Shadowrun
Shadowrun General => Gear => Topic started by: FuelDrop on <01-15-13/0606:40>
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Assault rifle Damage AP Mode Ammo Avail Cost.
Ares Helfire 5P* 1/2B-1 SA/BF 20 30F *To be determined*
*The Ares Helfire uses specialized ammunition that costs 100 nuyen per ten shots, and cannot use other forms of ammunition. It is powered by peak discharge batteries.
The Ares Helfire is the world's first Gauss assault rifle, effectively a miniaturization of the Ares Thunderstruck.
Edit: The Helfire gains no benefit from Gas Vent systems.
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My initial reaction? Oh HELL no! This is a bad bad bad idea to be putting in the hands of players and NPCs. Just don't. Ever.
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My initial reaction? Oh HELL no! This is a bad bad bad idea to be putting in the hands of players and NPCs. Just don't. Ever.
Interesting. It's lower damage than laser weapons or stick-and-shock, requires both ammunition and power cells to run, is hard to get, and can't make use of specialized ammunition. I must be missing how this one is so much more gamebreaking than other options that are already out there.
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The 1/2 Ballistic -1 armor penetration probably.
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The 1/2 Ballistic -1 armor penetration probably.
Much like lasers (AP 1/2B, better damage for rifle sized weapons) and Stick-and-shock (1/2I, better base damage).
Anyway, APDS/AV rounds are capable of giving similar penetration against most armour from a more conventional assault rifle. so yes it's powerful, but I'm still not sold on it being massively better than other options that are already out there (Trades worse base damage for more convenient skill with lasers, and is arguably less broken than stick-and-shock rounds)
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And the fact that it would fall under Automatics instead of Heavy Weapons or Exotic Ranged Weapon.
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Hey, I was just saying the only thing I could think of. It doesn't look so bad to me. Though I'd probably pull the extra -1 off of the armor penetration, personally.
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I would classify it as a heavy weapon (if not exotic), and make it a flat -half AP (except smart armor). And even then, assuming I completely took leave of my senses and allowed it into play, I'd let any player who wanted the thing know that any guard or ganger with half a brain is going to see that thing, and set them right next to the mage in the 'to be geeked' list. Of course, I do the same to anyone wearing milspec armor or doing other such things.
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I would classify it as a heavy weapon (if not exotic), and make it a flat -half AP (except smart armor). And even then, assuming I completely took leave of my senses and allowed it into play, I'd let any player who wanted the thing know that any guard or ganger with half a brain is going to see that thing, and set them right next to the mage in the 'to be geeked' list. Of course, I do the same to anyone wearing milspec armor or doing other such things.
How about putting it into Longarms?
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I would classify it as a heavy weapon (if not exotic), and make it a flat -half AP (except smart armor). And even then, assuming I completely took leave of my senses and allowed it into play, I'd let any player who wanted the thing know that any guard or ganger with half a brain is going to see that thing, and set them right next to the mage in the 'to be geeked' list. Of course, I do the same to anyone wearing milspec armor or doing other such things.
How about putting it into Longarms?
No, there's already plenty of sniper rifles in Longarms that do the job just fine.
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I would classify it as a heavy weapon (if not exotic), and make it a flat -half AP (except smart armor). And even then, assuming I completely took leave of my senses and allowed it into play, I'd let any player who wanted the thing know that any guard or ganger with half a brain is going to see that thing, and set them right next to the mage in the 'to be geeked' list. Of course, I do the same to anyone wearing milspec armor or doing other such things.
How about putting it into Longarms?
No, there's already plenty of sniper rifles in Longarms that do the job just fine.
Then shorten the range and make it a shotgun :)
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I put the 1/2b -1 because the gun's big brother (Which is effectively an assault cannon) deals less damage than other assault cannons (minimal difference, but there) and has 1/2 -4 penetration, which is about the same as having a normal assault cannon's penetration and halving the armour.
Good catch on the smart armour.
If a guard saw you running around with a 30F weapon (IE cutting edge milspec) hell yes is he going to prioritize you as a target! much like if you were wielding a laser, or any other cutting edge weapon.
as to why make it an assault rifle rather than an exotic weapon or the like: Exotic weapons that give 1/2B penetration already exist, they're called lasers. This is for all intents and purposes an assault rifle...
Hang on, if we cut the underbarrel slot from it then it can't take a Gyromount. without access to a Gyromount or gas vents, it'll be very hard for an enterprising young player to mod it for full auto and let rip. Let's double the penalties for recoil while we're about it, as a mini-gauss rifle is going to have serious kick.
Does that seem a better balance?
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I would classify it as a heavy weapon (if not exotic), and make it a flat -half AP (except smart armor). And even then, assuming I completely took leave of my senses and allowed it into play, I'd let any player who wanted the thing know that any guard or ganger with half a brain is going to see that thing, and set them right next to the mage in the 'to be geeked' list. Of course, I do the same to anyone wearing milspec armor or doing other such things.
How about putting it into Longarms?
No, there's already plenty of sniper rifles in Longarms that do the job just fine.
Then shorten the range and make it a shotgun :)
Just shortening the range wouldn't make it a shotgun. :P
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I think that the "not ever" from others is a bit much for a weapon like this - it would probably be a later-period weapon due to the difficulties of miniaturization, but inevitably eventually something like this is going to be built. I think that since it's a scaled-down railgun (gauss rifle) that it would better fit under Exotic Ranged or Heavy Weapons: yes it's miniaturized, but it's still heavy and bulky and that's a big part of wielding Heavy Weapons. Automatics are relatively light and maneuverable and already are filled with "I kill you" weapons.
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I put the 1/2b -1 because the gun's big brother (Which is effectively an assault cannon) deals less damage than other assault cannons (minimal difference, but there) and has 1/2 -4 penetration, which is about the same as having a normal assault cannon's penetration and halving the armour.
Good catch on the smart armour.
If a guard saw you running around with a 30F weapon (IE cutting edge milspec) hell yes is he going to prioritize you as a target! much like if you were wielding a laser, or any other cutting edge weapon.
as to why make it an assault rifle rather than an exotic weapon or the like: Exotic weapons that give 1/2B penetration already exist, they're called lasers. This is for all intents and purposes an assault rifle...
Hang on, if we cut the underbarrel slot from it then it can't take a Gyromount. without access to a Gyromount or gas vents, it'll be very hard for an enterprising young player to mod it for full auto and let rip. Let's double the penalties for recoil while we're about it, as a mini-gauss rifle is going to have serious kick.
Does that seem a better balance?
If it requires the power packs like the Thunderstruck, and is listed under Heavy Weapons, then I would call it acceptable. Though the idea of something like this even doing BF leaves a bad taste in my mouth, honestly. Any player trying to mod it to FA would be instantly phone booked repeatedly about the head.
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My thoughts on why it looks over powered?
It has far better ballistic armour penetration than any other ballistic weapon, tearing through milspec armour with comparative ease. Against anything above pretty standard armour (an Armour Jacket) it has better penetration than the Assault Cannon sized Gauss Rifle. I'm double checking my copy of Arsenal and the Gauss Rifle just has -4B AP. The other two Assault Cannons have -5B.
Fix that down to -2B say, and there probably isn't a great deal wrong with it.
Lasers do 1/2 I, which makes sense as they are energy based rather than ballistic and energy usually targets Impact.
The Gauss Rifle's lower AP and damage compared to ther Assault Cannons is balanced by it's ability to fire two shots an IP.
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it has better penetration than the Assault Cannon sized Gauss Rifle. I'm double checking my copy of Arsenal and the Gauss Rifle just has -4B AP. The other two Assault Cannons have -5B.
Errata'd (wow, I never thought I'd get to say that for shadowrun!). The full gauss rifle's ap is 1/2 ballistic -4.
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it has better penetration than the Assault Cannon sized Gauss Rifle. I'm double checking my copy of Arsenal and the Gauss Rifle just has -4B AP. The other two Assault Cannons have -5B.
Errata'd (wow, I never thought I'd get to say that for shadowrun!). The full gauss rifle's ap is 1/2 ballistic -4.
Wowzas. I'm off to work up a back-up character with a Gauss Rifle.
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If a guard saw you running around with a 30F weapon (IE cutting edge milspec) hell yes is he going to prioritize you as a target! much like if you were wielding a laser, or any other cutting edge weapon.
If it's 30F, most guards will have never seen one before, even on Trid. That goes beyond MilSpec to Classified Prototype territory. All they'll know is that it doesn't look like any other gun they've seen, but that's true of a lot of the over-modded weapons Shadowrunners carry.
Once you fire it, they'll probably realize it's special though.
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"OMG, I've only seen that in Desert Wars!!! KILL THAT GUY A LOT!!!"
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"OMG, I've only seen that in Desert Wars!!! KILL THAT GUY A LOT!!!"
This. This is the perfect reaction whenever players get too hyped about getting the biggest, baddest milspec weapons to use on day to day biz. Remember, geek the mage first, the guy with milspec gear second.
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20-30-100F doesn't mean no ones seen it before it's juste exceedingly rare on the streets or not at all because no one rips off the CIWS gun from a destroyer and mounts it in their truck, or goes running off with that air to ground artillery piece.
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I can just see the sales pitch for this right now.
She weighs 150 kilograms and fires ¥200 custom-tooled cartridges at 10,000 rounds per minute. [leans in] It cost ¥400,000 to fire this weapon...for 12 seconds.
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...because no one rips off the CIWS gun from a destroyer and mounts it in their truck...
Don't know Rednecks that well, do you?
(http://www.platforms-mil.de/Bilder/Air_Defence_Raytheon_Centurion%203.jpg)
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/9b/C-RAM_3.JPG)
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Interesting. I wonder what the typical engagement envelope for those things is ...
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That's a phalanx gun, and that is not the Gaz pickup I was imagining, that's an actual military weapons platform, and at a guess I'd say it's for coastal defense or as a supplementary system where there aren't normal weapon mounts, or it's in transit.
And by no one, I mean, people who aren't driving my Zugmaschine. :3
Id Est, my land gunship.
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... 3.6 km. That's far enough for my game's purposes.
... note, NOT a Shadowrun game !! A 'teen battle school' scenario using the HERO system.
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That's a phalanx gun, and that is not the Gaz pickup I was imagining, that's an actual military weapons platform, and at a guess I'd say it's for coastal defense or as a supplementary system where there aren't normal weapon mounts, or it's in transit.
The Phalanx System is a CIWS. And it could be hauled by anything with a Fifth Wheel and the towing power needed, so a Gaz Pickup with a Fifth-Wheel Modification and kept in low gear.
So, yeah, it's not mounted in the bed of the truck as you were thinking, but I could see some Barrens fellow jury-rigging something up like this. Drones come in to spy... They don't come out! Then shoot, and scoot! ;D
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Heh, yeah, but this'd be that example of the 40F gun that two runs and 3 months of work went into getting. It's not that they're particularly rare, it's the circumstance in which a civie is trying to get one, from a purely military market.
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Heh, yeah, but this'd be that example of the 40F gun that two runs and 3 months of work went into getting. It's not that they're particularly rare, it's the circumstance in which a civie is trying to get one, from a purely military market.
"I had a lot of coupons and Special Customer Deals from Weapon's World!" ;D
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I'll use that next time I pull out my Shiawase Heavy Tactical.
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I can just see the sales pitch for this right now.
She weighs 150 kilograms and fires ¥200 custom-tooled cartridges at 10,000 rounds per minute. [leans in] It cost ¥400,000 to fire this weapon...for 12 seconds.
"Sir, I am afraid they are correct, it is right here in the fine print:
'Plus expenses.'"
-Jn-
City of Brass Expatriate