Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: Ethan on <11-13-12/1430:06>
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Blame a lack of sleep, leftovers, and boredom.
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THE FORCE
The Path of the Jedi
"The Force is what gives a Jedi his power. It's an energy field created by all living things. It surrounds us and penetrates us. It binds the galaxy together."
Combat: Guardian
Detection: Guidance
Health: Water
Illusion: Air
Manipulation: Man
Drain: Intuition + Willpower
The Path of the Jedi is a Possession tradition
Inspired by a 20th century "movie" trilogy, the Force is an unconventional tradition in that its followers know full well it is made-up; yet thanks to the reality of the Sixth World it is also quite real. The phenomenon has lasted a century, remarkable considering that there have only ever been three movies and a series of "TV shows" and books. There are literally millions of people in the Sixth World who call themselves Jedi, yet only a small fraction have any real power.
The Jedi Temple was completed in Washington in the 2050s, pieced together from concept art from the previous millenium. It's a major tourist spot and its adherents operate many of the free clinics and food houses in the nearby slums. Following the Universal Brotherhood events, the Jedi were systematically rounded up and examined. Some were even killed, forcing many into hiding until being eventually cleared by the FBI and Ares. The Temple is still in use, though the Jedi are far less visibly active than before.
Awakened Jedi are rare and exhibit quirks that set them apart. They call the manasphere and mana the "Force" and all are in great physical shape. They focus mostly on Manipulation and Health spells and train with swords. And of course, all Jedi summon Spirits and are possessed by them which certainly didn't help their image during the Insect Spirit scare of the 2050s.
To the Jedi, however, these spirits are not sapient creatures with their own personalities. Rather, they are the manifestations of the Force. They "let the Force flow through" them, surrendering their conscious physical will to direct their enhanced bodies in accordance to the almost sentient Force.
Seemingly scrawny padawans (apprentices or initiates with the Talent) can rival an Ork or Troll in physical strength and resilience because of this. Great emphasis is placed on control, and all Knights and Masters develop the Channelling metamagic. In fact, it's part and parcel of their initiation into Knighthood.
They are, of course, dismissed by academics worldwide. Their worldview is such that most, if not all, Jedi are inept at Banishment.
They believe in living simply, unconditional love, and pursuing justice. And the greatest injustice in the world are the corporations. More and more Jedi are stepping into the shadows to wage a personal war against corporate influence. Padawans have even reached as far as the Seattle and Hong Kong shadows, earning reputations as competent warriors but "half-magicians" and far too principled to stay in the shadows for long. Those that stay invariably follow a selfish path, and are as dangerous as the Jedi are benevolent.
What truly sets them apart are their "lightsabers". Hermetic magicians describe it as nothing but a Possession Spirit's Elemental Attack power, centred on a weapon focus. Jedi only draw these weapons as a last resort, preferring stealth or non-lethal weapons to solve violent situations. But they train themselves religiously and are quite potent warriors.
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Strictly from a mechnical perspective, I think it would make more sense to simply apply one other Mental Attribute to add to Willpower for the roll, Intuition imo.
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Maybe work in the "Code" a little bit more ( http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Jedi_Code ), the fact that there are always 2 sith (which are basically jedi but follow a slightly different path maybe different spirits) but thats fluff.
Mechanics wise I'ld to go for a single Attribute for Drain too because you are kinda making drain harder for all the Jedi this way. (Where you had to raise 2 Attributes you have to raise 4 now.)
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My bad, fellas. This was written a while back and I forgot all about that. Better perhaps to just go with Intuition then. I wrote the Sith part as well, Charisma as the drain attribute for that one.
What do you think of the concept itself? Does it explain all the Jedi's heightened powers, bringing him to superhuman levels?
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Possession spirits seem like a really bad fit for The Force. Why not an Adept with body-enhancing powers and Commanding Voice?
If spells are absolutely required: Mystical Adept. But self-possession? Nah.
Especially because spirits -do- have personalities, and when they're being possessed the "jedi"'s training with swords and whatever doesn't matter, because it's the spirit in control. I really can't see it being a good fit at all, in any way.
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Lightning, pull and push objects, or just lift them with the mind...
This is no feat aquired with adept powers alone.
You could of course go mystic adept...
If I really wanted to have a Jedi as houserules I'ld maybe go for a custom mystic adept tradition with a limited set of possible spells.
I would go for a standard tradition and can't quite see why you chose the possession angle...
On the other hand spells and powers as they currently exist won'T reflect force jumps and the like imho.
You maybe need to boost rgeat leap for adepts to reflect it better...
My conclusion if you wanna go houserule, maybe go for a mystic adept work in the aspected negative quality limited spells and powers but maybe new and/or boosted efficiency in those...
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According to some fluff, only certain spirits like to possess hosts and those that do, are not exactly 'nice, warm, and fuzzy' spirits. And forcing spirits to do things they don't like repeatedly can cause issues (again, fluff wise).
Gotta say, when I think Jedi, I think physical adept or mystic adept (with limitations)
When I think Sith I think Mages and mystic adepts...
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According to some fluff, only certain spirits like to possess hosts and those that do, are not exactly 'nice, warm, and fuzzy' spirits. And forcing spirits to do things they don't like repeatedly can cause issues (again, fluff wise).
Gotta say, when I think Jedi, I think physical adept or mystic adept (with limitations)
When I think Sith I think Mages and mystic adepts...
Yeah, exactly. In the possession I'm playing, they're demons. I think a Christian-based possession tradition could also be cool, with an angel using your body and stuff, but those would definitely not "have no personaltiy", and would probably object quite badly to a lot of things.
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(http://gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs3/1186474_o.gif)
Use the Force Kane!
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Especially because spirits -do- have personalities, and when they're being possessed the "jedi"'s training with swords and whatever doesn't matter, because it's the spirit in control. I really can't see it being a good fit at all, in any way.
I can see it working, as long as you're not summoning incredibly powerful spirits - I couldn't find a specific page number, but I remember fluff in multiple books stating that magic happened to work the way we expect it to even if that might not make logical sense on longer inspection - I'm pretty sure the University of Prague was mentioned testing people using shamanic traditions even when they didn't believe in the underlying religious system that real-world shamanism is based on. Yes, it's stretching the fluff, but so is throwing Jedi into Shadowrun. Then again, I can imagine that there are still obsessive fans in Shadowrun, so who's to say some might not be awakened?
As far as the mechanics, throwing bonus agility would do more than throwing out a new Adept tradition that only discounts Great Leap. That being said, I want to say 2 things: 1) I find the idea of a Jedi Tradition very amusing, and 2) I do agree with Reaver. Both Sith and Jedi never really summon independent things out of the Force, so it might make more sense to interpret them as aspected magicians or mystic adepts who don't actually use Conjuring.
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I thin we're stuck with possession vs no possession and would advise a totally different approach:
The force is no Magical Tradition but a set of magical traditions with specific rules (like possession or toxic traditions):
It'ld allow to make unique rules how force spirits were handled and it would make room for more actuaal traditions (which do exist ins starwars) like:
Jedi, Sith, Witches, ...
Something along the lines of:
Force traditions only ever have guidance spirits, which are spirits of man (former force users who died and tranlsated onto the force plane).
Spirits are typically only summoned as advisors and/or mentors. They can't materialize.
I addition to that Force users can summon the force directly to increase their physical and mental prowess.
This works like a traditional conjuring, but no spirit is conjured instead the conjurer is gifted with net hits bonus to his physical or mental attributes.
In further addition force users automatically gain attunement to lightsabers automatically, which works like attunement to item but works with every lightsaber.
This is just an Idea to help push it in the right direction, and definitely not elaborated well enough.
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Well, the way I envisioned it, to a Jedi he's not summoning a spirit to take control of him. Some nameless and faceless "Force" is empowering him and directing his actions. He's reaching into the manasphere and wrapping a concious part of that to itself.
A limitation to this could be: Can only summon Guardian and/or Guidance Spirits and will immediately try to possess the caster.
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Problem is as soon as the Character is possessed, the Character himself has no control anymore...
He'ld need channeling for that...
So why not create it's own mechanic that get's rid of all the problems you would have otherwise?
Make it work like possession on himself but more directly and get's rid of all the problems.
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Seems like a bit much of a hassle for something that would already function quite adequately as a mystic adept, though...
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Well, the way I envisioned it, to a Jedi he's not summoning a spirit to take control of him. Some nameless and faceless "Force" is empowering him and directing his actions. He's reaching into the manasphere and wrapping a concious part of that to itself.
A limitation to this could be: Can only summon Guardian and/or Guidance Spirits and will immediately try to possess the caster.
just be careful, even Guardian and guidance spirits are not all "warm and fuzzy"..
a guardian spirit of a bar, in the middle of the Redmond barrens where poeple whoa re addicts and junkies hang out, and the usual entertainment runs along the lines of betting on who is going to get stabbed first that night is NOT going to have a great disposition when summoned. In fact he/she/it is more of less going to be a "bash heads till they pop like rotten grapefuits".. not exactly a combat tactic for a Jedi (sith, sure!)
what you're describing sounds alot like 'combat sense' (both the adept power adn the spell), or 'enhance physical attribute' adept power, spell.
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Problem is as soon as the Character is possessed, the Character himself has no control anymore...
He'ld need channeling for that...
So why not create it's own mechanic that get's rid of all the problems you would have otherwise?
Make it work like possession on himself but more directly and get's rid of all the problems.
Yep, which was a deliberate choice. I was thinking along the lines of "let the force flow through you" and submitting to it but guiding as well. I thought the Possession mechanic was a good translation of that relationship--more mature members, the Knights and Masters, all would have Channelling (as said in the OP).
Do all Spirits act the same way regardless of their tradition? I thought that the summoner's tradition was the lens with which all their spirits were summoned?
Much like Psionists, though they consider spirits to be mental constructs there is room for benign possessors.
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There are central rules. For instance, all spirits dislike being summoned, and especially bound. They are not, in essence, your best buddies and great pals. What you describe as "letting the force flow through you" would, as a possession mechanic, be grabbing the force by the balls, smacking it in the face and then forcing it to obey.
Adept powers/spells do not have any kind of personality or behavorial codes, though. An adept power can be easily explained as the "force flowing through you', as can a spell.
I'm afraid I just have to ask: Are you trying to find the right fit for this tradition, or are you starting from a mechanical position you want to achieve (this being: the use of possession spirits, which does make for a powerful boost to stats) and then trying to wrestle with the fluff until you arrive at something passable? I'm havign the feeling it's the second, and if so, just make a possession mage and forget about the jedi fluff for now, imo.
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<snip>
Do all Spirits act the same way regardless of their tradition? I thought that the summoner's tradition was the lens with which all their spirits were summoned?
Much like Psionists, though they consider spirits to be mental constructs there is room for benign possessors.
Spirits are affected by a host of things, not just the summoner's perceptions (but that is a factor as well) tradition, environment, history of the summoner, and of course the spirits own attitudes/attributes all play a role in it's personality matrix.
If we look at two textbook traditions (Mage and shaman) and look at how they interact with spirits it gets interesting (and murky!)
Mage's are usually very text book and acedemic in the way they view magic. When they summon a spirit, the spirit is usually 'flat' in it's personality, but it still has a personality! it is believed that this is caused by the Mage's desire and will to see magic in a forumlialic view point.
A Shaman, who usually has a very flowing, interactivity view to magic (it is all around us, part of us, in us, through us, hippie flower-power type views) summon spirits with very viberant personalities. Again this is believed to be because of the shamans view that magic is a living thing....
Now, you have to look at the environment that the spirit is being summoned into... areas that are filled with negative emotions, toxic substances, and other pollutants are generally more hostile, and 'angry' then ones summoned in happy-go-lucky places, or natural, clean surroundings. it is believed this is caused by the fact that the summoner is pulling them from the 'astral' (or where ever the spirit was) and forcing it to inhabit the polluted environment.
Lastly, spirits are actual beings... they may (or may not) be life forms as we understand them but they express all the characteristics of a sapient.... including some very distrubing qualities! by this I mean, they instinctivly know who has summoned it, even is a room of mages. They seem to know the history of the summoning mage in regards to spirits (has he used them as astral traget bombs? abused them? sent them to be destroyed?) and seem to have their own wants, desires, objectives, views, and knowledge! spirits at times have shown knowledge of subjects that they shouldn't know about, and also the inverse of that. Some spirits have been extremely hostile when summoned, others extremely helpful. Some spirits will obey they LETTER of the command, but not the intention. Others will obey the intention of a command, if not the letter....
However, what is NOT known about spirits is more then IS known... Is there only a handful of spirits? Or are their endless amounts? Is a mage summoning the same spirit over and over again, just 'wrapped' differently everytime (IE: is that guardian, fire elemental, and water spirit in actuality the SAME spirit, just repuposed by the will of the mage?)
also, the more powerful the spirit (force) the more personality it has! so while a force 2 Guardian spirit may seem like an automiton, a force 10 guardian spirit is a whole different animal! Not to mention smarter, stronger, and more willful then it's summoner (so BEWARE!!!)
Spirits are powerful, and mysterious beings that possess GREAT powers and abilities. Only fools and madmen make light of spirits and what they can do, what they are, or that they are in 'control' of a spirit at all times. There are all sorts of fluff out there of rampaging spirits that have broken free of summoners to run amok on the world (and the mage!!), or of mages who thought they had a spirit under control, only to find out at a very inoportune time that that wasn't the case... or that what they meant with a command and what the spirit interprets are two vastly different things!!!
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There are central rules. For instance, all spirits dislike being summoned, and especially bound. They are not, in essence, your best buddies and great pals. What you describe as "letting the force flow through you" would, as a possession mechanic, be grabbing the force by the balls, smacking it in the face and then forcing it to obey.
Adept powers/spells do not have any kind of personality or behavorial codes, though. An adept power can be easily explained as the "force flowing through you', as can a spell.
I'm afraid I just have to ask: Are you trying to find the right fit for this tradition, or are you starting from a mechanical position you want to achieve (this being: the use of possession spirits, which does make for a powerful boost to stats) and then trying to wrestle with the fluff until you arrive at something passable? I'm havign the feeling it's the second, and if so, just make a possession mage and forget about the jedi fluff for now, imo.
Actually it's just a thought experiment. Not really making a Jedi from this tradition, just posted this for comments/discussion.
For instance, I now understand Spirits a bit better. I always understood them to be... as sapient and sentient as their summoner's tradition allows.
Great post, Reaver.
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I like the idea, but I think fluff wise, a possession mage is a bit of a reach. But, it would be awesome if you made a mystic adept and custom "Light Side" and "Dark Side" mentor spirits...That would help the fluff side if the "Force" acts like a totem/mentor spirit.
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Jar-Jar and Mickey as mentor spirits, brilliant!
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Jar-Jar and Mickey as mentor spirits, brilliant!
"oh great and powerful lord of Sith, what is your will, my master?"
"Mees'a thinks dat da Jedis needs'a lesson in greeeeaaat hummilidies. Goes'a kill der masta"
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"Tell me master, what insights has the Force given you?"
"Oh, Boy! I sense a great disturbance in the Force. That's all folks! Ha-Haa!!"