Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: EternalZiggurat on <01-22-13/2208:19>
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I'm about to make my second adept, and I'm wanting to make him optimized. What powers do you guys think are general must haves? I'm making him combat primary, infiltration secondary. What powers are traps/not worth the cost?
With way of the adept, do I still "need" to make him augmented?
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Some will say you do, but even without it you don't NEED to, and IMO one loses a lot of the flavor of being an Adept (to the point that one might as well just build a Street Sam) by taking the implants.
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Most people like to take Muscle Toner to get higher agility. If you don't want to do that, an alternative would be to make a Mystic Adept and use a Increase Agility spell. I don't think you need ware to be optimized but there are definitely pros and cons. Attribute Boost is also a good option to get that extra agility.
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And really, you don't need to enhance your attributes at all with an Adept. Remember, their power to improve skills can give up to 3 to the skill whereas the implant that can bonus any skill can only give 1. Not to mention that if building a melee Adept, you have the option of a Weapon Focus (something a mundane can't get the benefit of) and that can be up to 4 more dice to attack that weapon right out of creation--with Restricted Gear.
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Even with Warriors Way AND Optional Adept Geasa rules, the cold hard math is that you will miss out on some numbers if you don't take 1 ESS in Bioware, once you get Delta or even Alpha ware. Sorry, but them's the breaks.
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Even with Warriors Way AND Optional Adept Geasa rules, the cold hard math is that you will miss out on some numbers if you don't take 1 ESS in Bioware, once you get Delta or even Alpha ware. Sorry, but them's the breaks.
Not enough to really matter much. As I said, an Adept doesn't even need to enhance attributes at all to be very, very good at their specialty, and be passable in a secondary ability. (I know this because I have either one or two built that are actually kinda sickening without a single augmented attribute beyond the Reaction from getting IP or implant.
== Info ==
Street Name: Steelshine
Name: Blake Storm
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 6
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 1
Public Awareness: 0
Elf Male Age 35
Height 6'3"
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 7
Lift/Carry: 10 (75 kg/50 kg)
Memory: 5
Nuyen: 0
== Attributes ==
BOD: 5
AGI: 6
REA: 3 (5)
STR: 5
CHA: 3
INT: 4
LOG: 2
WIL: 3
EDG: 1
MAG: 6
== Derived Attributes ==
Essence: 6
Initiative: 7 (9)
IP: 1 (3)
Astral Initiative: 8
Astral IP: 3
Matrix Initiative: 7
Matrix IP: 1
Physical Damage Track: 11
Stun Damage Track: 10
== Active Skills ==
Blades : 6 [Swords] Pool: 15 (17)
Climbing : 3 Pool: 8
Disguise : 4 Pool: 8
Etiquette : 3 [Street] Pool: 6 (8)
Flight : 3 Pool: 8
Gymnastics : 3 Pool: 9
Hardware : 4 [Maglocks] Pool: 6 (8)
Infiltration : 4 Pool: 12
Palming : 4 Pool: 10
Perception : 3 Pool: 10
Pilot Ground Craft : 1 [Wheeled] Pool: 6 (8)
Pistols : 2 [Semi-Automatics] Pool: 8 (10)
Running : 3 Pool: 8
Shadowing : 4 Pool: 8
Swimming : 3 Pool: 8
== Knowledge Skills ==
Area Knowledge: Seattle : 3 Pool: 7
Bars and Clubs : 3 Pool: 7
English : N Pool: 0
Security Systems : 4 Pool: 6
Sperethiel : 4 Pool: 8
== Contacts ==
Fixer (6, 3)
== Qualities ==
Adept
Bad Luck
Low Pain Tolerance
Low-Light Vision
Restricted Gear (Rating 1)
SINner (Standard) (Blake Storm)
The Warrior's Way
== Powers ==
Combat Sense Rating: 4
Enhanced Perception Rating: 3
Improved Ability (Combat) (Blades) Rating: 3
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Infiltration) Rating: 2
Improved Reflexes 2
Sustenance
== Lifestyles ==
Middle 4 months
== Armor ==
Bike Racing Armor 5/8
+Chemical Protection 6
+Gel Packs
+Ruthenium Polymer Coating
+YNT SoftWeave
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
+Nonconductivity 6
SecureTech PPP Armor (Ensemble)2/4
== Weapons ==
Browning Ultra-Power
+Chameleon Coating
+Laser Sight
Pool: 9 (11) DV: 5P AP: -1 RC: 0
Sword
+Chameleon Coating
+Personalized Grip, Melee
+Weapon Focus Rating 4
Pool: 20 (22) DV: 8P AP: - RC: 0
Unarmed Attack
Pool: 5 DV: 3S AP: - RC: 0
== Martial Arts ==
Arnis De Mano
++1 DV on Blades attacks
++1 DV on Blades attacks
== Commlink ==
Novatech Airware (3, 3, 3, 3)
+Iris Orb
+AR Gloves
+Subvocal Microphone
+Analyze Rating 6 [Copy Protection 6, Optimization 3, Registration]
+Encrypt Rating 6 [Copy Protection 6, Optimization 3, Registration]
== Gear ==
Autopicker Rating 6
Chisel
Contact Lenses Rating 3
+Vision Enhancement Rating 3
+Image Link
+Flare Compensation
Earbuds Rating 2
+Audio Enhancement Rating 3
+Select Sound Filter Rating 3
Fake SIN (Brian Ceran) Rating 4
+Fake License (Focus Permit) Rating 4
+Fake License (Weapon Permit) Rating 4
+Fake License (Bodyguard License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Drivers License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Vehicle Registration) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Stephen Franks) Rating 4
+Fake License (Focus Permit) Rating 4
+Fake License (Weapon Permit) Rating 4
+Fake License (Bodyguard License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Drivers License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Vehicle Registration) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Jonathan Drake) Rating 4
+Fake License (Focus Permit) Rating 4
+Fake License (Weapon Permit) Rating 4
+Fake License (Bodyguard License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Drivers License) Rating 4
+Fake License (Vehicle Registration) Rating 4
Maglock Passkey Rating 4
Maglock Sequencer Rating 4
Medkit Rating 6
Spare Clip (Browning Ultra-Power) x5
+Ammo: Stick-n-Shock (Heavy Pistols)
Tool Kit (Hardware)
Weapon Focus (Bonded Foci) (Sword) Rating 4
Wire Clippers
== Vehicles ==
BMW Blitzen 2050 (Combat Bike)
+Morphing License Plate
+Obsolescent
+Spoof Chip
+Vehicle Sensor
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Even with Warriors Way AND Optional Adept Geasa rules, the cold hard math is that you will miss out on some numbers if you don't take 1 ESS in Bioware, once you get Delta or even Alpha ware. Sorry, but them's the breaks.
Which is not that same thing as "you need to take it". You don't have to grab all the bonuses possible.
That said, I think the OP should clarify if he means a good adept, or the very best possible adept. Using the example A4BG posted, that's gotten to the point where improving that Blades pool wouldn't gain him much of anything - diminishing returns, basically.
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4 AGI, 4 STR, + up to 4 boxes of Damage Compensation, and/or 1 to favorite combat skill(s), or 2 REA (to passive dodge), or other flavors of your choice is pretty huge. And the thing is, using Bioware for what it does well allows you to use your Adept Powers for the unique flavor things only they can do.
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What powers you take depends on what kind of adept you want to be. While a Warrior or Athlete might get good mileage out of a bit of ware, the Artisan, Speaker, or Invisible adept really don't benefit from ware that much. So first tell us what role you are looking at, and then we can move on to the other things.
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I'm making him combat primary, infiltration secondary.
He told us...
And implicitly this means he has not yet chosen a way.
What he didn't tell us is if he has access to the ways, if he wants unnarmed, armed melee, thrown weapons, pistols, automatics, ...
And there is no theme yet.
Which is kinda "scroll through the character section take the first 5 adept builds 3 of them will have combat/infiltration and take your pick"
or likely more effective check out Umaros archetypes.
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Do we really need to get into the "to ware or not to ware" debate again in here? Some people are going to advise augmenting. Some aren't. Fine. Let's just answer the OP and not devolve into the same old cycle.
Combat primary, infiltration secondary, I would actually go for Invisible Way, see if your GM won't charge you for being part of a Way. The key to this kind of build is taking Magic 5, and no more than 2 Essence worth of ware.
Bio-compatibility: Bioware
Muscle Toner 2 or 4 (Restricted Gear)
Synaptic Boosters 1 at least, 2 is better.
Improved Ability: Infiltration
Improved Ability: primary combat ability
Unseen Hands (requires Invisible Way)
Kinesics - mostly for Con/Etiquette, which IMO are fundamental to infiltration
What weapons do you want to use?
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If I'ld use Bio compatibility and synaptic boosters Ild think about going the burnout's way to sayve the 10BP on biocompatibility...
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Do we really need to get into the "to ware or not to ware" debate again in here? Some people are going to advise augmenting. Some aren't. Fine. Let's just answer the OP and not devolve into the same old cycle.
If people wouldn't throw out their opinion as hard fact, it wouldn't have started going that route. All I ever did was say that it was my opinion that it's not necessary with a follow-up explaining why. Emsquared on the other hand came roaring in with what basically boils down to "you must take implants or you will suck" as though it were "true fact of the universe".
If you will look at the build I posted, you will see that I have a point that such is not strictly necessary (especially since it would be at least close to what the OP was asking for).
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Emsquared on the other hand came roaring in with what basically boils down to "you must take implants or you will suck" as though it were "true fact of the universe".
Demonstrate to me how you can get the same bonuses from 1 pt of MAG that you can from 1 pt of ESS (and therefore MAG), and then you can say I am wrong. I didn't say anything like; "you must take implants or you will suck" - this is like the stuff you say, A4BG: opinion. In fact all I said was:
...the cold hard math is that you will miss out on some numbers...
I left it where I thought it would do the OP the most good, no opinion, just math.
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Emsquared on the other hand came roaring in with what basically boils down to "you must take implants or you will suck" as though it were "true fact of the universe".
Demonstrate to me how you can get the same bonuses from 1 pt of MAG that you can from 1 pt of ESS (and therefore MAG), and then you can say I am wrong. I didn't say anything like; "you must take implants or you will suck". In fact all I said was:
You're of course ignoring the example posted because it is very, very good at combat and sneaking around without taking a single implant, and since that disproves the general "implants or bust" sentiment...
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If I'ld use Bio compatibility and synaptic boosters Ild think about going the burnout's way to sayve the 10BP on biocompatibility...
Burnout's benefit is not worth it compared to the discounts and Way-specific powers, especially Unseen Hands. 10 BP is not that bad.
Basically, if you want to take Synaptic Boosters, don't bother with Warrior's Way and if you want to be a fighter/infiltrator with Synaptic Boosters, just get Invisible Way.
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using Bioware for what it does well allows you to use your Adept Powers for the unique flavor things only they can do.
Pretty much this, solely from a number-centric optimization reading. Attention co-processor 3 and synthcardium 3 are not bad investments either compared to the related powers. Stuff like combat sense, Improved Ability and things like Kinesics and Unseen Hands are where the money is for adepts as they are not duplicable by ware (granted Kinesics can be replaced with Tailored Pheromones, but you can always stack those).
A4BG, your build isn't bad but ware can (mathematically) improve it.
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You're of course ignoring the example posted because it is very, very good at combat and sneaking around without taking a single implant, and since that disproves the general "implants or bust" sentiment...
I'm not ignoring anything, that sentiment is one you have imposed on me and others time and time again, I've only ever spoken about the math - as the OP can and should figure the rest out for himself, and fact is that build could be EVEN BETTER with 'ware. Now, can you please stop attacking me and derailing the thread? The community suffers for it.
To break it down for you, Eternal, you don't "need" to do anything with any build. It all depends on your table and what you want out of your character. The math is there, play with the builds for yourself. Despite what A4BG gets sooo indignant about, I have never ever said you can't have a fine Adept build without 'ware, and I've never ever said you must do anything with any build. Like I mentioned before though, taking some 'ware can even allow you to inject more flavor into your Adept, as you're not burning PP on Increased Reflexes or Improved Abilities, and can instead invest those into unique Adept Powers that can't be replicated by 'ware. Not all Adepts have to be Buddhist monks who refuse to taint themselves, in fact, most aren't and dare I say those who aren't can be more interesting characters than the stereotypical stale self-perfectionist - you need to determine what is right for you.
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A4BG, your build isn't bad but ware can (mathematically) improve it.
My whole point is that there is no need to have dice pools bigger than it has. I probably wouldn't ever actually play it because as I said, that dice pool for swinging the sword is disgusting.
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I'd personally throw in Surge for a extra pair of arms. I've developed a method of getting rid of the social penalty. Wear something really bulky.
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Have access to ways, looking at unarmed for cqc. Can also use geasas for powers. Was thinking magicians way, as I ddislike the warriors way specific power. I was going to you the geasa and ways to replace reliance on waste, but ill build two characters, one with ware, other without, and see how the balance out. Thanx for the different opionions and advice guys.
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If I'ld use Bio compatibility and synaptic boosters Ild think about going the burnout's way to sayve the 10BP on biocompatibility...
Burnout's benefit is not worth it compared to the discounts and Way-specific powers, especially Unseen Hands. 10 BP is not that bad.
Basically, if you want to take Synaptic Boosters, don't bother with Warrior's Way and if you want to be a fighter/infiltrator with Synaptic Boosters, just get Invisible Way.
Burnout's way costs the same as Biocompatibility but is better.
Rather then way X + Biocompatibility you should consider Burnout's way + Way of the ways (which is in the errata to the ways).
Effectively get's you biocompatibility + a way metamagicbonus of your choice + discount on any powers of choice.
If I can squeeze in 0.2 Essence of Bioware for the burnouts way (which is 1 point of Agility/Strength/Logic of your choice)
or
(Magic 5 means 2 discounted powers, the most expensive power are improved reflexes 3 with 4 power points + 1 power point in critical strike for 5 power points total (which is no advise to take but shall show you can get the maximum out of the discount) you have a discount of 5*0.25 => 1.25 which means you as well can get 1 point of stat boost or whatever you like... in this case the discount would be more usefull...
If you happen to pick only powers that cost 0.5 pp on the other hand you only get... a 0.25 power points discount, which is way worse then 0.2 Essence of Bioware (0.4 Essence of Cyberware btw)
so, no the discount is not per se better...
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A4BG, your build isn't bad but ware can (mathematically) improve it.
My whole point is that there is no need to have dice pools bigger than it has.
There is no objective standard for "need."
Also IIRC Way of the Adept errata is all unofficial by the author to clarify his intent that the line chose not to go with, so your GM may not accept it.
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A4BG, your build isn't bad but ware can (mathematically) improve it.
My whole point is that there is no need to have dice pools bigger than it has. I probably wouldn't ever actually play it because as I said, that dice pool for swinging the sword is disgusting.
Optimization isn't the same as normal character building.
Per definition of optimization, there isn't a standard of enough, nor of "don't play this because it's pools are disgustingly large"; it's not about whether or not you need more, but whether or not you can get more. Actual optimization is about one thing and one thing only: using the rules to get the best numbers. It is quite a departure from actual character building (And don't anyone get in a snit about that; in most systems nobody would show up at the table with a truly optimized character - and in almost every system, the GM's liable to smack you if you do. But if you play with a table full of optimizer, you often have little choice.).
They're not saying that the character isn't powerful, rather, they're saying that under the mathematical definition of optimization it's not the "best" - that a character can have higher numbers, the only thing the process of optimization that is being used as the barometer here cares about, another way. It's not about building good characters, at that point - just getting good numbers. Some people will attach good flavour to those numbers, but unless the optimization is being done from the perspective of "best possible within these restrictions due to character", it's very much a numbers first thing.
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I'm just saying that I wouldn't play it because of that. I'd feel guilty.
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I'm just saying that I wouldn't play it because of that. I'd feel guilty.
Which is fair, it's just not the subject. I've played in groups where I've had to play characters like that - and am very happy that my current games are not like that. Playing powerful characters is fun, certainly, but it can get in the way of what you actually want to do for a character arc.
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I want to optimize to have an adept that is useful to the party, I'm building flavor from the numbers, and my qualities. This character os a remake of the first I ever made, which I felt I got cheated on, because he was terrible at his role, then useless outside of his role after I used karma to make him competant in his role.
I want this one to be at least decent from the start, so I think I'll grab 1 our two essence of ware, and them go to town using geasa and ways to make up for the lost power points.
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I want to optimize to have an adept that is useful to the party, I'm building flavor from the numbers, and my qualities. This character os a remake of the first I ever made, which I felt I got cheated on, because he was terrible at his role, then useless outside of his role after I used karma to make him competant in his role.
I want this one to be at least decent from the start, so I think I'll grab 1 our two essence of ware, and them go to town using geasa and ways to make up for the lost power points.
If you're just looking for good or great, you don't need 'ware. You only need that for strict mathematical best. Build one without, too, and see iif you like it better for flavour.
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In a bit of shameless self promotion check out my archive of adepts for a broad range of adepts with all sorts of powers and abilities (some with ware and some without!)
And if you are happy with your build at the end I'd like to link it there if you are amenable? Share the wonder of the adept :D
As an aside, I've always felt that where adepts really shine is in taking powers that ware can't duplicate as is mentioned somewhere above (I'll admit that not all the adepts in the archive follow that rule by any means and they are hopefully designed to be good if not optimised!). Anyway, enjoy the build process!
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If you're just looking for good or great, you don't need 'ware. You only need that for strict mathematical best. Build one without, too, and see iif you like it better for flavour.
Thing is, if an Adept is using all his/her Power Points to try and be as good as the street sam (which he/she probably will not be in one way or another), you don't get to do anything fun with them. When I put 'ware in an Adept, it's so he doesn't have to struggle to be effective, he can then be effective and fun. I absolutely agree though that you should try your concept build both ways.
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Thank you very much for ask your input everyone, sorry I hasn't thanked you earlier, my computer died. I decided to go with an augmented adept, so I could maximize my bp usage. I need all the edge I can get for this character.
Speaking of, can any one give me some advice on how to fill out the rest of my first point of essence? I used 2 ranks each of alpha ware muscle toner and augmenter. Can any one suggest what I could fill out a second essence with too? I'm a primary combatant, and I want to be either tankier, better at melee, or better at utility. I have armor and IPs down, and want to avoid cyberlimbs. Thanks for any more help you choose to givr to a terrible optimizer.
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Reflex Recorder (it's way cheaper than Improved Ability, especially Improved Combat Ability)
Saving room for rating 4 of Muscle Toner/Augmentation (I don't actually recommend starting with Alphaware, I think upgrading to Alphaware is usually better).
Trauma Dampener
Pain Editor (this would be either post-chargen or require Restricted Gear)
Attention Coprocessor
If you are still Unarmed: Bone Lacing or Bone Density Augmentation. Either are good investments.
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Reflex Recorder (it's way cheaper than Improved Ability, especially Improved Combat Ability)
Saving room for rating 4 of Muscle Toner/Augmentation (I don't actually recommend starting with Alphaware, I think upgrading to Alphaware is usually better).
Trauma Dampener
Pain Editor (this would be either post-chargen or require Restricted Gear)
Attention Coprocessor
If you are still Unarmed: Bone Lacing or Bone Density Augmentation. Either are good investments.
Can't mix the Trauma Dampener with the Pain Editor.
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Reflex Recorder (it's way cheaper than Improved Ability, especially Improved Combat Ability)
Saving room for rating 4 of Muscle Toner/Augmentation (I don't actually recommend starting with Alphaware, I think upgrading to Alphaware is usually better).
Trauma Dampener
Pain Editor (this would be either post-chargen or require Restricted Gear)
Attention Coprocessor
If you are still Unarmed: Bone Lacing or Bone Density Augmentation. Either are good investments.
Can't mix the Trauma Dampener with the Pain Editor.
Trauma Dampeners decrease stun damage by 1 or convert 1 physical damage into stun damage when you receive 2 or more damage. Pain Editor lets you ignore penalties from stun damage, and does absolutely nothing on it's own to decrease damage received.
I don't see how these two don't mix when they clearly have two different effects.
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Reflex Recorder (it's way cheaper than Improved Ability, especially Improved Combat Ability)
Saving room for rating 4 of Muscle Toner/Augmentation (I don't actually recommend starting with Alphaware, I think upgrading to Alphaware is usually better).
Trauma Dampener
Pain Editor (this would be either post-chargen or require Restricted Gear)
Attention Coprocessor
If you are still Unarmed: Bone Lacing or Bone Density Augmentation. Either are good investments.
Can't mix the Trauma Dampener with the Pain Editor.
Trauma Dampeners decrease stun damage by 1 or convert 1 physical damage into stun damage when you receive 2 or more damage. Pain Editor lets you ignore penalties from stun damage, and does absolutely nothing on it's own to decrease damage received.
I don't see how these two don't mix when they clearly have two different effects.
Augmentation page 70
A trauma damper negates any dice pool modifiers an in-timidator may gain from inflicting pain on the subject. Given the
feedback-driven nature of the trauma damper, it cannot function
properly when used in conjunction with an activated pain editor.
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He is suggesting one or the other, not both.
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Yeah, although I probably should have put an "or" in there.
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What I did was go mystic adept which I think is alot more versatile than the standard adept build. However it depends on how your gm answers these 2 questions
1. With 6 magic and 3 magic put into magican what force can I cast (by book 6 with just stun, by faq 3 with stun drain)
2. Heightened concentration- is multiple sustaining spells considered the same modifer?
3. Heighted concentration - does the maximum negative that this can affect equal to full magic or adept magic?
Even assuming all negative answers heres what you do
Powers:
Mind over matter Log -> agil
Heightened concentration
.5 Power points of whatever you want to do with it
Take metagenic improve (log) with surge
Cast improve attribute (log) in the morning and negate the penaility with heightened concentration. Running around with a 10 LOG/10 Agil (for tests)
Put skills in favored method of combat and infilitration and medic
Hardware skills can be mostly skipped because even with 0 skill you have a dicepool of 9 thats better than most inflitration character's hardware skill
Take a sustaining focus for improved reflexes
Spells:
Increase attribute (log)
increase attribute (char) - you can drop the log boost and increase char for social situtations
Increased reflexes
Improved invis
Heal
Other spells as you wish
Final end:
infiltration of 10 + skill + gear with addition of improved invis
Combat of 10+skill+other bonuses
Utility spells
awesome medic
If GM rules for full force then add synatic boosters, gentic optimzation, and trama damper to get a logic of 12 with a magic split of 2-3
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What I did was go mystic adept which I think is alot more versatile than the standard adept build. However it depends on how your gm answers these 2 questions
1. With 6 magic and 3 magic put into magican what force can I cast (by book 6 with just stun, by faq 3 with stun drain)
2. Heightened concentration- is multiple sustaining spells considered the same modifer?
3. Heighted concentration - does the maximum negative that this can affect equal to full magic or adept magic?
Even assuming all negative answers heres what you do
Powers:
Mind over matter Log -> agil
Heightened concentration
.5 Power points of whatever you want to do with it
Take metagenic improve (log) with surge
Cast improve attribute (log) in the morning and negate the penaility with heightened concentration. Running around with a 10 LOG/10 Agil (for tests)
Put skills in favored method of combat and infilitration and medic
Hardware skills can be mostly skipped because even with 0 skill you have a dicepool of 9 thats better than most inflitration character's hardware skill
Take a sustaining focus for improved reflexes
Spells:
Increase attribute (log)
increase attribute (char) - you can drop the log boost and increase char for social situtations
Increased reflexes
Improved invis
Heal
Other spells as you wish
Final end:
infiltration of 10 + skill + gear with addition of improved invis
Combat of 10+skill+other bonuses
Utility spells
awesome medic
If GM rules for full force then add synatic boosters, gentic optimzation, and trama damper to get a logic of 12 with a magic split of 2-3
If someone wanted to play that character under me, I'd reach for Mirikon's phone book, smack them with it and tell them to go back to the drawing board. That is pure, unadulterated cheddar cheese.
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What I did was go mystic adept which I think is alot more versatile than the standard adept build. However it depends on how your gm answers these 2 questions
1. With 6 magic and 3 magic put into magican what force can I cast (by book 6 with just stun, by faq 3 with stun drain)
2. Heightened concentration- is multiple sustaining spells considered the same modifer?
3. Heighted concentration - does the maximum negative that this can affect equal to full magic or adept magic?
Even assuming all negative answers heres what you do
Powers:
Mind over matter Log -> agil
Heightened concentration
.5 Power points of whatever you want to do with it
Take metagenic improve (log) with surge
Cast improve attribute (log) in the morning and negate the penaility with heightened concentration. Running around with a 10 LOG/10 Agil (for tests)
Put skills in favored method of combat and infilitration and medic
Hardware skills can be mostly skipped because even with 0 skill you have a dicepool of 9 thats better than most inflitration character's hardware skill
Take a sustaining focus for improved reflexes
Spells:
Increase attribute (log)
increase attribute (char) - you can drop the log boost and increase char for social situtations
Increased reflexes
Improved invis
Heal
Other spells as you wish
Final end:
infiltration of 10 + skill + gear with addition of improved invis
Combat of 10+skill+other bonuses
Utility spells
awesome medic
If GM rules for full force then add synatic boosters, gentic optimzation, and trama damper to get a logic of 12 with a magic split of 2-3
If someone wanted to play that character under me, I'd reach for Mirikon's phone book, smack them with it and tell them to go back to the drawing board. That is pure, unadulterated cheddar cheese.
But optimized :) you will have issues with being an astral beacon until you can get masking.
If the gm gives postive answers to all those questions you could easily maintain 3 spells on yourself from the moment you wake up
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The anniversary edition is superseeding the faq, so force 6 spells are ok unless your GM explicitly overrules this.
You could aswell go for a magic of 5, get restricted gear and a sustaining focus of force 5, logic 5 (with 6 the spell won't work) and get your 10 logic that way.
You need 5 hits on the spell though, but you will probably not be smacked with a phonebook.
(with 3 points in magic, spellcasting 6 and a power focus 4 (restricted gear) you'll have 13 dice which is an expected value of 4.33 get a mentor spirit bear and you just got an average of 5 hits on that spell)
You can default on knowledge skills as well this way.
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I appreciate the suggestions for logic boosting, , buy I'm playing a phys ad and want cyber/bio suggestions. What would you guys put on a sam with 1 or 2 essence who needed to fill out his combat/infiltration ability, but had already gotten armor and IPs down? I might go with bone lacing, if the gm lets the damage stack with the weapon focus hardliners he is letting me use.
But that leaves plenyt of essence. I was thinking about supra thyroid. Would there be a better alternative?
Also, someone said alphaware isnt good for chargen, why is that? Especially since as an adept I have to sqeeze asmuch as I can into as few essence as possible.
Granted, ill likely use the logic suggestions with my next character, so thanks again.
Oh, and I forgot to mention, it's a 500 bp biuld, so I have more wiggle room than most adepts.
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Get a reflex recorder(unnarmed), restricted gear for a suprathyroid gland, muscle toner and muscle augmentation rating 2 each.
Get everything in standard grade and the bone lacing in secondhand alphaware, and the reflex recorder as alphaware,
with the burnouts way (optimize bioware) this should add up to nearly 2 Essence, you get 5 Strength and 5 Agility, since you are optimizing you'll go for ork.
Keep strength and Body at an uneven score.
If you want to get a way reduction on powers get way of the ways in addition to the burnouts way as I wrote earlier in this thread.
Cost: 15BP of positive qualities, 23.5BP in Nuyen ~2Essence
Gain: +1Body, +3Strength,+3Agility,+1Reaction, +1Unnarmed, +2P DV, +2 Impact Armor
improved reflexes 2 and critical strike 3 times are geased about 2.5 power points so you have half a PP left for whatever you like (Don't buy the last point of magic)
That gives you another +2 reaction.
Attributes will be somewhat like this:
Body 6(7)
Agility 5 (8)
Reaction 5(8)
Strength 6(9)
Charimsa 2
Inutition 2
Logic 2
Willpower 5
Magic 3
Ingame
With the first 13 Karma go buy yourself into a magical group for 5 Karma , go live on the street for 1 month as a initiation ordeal and initiate for 8 karma (group + ordeal discount 13*0.6 ~= 8)
choose an additional power point instead of a metamagic and buy more powers of your liking
initiate again choosing a powerpoint,
then buy a metamagic with karma directly and get adept centering
Go invest your karma on your magica abilities, while saving up the nuyen for better improvements
it dosn't have to be 280k for deltaware grade 4 muscle augmentation
you can get alphaware ceramic bones for 45k and then have 0.1 Essence to play around with thats cybereyes rating 1 for example
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Get a reflex recorder(unnarmed), restricted gear for a suprathyroid gland, muscle toner and muscle augmentation rating 2 each.
Get everything in standard grade and the bone lacing in secondhand alphaware, and the reflex recorder as alphaware,
with the burnouts way (optimize bioware) this should add up to nearly 2 Essence, you get 5 Strength and 5 Agility, since you are optimizing you'll go for ork.
Keep strength and Body at an uneven score.
If you want to get a way reduction on powers get way of the ways in addition to the burnouts way as I wrote earlier in this thread.
Personally I've always found the unarmed combat style to be too many points for little gain. With a monofilament whip you can almost practically ignore str you only lose 1 to 2 p of damage
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Get a reflex recorder(unnarmed), restricted gear for a suprathyroid gland, muscle toner and muscle augmentation rating 2 each.
Get everything in standard grade and the bone lacing in secondhand alphaware, and the reflex recorder as alphaware,
with the burnouts way (optimize bioware) this should add up to nearly 2 Essence, you get 5 Strength and 5 Agility, since you are optimizing you'll go for ork.
Keep strength and Body at an uneven score.
If you want to get a way reduction on powers get way of the ways in addition to the burnouts way as I wrote earlier in this thread.
Personally I've always found the unarmed combat style to be too many points for little gain. With a monofilament whip you can almost practically ignore str you only lose 1 to 2 p of damage
Progression, man. Element strike, critical strike, distant strike... There's so much you can do to an adept's unarmed attack that you can't effecively get with any other weapon.
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With Strength, bone density/bone lacing, martial arts, critical strike and the like you can outdamage everything. (Like the all famous drake adept with a DV of over 20)
With distance strike you get limited range and the bonus of only ranged defense and you are not hindered by enemys weapon reach anymore.
With martial arts and a unnarmed combat weapon, you can effectively damage/kill enemies that are attacking you on your defense.
With shock gloves you can also opt to go for a nonstrength way to do damage.
With Elemental strike sound you basically ignore armor, and the only thing that's helping is sound dampeners, that nearly no one has. (as well as silence spells)
Monowhip is not dual-wieldable, so you cannot do stuff like two weapon fighting with it's tremendous defense bonus.
Monowhip is exotic, so you can't specialize it (2 dice less that are in fact very cheap)
Unnarmed is no item so you can't be forced to give it away, you always have it with you and you can still kick, when your hands are bound.
Iirc Monowhip has some glitch rules that are not very forgiving.
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You can't dual-wield monowhips?!
Aw man!
There goes that character concept...I was gonna call him "Sushi" and pre-pay for a burial plot (and some tupperware).
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Where are you getting that you can't dual wield a mono-whip? I don't recall seeing anything of that nature in any books...
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Two Weapon Style requires reach 1 or 0.
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Two Weapon Style requires reach 1 or 0.
Okay...that cuts the Martial Arts maneuver out... It's not like you have to have the maneuver to dual wield.
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Two Weapon Style requires reach 1 or 0.
This is one of those "head scratch" rules.
I am guessing the intent was to keep people from using big weapons - so why not just say "only applicable with 1-handed weapons"?
I mean, you can definitely use two whips at the same time...I've seen it done...
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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Arsenal on two melee weapons:
In order to use two weapons in melee combat, each weapon
must have a Reach of 0 or 1.
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Arsenal on two melee weapons:
In order to use two weapons in melee combat, each weapon
must have a Reach of 0 or 1.
UmaroVI on two weapons:
Two Weapon Style requires reach 1 or 0.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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What about monofilament garrotes?
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That awkward moment when you have 12 bp and nothing you want to spend it on....
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Arsenal on two melee weapons:
In order to use two weapons in melee combat, each weapon
must have a Reach of 0 or 1.
UmaroVI on two weapons:
Two Weapon Style requires reach 1 or 0.
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Yes Umaro pointed out rules about the Two Weapon Style which is a Martial Arts maneuver and thus not the same thing as the rules governing the use of 2 weapons.
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That awkward moment when you have 12 bp and nothing you want to spend it on....
pistols 3?
always good to be able to sling a bit of lead when your punch just wont reach to the other side o the room :-)
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That awkward moment when you have 12 bp and nothing you want to spend it on....
I have never had BP with nothing I wanted to spend it on... :P
Champagne problems!
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
PS - Thrass: Ah. Mia culpa.
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Okay, spent the 12 on gear packs. Feel better rounded. More tools and stuff. I should have my build posted soon. hopefully I won't need to fix much. Not looking forward to it though. My computer died, so I have to do it all on my phone :/.
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You spent 12BP aka 60,000Nuyen on random gear because you didn't know what to do with it?
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Aparently, and when you put it that way, it sounds dubmer than I though. I was going to go back and remove overlaps and redundencies, but even if it saved me 6 bp, I don't need any of that crap. I might keep the 2 bp for a fall back id if I cause too much collateral damage.
I had bought whole bunch of b&e and covert ops gear. But I have base 14 dv fists, 21 unarmed dice, and smashing blow. If I need to get in to anything, 42 dv to a wall with average hits should do the trick. There is some one else on the team if they need it done quiet. And I'm dropping the influence group so I really have 20 points to spend. I'm t thinking a bit more dodge, and maybe some perception.. Shoot, it might not be optimal, but I could put a good bp or 2 on cred sticks for after game starts, and call it savings from previous runs.
Gar. Too many options.
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I'd suggest a rating one weapon focus if you don't have any-- Breaks right through Immunity To Normal Weapons. Just in case your GM decides to break out a 4e version of Mercurial... I need say no more.
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I'd suggest a rating one weapon focus if you don't have any-- Breaks right through Immunity To Normal Weapons. Just in case your GM decides to break out a 4e version of Mercurial... I need say no more.
Being unarmed he might get screwed out of using a weapon focus for his primary attack since some GMs (mainly ones you find on these forums and on Dumpshock) poo-poo using Hardliner Gloves as a weapon focus--or at least still getting your unarmed adept powers with them...
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I'd suggest a rating one weapon focus if you don't have any-- Breaks right through Immunity To Normal Weapons. Just in case your GM decides to break out a 4e version of Mercurial... I need say no more.
Being unarmed he might get screwed out of using a weapon focus for his primary attack since some GMs (mainly ones you find on these forums and on Dumpshock) poo-poo using Hardliner Gloves as a weapon focus--or at least still getting your unarmed adept powers with them...
Can I ask why Hardliners can't be a Weapon Focus, or is that just opening a huge can of wyrms?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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I'd suggest a rating one weapon focus if you don't have any-- Breaks right through Immunity To Normal Weapons. Just in case your GM decides to break out a 4e version of Mercurial... I need say no more.
Being unarmed he might get screwed out of using a weapon focus for his primary attack since some GMs (mainly ones you find on these forums and on Dumpshock) poo-poo using Hardliner Gloves as a weapon focus--or at least still getting your unarmed adept powers with them...
Can I ask why Hardliners can't be a Weapon Focus, or is that just opening a huge can of wyrms?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
It is a can of worms, but basically it boils down to the fact that some people get all bent out of shape at the thought of an adept using them and their unarmed-strike powers like an extra +1 damage really matters a hill of beans (heck, the ones who throw hissy fits over it don't even like it if someone forgoes the damage of the glove). They Rules Lawyer their butts off saying that because the chart listing them has a DV listed, than that overrules the normal unarmed DV regardless.
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No, no...
I definitely meant wyrms.
It is a huge can, after all...
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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or is that just opening a huge can of wyrms?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Some posters (mainly fanboys you find trolling every single thread that mentions "adept," "firewall," or "karma generation," even in passing, with inane ranting and raving about their persecution complex) are extremely touchy about their personal favorite flavor of questionably-rules-legal gouda.
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or is that just opening a huge can of wyrms?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
Some posters (mainly fanboys you find trolling every single thread that mentions "adept," "firewall," or "karma generation," even in passing, with inane ranting and raving about their persecution complex) are extremely touchy about their personal favorite flavor of questionably-rules-legal gouda.
Post reported.
While you may not like it, that is not an excuse for you to attack me. I was merely informing that some rule in that way so that the OP and the one mentioning the weapon focus would be aware, and then explaining the situation to the person who asked.
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If the Hardliner Glove fits, wear it.
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I'd suggest a rating one weapon focus if you don't have any-- Breaks right through Immunity To Normal Weapons. Just in case your GM decides to break out a 4e version of Mercurial... I need say no more.
Being unarmed he might get screwed out of using a weapon focus for his primary attack since some GMs (mainly ones you find on these forums and on Dumpshock) poo-poo using Hardliner Gloves as a weapon focus--or at least still getting your unarmed adept powers with them...
Can I ask why Hardliners can't be a Weapon Focus, or is that just opening a huge can of wyrms?
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
It is a can of worms, but basically it boils down to the fact that some people get all bent out of shape at the thought of an adept using them and their unarmed-strike powers like an extra +1 damage really matters a hill of beans (heck, the ones who throw hissy fits over it don't even like it if someone forgoes the damage of the glove). They Rules Lawyer their butts off saying that because the chart listing them has a DV listed, than that overrules the normal unarmed DV regardless.
The actual problem is that the tradeoff between weapon adepts and unarmed adepts is all the different attack-modifying powers unarmed adepts can get versus the extra dice that weapon adepts get. Letting unarmed adepts get both means that you're either kicking armed adepts in the nuts, balance wise, or letting them use the unarmed adepts powers - which just makes everything the same, and that kinda sucks.
Umaro: Uncalled for, man. Seriously.
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Some posters (mainly fanboys you find trolling every single thread that mentions "adept," "firewall," or "karma generation," even in passing, with inane ranting and raving about their persecution complex) are extremely touchy about their personal favorite flavor of questionably-rules-legal gouda.
Terms of Service rule 7 states:
7. Be constructive
When you post, add something substantive to conversations (“funny” counts as “substantive”). Please do not post without contributing to the forum, or the discussion at hand. If your posts add nothing, you may be wasting people’s time and our resources. Do not post here if your only intention is to be confrontational. This includes behavior considered trolling by the Mod/Admin team. Problem posts will be reviewed on a case-by-case basis. Naturally, the odd frivolous post won’t attract attention, but systematic behavior, picking fights, and thread hijacking will be addressed with warnings and Bans as necessary. Posts may be moved or deleted at the Moderator/Admin’s discretion in these cases (see Rule 12).
This post has the appearance of being confrontational, which is confirmed by a subsequent post. Also, it is a post about personalities rather than arguments, putting it in violation of Rule 1.
Umaro IV, this is your first warning.
Jason H.