/new-taser-shockwave-system-is-a-truck-mountable-taser-claymore-mine/) Yaaay police states! It seems a bit dangerous, can't believe this is a legal riot control device.
I'd rather be hit with this than a shotgun with beanbag rounds with their tendency to not unfurl and thereby bruise ribs, or plastic rounds that have killed people in every country, or worse: "mushrooming" rounds that tend to fragment on striking unarmored people.
Now I'm wondering why I haven't seen any tasers in FPS's. Imagine the humiliation shots.
It's been in Siphon Filter, though it functioned more as an infinite-ammo "I hold down the button to burn you alive", quite unlike the function of a real taser. It might be in others, but I haven't been in the FPS scene for a while since DRM joined the picture.
-
If you have been following the news any, tasers have been linked to a number of deaths over the years, so even this "less than lethal" system is killing people...
-
If you have been following the news any, tasers have been linked to a number of deaths over the years, so even this "less than lethal" system is killing people...
The actual phrase is "Less Lethal," or at least it is these days. The word "than" isn't part of the equation, thus noting that they can potentially kill... they're just a lot (let me emphasise "a lot") less likely to kill you than a bullet hitting your center of mass at 2000 ft/sec.
-
IIRC, those people typically had preexisting conditions or other factors that contributed to their deaths.
-
IIRC, those people typically had preexisting conditions or other factors that contributed to their deaths.
Depends on the case. The guy at YVR in 2007 had no existing condition... Too soon for the autopsy on the guy last week in Surrey. But some had undiagnosed heart conditions.
-
All of the cases I've heard of involved pre-existing weaknesses (congenital heart weakness, etc). Either way, I think we all know pretty much anything can potentially be lethal. Even water (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Water_intoxication) can be toxic if taken to the right extreme.
Getting back towards the thread topic, Spy Games has a throwable micro-net that entangles enemies, so this could be seen as support for a conductive-filament-based electrical stun grenade. Or just get yourself a Taser Shockwave and have the capability to put down a crowd repeatedly. It's good PR because you're not spraying blood around, and it's safer than a rubber pellet claymore because you can re-activate it for those trolls and other toughies who didn't stay down.
-
It's good PR because you're not spraying blood around, and it's safer than a rubber pellet claymore because you can re-activate it for those trolls and other toughies who didn't stay down.
And that's one thing I really think is missing from the Taser rules... although only the already horribly under-crunched Defiance EX Shocker uses wires to actually take advantage of that capacity. The rest are basically purpose-built Stick'n'Shock dispensers.
Since Net Hits = Dart Placement, that would mean Same Darts = Same DV... so I could easily see spending another Simple Action to jam the trigger again and nail them again for the same DV. Downside, of course, is that it would take a Simple Action (Free with Smartlink) to disengage the cartridge and ready the next set of darts to be fired.