Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Gamemasters' Lounge => Topic started by: EccentricOwl on <11-03-12/0039:41>
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I am running a Shadowrun 4e game. I've got no regrets. It's a load of fun.
Well, for the most part. Most of my players like the setting and the roleplaying way more than the combat, hacking, and so on and so forth. Now they like it in doses, but they don't enjoy missions and sessions here it's the main focus of the game.
In small part because we're an older group who've grown impatient with the multiple initiative passes and dice rolls and just want to have fun RPing.
I'm looking to see if any of you have recommendations for roleplaying-heavy Shadowrun or Cyberpunk or even just sci-fi adventures. (Premade, is what I'm getting at, but if you've got some good plot threads I'd love to hear them.
Of course, I love RP-heavy adventures to begin with, so if you've got any favorites, share and share alike!
TL; DR
I'm looking for published or written adventures for any system with a big focus on roleplaying or some awesome roleplaying scenes.
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Hi
My experience with premade adventures, are that they are set up to be fairly straight forward with some combat and some puzzels.
Roleplaying is not a big part of those and social encounters are often desribed by a roll or two.
So I guess you have to modify what ever module you buy. Downplay the rules part and focus on the story. Often there is a fair amount of background in a module that explains the involved characters motives. You just have to emphasises those and let your group roleplay.
And just leave room to improvise.
Rasmus
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Heavily character-driven role-playing tends to be very character specific, driven by the particulars of a group, the quirks of the GM, and the players involved. They are, to compare to restaurants, a very personal dining experience custom tailored to the diner by a fantastic chef, prepared to their exact specifications with care and precision. But that sort of thing takes time and effort, and if you try to cut corners it can go sour pretty fast.
Pre-published adventures tend to be bundled and packaged collections of scenes designed specifically to be as applicable possible to as many players as possible, as easily understood by as many GMs as possible, and as easily played-through as possible regardless of group dynamic. They are, in contrast, the reliable and predictable quality of a chain restaurant, where you might not always get the mouth-watering meal that was exactly what you wanted, but you'll get it fast, reasonably priced, and without any surprises.
These two things are, as written, largely incompatible. You can't pre-write and publish playing a role. Without knowing your group, the whims of your players and the details of their characters, how can you? Any adventures you find, you're probably going to have to reskin and/or house rule. Any adventures you find that are broad enough to allow for heavy role-playing, you're probably going to have to put some work into in order to make them run as quickly and smoothly as a tighter, play-ready, adventure.
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Yeah, groups make a big difference. If you have a published adventure where, say, runners are offered money to go blow up a bridge, somegroups will wince, some will shrug, but most will do it. Pay them instead to snuff some guy and many groupswill flat-out say no.... but others will take the easy payday.
So, it's tricky to find one that can press the right buttons. Back in the day, "Hooker with a Heart of Gold" was the template, where most 'runners followed a code and wouldn't cross a line for any price. Selling out was losing. Later, 'runners became more professional, doing whatever was asked for the price (But some deeds would cost more) ... screw the other guy, I got mine jack. The idea of being the elite of the elite and not getting out of bed for less than 50,000Y ... and doing pro-bono work was unthinkable.
SO, the adventures with more RPin them are mostly older at this stage. Queen Eurphoria, for instance, or Dreamchipper, with Elven Fire and the much-maligned Imago being at angles as well.
I kinda wonder if there's not a market for smaller PDF-only modlues, rather than the larger 'super-modules' like Jet Set or the like.
No idea.
If you think that there might be, well, this is kinda the place to say so. Demand creates a supply, after all. :)
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Now, to add a bit of a counter-point... there are still lines that people won't cross, and things they'll do for free. They're just fewer and farther between.
I've got a character, for example, who will kill anyone and kill or destroy anything (yes, including orphanages and hospitals) if you pay him enough. He won't touch human trafficking with a 10-foot pole, though, and hate-groups... especially Human Supremacists... make his trigger-finger itchy.
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Try out "Now for Something Completely Different" it's fairly easy to do the entire run without having any fights outside of a deeply philosophical one that could just as easily be resolved through other means and lots of chances for talking to people/exploring your characters natures...
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Try out "Now for Something Completely Different" it's fairly easy to do the entire run without having any fights outside of a deeply philosophical one that could just as easily be resolved through other means and lots of chances for talking to people/exploring your characters natures...
I have one thing to say about this, unless it's a solo game. Boooooring!
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Try out "Now for Something Completely Different" it's fairly easy to do the entire run without having any fights outside of a deeply philosophical one that could just as easily be resolved through other means and lots of chances for talking to people/exploring your characters natures...
I have one thing to say about this, unless it's a solo game. Boooooring!
I'm not saying it's a good/great run in the essence of what makes a fun run to go on, if you don't believe me just check out my review http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=8352.0 of it.
But the OP asked for a run with a minimum of hacking/fighting so I gave him one.
The same way where if I was asked by an OP to name an adventure where Mr. Johnson tells you things that are wildly out of character and make no sense at all I would suggest he take a look at Spin Control, of if he wanted a run where all the people who could possibly hire you act like backstabbing pricks for no reason at all I would tell him to look at Firestorm.
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Try out "Now for Something Completely Different" it's fairly easy to do the entire run without having any fights outside of a deeply philosophical one that could just as easily be resolved through other means and lots of chances for talking to people/exploring your characters natures...
There's an issue of What If? that I've been after for years which includes a *great* bit based on this. It's only two pages, but I can't find page 2 scanned in anywhere. :(
It features Spider-Man vs the Mad Thinker, as presented in a story backed by the National Foundation for the Arts. The two face off against one another a debate over philosophy, where Spider-Man comes out the victor.
http://spiderfan.org/comics/images/what_if/034-c.jpg
If anybody can find page two, I would love you forever.
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Don't know the issue number by chance Wak?
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Don't know the issue number by chance Wak?
if I had to take a guess I'd bet on What If #34, because there' s a 34 in the page link and because I did a little quick googling to back up my hunch that number 34 was basically a bunch of really short one and two page gag what ifs...
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Don't know the issue number by chance Wak?
if I had to take a guess I'd bet on What If #34, because there' s a 34 in the page link and because I did a little quick googling to back up my hunch that number 34 was basically a bunch of really short one and two page gag what ifs...
Doh! Thanks James! :)
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Sometimes I feel shoehorned into having combat missions. I'm sure I'll think of something.
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There is no reason to have a run turn into combat.
An example from a run in one of the games I GM;
Team was contracted to gather information on a cult of awakened. Team was able to get their mage into the cult (after a bit of social engineering) and from there, they were able to gather information while RPing as the curious new cult members. Fast forward two days of RP (literally took 5 hours of game time worth of character interaction between PCs and NPCs) and the team cuts ties and reports info the the Johnson. Not a single roll of the dice (outside of some con and etiquette and the obligatory data search) happened for the entire game.
All you need to ask yourself, as a GM, is "What can the runners conceivably do outside of combat?" and then go from there when planning your run. If you're going with the published adventures, feel free to remove actors in situations wherein the combat is forced. Example below, because spoilers
(Perfect example being in the Jetblack adventure, when you're in the graveyard, you can simply just not have the third party come in guns-a-blazin' and let the PCs roleplay out the encounter with the woman.)
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Also, even if there is to be violence does not mean the PC's must be IN the violence. if the characters are more social and sneaky, planting evidence, working people up and turning them against each other could work as well.
If the runners want to get the McGuffin that's held by a gang/syndicate group, they could destabilize the power base by turning the trusted Lt against the boss and slipping in during the confusion or getting Gang A to war with Gang B.
It's a lethal system as well, so sometimes the threat of violence could prevent a need for one. A troll PC with a heavy weapon of some kind pointed at the surprised group might be enough to keep everyone from doing anything while the PC Face explains why they are taking the McGuffin and that it's in their best interest to just sit there. So the PC's are just making infiltration, con and intimidate rolls rather than shooting a place up. Or a sniper shooting the weapon out of the badguys hand might put talking back on the table.
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While I am not a GM, I can speak on the player side.
It drives me a little crazy when I am playing a high social character with the skills, contacts and knowledge to pull off social engineering skills only to be stonewalled.
Try to find an angry ex-employee to get information about a place. Go get records of employee dismissals, track down their information.
They're dead.
Oh well, guess I'll go with the "lets shoot our way in guys," plan the other people suggested.
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While I am not a GM, I can speak on the player side.
It drives me a little crazy when I am playing a high social character with the skills, contacts and knowledge to pull off social engineering skills only to be stonewalled.
Try to find an angry ex-employee to get information about a place. Go get records of employee dismissals, track down their information.
They're dead.
Oh well, guess I'll go with the "lets shoot our way in guys," plan the other people suggested.
Can't forget the ones that say "Oh, well you CAN'T roll your skill, you have to always 'play it out'. You're not a professional politician IRL? Well, tough. 'Play it out'.". Those are the ones that annoy the crap outta me.
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Can't forget the ones that say "Oh, well you CAN'T roll your skill, you have to always 'play it out'. You're not a professional politician IRL? Well, tough. 'Play it out'.". Those are the ones that annoy the crap outta me.
Hell, that annoys me as a GM! I like to encourage my players to play it out, but they're not actors and some of them are really bad at improvising. If playing it out isn't going well, I'll just get them to roll of the dice. On the other hand, if they play it out well enough, I won't bother making them roll a success test. It all depends on the players and what they're happy with (and with what moves the plot forward).
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You're not a professional politician IRL?
Wait....you're not?
Vote for me!
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Can't forget the ones that say "Oh, well you CAN'T roll your skill, you have to always 'play it out'. You're not a professional politician IRL? Well, tough. 'Play it out'.". Those are the ones that annoy the crap outta me.
Hell, that annoys me as a GM! I like to encourage my players to play it out, but they're not actors and some of them are really bad at improvising. If playing it out isn't going well, I'll just get them to roll of the dice. On the other hand, if they play it out well enough, I won't bother making them roll a success test. It all depends on the players and what they're happy with (and with what moves the plot forward).
I tend to work it like this:
1) Player states what he wants to to do and starts outlining questions and other interactions.
2) Player rolls appropriate pornomancy pool.
3) NPC rolls to defend.
4) Player gets results of their outline, modified modified by the results of the roll.
After all, the Street Sam doesn't need to know how to shoot in the real world, does he? The Hacker doesn't need to be a real-world computer genius. So why should the Face have to be a real-world social engineer?
The caveat, of course, is that if you ask the wrong questions you'll get nowhere, even with all the Net Hits in the world.
That means that, for example, "I ask him where I can find Tony" with 7 net-hits on a Con roll indicates you sidle up to the guy at the bar and start buying him drinks, getting chummy, and eventually convince him you were friends in high-school, then casually mention you haven't seen Tony in a while. Not only do you find out where Tony is... if he knows... but either way, you'll get the guy you conned as a Loyalty 2 contact until/unless you do something to blow your cover.
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Can't forget the ones that say "Oh, well you CAN'T roll your skill, you have to always 'play it out'. You're not a professional politician IRL? Well, tough. 'Play it out'.". Those are the ones that annoy the crap outta me.
Hell, that annoys me as a GM! I like to encourage my players to play it out, but they're not actors and some of them are really bad at improvising. If playing it out isn't going well, I'll just get them to roll of the dice. On the other hand, if they play it out well enough, I won't bother making them roll a success test. It all depends on the players and what they're happy with (and with what moves the plot forward).
I tend to work it like this:
1) Player states what he wants to to do and starts outlining questions and other interactions.
2) Player rolls appropriate pornomancy pool.
3) NPC rolls to defend.
4) Player gets results of their outline, modified modified by the results of the roll.
After all, the Street Sam doesn't need to know how to shoot in the real world, does he? The Hacker doesn't need to be a real-world computer genius. So why should the Face have to be a real-world social engineer?
The caveat, of course, is that if you ask the wrong questions you'll get nowhere, even with all the Net Hits in the world.
That means that, for example, "I ask him where I can find Tony" with 7 net-hits on a Con roll indicates you sidle up to the guy at the bar and start buying him drinks, getting chummy, and eventually convince him you were friends in high-school, then casually mention you haven't seen Tony in a while. Not only do you find out where Tony is... if he knows... but either way, you'll get the guy you conned as a Loyalty 2 contact until/unless you do something to blow your cover.
I still say that the "if you ask the wrong questions" part should be removed from the equation. You can't expect players to know exactly what to ask, when to ask or whatever (that's part of being a social engineer).
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I still say that the "if you ask the wrong questions" part should be removed from the equation. You can't expect players to know exactly what to ask, when to ask or whatever (that's part of being a social engineer).
A4BG... dude... I'm not going to have a player walk up to a guy and find out everything he knows. They have to pick what topic they want to ask about.
I don't have strict standards, but if you don't bring up Big Jimmy up to the guy you just asked about Tony, then you're not gonna be finding anything out about Big Jimmy.
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I still say that the "if you ask the wrong questions" part should be removed from the equation. You can't expect players to know exactly what to ask, when to ask or whatever (that's part of being a social engineer).
So, if your Sam starts gunning down baddies, does he automatically target the most important ones when he rolls, or does he have to choose his targets?
Do your characters have to plan out their tactics and approach to get into a facility, or do they just roll infiltration/hardware and magically they're in the best/easiest way?
If players bother to pay attention, they know exactly what they're looking for and should be asking.
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I still say that the "if you ask the wrong questions" part should be removed from the equation. You can't expect players to know exactly what to ask, when to ask or whatever (that's part of being a social engineer).
So, if your Sam starts gunning down baddies, does he automatically target the most important ones when he rolls, or does he have to choose his targets?
Do your characters have to plan out their tactics and approach to get into a facility, or do they just roll infiltration/hardware and magically they're in the best/easiest way?
If players bother to pay attention, they know exactly what they're looking for and should be asking.
I still say that the "if you ask the wrong questions" part should be removed from the equation. You can't expect players to know exactly what to ask, when to ask or whatever (that's part of being a social engineer).
A4BG... dude... I'm not going to have a player walk up to a guy and find out everything he knows. They have to pick what topic they want to ask about.
I don't have strict standards, but if you don't bring up Big Jimmy up to the guy you just asked about Tony, then you're not gonna be finding anything out about Big Jimmy.
All I'm saying is do not punish a player who isn't good at social interaction (and yes not being able to think of EVERY "right" question is a part of that) for not being good at it. How much one "pays attention" does not really come into play that much in that.
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I still say that the "if you ask the wrong questions" part should be removed from the equation. You can't expect players to know exactly what to ask, when to ask or whatever (that's part of being a social engineer).
So, if your Sam starts gunning down baddies, does he automatically target the most important ones when he rolls, or does he have to choose his targets?
Do your characters have to plan out their tactics and approach to get into a facility, or do they just roll infiltration/hardware and magically they're in the best/easiest way?
If players bother to pay attention, they know exactly what they're looking for and should be asking.
I still say that the "if you ask the wrong questions" part should be removed from the equation. You can't expect players to know exactly what to ask, when to ask or whatever (that's part of being a social engineer).
A4BG... dude... I'm not going to have a player walk up to a guy and find out everything he knows. They have to pick what topic they want to ask about.
I don't have strict standards, but if you don't bring up Big Jimmy up to the guy you just asked about Tony, then you're not gonna be finding anything out about Big Jimmy.
All I'm saying is do not punish a player who isn't good at social interaction (and yes not being able to think of EVERY "right" question is a part of that) for not being good at it. How much one "pays attention" does not really come into play that much in that.
While I mostly agree with JustADude, I think you're right to an extent. If my players are *almost* figuring something out but not quite getting there, I'll throw them some extra hints/clues. Very rarely will I give them the answer outright, though.
Generally, though, if they don't ask the right questions or make the right decisions, tough. I'm not going to coddle them.
Just the other day they almost walked away from a run halfway through because they thought that the trid they found of Mr. Johnson saying that he no longer needed their assistance was completely above board. In fact, he was forced to record the video (and there were hints pointing to this in the recording). One of my players realized this just as the rest were about to walk away saying, "The job's done, we're not getting the other half of our pay because he changed his mind." If they hadn't realized it and gone on to do the necessary legwork to spring Mr. J, I'd have been a bit disappointed that my adventure didn't get played through, but I'd have let them walkaway from the rest of their paycheque. That said, I might later tell them about their mistake so that they think twice if something similar happens in a future run.
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Just the other day they almost walked away from a run halfway through because they thought that the trid they found of Mr. Johnson saying that he no longer needed their assistance was completely above board. In fact, he was forced to record the video (and there were hints pointing to this in the recording). One of my players realized this just as the rest were about to walk away saying, "The job's done, we're not getting the other half of our pay because he changed his mind." If they hadn't realized it and gone on to do the necessary legwork to spring Mr. J, I'd have been a bit disappointed that my adventure didn't get played through, but I'd have let them walkaway from the rest of their paycheque. That said, I might later tell them about their mistake so that they think twice if something similar happens in a future run.
This is an entirely different scenario. Missing clues in a scene is one thing, and it's fine not to hand the information over in this situation, but when doing legwork, negotiations or whatever using social skills PART OF THE SKILL TEST IS ASKING THE NECESSARY QUESTIONS. This means, that the CHARACTER knows what questions to ask even if the PLAYER doesn't. Refusing to give the information that should be garnered because the PLAYER "didn't ask the right questions" is silly when the CHARACTER by virtue of succeeding the skill test knew what to ask.
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Just the other day they almost walked away from a run halfway through because they thought that the trid they found of Mr. Johnson saying that he no longer needed their assistance was completely above board. In fact, he was forced to record the video (and there were hints pointing to this in the recording). One of my players realized this just as the rest were about to walk away saying, "The job's done, we're not getting the other half of our pay because he changed his mind." If they hadn't realized it and gone on to do the necessary legwork to spring Mr. J, I'd have been a bit disappointed that my adventure didn't get played through, but I'd have let them walkaway from the rest of their paycheque. That said, I might later tell them about their mistake so that they think twice if something similar happens in a future run.
This is an entirely different scenario. Missing clues in a scene is one thing, and it's fine not to hand the information over in this situation, but when doing legwork, negotiations or whatever using social skills PART OF THE SKILL TEST IS ASKING THE NECESSARY QUESTIONS. This means, that the CHARACTER knows what questions to ask even if the PLAYER doesn't. Refusing to give the information that should be garnered because the PLAYER "didn't ask the right questions" is silly when the CHARACTER by virtue of succeeding the skill test knew what to ask.
Dude... seriously... if the player can't even figure out what "TOPIC" he wants to fish for information on, then he has no business playing a Face.
That's like a Street Samurai not knowing he can't shoot a Shotgun with the Automatics skill.
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Dude... seriously... if the player can't even figure out what "TOPIC" he wants to fish for information on, then he has no business playing a Face.
Talk about over exaggeration, and a ridiculous statement of telling people to force their players not to make the character they want just because of their own shortcomings IRL. Real smooth...
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Dude, All4, I will PayPal each of you $3 to go buy a novella and read it, if it means you'll both just take a day or two off of sniping at each other on the forums, in like every other thread. For realsies.
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ˆ It is getting slightly repetative.
Maybe we should stop derailing this thread and instead of scaring away the OP with bickering, work on the roleplaying-heavy adventuring recommendations.
Sadly, I don't really have much to offer here. I try to keep myself from reading the pre-made adventures in the hopes of ever getting a chance to play them.
That said, from the ones I have read/played, it isn't that much work for a GM to turn encounters with an often violent solution into roleplaying situations... In fact in most cases, the violence IS caused by roleplaying.
Example: Your team gets stuck in traffic. A black car pulls up next to you and 5 chinese guys, obviously Triads, step out and approach your vehicle. As they do, another black car pulls up and 5 Jakuza jump out of it. Both groups are obviously after your package and obviously not pleased to see another interested party.
Whether this becomes violent or not (and if it becomes violent, whether the PC's will be involved in the fighting or whether the Yaks and the Triads fight eachother and the PC's get away in the meanwhile) is entirely up to the PC's. A group composed of trigger-happy streetsams and racist martial adepts will deal with it entirely differently than a team which realizes they can be played out against eachother and that noone wants to start a gunfight while stuck in traffic during rushhour.
And IF the GM knows the PC's don't really want to deal with the hassle of combat but for some reason won't be able to avoid this from becoming ugly, a police rotodrone flying closely overhead to monitor traffic (or even advising everyone to get back in their vehicles ) should provide enough discouragement for the other parties to draw their weapons unless the players decide to attack.
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Dude, All4, I will PayPal each of you $3 to go buy a novella and read it, if it means you'll both just take a day or two off of sniping at each other on the forums, in like every other thread. For realsies.
If you send me $6.00, I'll quit posting for a week. Send me a copy of Neat and I'll personally troll them both for you.
Kat9, internet racketeering at its best.
ANYHOW, that joke aside, I'll both get serious and get on topic.
Last Wednesday we were sent on a run.
A Johnson that owned a ranch that mid-level corporates were sent to relax had an extraction happen on his property. A ransom note was sent and he wanted this handled quietly and off the books. Enter <Team Name to be Determined™>. We investigated the guy's room, found a few clues and hit the legwork. We discovered that he had mob connections and one of the clues lead to a runner team (daamn yooouuu Signature negative qualityyyyyyy). So our team split into pairs. Street Sam and Shaman/Face went to talk to the mob Sniper and Face went to try to track down the runner team.
The Sam and Shaman got the information that the extraction target has been working with the mob letting them test out experimental arms and armor and thus giving them an advantage over their rivals. They had nothing to do with the guy's kidnapping and would be very interested in seeing him returned safe and sound. Job well done for team A. Shaman handled the talking, Street Sam's 'quirks' didn't cause any trouble.
On to the B team. The runner team that extracted the target was an all Amerind team and they were known to be seen in a bar the Souix sector. The two rolled into the bar and you could almost hear the classic record scratch sound as they were the only non-Natives in a anti-anglo biased bar. All eyes were on them, and the tension could be cut with a knife. However the sniper ever the cool hand wasn't phased by the hostility and the Face didn't really notice. She went to the bartender and despite the hefty odds against her managed to make a meeting with the runner team. Good job B Team!
The two teams met up where they were supposed to meet the representative for the runner team. When the representative arrived, she didn't even bother speaking English she was so hostile. However, the Shaman being a Amerind managed to calm things down. Turns out that they were not involved in a kidnapping, the guy's company wanted him held to test his loyalty. At midnight he'd be set free.
The team waited and went to do a pickup at the Coffin Hotel/U-Stor-It the guy was held in. Upon entering the area the manager wanted to extract a 500 nuyen EACH bribe from the runners to prevent damages on the property. The Street Sam sort of bubbled over with the idea if she was going to be charged 500 nuyen she felt obligated to do some damage. The none too subtle implication would have been she'd start with the manager's knees and move on to structure once that was done. He waved the bribe and let the runners pass, knees intact, trousers not so much.
A tense meeting with the team that performed the extraction, the players all running on wired time a fight could break out with just the wrong twitch. Tension broke when the Sam asked the target, "So you want to ride in the car, or be my bitch," as she was riding a motorcycle and thought the target was 'kinda cute'.
And thus an entire run was done without a single shot fired, grenade thrown or anyone beat with a baseball bat. However at several points it had the option of going the other way. The Sam could have offended a mobster and gotten into a brawl at a mob owned club. The non-anglos could have sparked a fight with a group of Wildcats. The opposing team's hostility and initial refusal to speak in English could have turned into a fight. Could have been a beating in the U-Store-It, or even a straight out two way fight between two runner teams.
In closing, its all on how you and your players handle a session..
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^ That was a pre-written adventure, by the way. (My example was part of one too. Both Season 2 if I'm not mistaken...)
Maybe should've used spoilers tags, but this is GM lounge board and neither example really spoils the adventure.
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Yup and Spoilers added.
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Rofl, nicely done but like I said, I don't think it's really necessary.
But in the future (or now if you're doing it 'cuz you think it's a real spoiler) you might want to mention that in the post with something like
"Warning: If you're interested in ever playing XXX, don't open the spoiler!"
otherwise it'll not be very effective :p