Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: CosbyPro on <11-22-12/0030:16>
-
In my various internet shadowrun browsings, I have heard mention that shotguns are not actually that good. I was wondering if anyone could enlighten me as to their pros and cons.
-
With buckshot/flechette ammo, not that great against most targets (because armor is so very very common). With slugs, they can be a scary in-close option for someone who's relying on a single firearm skill (instead of having Pistols or Automatics or what-have-you, like a dedicated sniper-type). They're a classic on the streets for intimidation value and relative bang-for-the-buck, availability on many is low, so they're often easy to get ahold of (or to toss after a gig if the heat is on). Their base damage code is pretty solid, and they're good for what they're used for IRL (blasting single targets during close-in firefights, like roomsweeping).
Mechanically, there's all sorts of number-crunching out there about how full-auto bursts are scarier, range brackets can make bigger guns more attractive, there's a lack of accessories for them, and on and on and on. And that's all valid, depending on the game, the power level, and the character.
But I still dig 'em, and for the right character they can just "fit" better than some hardcore mil-spec stuff.
-
Pretty much what Critias said.
Besides, it's not like you can't buy an Auto Assault 16, or mod one of the burst fire shotguns should you absolutely want to pepper the room with terror. And why the hell wouldn't you want to?
As for range... a lot of shadowruns happen in very close-in environments. Not sure it's that big an issue. And if things are really wide open, the fact you can pick up a sniper rifle just as easily isn't too shabby.
-
Damage wise, full autoshotguns are great at clearing corridors quickly if messily.
Rulewise, too bloody complicated. Maybe if someone in my games used then regularly, but for ocassional use, slows the game down while we try and work it out.
-
well they are ok, i'd def use one if i had a dedicated sharpshooter who needed a backup weapon, but i wouldnt choose longarms over automatics.
the ability to walk around with an AR on FA with so much recoil comp it barely twitches just means that shotty's dont compare. i think its probably more a reflection of how good the automatics group is than how bad the longarms group is tbh!
-
well they are ok, i'd def use one if i had a dedicated sharpshooter who needed a backup weapon, but i wouldnt choose longarms over automatics.
the ability to walk around with an AR on FA with so much recoil comp it barely twitches just means that shotty's dont compare. i think its probably more a reflection of how good the automatics group is than how bad the longarms group is tbh!
Except Longarms has the Barrette M-121. Load that thing up with APDS or Anti-Tank ammo and you've got yourself a big ol' "F* You" to whatever's on the other end of your shot. With a dedicated sharp-shooter using it, we're talking nearly guaranteed one-hit-kills against anything short of a Main Battle Troll, even through a brick wall.
That gun is worth it, all by itself, and the shotguns are simply a useful backup for situations where you can't hang back and snipe.
-
well they are ok, i'd def use one if i had a dedicated sharpshooter who needed a backup weapon, but i wouldnt choose longarms over automatics.
the ability to walk around with an AR on FA with so much recoil comp it barely twitches just means that shotty's dont compare. i think its probably more a reflection of how good the automatics group is than how bad the longarms group is tbh!
Except Longarms has the Barrette M-121. Load that thing up with APDS or Anti-Tank ammo and you've got yourself a big ol' "F* You" to whatever's on the other end of your shot. With a dedicated sharp-shooter using it, we're talking nearly guaranteed one-hit-kills against anything short of a Main Battle Troll, even through a brick wall.
That gun is worth it, all by itself, and the shotguns are simply a useful backup for situations where you can't hang back and snipe.
totally, its a great gun. its no good for a combat street sam mind :-) and iirc, you need to take restricted gear to get one @ chargen which makes it an expensive option. if i had longarms, then i'd totally use a shotty, but i wouldnt take longarms just on the basis of using shottys.
i have to say, i like the auto assualt and things like that, but i would normally go to an FA rifle with R/C due to range, R/C, sound suppresion etc. pump action shotguns are just so badass though, i could see it being a good gun for a custom look 2 mod for intimidation :-)
-
A full auto shotgun modded with high velocity is capable of shredding hordes of unarmoured foes like nothing else in the game:
Full auto splitting fire into 4 long bursts, with wide choke. that's 12 targets in one complex action, though they do need to be closely grouped. Still, when ghouls are rushing through a chokepoint then accept no substitutes.
Just remember to either pack a tripod or a gyromount, depending on budget.
-
A full auto shotgun modded with high velocity is capable of shredding hordes of unarmoured foes like nothing else in the game:
Full auto splitting fire into 4 long bursts, with wide choke. that's 12 targets in one complex action, though they do need to be closely grouped. Still, when ghouls are rushing through a chokepoint then accept no substitutes.
Just remember to either pack a tripod or a gyromount, depending on budget.
What about a gren launcher? 2 grens in a chokepoint will chunky salsa anything as well.
-
A full auto shotgun modded with high velocity is capable of shredding hordes of unarmoured foes like nothing else in the game:
Full auto splitting fire into 4 long bursts, with wide choke. that's 12 targets in one complex action, though they do need to be closely grouped. Still, when ghouls are rushing through a chokepoint then accept no substitutes.
Just remember to either pack a tripod or a gyromount, depending on budget.
What about a gren launcher? 2 grens in a chokepoint will chunky salsa anything as well.
that should work. not exactly a shotgun though eh? :-)
-
A full auto shotgun modded with high velocity is capable of shredding hordes of unarmoured foes like nothing else in the game:
Full auto splitting fire into 4 long bursts, with wide choke. that's 12 targets in one complex action, though they do need to be closely grouped. Still, when ghouls are rushing through a chokepoint then accept no substitutes.
Just remember to either pack a tripod or a gyromount, depending on budget.
What about a gren launcher? 2 grens in a chokepoint will chunky salsa anything as well.
Meh, not as cool as a full auto shotgun spitting hundreds of ball bearings in a cone of indiscriminate death... particularly as it's not actually that indiscriminate. if you have an ally in the mix then the shotgun won't chunky salsa him like the grenades would.
Anyway, why only two grenades? you can mod a GL for full auto as well...
-
By the way, regarding shotgun spread... what would a barrel extension do to it?
-
Why shotguns? They're nice for a breaching role (Shock Lock rounds), and for me personally they're the only gun class I will load SnS into. And yes, I include the thee pistols that can fire shotgun rounds in that list.
-
In our games they're the only guns you're -allowed- to load SnS in.
-
By the way, regarding shotgun spread... what would a barrel extension do to it?
it would just extend the range of the rounds, so the spread would happen 10% further from the tip of the barrel, meaning it would be narrower cone (more accurate) of shot for slightly longer.
-
Shotguns have one major advantage. (http://youtu.be/k80j4_hwU6E) ;D
Suppression Fire!
-
I did not expect this many responses! Thanks for the advice, it will be used well.
-
well they are ok, i'd def use one if i had a dedicated sharpshooter who needed a backup weapon, but i wouldnt choose longarms over automatics.
the ability to walk around with an AR on FA with so much recoil comp it barely twitches just means that shotty's dont compare. i think its probably more a reflection of how good the automatics group is than how bad the longarms group is tbh!
I might have missed something, but the only recoil comp the shotgun can't get (insofar as I can see) is the Gas Vent. If you're throwing everything at it, and using the STR on recoil rule, then it looks to me like you should be able to get 4/5 on every shot (am eyeballing it here), which should be enough for a mostly accurate Long Burst/Short Burst everytime you act. Obviously a disadvantage if you want to go Full Auto, but I think you're better off splitting anyway.
Am I missing something here?
-
I often get a shotgun as heavy weapon for non-combat characters (longarms 1 with shotgun specialisation and you're not that bad with them for only 6BP). It's easier to get, isn't as suspicious as automatic riffles, and I've never had the short range being an issue (in fact, for long range combat we mostly use the spirits the mage summons).
I mostly take the Enfield AS-7 with the 24 bullet drum and the following mods: Folding Stock (Powered), Foregrip, Personalized Grip, Smartgun System, Sling. Makes it a very good weapon for short range combat for the non-combat specialist. With the drum, the foregrip and the stock extended I feel it looks a bit like a heavy duty tommy gun, which is good enough just for coolness factor.
-
Shotguns (and Longarms) are a viable choice. They're not as easily concealed as other varieties, but they can get the job done.
Plus it gives you the ability to cover both long and short ranges (Longarms that is). And quite cheaply.
-
Another major advantage to shotguns is twofold.
One: They're smoothbores, so no rifling for ballistic traces.
Two: They're common hunting weapons, especially the non-automatic versions. Just have a box of buckshot or even slugs with the (unloaded) shotgun and if the Po-Po pull you over, "Just heading out New Boar hunting, officer. I got my Visa and Hunting License to the NAN right here." *Shows Fake Licenses* Make sure you keep the more exotic ammo (SnS and EX-Ex) hidden.
EDIT: I should have said "Non-Fully Automatic", most shotguns in Shadowrun are Semi-Automatics.
-
Land and groove markings are just one item for testing a ballistics match on a firearm. You can indeed match shotgun and shell and match lead compositions with brand, powder taggants and residue, plastic cup/wad residue all to a particular barrel.
Of course if you have the barrel, you likely have the rest of the gun and then the casing match can be made. Types of powders used will generally give you the brand name of a ammunition company. the wad will be present somewhere and the wad will give gauge, possibly company, and plastic composition.
Sorry CanRay, but shotguns can be linked to a crime.
-
well they are ok, i'd def use one if i had a dedicated sharpshooter who needed a backup weapon, but i wouldnt choose longarms over automatics.
the ability to walk around with an AR on FA with so much recoil comp it barely twitches just means that shotty's dont compare. i think its probably more a reflection of how good the automatics group is than how bad the longarms group is tbh!
I might have missed something, but the only recoil comp the shotgun can't get (insofar as I can see) is the Gas Vent. If you're throwing everything at it, and using the STR on recoil rule, then it looks to me like you should be able to get 4/5 on every shot (am eyeballing it here), which should be enough for a mostly accurate Long Burst/Short Burst everytime you act. Obviously a disadvantage if you want to go Full Auto, but I think you're better off splitting anyway.
Am I missing something here?
actually mate, you're right.
you could feasibly take a shock pad, foregrip, personalized grip and then probably mod in some other stuff like heavy barrel too. also can slap it on a gyro mount and you're good to go.
stuff like lack of suppressors/silencers is a shame though compared to AR.
actually, i'm getting pretty inspired to try them out again with a more optimised char
-
I often get a shotgun as heavy weapon for non-combat characters (longarms 1 with shotgun specialisation and you're not that bad with them for only 6BP). It's easier to get, isn't as suspicious as automatic riffles, and I've never had the short range being an issue (in fact, for long range combat we mostly use the spirits the mage summons).
I mostly take the Enfield AS-7 with the 24 bullet drum and the following mods: Folding Stock (Powered), Foregrip, Personalized Grip, Smartgun System, Sling. Makes it a very good weapon for short range combat for the non-combat specialist. With the drum, the foregrip and the stock extended I feel it looks a bit like a heavy duty tommy gun, which is good enough just for coolness factor.
I'd recommend the AA-16. Stock FA capability, 32 round drum, and it's the only shotgun with a Gas Vent system, which gives it +2 Recoil Compensation, and it only uses 10 rounds for Suppressive Fire when using flechette.
Plus, it's the grandchild of the AA-12 used in CanRay's link. ;D
Also, as always when the subject of flechettes comes up, I'll advise checking to see if your GM will let you replace regular Flechette ammo with AP-Flechette. Some GMs consider them the same thing when a weapon calls for flechettes, others get their knickers in a twist about the difference, so it's best to get that cleared up right away.
If your GM is cool with it, though, +0 AP vs +5 AP is so worth the -20% range... especially if you compensate for part of it with the Extended Barrel.
-
well they are ok, i'd def use one if i had a dedicated sharpshooter who needed a backup weapon, but i wouldnt choose longarms over automatics.
the ability to walk around with an AR on FA with so much recoil comp it barely twitches just means that shotty's dont compare. i think its probably more a reflection of how good the automatics group is than how bad the longarms group is tbh!
I might have missed something, but the only recoil comp the shotgun can't get (insofar as I can see) is the Gas Vent. If you're throwing everything at it, and using the STR on recoil rule, then it looks to me like you should be able to get 4/5 on every shot (am eyeballing it here), which should be enough for a mostly accurate Long Burst/Short Burst everytime you act. Obviously a disadvantage if you want to go Full Auto, but I think you're better off splitting anyway.
Am I missing something here?
actually mate, you're right.
you could feasibly take a shock pad, foregrip, personalized grip and then probably mod in some other stuff like heavy barrel too. also can slap it on a gyro mount and you're good to go.
stuff like lack of suppressors/silencers is a shame though compared to AR.
actually, i'm getting pretty inspired to try them out again with a more optimised char
I've asked that question time and again: can shotguns use suppressors/silencers?
It's not actually forbidden by the rules (I think). It's not exactly game-breaking either, compared to Automatics, so GMs allow it usually. Not clear though.
-
Ok I think I missed an Eratta but I thought at one point Shottties suffered double recoil penalties on uncompensated recoil? Or did I dream that? :-\
-
In my experience, there are two types of characters that are best served by shotguns: snipers and low IP characters. A sniper benefits from having a close quarters weapon that works off the same skill as their main weapon, and the low IP characters benefit from a shotgun's versatility. While shot rounds are not likely to do much damage, wide shot patterns in burst fire can really help you when your 1-2 IP character is faced with several nearby enemies. Add in shells being capable of doing pretty substantial damage, and specialty rounds such as shock lock and flare rounds, and you can see why it is an attractive choice for those types.
-
Ok I think I missed an Eratta but I thought at one point Shottties suffered double recoil penalties on uncompensated recoil? Or did I dream that? :-\
They do, but only when fired in Burst or FA modes. So a SA with no RC isn't going to get doubled, but a Burst with no RC is going to leave you at -4.
-
You can also hit multiple targets with a shotgun. Sure they get extra armor dice if flechette rounds give extra DV which is typically going to work out to an overall damage increase after damage resistance tests. Having the option to attack 2 or 3 targets can be incredibly useful, especially if things are looking bad. Most guns force you to take enemies out 1 by 1, while the shotgun can potentially mow down everyone in a short span of time.
-
Okay, here's a killer (pun intended) setup that takes shameless advantage of the No Recoil On Drones rule.
1) Get an AutoAssault 16
2) Install the following:
-----Chameleon Coating
-----High Velocity
-----Improved Range Finder
-----SmartGun System.
3) Get a Lockheed Arachne.
4) Install the following:
-----Ammo Bins
-----Chameleon Coating
-----Covert Ops 4
-----Maneuver 4
-----Pilot 6
5) Mount the AutoAssault 16 on the Arachne.
6) Repeat until your van is full.
-
Okay, here's a killer (pun intended) setup that takes shameless advantage of the No Recoil On Drones rule.
1) Get an AutoAssault 16
2) Install the following:
-----Chameleon Coating
-----High Velocity
-----Improved Range Finder
-----SmartGun System.
3) Get a Lockheed Arachne.
4) Install the following:
-----Ammo Bins
-----Chameleon Coating
-----Covert Ops 4
-----Maneuver 4
-----Pilot 6
5) Mount the AutoAssault 16 on the Arachne.
6) Repeat until your van is full.
:o OMG :o
-
Okay, here's a killer (pun intended) setup that takes shameless advantage of the No Recoil On Drones rule.
1) Get an AutoAssault 16
2) Install the following:
-----Chameleon Coating
-----High Velocity
-----Improved Range Finder
-----SmartGun System.
3) Get a Lockheed Arachne.
4) Install the following:
-----Ammo Bins
-----Chameleon Coating
-----Covert Ops 4
-----Maneuver 4
-----Pilot 6
5) Mount the AutoAssault 16 on the Arachne.
6) Repeat until your van is full.
:o OMG :o
And this is why I say we need a GATLING shotgun. Because 'too much' to lesser men is 'not enough' to shadowrunners.
-
Arachne being a drone, I assume?
-
Yes a walking sentry drone.
It is from War!
Rasmus
-
I want that drone setup *drools*
-
I want that drone setup *drools*
"Only" 53,500¥, according to Hero Lab... and most of that is the HV Modification and Pilot 6.
-
Okay, here's a killer (pun intended) setup that takes shameless advantage of the No Recoil On Drones rule.
2) Install the following:
-----Chameleon Coating
-----High Velocity
-----Improved Range Finder
-----SmartGun System.
Shameless is good ;D
5b) Load it with armor piercing flechette.
7) Get a bigger van.
Does it need High Velocity though? It is rather costly even on an expensive build like that.
And the availability is 26F...
Rasmus
-
Okay, here's a killer (pun intended) setup that takes shameless advantage of the No Recoil On Drones rule.
2) Install the following:
-----Chameleon Coating
-----High Velocity
-----Improved Range Finder
-----SmartGun System.
Shameless is good ;D
5b) Load it with armor piercing flechette.
7) Get a bigger van.
Does it need High Velocity though? It is rather costly even on an expensive build like that.
And the availability is 26F...
Rasmus
Not really.
All it does is let you fling more lead down range... Long/Long, as opposed to Long/Short, which lets you take better advantage of the Wide Chock multi-target overlap.
-
High Velocity is restricted to SMGs and Assault Rifles (pg. 26, Arsenal). :'(
I always hated that I couldn't make an actual "super-machinegun" using the rules written to make firearms called "super machineguns".
-
High Velocity is restricted to SMGs and Assault Rifles (pg. 26, Arsenal). :'(
I always hated that I couldn't make an actual "super-machinegun" using the rules written to make firearms called "super machineguns".
Huh... glitch in Hero Lab, then, since it let me throw it on.
Still, minimal impact in performance, and drops the total to 37,500¥ per drone. :D
-
Just throwing this out there, I brought up the fact that RL shotties actually can have suppressors to my gm and he allowed it.
He normally house rules that if it exists IRL then you can do it...to an extent.
-
High Velocity is restricted to SMGs and Assault Rifles (pg. 26, Arsenal). :'(
I always hated that I couldn't make an actual "super-machinegun" using the rules written to make firearms called "super machineguns".
Huh... glitch in Hero Lab, then, since it let me throw it on.
Not necessarily, the modding section of the book only lists "Full Auto-Capable Weapons Only" as a limitation.
-
Just throwing this out there, I brought up the fact that RL shotties actually can have suppressors to my gm and he allowed it.
He normally house rules that if it exists IRL then you can do it...to an extent.
Very reasonable approach, since I've caught many examples of the writers' ignorance on the subjects they're writing about.
For example, as I've said before regarding the explosives rules and what happens when you detonate 1kg of ANFO... does this look like "DV 4" to you? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o-Lf3l1VWMo)
Not necessarily, the modding section of the book only lists "Full Auto-Capable Weapons Only" as a limitation.
Well, that explains it, then. Hero Lab really is much better at parsing the rules than most people seem to be.
-
I recently found the Shiawase Arms Riot Guard, inhabiting Gun Haven 2. I have no idea why but when I saw it I thought 'That beautiful design... I must have one!' It costs an arm and a leg and doesn't come with electronics, but it is burst fire capable and uses clips instead of an internal magazine (As defined by game mechanics. Ironically the flavor text says it's magazine fed... but let's not derail the thread), both of which are nice features. Unfortunately adding an underbarrel weight (auto adjusting) and a personalized grip means that I'd need to overmod to add an additional clip (so I can switch between shock-lock and flachette rounds) but oh well.
-
Not necessarily, the modding section of the book only lists "Full Auto-Capable Weapons Only" as a limitation.
Well, that explains it, then. Hero Lab really is much better at parsing the rules than most people seem to be.
Again, the limitation is on page 26 of Arsenal, not the modding section. Coincidentally the modding sections states:
High Velocity (Full Auto-Capable Weapons Only): This turns the firearm into a high velocity weapon (see High-Velocity Weapons, p. 26)
Pg. 26, that the modding section refers to, includes this bit:
Only submachine guns and assault rifles can be constructed as high-velocity weapons.
Just throwing this out there, I brought up the fact that RL shotties actually can have suppressors to my gm and he allowed it.
He normally house rules that if it exists IRL then you can do it...to an extent.
Is there a rule that bans Shotguns from having suppressors normally?
-
I recently found the Shiawase Arms Riot Guard, inhabiting Gun Haven 2. I have no idea why but when I saw it I thought 'That beautiful design... I must have one!' It costs an arm and a leg and doesn't come with electronics, but it is burst fire capable and uses clips instead of an internal magazine (As defined by game mechanics. Ironically the flavor text says it's magazine fed... but let's not derail the thread), both of which are nice features. Unfortunately adding an underbarrel weight (auto adjusting) and a personalized grip means that I'd need to overmod to add an additional clip (so I can switch between shock-lock and flachette rounds) but oh well.
Yeah, that is one pretty little number. (sigh)
Personally though, I would go for an AS-7 with 24 shot drum clips and FA firing selection for 300 nuyen and a folding stock and a forgrip for 150 nuyen. Bam! Full-Auto shotgun six shells shy from the AA16, but costs only 1550 nuyen. AutoShotgun fun for those on a budget.
-
Is there a rule that bans Shotguns from having suppressors normally?
Actually...I'm not too sure. At first I just assumed there was since quite a bit of gun logic goes out the window in shadowrun...
-
Not necessarily, the modding section of the book only lists "Full Auto-Capable Weapons Only" as a limitation.
Well, that explains it, then. Hero Lab really is much better at parsing the rules than most people seem to be.
Again, the limitation is on page 26 of Arsenal, not the modding section. Coincidentally the modding sections states:
High Velocity (Full Auto-Capable Weapons Only): This turns the firearm into a high velocity weapon (see High-Velocity Weapons, p. 26)
Pg. 26, that the modding section refers to, includes this bit:
Only submachine guns and assault rifles can be constructed as high-velocity weapons.
But if you need to do after market modding, then the gun blatantly wasn't constructed as high-velocity weapon ;)
Also gotta agree that Riot Guard is one sweet shotgun.
-
But if you need to do after market modding, then the gun blatantly wasn't constructed as high-velocity weapon ;)
The process of modding it is constructing it to be a high-velocity weapon. Construction doesn't mean the base unmodified structure of an item. Every time you work on an item, you are constructing that item. To construct something you merely make the item by combining and arranging the correct parts. When you mod a weapon, one of the parts is the weapon before the mod. It is constructed by adding the parts of the mod.
-
Are you guys sure Shotguns aren't just AWESOME? The defender loses 2-4 dice to avoid the attack, meaning most people will have 0 dice to avoid with, aka they get hit every time. Even if the defender gets as many as 9 bonus dice, you can still hit up to 3 targets. On top of that, 9 armor dice might sound like a huge amount but it doesn't reduce much damage on average.
I just finished a session and my character uses a shotgun. He's a new character and he could be more powerful offensively if I wanted. On two occasions during the session I killed 3 targets with 1 shot. In closed spaces or situations where people are sharing partial cover, shotguns can be devastating. It's an amazing weapon for cleaning up people who're already wounded and have penalties.
In a 1 on 1 situation a shotgun isn't nearly as destructive but it's still very reliable since it almost guarantees a hit.
The one big weakness I see to shotguns is when someone uses edge on their damage resistance test. Getting 9 extra dice which can be re-rolled is pretty amazing.
-
Shotguns are still awesome (specially with the proper Choke) but not as awesome anymore as in SR3
with an awesome Dance
Medicineman
-
I just finished a session and my character uses a shotgun. He's a new character and he could be more powerful offensively if I wanted. On two occasions during the session I killed 3 targets with 1 shot.
That must have been pretty piss poor opponents, if you killed them with single 5P AP +9 attacks.
That averages out to 2P + nethits attacks.
-
To be fair if they're hell hounds, devil rats or other unarmoured foes then the +9 doesn't kick in and you're hitting them all for heavy pistol damage. That's workable.
-
Yeah, target selection is key for that. One of the reasons I prefer slugs to shot in my shotgun. Shot hits an area, but if you're going against an armored foe, then you're not going to take them down easy. With slugs, you do some fairly substantial damage, whether they are armored or not. Of course, a shotgun with AP Flechette ammo would be nice.
-
Using them as a master key ,SNS, rounds,or if you want to clear a hallway. shotguns are great with out having to lug around a machine gun. given that most fire fights during runs are CQB.........
-
Indeed. Whenever I make a sniper character, I always keep a good combat shotgun as my close range weapon.
-
AS-7 has been my key weapon for forever, backed up with a pair of AP3's (4's now in 4ed) I am a Close Quarters Combat specialist with a knack for demo. OOH RAH
-
Indeed. Whenever I make a sniper character, I always keep a good combat shotgun as my close range weapon.
I've had GMs rule that Melee Hardening added to a Sniper Rifle removes the Edge Check for using it outside of sniping situations, and adding it twice gives you the actual written benefit as well. Could be just a smidge over-powered, though, depending on the tone of the game.
After all, a super-ruggedized Barrett's only problem can be summed up with one word... "over-penetration".
-
Indeed. Whenever I make a sniper character, I always keep a good combat shotgun as my close range weapon.
I've had GMs rule that Melee Hardening added to a Sniper Rifle removes the Edge Check for using it outside of sniping situations, and adding it twice gives you the actual written benefit as well. Could be just a smidge over-powered, though, depending on the tone of the game.
After all, a super-ruggedized Barrett's only problem can be summed up with one word... "over-penetration".
More "over-compensation" :P
-
Indeed. Whenever I make a sniper character, I always keep a good combat shotgun as my close range weapon.
I've had GMs rule that Melee Hardening added to a Sniper Rifle removes the Edge Check for using it outside of sniping situations, and adding it twice gives you the actual written benefit as well. Could be just a smidge over-powered, though, depending on the tone of the game.
After all, a super-ruggedized Barrett's only problem can be summed up with one word... "over-penetration".
More "over-compensation" :P
Not for a really big Ork... or, of course, a Troll.
Especially if they happen to be named Ronald Jeremiah?
-
Indeed. Whenever I make a sniper character, I always keep a good combat shotgun as my close range weapon.
I've had GMs rule that Melee Hardening added to a Sniper Rifle removes the Edge Check for using it outside of sniping situations, and adding it twice gives you the actual written benefit as well. Could be just a smidge over-powered, though, depending on the tone of the game.
After all, a super-ruggedized Barrett's only problem can be summed up with one word... "over-penetration".
More "over-compensation" :P
Not for a really big Ork... or, of course, a Troll.
Especially if they happen to be named Ronald Jeremiah?
*facepalms* Bad JAD! Bad! No biscuit! :P
-
@ Max: 5P + net hits isn't bad considering they had no dice to avoid the shot, that in itself compensates for a lot of the lost DV. 9AP looks good on paper but it's not as game breaking as you might think. As it turned out, all 3 targets were firing from behind a door and they were all very wounded so they had -3 dice.
-
@ Max: 5P + net hits isn't bad considering they had no dice to avoid the shot, that in itself compensates for a lot of the lost DV. 9AP looks good on paper but it's not as game breaking as you might think. As it turned out, all 3 targets were firing from behind a door and they were all very wounded so they had -3 dice.
So you ment that you finished of 3 allmost dead enemies with a single shot, thats a very differend think.
Actually one shotting a target with 5P AP + 9 attack would have been a pretty hardcore feat, even a simple ganger will have 18 dice to resist that, 20 if their behind a door.
Also just to make sure your not miss understanding the rules, a wound modifiers don't apply to damage resistance tests.
-
Ahh, yes. I see what you mean. Yeah, they were severely wounded. Thanks for letting me know about that rule though, I have been subtracting damage resistance dice.
One other thing to consider is whether or not you're alone or with friends. Being able to hit multiple targets and soften them up for your friends can be quite nice, especially considering how lethal a lot of the weapons are. Shotguns are also much better in small spaces where there are multiple targets.
-
One other thing to consider is whether or not you're alone or with friends. Being able to hit multiple targets and soften them up for your friends can be quite nice, especially considering how lethal a lot of the weapons are. Shotguns are also much better in small spaces where there are multiple targets.
Yes ofcource, softening multiple opponents so your ally can finish them of easily(or finishing of enemies your allies almost killed) can be a valid tactic.
But you don't necessarily need shotguns to do that, any full auto capable weapon can also shoot three enemies at the same time(four if it's a hyper-velocity weapon) and does so with a damage bonus(as it counts as a seperate short bursts) instead of a minus and AP bonus.
-
That's true. Although Full Auto is a complex action while the shotgun can still use two simple actions to hit multiple targets. Also, the defender does get to keep more dice to avoid the attack, which in some cases could cause you to miss the attack.