Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Rules and such => Topic started by: Unahim on <12-08-12/0912:07>
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A few comments from my GM have me a bit paranoid, so I thought that I'd brush up on my foci-being-targetted-by-spells lore a bit. Specifically: What can a mage do to prevent it, and how easily are foci actually destroyed?
It seems to me that any half-assed mage with powerbolt can just target your foci, let fly, and deprive you of handfuls of spent BP or tons of karma in an instant. Perhaps you'll get lucky and manage to resist the spell a few times, but provided that you keep encountering some mages in the campaign, it almost seems inevitable to eventually lose the foci. I mean, a force 5 powerbolt targetted to a shaman's foci (made out of bits of hide, teeth and what not) would instantly destroy it given a single net hit, right? That's not that hard to do, considering the foci resists with force (+ counterspelling I guess) so even a mage with 10-12 dice has at -least- a 50% chance to pull it off.
The prospect of having to beat those odds every time we encounter enemy mages or lose roughly 20BP isn't very comforting. Anyone can relativize this a little bit?
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To a certain extent, it's a risk you take whenever you depend too heavily on any piece of equipment. That being said...
There's no requirement that you present a focus when you cast/summon, just that it be activated and on your person. So there's no reason (except maybe RP) that it has to be visible. If it's not exposed to LOS, no one can target it with Powerbolt. Mana spells on the astral are a potential problem, though, since active foci glow like Christmas tree lights on the astral (unless you have Extended Masking metamagic). Indirect spells can cause problems as well, but if your GM is allowing indirect area spells to kill your foci, make sure (s)he's not forgetting other equipment can be destroyed as well.
Usually, it's a lot easier (and more profitable) to just kill the owner and loot the focus from his corpse. It's not like you're a boss mob who can't be killed unless your foci are gone.
I don't know the full story, but stuff like this seems a lot like the GM is both metagaming and specifically out to hose particular characters or character types. If there's not an in-game reason for it, call your GM on it.
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In astral space a focus glows and you can target it with spells, but according to the FAQ you can't destroy it there. Hitting a focus in astral space will deactivate it. Of course YMMV since a lot of people don't like the FAQ.
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It is an awful lot of points used to have good foci (even more in the karma generation than in build point), so really it should be sacrosanct and not attacked directly. To do is saying, "I don't like your character type. Eat screws!"
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It is an awful lot of points used to have good foci (even more in the karma generation than in build point), so really it should be sacrosanct and not attacked directly. To do is saying, "I don't like your character type. Eat screws!"
That's how I see it too.
And LOS really shouldn't be a problem: The foci has an astral form while it's active, so a mage astrally percieving can see it, and thus target it with a direct spell. With an object resistance that's going to be quite low if it's a natural telesma, that focus is going down.
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Destroying someone's focus is like burning the wizard's spellbook in D&D. Sure, it is technically something that can happen to you, but you can't really get much higher on the "DM dick moves" list, except for "Rocks fall, everyone dies." So yes, a DM is more than within their rights to do something like that, especially if someone leaves the focus someplace unprotected, but he should be prepared for the player (and possibly the rest of the group) to hit him with the core book as hard as they can before leaving the table permanently.
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Destroying someone's focus is like burning the wizard's spellbook in D&D. Sure, it is technically something that can happen to you, but you can't really get much higher on the "DM dick moves" list, except for "Rocks fall, everyone dies." So yes, a DM is more than within their rights to do something like that, especially if someone leaves the focus someplace unprotected, but he should be prepared for the player (and possibly the rest of the group) to hit him with the core book as hard as they can before leaving the table permanently.
Especially if said focus is a Force 4 Power Focus bought on character generation. Any GM who destroys 29 build points or 97 karma worth of a character like that seriously needs to go back to GM school.
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On a real-world-tactical level, it makes a lot of sense for an enemy mage to target a focus: deprive the enemy of their very good support stuff. After all, enemies can always have Wreck Gun or use Powerball or AOE spells to destroy the Sam's guns or whatnot.
On a gaming level, yeah, intentionally targeting a focus is pretty douchey. However if your mage PC is going up against ganger-mages or other deniable assets, those enemies would more likely want that R4 Power Focus for themselves, after all! Or even a weaker Focus..hell, they can always bind it if they can use it or resell it if they don't want it. And even a corp-mage would probably be tempted to keep something like an R4 Power Focus as a "hazard pay bonus" rather than blow it up. So good IC reasons for an enemy mage to want to just kill you and keep the focus rather than target and destroy it.
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And LOS really shouldn't be a problem: The foci has an astral form while it's active, so a mage astrally percieving can see it, and thus target it with a direct spell. With an object resistance that's going to be quite low if it's a natural telesma, that focus is going down.
That can be hidden with Extended Masking, witch is one of the reasons why it's a high priority metamagic for all mages and mystic adepts.
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By the time you get it the foci you want to protect has already been destroyed if that is how the GM rolls, though :p
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Anyone who destroys thousands of nuyens worth of magical equipment should be fired. From a gauss cannon. Into space.
I'd make a nice armored case for the focus, if it's possible. Or hide it beneath my armor - you need only to be in contact with it, if you don't have some kind of Geas. Or a kevlar/titanum/ceramic sheath for a weapon focus.
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Well, my foci are pierced through the skin, so that's not that much of a problem.
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Well, my foci are pierced through the skin, so that's not that much of a problem.
Power Focus prince albert?
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Power Focus prince albert?
Rookie.
(http://ill-use.com/joom/images/stories/back-corset-piercings.jpg)
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*shudders* That's just ridiculous in my opinion, but then again I was raised that only women and homosexuals wear earrings and that other piercings are sick, disgusting and wrong.
That said, my current views are less than that, but I still don't particularly care for piercing THAT excessive.
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*shudders* That's just ridiculous in my opinion, but then again I was raised that only women and homosexuals wear earrings and that other piercings are sick, disgusting and wrong.
How sad it must be to have been raised like that.
Back on topic, you could have a false cyber case from Spy Games (I forget the exact item name), you could put your foci under that for a little extra shielding.
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How sad it must be to have been raised like that.
Meh, chalk it up to a result of being raised at the tail-end of the Bible Belt.
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Ah yes, the good ol' Bible Belt. Yeah, that kind of thinking happens a lot around here.
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There's a mana spell in Digital Grimoire which directly attacks and deactivates a focus on the physical or astral.
That said, it's perfectly viable to attack the focus and destroy it in meat space. You make some nice wooden trinket as part of your druid's kit... don't surprise if it burns in the fireball.
But from the astral... it's actually very much undefined. But I'd go with the FAQ that the best you can do from the astral is deactivate things (you used to be able to break them... which meant any kind of focus for an adept was a waste unless they also had a lot of astral combat and astral perception power). A lot of that is based on they're very high karma investments and it's a little too easy if a pack of astral spirits can suddenly surround your physical form on the astral and pummel your defenseless focus into useless scrap using astral combat.
Some of the most powerful characters in the game are people who use foci to augment their magical abiltiies... there is nothing wrong with removing a crutch if it's being abused. That said, you're far better off stealing them rather than destroying them unless it's a desperation act. Foci are worth big money even when resold for a fraction of the original price.
But if the mage brings wreck guns to a fight... he should not be surprised if his own tools are attacked and removed from the board as well. Turnabout is fair play, is one of the biggest rules I see used in groups. Do not (ab)use rules or loopholes unless you wish to be subjected to the same.
I really don't see why you bother posting in a rules sub forum at all All4BigGuns. You have nothing to comment on the rules as published. You simply comment repeatedly that the rules should be ignored and your whims honored even when the rules say otherwise. Then engage in pointless namecalling of people who disagree with you by calling faceless GM's dicks and the like.
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There's a mana spell in Digital Grimoire which directly attacks and deactivates a focus on the physical or astral.
That said, it's perfectly viable to attack the focus and destroy it in meat space. You make some nice wooden trinket as part of your druid's kit... don't surprise if it burns in the fireball.
But from the astral... it's actually very much undefined. But I'd go with the FAQ that the best you can do from the astral is deactivate things (you used to be able to break them... which meant any kind of focus for an adept was a waste unless they also had a lot of astral combat and astral perception power). A lot of that is based on they're very high karma investments and it's a little too easy if a pack of astral spirits can suddenly surround your physical form on the astral and pummel your defenseless focus into useless scrap using astral combat.
Some of the most powerful characters in the game are people who use foci to augment their magical abiltiies... there is nothing wrong with removing a crutch if it's being abused. That said, you're far better off stealing them rather than destroying them unless it's a desperation act. Foci are worth big money even when resold for a fraction of the original price.
But if the mage brings wreck guns to a fight... he should not be surprised if his own tools are attacked and removed from the board as well. Turnabout is fair play, is one of the biggest rules I see used in groups. Do not (ab)use rules or loopholes unless you wish to be subjected to the same.
I really don't see why you bother posting in a rules sub forum at all All4BigGuns. You have nothing to comment on the rules as published. You simply comment repeatedly that the rules should be ignored and your whims honored even when the rules say otherwise. Then engage in pointless namecalling of people who disagree with you by calling faceless GM's dicks and the like.
In case you haven't noticed I merely stated that that's an awful lot of generation points to just arbitrarily strip from a character. Now, granted, the GM who does that is being an antagonistic arse, but that's beside the point. The points were allocated to that, and thus it should still remain sacrosanct unless the GM provides FOR FREE something of equivalent utility and value SOON after.
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There's a difference between deactivating the focus and destroying it, naturally. One is a nice sucker punch to remind players that their toys can be used against them. Deliberately destroying it is on a whole different level.