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Human Meta-Human Vampric Virus

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bannockburn

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« Reply #60 on: <06-21-13/0919:01> »
My 'easy' fix is that you need revitalization for essence drained in any way, or to fill up an essence hole.
75k base cost +20k (per additional month) per 0.1 and a month time, as well as an availability of 12 makes it difficult enough to achieve. On the other hand, I also allow this for ghoul survivors, so not exactly a nerf.
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Icy

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« Reply #61 on: <06-21-13/1305:40> »
My 'easy' fix is that you need revitalization for essence drained in any way, or to fill up an essence hole.
75k base cost +20k (per additional month) per 0.1 and a month time, as well as an availability of 12 makes it difficult enough to achieve. On the other hand, I also allow this for ghoul survivors, so not exactly a nerf.

I support this. Imho, cellular repair should not be able to repair lost essence anyways. It repairs your cells in a pure physical, not metaphysical way.

Btw, I would also allow to raise the maximum for magic/resonance again after healing your essence. If I remember correctly, the maximum reduction remains in place even if your essence is healed by revitalization.
I mean, it's not really overpowered to allow your mage to raise his magic again after he spent all this money and time.

RHat

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« Reply #62 on: <06-21-13/1511:02> »
It's also a bit stupid, IMO, that you can't use revitalization or cellular repair for this essence loss (should you survive and not be a flesh-eating citizen), while Essence drained by a vampire can be healed with cellular repair for a mere 15k. o_O
Yeah...THAT is something I'm looking to nerf. A lot. I just haven't found a good way just yet.

That seems like a good way to set a vamp up with a cult of Renfields.  Especially if they eventually become psychologically dependent on the relationship.
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Crunch

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« Reply #63 on: <06-21-13/1546:29> »
It's also a bit stupid, IMO, that you can't use revitalization or cellular repair for this essence loss (should you survive and not be a flesh-eating citizen), while Essence drained by a vampire can be healed with cellular repair for a mere 15k. o_O
Yeah...THAT is something I'm looking to nerf. A lot. I just haven't found a good way just yet.

Why not a Magico-Medico breakthrough and a new technology to repair ghoul related essence loss? Maybe tie into big Ds will.

Parker

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« Reply #64 on: <06-21-13/1658:02> »
It's also a bit stupid, IMO, that you can't use revitalization or cellular repair for this essence loss (should you survive and not be a flesh-eating citizen), while Essence drained by a vampire can be healed with cellular repair for a mere 15k. o_O
Yeah...THAT is something I'm looking to nerf. A lot. I just haven't found a good way just yet.

Why not a Magico-Medico breakthrough and a new technology to repair ghoul related essence loss? Maybe tie into big Ds will.

Perhaps because that would allow the Horrors to ultimately win.  Remember, the original function of the HMHVV magical virus back in the 4th-World was to create foot-soldiers for their cronies and spread general terror in the land.  Allowing vampires and ghouls to become targets of either pity or bounty-hunting allows them to succeed. >:( 
That is why the Catalyst writers now made Infected as a playable option.  Why players wouldn't have to abandon characters bitten/infected during game-play and open up new venues for GMs story-wise. 8)
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Parker

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« Reply #65 on: <06-21-13/1705:14> »
Ooooh, as if Freddy wasn't bad enough. :D
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Boomstick

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« Reply #66 on: <06-21-13/2138:02> »
Do you actually know how the whole disease resistance HMHVV thing works?
I do know all about the disease test and power escalation. Had a pretty hard time to figure out some facts on the first reading, as I remember of it. But actually, you don't see it in the right way. Which is called player metagame thinking. Knowing the rules, there are ways to optimize the rolls you will do by using edge at the good times. Like for exemple, always keeping 1 point for the tenth roll. Cause if you reduce it to zero it will not keep on killing you dry of essence (become something as different is as becoming a vampire, some kind of death, in some way).

If you are a well bred troll, with a little luck but no Edge, you can roll a mean of 4 hits by throws. Indeed you will escalate to great powers but if you use Edge, you are more likely to get the 8 hits (are there exploding 6 in SR5? Not sure, still, there were in sR4) . I admit you will probably lose much Essence and actually I went too far saying that only weak orks and trolls could be affected, I know the process but took a different basis for the hits average;) But that is not fatality, there is still a possibility (even needing a lot of luck is enough. Other versions are meant to kill). Penetration is bad, when it comes to injection vector, only for filters and so on. Actually, it was maybe better to have contact, because as such, chem protection mods were relevant. If this is injection, they are not, as being hurt means roughly that protection was bypassed (indeed, there are wounds without damaging the outside shell but they are rarer., even more when talking about claws and bites..)


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Even better, if you somehow survive and later on are unlucky enough to get re-infected you don't start counting up to 1 essence from zero, you pick up where you left off before. Did you eke through with 0.8 essence loss last time? Well this time you get two failures before you become a ghoul.
If you let yourself being caught in such a dire situation two times, you deserve to die. I prefer being caught by cops, Mafia or corps that feeding ghouls and become one of them (if I can't fight them).

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Your average troll has a bod of 7 and your average ork has a nice big 6. Pharmaceuticals are useless and everything else provides 3 less dice bonus. Even with the unofficial errata I think you'll see plenty of non-weak troll and ork ghouls out there. The big thing is changing the vector.
Well Six hits were not so unusual on my games, for pools of 10 or 12. Maybe not for these "average" 7 and 6. And I would prefer it to stay a true menace that even big luck has difficulties to handle, than just being a brute tank allowing to resist, even at a cost. Because it push these tanks in the path of getting sturdier and stupider instead of getting smarter.
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If you go anywhere with millspec armor and a minigun you're going to get into a fight with someone that's for sure.
I don't like overly long gags, but anyway, you're going to Redmond, so you're going to get into a fight with someone for sure;)

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Do you always have the choice? Frack no.
Indeed, and that's what makes one of their points. They are not overpowered but still really dangerous by their very existence if you don't take precautions; Learning to PCs to backup instead of blasting the door, and to come back once prepared is a good thing.
I once had my players pursuing some guy whose escape route went through a ghoul nest, and he used some kind of magic to stay undetected from the ghouls and to decoy on the PCs. When they understood what this old squat was, they backed up in seconds. They prefered to lose the guy and tail him later, than losing their life. It allowed some nice planning to get back to the nest and retrieve some material link one of PC shot out of the mage.
Indeed you have not always the choice off backing up, because when the ghoul which is trying to crunch your neck is on your back, you can say you're into it. But usually you don't find ghouls in your closet. Else you are not living at the good place. So if you are jumped upon by ghouls, that means you went deliberately to an area with them. In that case, bring firepower, and extra precautions and friends. And firethrowers, Napalm and cluster bombs. And landmines. Or/and your hazmat.
Else, don't complain;)

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Or maybe the ghouls come to you while you're in the shower/out to a movie/ clubbing.
If you are the victim character from a bad flick, you don't deserve to die (not necessarily) but you will.

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You're making the assumption that you have the situation totally under control at all times. Being a runner means you have to take risks.
Less that than knowing to say "shit happens" and backing up. Because will there are millions possibilities you don't anticipate, actually there are not million of possibilities they will fall from the sky onto you. You will usually be able to detect them before and even if not in position to dispose of them, you will be in for using your nice brain to get afraid and start to run, if you are smart enough.

But I recognize that is rare for players of RPG to understand they don't have to fight to death and so on when they meet ennemies. Went through a lot of cases like that.

Perhaps because that would allow the Horrors to ultimately win.  Remember, the original function of the HMHVV magical virus back in the 4th-World was to create foot-soldiers for their cronies and spread general terror in the land.  Allowing vampires and ghouls to become targets of either pity or bounty-hunting allows them to succeed. >:( 
That is why the Catalyst writers now made Infected as a playable option.  Why players wouldn't have to abandon characters bitten/infected during game-play and open up new venues for GMs story-wise. 8)
Don't understand that. To feed on the feelings, they (Horrors) have to be there. Not while mana level is so low, whatever the amount of "feeling in the air". Or am I mistaken? Also did not think that positive feelings (like compassion/pity) could feed them. They were not called horrors for nothing. If it was possible, then a lot more would have a symbiotic relationship with us, caring for us. And playing Cupid.
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The more it changes, the more it is not the same  any more...:P

Icy

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« Reply #67 on: <06-21-13/2151:57> »
Remember, the original function of the HMHVV magical virus back in the 4th-World was to create foot-soldiers for their cronies and spread general terror in the land.

Do you have a source for this? I studied the Earthdawn books of a friend to get infos on HMHVV. The only thing I've found is Eletheria, who seems to be the first banshee. It's not stated if she was turned by the Horrors by metahuman blood magic though and the text implies both possibilities. I would really appreciate further Earthdawn sources on this.

FastJack

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« Reply #68 on: <06-22-13/0822:25> »
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