Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: ARC on <12-23-12/0309:55>
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Ok, so my group has a really bad habit of being gluttons for mayhem. Well, I figured a way to teach them a lesson. A booby trapped grenade. Instead of pulling the pin and throwing it. The BG's throw it with the pin still in it. The runners will see it and think that the GM glitched. Pick up the Grenade and pull the pin, at which point it blows up in their hands. Throwing Random ones at the runners during a few sessions will teach them to run instead of fight. I know it's evil, but there are times where the story is better served with them running and not fighting.
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DO IT!
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Chugga-chugga-WOOO-WOOO!!!!!!!!
(http://theregoi.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Empty-Railroad-Tracks.jpg)
But, seriously, what the hell are you doing writing stories that depend on your crew running away when they obviously would rather slug it out?
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Why are the people your runners are coming up against using booby trapped grenades, besides your intent to be passive aggressive about not holding a firefight?
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Why are the people your runners are coming up against using booby trapped grenades, besides your intent to be passive aggressive about not holding a firefight?
Heck..why does he think his players would fall for that? Yes, I would used booby trapped grenades..All my guards would have
one in a guard team. If you were a runner who looted the bodies of the guards for munitions, and they blew up in your hands
using those munitions, even if it is one out of 6, would you be inclined to steal from those guards? (I would also use guns
all with Ammo Skip system installed, and the first round in each magazine is booby trapped to blow up...for the same reason)
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even if it is one out of 6
How are the security teams telling the difference? Can they be mixed up? Will the runners be given a chance to notice the difference on looting or having one thrown at them?
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IIRC, new grenades are wireless and can go off on a signal as well as the timed fuse. It's just that the wireless isn't as reliable as the fuse, as they're not exactly meant for long-term use for some reason. ;D
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IIRC, new grenades are wireless and can go off on a signal as well as the timed fuse. It's just that the wireless isn't as reliable as the fuse, as they're not exactly meant for long-term use for some reason. ;D
This reminds me of the Fallout: New Vegas DLC where you're stuck wearing a bomb collar (I don't remember the name of the DLC). If you get too close to a speaker, that just so happens to operate on the same frequency, you go *boom*. I think it would be cool to do something similar with the wireless grenades every now and then. Simply keep the PC's on their toes type thing.
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Ok, so my group has a really bad habit of being gluttons for mayhem.
So give them mayhem, and everything that comes with it - a reputation for mayhem, a lack of 'quiet runs', lots of 'playing decoy for the guys actually getting the job done'. "Hi, we want you to frontally assault this checkpoint. Your pay will be three thousand each." Hitting them with implausable (and yes, booby-trapped grenades are at the very least implausable outside of a war zone) things is likely to backfire, and there are so many easier (and IMO better) ways to control this in-game.
Perhaps you should run a game where it's 'just ordinary life' - where they go down to the Hollow Point and someone introduces themselves ("Hi, I'm Shotgun Mary.") and when they introduce themselves back, they get "Oh, right, the blood-and-guts team. You guys are still alive? Good for you." And then people avoid them - or worse yet, ignore them as wannabes and amateurs.
Seriously, I sat with two players in a convention game a couple of years ago who believed that because the game's name was ShadowRun, if you didn't do something (read: caused major mayhem and other stupid shit) that made it necessary for you to flee the scene, you weren't playing it right.
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IIRC, new grenades are wireless and can go off on a signal as well as the timed fuse. It's just that the wireless isn't as reliable as the fuse, as they're not exactly meant for long-term use for some reason. ;D
This reminds me of the Fallout: New Vegas DLC where you're stuck wearing a bomb collar (I don't remember the name of the DLC). If you get too close to a speaker, that just so happens to operate on the same frequency, you go *boom*. I think it would be cool to do something similar with the wireless grenades every now and then. Simply keep the PC's on their toes type thing.
Dead Money was that DLC.
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IIRC, new grenades are wireless and can go off on a signal as well as the timed fuse. It's just that the wireless isn't as reliable as the fuse, as they're not exactly meant for long-term use for some reason. ;D
Of course, most runners, and people in general for that matter, keep the grenades wireless off until in use. That said, it's definitely something to remember when you soak a runner in Intruder Nanites. ::)... ;D
Personally, I prefer just using dummy grenades (or illusions of grenades) to provoke flee status in other characters (both as GM and player). Used right you can herd people right where you want them.
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Booby trapping dead bodies with grenades has been around since Vietnam war times. That would be perhaps even likely in Bogota or Chicago.
Radio detonated grenades exist today (see Robert Pronge, a real life assassin).
What you are proposing, ARC, is really just being passive aggressive. They will have to learn to run away eventually. Rarely do runs go perfectly. The best laid plans dont survive contact with the enemy. Just throw something at them that they cant handle. One will die. Maybe two. They will hopefully learn the lesson.
Unless, of course, the group would resent you for it. Then don't do that. Remember the golden rule: Have Fun! If the group always wins, and they like that, why change it?
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I'm not the one who says that Shadowrun is (or should be) GM vs. Players; that's a recipe for disaster, that is. However, winning every time, and having no consequences for stupid decisions, makes for a very bland - and if the gaming group is like any I've ever been in, eventually craptastic - game. I don't mind players with a racing team (Kane), or being the Most Wanted Criminal in thirteen countries (Kane) or showing zero team loyalty and screwing over other runners at the drop of a hat (Kane), if there actually is a purpose behind it (Kane) - and especially if it's done in such a clever way that all of his 'I screw everyone over' events balance major players against each other (Kane), and all of his millions are finally/eventually burned in order to achieve that single purpose (Kane) leaving him penniless but successful. (Ka ... wait, is Kane penniless?)
If there's no threat of losing, or no real consequence for doing so, then why bother? "Hi, I'm Mr. Johnson, and I'll pay you 30,000¥ to go across the street and get me a ham-on-rye. No mayo." Success, and if they want to blow up the sub shop, hey, it's fun and they win, right? People (both characters and players) measure success by the threat level that they're matched against. Often, the very best measure of success in a game is 'and then we had to run away', 'and then we got captured', or other similar event, which is then followed by how they pulled it out in the end. Look at any action movie, any really good book, and virtually every comic book. Heroes reach 'oh crap' well before they reach 'save the day'.
To boot, in SR there are runs specifically set up to be fail/fail scenarios. Piss off Lofwyr, and you'll be ripe for one.
Of course, I'm really kind of preaching to the choir on all this, aren't I, Prodigy? You seem to be of the same opinion anyhow, so it's more a matter of developing the players into better players ...
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Correct.
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Kane penniless? Nah.
Last I heard, he's got some parts to make Stealth Bombers... Realllly looking forward to finding out if he can manage to find the rest of the parts he needs.
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I'm not the one who says that Shadowrun is (or should be) GM vs. Players; that's a recipe for disaster, that is. However, winning every time, and having no consequences for stupid decisions, makes for a very bland - and if the gaming group is like any I've ever been in, eventually craptastic - game. I don't mind players with a racing team (Kane), or being the Most Wanted Criminal in thirteen countries (Kane) or showing zero team loyalty and screwing over other runners at the drop of a hat (Kane), if there actually is a purpose behind it (Kane) - and especially if it's done in such a clever way that all of his 'I screw everyone over' events balance major players against each other (Kane), and all of his millions are finally/eventually burned in order to achieve that single purpose (Kane) leaving him penniless but successful. (Ka ... wait, is Kane penniless?)
If there's no threat of losing, or no real consequence for doing so, then why bother? "Hi, I'm Mr. Johnson, and I'll pay you 30,000¥ to go across the street and get me a ham-on-rye. No mayo." Success, and if they want to blow up the sub shop, hey, it's fun and they win, right? People (both characters and players) measure success by the threat level that they're matched against. Often, the very best measure of success in a game is 'and then we had to run away', 'and then we got captured', or other similar event, which is then followed by how they pulled it out in the end. Look at any action movie, any really good book, and virtually every comic book. Heroes reach 'oh crap' well before they reach 'save the day'.
To boot, in SR there are runs specifically set up to be fail/fail scenarios. Piss off Lofwyr, and you'll be ripe for one.
Of course, I'm really kind of preaching to the choir on all this, aren't I, Prodigy? You seem to be of the same opinion anyhow, so it's more a matter of developing the players into better players ...
It's all in degree and frequency. It's fine for things to "go south" some times, but there's a fine line between 'just enough' and 'oh dear lord, you did what to your group' that is very hard to see.
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The fine line is between... its consistent with the story and makes in-universe sense vs weird randomness which seems as if some cosmic force (ie the GM) is just out to get them. Booby Trapped Grenades probably falls into the second group... unless the enemy has a reputation like the Black Hats out of Hell on Earth (who indeed booby trap everything)
It will also depend on the group's tolerance for misfortune. Some groups thrive on adversity, other groups less so. If your group needs their friday night game to blow of steam and feel good, constantly hitting them with random sh*t won't go down well. Like all things, this really is a case by case scenario and relies on the GM and Players being on the same page.
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Kane penniless? Nah.
Quite possible. He's a fellow that has to keep working in order to keep what he has.
Which includes his freedom.
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Kane penniless? Nah.
Quite possible. He's a fellow that has to keep working in order to keep what he has.
Which includes his freedom.
He is not free....he just has a different kind of master, the illusion of freedom,t hat he has to work on maintaining to
keep it from slipping through his fingers...No, he is a slave to his desire to NOT be in a Corp prison.
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Just saying that the way I read Kane so far, he doesn't really seem to be so poor.
All the equipment, vehicles and drones he uses -and all the ammo he fires and bombs he drops- cost a small fortune, yet I've never seen Kane say anything like "I went easy on them because I couldn't afford more firepower".
I also have the impression that even if he was completely broke and alone, there are places everywhere in the world where he just has to mention his name (if he's not recognized immediately) and he'll have crew and equipment just jumping at the chance to work with the legendary pirate to boost their rep. Food and bed included.
Naw, Kane is the richest man in the world, I don't believe for a second that he's not free. Yeah, he's on the run from law and corps all over the planet, but that's because he just loves playing that game.
If Kane wanted to retire to a quiet and easy life, I don't doubt that there are plenty of corporations who'd immediately hire and hide him and give him a new identity. If not for the wealth of information and experience the guy's got to offer, then just because it's a lot cheaper than having him steal another couple of mega-size containerships full of goods.
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Naw, Kane is the richest man in the world, I don't believe for a second that he's not free. Yeah, he's on the run from law and corps all over the planet, but that's because he just loves playing that game.
If Kane wanted to retire to a quiet and easy life, I don't doubt that there are plenty of corporations who'd immediately hire and hide him and give him a new identity. If not for the wealth of information and experience the guy's got to offer, then just because it's a lot cheaper than having him steal another couple of mega-size containerships full of goods.
Just another kind of slavery. Ultimately, we're all slaves to something. Even Kane. No-ones truly free. We just like to believe
we are. Kane's master is his very illusion of freedom. You even proved it: if he wants to retire, he has to get a Corp, the
very things he preys upon, to hide him. If he didn't, he would spend his whole retirement looking over his shoulder until
a bullet finally catches up to him.
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In all honesty, throwing the booby trapped "dud" grenades seems very passive aggressive. I know if my GM was to do this and someone died from it my group would most likely get a kick out of it but it's a round about way to go.
The type of runs my GM sets us on go more or less like this: either we're careful and take advantage of being quite and stealthy or we get loads of goons and or other baddies coming after us.
Generally we go the stealth route but when we don't, we try to prepare for one hell of a fight.
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Eh, the GM only did it because a player is playing Wild Card, a joker mystic adept who behaves like Deadpool, and he booby traps all his gear. He got the idea from that. The result was the street sam lost the hand on his right cyberarm and had to fix it. The game isn't a super serious game. I mean, Wild Card has deliberately breaking the fourth wall as a part of his character. Then, there is Rage Fish, a Menehune Changeling Shark Shaman Mystic Adept that lives in a polluted lake. Seeing a theme here?
That said, I kind of want certain people to stop inciting random mayhem at every turn. It isn't necessary to set bombs and blow up the building when we leave. It also isn't necessary for certain people to inflict Physical damage to take down the enemies either. It also doesn't help that every time I try to inflict Stun damage or just hold an enemy in place with spells like Glue Strip, they resist it and/or I forget a factor that causes the spell to kill them (Ever cast Glue Strip in front of a motorcycle? It stops all right....but the guy gets flying off of it and breaks his neck! Or how about levitating them up into the air and leaving them there, figuring they will fall 3m and maybe hurt their leg but they will live, but then a teammate informs you they set bombs in the facility just as it goes BOOM! Or maybe placing a Stone Wall in front of the door when I see a dude fires a rocket launcher, but forget the enemy two paces left of the doorway?).
It doesn't help that my character went the route of Sukie Redflower (Horizon is making movies of him. "The Adventures of Mason Stoneworker, Rear Guard!"). Everyone keeps recognizing me because of the Fame quality and a Public Awareness of 6 or so. I have to keep using the Mask spell or other means of avoiding notice. When people recognize me, my rep gets associated with the damn explosions that happen shortly later.
So, yeah, anyway, random destruction and mayhem and craziness happens a lot in this group, so it isn't that unusual for bounty hunters trying to steal a package of tempo we are delivering to have booby trapped grenades. I have played in groups with less crazy, so I know it is just the assortment of people we have.
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Eh, the GM only did it because a player is playing Wild Card, a joker mystic adept who behaves like Deadpool, and he booby traps all his gear. He got the idea from that. The result was the street sam lost the hand on his right cyberarm and had to fix it. The game isn't a super serious game. I mean, Wild Card has deliberately breaking the fourth wall as a part of his character. Then, there is Rage Fish, a Menehune Changeling Shark Shaman Mystic Adept that lives in a polluted lake. Seeing a theme here?
That said, I kind of want certain people to stop inciting random mayhem at every turn. It isn't necessary to set bombs and blow up the building when we leave. It also isn't necessary for certain people to inflict Physical damage to take down the enemies either. It also doesn't help that every time I try to inflict Stun damage or just hold an enemy in place with spells like Glue Strip, they resist it and/or I forget a factor that causes the spell to kill them (Ever cast Glue Strip in front of a motorcycle? It stops all right....but the guy gets flying off of it and breaks his neck! Or how about levitating them up into the air and leaving them there, figuring they will fall 3m and maybe hurt their leg but they will live, but then a teammate informs you they set bombs in the facility just as it goes BOOM! Or maybe placing a Stone Wall in front of the door when I see a dude fires a rocket launcher, but forget the enemy two paces left of the doorway?).
It doesn't help that my character went the route of Sukie Redflower (Horizon is making movies of him. "The Adventures of Mason Stoneworker, Rear Guard!"). Everyone keeps recognizing me because of the Fame quality and a Public Awareness of 6 or so. I have to keep using the Mask spell or other means of avoiding notice. When people recognize me, my rep gets associated with the damn explosions that happen shortly later.
So, yeah, anyway, random destruction and mayhem and craziness happens a lot in this group, so it isn't that unusual for bounty hunters trying to steal a package of tempo we are delivering to have booby trapped grenades. I have played in groups with less crazy, so I know it is just the assortment of people we have.
Your team sounds almost as crazy as mine... except that mine doesn't need to try!