Shadowrun
Shadowrun Play => Character creation and critique => Topic started by: cjubmavin on <01-27-13/1918:44>
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the race kender or quickling
:o
based on the drawf bod agi rea str cha int loc wil ini
bp25 2/7(10) 1/6(9) 1/5(7) 3/8(12) 1/6(9) 1/6(9) 1/6(9) 2/7(10) 2/11(16)thermographic vision, +2 dice for body tests to resist pathogens and toxins
things needed to change; -1 on bod, -3 on str, -1 on loc, -2 on wil, +1 on agi, +2 on rea, change thermographic vision for low light, -hgt to 1.2m, -wgt to 40 kgs, celerity cost 5bp, poor self control compulsive kleptoemanie +5bp, neoteny cost 10 bp, remove +2 dice for body tests to resist pathogens and toxins +20 bp
based on the gnome 2/7(10) 1/6(9) 1/5(7) 3/8(12) 1/6(9) 1/6(9) 1/6(9) 2/7(10) 2/11(16)
bp 25 arcane arrester, neoteny, thermographic vision
things needed to change; remove arcane arrester get 25 bp, -1 on bod, -3 on str, -1 on loc, -2 on wil, +1 on agi, +2 on rea, change thermographic vision for low light, -hgt to 1.2m, -wgt to 40 kgs, celerity cost 5bp, poor self control compulsive kleptoemanie +5bp,
based on the elf bp 30 1/6(9) 2/7(10) 1/6(9) 1/6(9) 3/8(12) 1/6(9) 1/6(9) 1/6(9) 2/12(18)
low light vision
things needed to change; -1 on loc and wil, +1 on rea, -hgt to 1.2m, -wgt to 40 kgs, celerity cost 5bp, poor self control compulsive kleptoemanie +5bp, neoteny cost 10bp
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Wtf is a Kender?
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I think it's a race from the Dragonlance setting of D&D.
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Not really feeling it as a Shadowrun Race. Shadowrun metatype varients tend, for the most part, to be based around real world mythology.
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Please Nooooooo H
Omfg....Deity
Kender contradict Darwinism !
They will never survive (not even 1 Week) in the Dystopia of Shadowrun
(Oh,Hello Mr. Mean Troll ,I'm not afraid of You.
Ohhh, why is Your Comlink in my Pocket?
Why're you so angry, its only fun Nohhhh,Please don't*Sound of a tiny Neck snapping*....)
They're a big Nuisance(in a way worse than Ghouls)
Hobbits are something diifferent though!
They could adapt .I'm playing two different Hobbits myself
with a Dance in the Shire
Medicineman
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But everyone likes Kender! ::) (eye rolling smileys repeat on for a finite, but uncountable length ...)
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But everyone likes Kender! ::) (eye rolling smileys repeat on for a finite, but uncountable length ...)
No...no they don't. Kill it with fire, unload with that full-auto Panther someone came up with on the corpse, and follow it up with launching what's left into the sun.
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Wtf is a Kender?
Something that needs to be killed with fire on sight.
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Wtf is a Kender?
Something that needs to be killed with fire on sight.
I stand by my sentiments. :P
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Wtf is a Kender?
Something that needs to be killed with fire on sight.
They might even steal your kerosene, making the whole thing even easier!
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.....oO( Gully Dwarfes)
HeyaHeyaHejaja
Medicineman
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But everyone likes Kender! ::) (eye rolling smileys repeat on for a finite, but uncountable length ...)
No...no they don't. Kill it with fire, unload with that full-auto Panther someone came up with on the corpse, and follow it up with launching what's left into the sun.
Feck +1, no Feck that +10 My Stream of Conciousness was OmNomNomNomTurkeyandPorkPatesandwich3daystillpaydaycheerleadersis5theditionoutyet?catwantsmysandwichbribecatOmNomNomForumsthenMinecraftkylieminongue KENDER KILL IT WITH FIRE NOW
Kill the Kender because being a Dick at a gaming table isn`t "getting into character" its spotlight hogging mental masturbation that pisses off the rest of the players. Granted YMMV and comic relief characters may have added a lot of happy stories and memories to you and your friends evenings and if so I appologise from the bottom of my black scaly heart. Perhaps it`s just that the very few players I have met who gravitate toward Kender seem to be the same ones that play "funny" Malkavians.
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.....oO( Gully Dwarfes)
HeyaHeyaHejaja
Medicineman
They're not as bad as Kender. A Gully Dwarf is just a Dwarf that's rather unintelligent and lacking in hygiene.
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If someone wanted to play a kender or a gully dwarf in a game I was running, or playing in, I would say, "Hell NO. Play a lesbian elf stripper ninja or a quad-armed fomori changeling with astral hazing, like a normal player."
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.....oO( Gully Dwarfes)
HeyaHeyaHejaja
Medicineman
They're not as bad as Kender. A Gully Dwarf is just a Dwarf that's rather unintelligent and lacking in hygiene.
So, basically dwarven neckbeards.
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no i was thinking what do i need to add or take away from it
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from what i can think of kender are a race offshoot of the hafling, i think they had no fear of anythingand they can and will go into a dragons lair just to got some shinny stuff, and not to sell it
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from what i can think of kender are a race offshoot of the hafling, i think they had no fear of anythingand they can and will go into a dragons lair just to got some shinny stuff, and not to sell it
Which means that were they to exist in the Sixth World, they would die out in less than a year. And that there would be much testimonial on how they taste with ketchup.
In all seriousness, there's a few problems with trying to bring these guys into Shadowrun. The first is that they just flat out don't fit the setting. Another big one is that playing one will, in a Shadowrun game, inevitably become highly disruptive at the table because the nature of them would pretty much botch every run there is and bring down some pretty serious heat on the team.
And on a related note: "Race" is not the term for what the metatypes and metavariants are. And yes, it does matter.
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Quiet true. Potentially very disruptive and not really fitting the setting.
Also, as rhat said, metatype/varient is not the same as race in the ethnicity meaning. You can have anglo, chinese, japanese, irish etc elves. Then comes the next question, how do they define themselves? Irish first then elf, or elf first then irish? Or does religion trump both? The real world overlayed with additional complexities of the awakening make for a facinating setting... And one which differs in many ways from your traditional fantasy rpg.
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Then comes the next question, how do they define themselves? Irish first then elf, or elf first then irish? Or does religion trump both?
Which, of course, given the whole Tír na nÓg thing, gets to be a pretty interesting question.
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Feel a bit harsh now.
Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.
Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania. I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.
Hoop this helps...
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Feel a bit harsh now.
Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.
Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania. I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.
Hoop this helps...
Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even. Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick. BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.
If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.
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Feel a bit harsh now.
Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.
Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania. I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.
Hoop this helps...
Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even. Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick. BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.
If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.
Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."
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Hmmm... The higher willpower (3-8) should either come with that restriction or the higher cost. Not sure about the infected restriction though, gives them some. Immunity against becoming ghouls...
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Feel a bit harsh now.
Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.
Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania. I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.
Hoop this helps...
Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even. Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick. BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.
If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.
Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."
Eh. I'd have to test it to know for certain, but seeing as they'd be taking hits to other Drain attributes (limiting tradition/stream options), I expect a BP premium would likely be balance enough. But it's very difficult to say for certain in the abstract, so you very well might be right.
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Feel a bit harsh now.
Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.
Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania. I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.
Hoop this helps...
Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even. Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick. BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.
If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.
Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."
Eh. I'd have to test it to know for certain, but seeing as they'd be taking hits to other Drain attributes (limiting tradition/stream options), I expect a BP premium would likely be balance enough. But it's very difficult to say for certain in the abstract, so you very well might be right.
Well, really, you'd also need to add in part of the Uneducated quality, modified to completely block those skills rather than just doubling the cost, since those are skills that require concentration, and they are BAD BAD BAD at concentrating.
Then again, I'm so biased it's not funny, and just don't think that kenders should be PCs...period.
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Feel a bit harsh now.
Kenders, as a house rule which remains in your house and never, ever, leaves.... sure why not.
Dwarf Metavarient, found in europe mostly, make them -1 Body and -1 Strength, +1 Dex, +1 Reflex compared to standard dwarf metatype, and compulsive behaviour kleptomania. I wouldn't worry about the Fearless part, it could be unbalancing, and as a dwarf variant, they get the high willpower anyway.
Hoop this helps...
Knock of a point of Logic and/or Intuition for extra Willpower, even. Neotony, due to it's effects on overall durability, isn't a bad pick. BP Cost, though, cannot be determined by summing up the base cost with the positive and negative qualities - Oni, for example, has only a negative quality added yet costs 5BP more than the base.
If going for the boosted Willpower, the BP cost should be substantial because that's assistance with Drain and Fading that nothing else really gets.
Maybe add in the restriction "May never possess the Magician, Adept, Mystic Adept, Drake, Technomancer or any Infected Qualities."
Eh. I'd have to test it to know for certain, but seeing as they'd be taking hits to other Drain attributes (limiting tradition/stream options), I expect a BP premium would likely be balance enough. But it's very difficult to say for certain in the abstract, so you very well might be right.
Well, really, you'd also need to add in part of the Uneducated quality, modified to completely block those skills rather than just doubling the cost, since those are skills that require concentration, and they are BAD BAD BAD at concentrating.
Then again, I'm so biased it's not funny, and just don't think that kenders should be PCs...period.
Yes, but this is the "all disclaimers apply" phase.
In any case, I'm talking about a straight BP premium on the metavariant. Requiring a roll to be able to concentrate might be a good addition, too - though, what would the roll be? Maybe just apply the effects of Bad Luck to anything requiring concentration?
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Self-control / composure roll?
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Self-control / composure roll?
Problem is, the Willpower bonus would make them better at that.
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Self-control / composure roll?
Problem is, the Willpower bonus would make them better at that.
Make it threshold 4 composure, and make it a specific exception that Edge is NOT allowed for that test.
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I was thinking that (post actually posting) either a 3 threshold or...
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Self-control / composure roll?
Problem is, the Willpower bonus would make them better at that.
Make it threshold 4 composure, and make it a specific exception that Edge is NOT allowed for that test.
Possible, but I do think making glitches more likely might be more amusing.
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Wasn't there a -2 Willpower involved in the build? Meaning that 3-8(12) isn't the situation but 1-5(7) for Willpower instead?
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Wasn't there a -2 Willpower involved in the build? Meaning that 3-8(12) isn't the situation but 1-5(7) for Willpower instead?
That wouldn't be a good way to model the traits.
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Actually, thinking on it. Give them a 4 natural maximum on Willpower, and make them make a threshold 5 Composure test to use any skill requiring concentration with failure on the Composure test resulting in 1-3 being glitches on the skill test.
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Actually, thinking on it. Give them a 4 natural maximum on Willpower, and make them make a threshold 5 Composure test to use any skill requiring concentration with failure on the Composure test resulting in 1-3 being glitches on the skill test.
Problem is that the higher Willpower is meant to model their lack of survival instincts, aka fearlessness.
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Its a keep it simple scenario. Go with a hurdle. That way you can keep the whole 'can't be a mage etc' as well.
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Let's not forget that the Kender date back to 1st ed D&D where dwarves couldn't be mages either.
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The real problem is not a lack of focus when something amuses them they can stick with it, it is their constant curosty and that when they do something they focus on it 100% IE when the pick something up it has 100% of their attion then they notice something else it gets 100% of their focus so they forget about the first thing and place it in their pockets.
Now in some groups or done right they can be good charters, but often some one is over disruptive with what they do as a kender. Playing a kender right in a maner that is not disruptive to an over all group is realy hard to do.
In shadow run they whould be overly curious and get themselfs and the group killed.
On the pluss side if you are ever short on ammo in a run ask the kender for it and he will probaly have it pre-loaded in magazines just like the ones you lost.
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Let's not forget that the Kender date back to 1st ed D&D where dwarves couldn't be mages either.
Nope
The Dragonlance Modules are Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (I've got them here beside me ! )
with an Advanced Dyne
Medicineman
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Let's not forget that the Kender date back to 1st ed D&D where dwarves couldn't be mages either.
Nope
The Dragonlance Modules are Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (I've got them here beside me ! )
with an Advanced Dyne
Medicineman
advanced dungeons and dragons is often refered to as 1 ed, as is anything from before second eddtion D&D. Even thou they had both D&D and AD&D before.
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I don't happen to have any of the source material from AD&D only 3.0 and 3.5. Could someone PM me a link to a PDF source for and AD&D material?
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Let's not forget that the Kender date back to 1st ed D&D where dwarves couldn't be mages either.
Nope
The Dragonlance Modules are Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (I've got them here beside me ! )
with an Advanced Dyne
Medicineman
advanced dungeons and dragons is often refered to as 1 ed, as is anything from before second eddtion D&D. Even thou they had both D&D and AD&D before.
The 2nd ed. books I had said "Advanced" as well.
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Let's not forget that the Kender date back to 1st ed D&D where dwarves couldn't be mages either.
Nope
The Dragonlance Modules are Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (I've got them here beside me ! )
with an Advanced Dyne
Medicineman
Whoops, you are completely correct (and I should have remembered seeing as Dragonlance was why I bought 1st ed AD&D
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What are the names of some of those AD&D books containing Kender stats?
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"I say we take off and nuke the entire site from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."
"Frakkin' A!"
"Hold on a second. This installation has a substantial dollar value attached to it."
"They can bill me."
"Okay, I know this is an emotional moment for all of us. I know that. But let's not make snap judgments, please. This is clearly an important species we're dealing with and I don't think that you or I, or anybody, has the right to arbitrarily exterminate them."
"Wrong."
-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist
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What are the names of some of those AD&D books containing Kender stats?
The setting books for dragonlance, in any book. They where made for that setting.
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What are the names of some of those AD&D books containing Kender stats?
The setting books for dragonlance, in any book. They where made for that setting.
And ONLY exist in that setting (and some home-brew settings I've seen).
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What are the names of some of those AD&D books containing Kender stats?
The setting books for dragonlance, in any book. They where made for that setting.
And ONLY exist in that setting (and some home-brew settings I've seen).
And that is one setting too many.
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What are the names of some of those AD&D books containing Kender stats?
The setting books for dragonlance, in any book. They where made for that setting.
And ONLY exist in that setting (and some home-brew settings I've seen).
And that is one setting too many.
I've seen a few people who could do it right, but they are by far in the minority. The race works fine in the setting they're in, but outside of that, heck no. Too disruptive most of the time unless you get one of those rare folks who can do it right.
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Well yea they where created by the creators of that setting.
What is realy amazing about them is that they some how manage to live threw getting whole parties wiped. There survial power is amazing.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kender
http://www.kencyclopedia.com/kender/general/
http://merrin.tripod.com/kender.html
I could not find the old order of the top not site. Where the kender knigts keep there logs.
Funny thing thou I recently had some one tell me they where told they where the same thing as quicklings.
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What are the names of some of those AD&D books containing Kender stats?
The setting books for dragonlance, in any book. They where made for that setting.
And ONLY exist in that setting (and some home-brew settings I've seen).
And that is one setting too many.
I've seen a few people who could do it right, but they are by far in the minority. The race works fine in the setting they're in, but outside of that, heck no. Too disruptive most of the time unless you get one of those rare folks who can do it right.
You're more likely to find someone able to do Chaotic Evil or Lawful Good right.
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What are the names of some of those AD&D books containing Kender stats?
The setting books for dragonlance, in any book. They where made for that setting.
And ONLY exist in that setting (and some home-brew settings I've seen).
And that is one setting too many.
I've seen a few people who could do it right, but they are by far in the minority. The race works fine in the setting they're in, but outside of that, heck no. Too disruptive most of the time unless you get one of those rare folks who can do it right.
You're more likely to find someone able to do Chaotic Evil or Lawful Good right.
Well, I don't mess with Chaotic Evil, but I like to think I get Lawful Good at least close. I will admit that it was a Dragonlance character that I kind of use as my basis to draw from...Sturm.
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See, I'm the opposite. I can't stand to do LG, but I'm fairly proud of the fact that I'm able to do CE in a mixed party without causing intra-PC fighting. Of course, my inspiration for CE comes more from drow and succubi than the idiot orc barbarian who slaughters everything in his path or the kleptomaniac rogue who steals from his own party members.
Unfortunately, most people who play LG, CE, and ESPECIALLY kenders take it as a license to be a dick.
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Of course, my inspiration for CE comes more from drow and succubi
Drow are/should be Lawful Evil by Definition
With a Dance in Alignment
Medicineman
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Of course, my inspiration for CE comes more from drow and succubi
Drow are/should be Lawful Evil by Definition
With a Dance in Alignment
Medicineman
Why? They worship a Chaotic Evil goddess, and while there are laws and rules in their culture, the highest rule is "Don't get caught," and contracts are only valid so long as they are advantageous. Sounds like Chaos to me.
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because its a Lawful Society of Evil Beings
an Alignment Discussion in a Shadowrun Forum.....refreshing and funny at a Saturday Morning
HeyaheyaHeyaJa
Medicineman
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See, I'm going to have to disagree with you on the 'lawful' part there. Yes, there are laws, but it is fully expected that everyone will break those laws, and any social conventions that go with them, at the drop of a hat if it suits their purposes. The only law that matters is "Don't get caught." This is not an example of a lawful society. Remember, having a class structure does not make you Lawful, especially when the structure is ignored when inconvenient.
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That alone also don't make one chaotic. If people are EXPECTED to do something and most times than nothing they are going to act according to this expectation... not very chaotic, even when the expectation is breaking the law.
That being said, I just hate D&D alignments. Not only they are completely unrealistic, boring and limit role-playing (instead of encouraging it), they also make a hell of a job in cutting cardboard characters.
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That alone also don't make one chaotic. If people are EXPECTED to do something and most times than nothing they are going to act according to this expectation... not very chaotic, even when the expectation is breaking the law.
That being said, I just hate D&D alignments. Not only they are completely unrealistic, boring and limit role-playing (instead of encouraging it), they also make a hell of a job in cutting cardboard characters.
I perfer the PB aligment system, as it lets you pick one that fits how you want to play your charter, and is allot more clearly difened as what each aliement whould be able to justfy. It more repesents the charters moral code.
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That being said, I just hate D&D alignments. Not only they are completely unrealistic, boring and limit role-playing (instead of encouraging it), they also make a hell of a job in cutting cardboard characters.
Except they point out in the books that alignment isn't a 'straight jacket' but rather a guide as to the moral and ethical values of the character.
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Poor choice for that, either way. When you can read a character's abstraction In character and act based on that... D&D has many, many problematic issues. But by far alignment is the worst (and most useless).
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Poor choice for that, either way. When you can read a character's abstraction In character and act based on that... D&D has many, many problematic issues. But by far alignment is the worst (and most useless).
In your opinion. Your opinion is not the "True Fact of the Cosmos".
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Can I say anything other than my opinion? I don't remember claiming the Herald of the True Fact of the Cosmos title on my last posts.
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Ooh, are we claiming titles now? Can I be the Herald of Galactus? I'd look great in all silver...
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Ooh, are we claiming titles now? Can I be the Herald of Galactus? I'd look great in all silver...
Careful.. they don't al get to be silver. Hate to be the one that randomly comes out as baby-puke orange or fluro pink...
That said, I am a strong believer in not putting character personalities into the rules system. Even if they are just guides, once in the rules they restrict the players from actually playing their character. Heck, I don't even like Natures and Paths of Humanity etc in OWOD and they were far less restrictive. Yet another reason to avoid AD&D...
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kender
http://www.kencyclopedia.com/kender/general/
http://merrin.tripod.com/kender.html
These links were very helpful. With 1 ISBN I found the AD&D rules for Kender PCs which gave me a better perspective on what the essence of Kender is.
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The essence of a Kender is a "Taschenlampenfallenlasser " !
(How to Translate,Hmmm,Well....)
A Taschenlampenfallenlasser is a Char(Player !!) who endangers the whole Group for the sake of
His own Amusement with the lame excuse that he is only acting out His Char
HougH!
Medicineman