[ImaginalDisc]

One of my players has a character with chemistry. He'd like to make chemicals from scratch. However, I cannot find any references to how much things COST to make.

The build/repair table on 146 is no help.

[Novocrane]

For now, I'd make it roughly equivalent to purchase price, but without the issues of having to find a seller.

[ImaginalDisc]

If the cost of building things was the same as the selling price there would be no economy.

[Vandarl]

Sometimes you are fighting economy of scale. Fuchi makes a fortune selling stuff in part because they save money making millions of an item. That said, lots of things probably could be made cheaper. Currently, no clear rules on it, but One Day it will be in a supplement.

Overall, having access to things tough to get, or things with ho 'paper trail' is an advantage.

[ImaginalDisc]

On discussing it with the player, we settled on 25% of the cost of the final product. That's the base fencing value, so even if a character spends all their time as a chemist making tons of valuable stuff, they'd need excellent social skills (or highly loyal contacts) and lots of free time to make some money on the margins.

You know, like real world black market merchants.

[WellsIDidIt]

Remember the cost for a corp to make a million batches of product x and the cost for a runner to make a dozen doses of product x aren't going to be the same by any means. Toss in the fact that the corps have nonbots, fabricating machines, etc., and it isn't horribly unrealistic that a street chemist would be paying retail or more to put together what the corps release. Remember, mom and pop shops are dead in the dystopia. It's shop corp-made or go home for that very reason.

That said, on the balance side of things, to compensate for spending points in the skill, I'd probably put it at 75% of the cost right now with an extended test equal to the availability for creating it. A glitch costs 10% of the product but adds successes, a critical glitch ruins the batch. I'd probably let the character cook a batch of doses equal to half his skill. He can do more at once by splitting his pool. That's off the top of my head, so it hasn't been playtested at all.

[ImaginalDisc]

"Assuming the precursor materials are purchased, except the anhydrous ammonia, the total investment needed for a 1 oz. cook of meth is approximately $200.  The finished product is then diluted, cut or “stepped on” and becomes two to three ounces to be sold for somewhere between $1,200 and $1,600 an ounce.  As you can see, the profit margin in meth production is tremendous, however, many cooks are users themselves and sell off a portion of the cook to live on and to purchase precursor ingredients for the next cook. The user/cook is influenced by his or her drug to cook on a regular basis and seldom realizes the profits associated with cocaine or heroin production. Remember some cooks steal precursor ingredients or trade off finished product for the precursor agents and to obtain an even greater profit margin."

http://www.semo.edu/criminaljustice/costs_of_meth.html

[Mithlas]

Wasn't it half the cost of the components? I can't find it in the cooking section of either S4A or Arsenal, and I don't have SR5 now to check there, but that doesn't seem an unreasonable starting point, and is easy to calculate. Granted, I haven't crunched numbers and it's possible that higher levels (particularly in SR5 when skills can go above 7).

Vandarl and Wells have already mentioned the benefits of economy of scale, which is something that runners can't take advantage of. Corps, working from the component chemicals of the components might allow them to work from a 10% baseline.

[WellsIDidIt]

I would imagine the corps could get below 10% on many products if they wanted. Especially considering the benefits of using automated chemists (yay for drones and nanite machines). No skilled labor costs, no need for respirators and safety equipment, limited issues with "shrinkage" due to theft and employee use.

I don't have my SR4 books with me, so I don't know what it was then off the top of my head.

[ZeConster]

Wasn't it half the cost of the components? I can't find it in the cooking section of either S4A or Arsenal, and I don't have SR5 now to check there, but that doesn't seem an unreasonable starting point, and is easy to calculate. Granted, I haven't crunched numbers and it's possible that higher levels (particularly in SR5 when skills can go above 7).

Vandarl and Wells have already mentioned the benefits of economy of scale, which is something that runners can't take advantage of. Corps, working from the component chemicals of the components might allow them to work from a 10% baseline.

In 4E Arsenal, the Ingredients paragraph says "Generally speaking, the ingredients for a compound have an Availability equal to that of the compound and are usually 1/10th the price". There's also a list of the kit level needed depending on difficulty and quantity:

• Simple (natural products: plant dye, sea salt, critter venom): Kit+ is Superior
• Complex (simple compounds: booze, gunpowder): Kit is Adequate
• Intricate (synthetic drugs, advanced explosive): Shop is Adequate
• Exotic (complex synthetic, volatile - think radioactive and advanced synthetic drugs): Facility is Adequate
• 1-9 doses: need a Kit
• 10-49 doses: need a Shop
• 50+ doses: need a Facility

Doses work as follows: for each doubling of the amount of doses, double the interval time (it starts at 1 hour).

[ImaginalDisc]

Wasn't it half the cost of the components? I can't find it in the cooking section of either S4A or Arsenal, and I don't have SR5 now to check there, but that doesn't seem an unreasonable starting point, and is easy to calculate. Granted, I haven't crunched numbers and it's possible that higher levels (particularly in SR5 when skills can go above 7).

Vandarl and Wells have already mentioned the benefits of economy of scale, which is something that runners can't take advantage of. Corps, working from the component chemicals of the components might allow them to work from a 10% baseline.

In 4E Arsenal, the Ingredients paragraph says "Generally speaking, the ingredients for a compound have an Availability equal to that of the compound and are usually 1/10th the price". There's also a list of the kit level needed depending on difficulty and quantity:

• Simple (natural products: plant dye, sea salt, critter venom): Kit+ is Superior
• Complex (simple compounds: booze, gunpowder): Kit is Adequate
• Intricate (synthetic drugs, advanced explosive): Shop is Adequate
• Exotic (complex synthetic, volatile - think radioactive and advanced synthetic drugs): Facility is Adequate
• 1-9 doses: need a Kit
• 10-49 doses: need a Shop
• 50+ doses: need a Facility

Doses work as follows: for each doubling of the amount of doses, double the interval time (it starts at 1 hour).

Good find! I skipped 4th, so I didn't think to look there.

[Vandarl]

I have to say, I would definitely want to reward and encourage a player that wanted to build stuff, the only trick is to make it useful but not profitable enough that they have no reason to do anything else.

The info from 4E looks like a good starting point, and the suggestion of 75% modified by social skills doesn't seem awful for a lot of things as well.

[Emperors Grace]

Even with a character skilled in science, I would think it would rarely be useful for profit - running can do so much more, particularly if you are seeking rare ingredients on the side...

Besides, if they burn a lot of time making things, they would pretty much have to go NPC I'd think.  I don't think I'd allow a PC to miss sessions/runs or throw all the others calendars just to make stuff.

[ImaginalDisc]

Even with a character skilled in science, I would think it would rarely be useful for profit - running can do so much more, particularly if you are seeking rare ingredients on the side...

Besides, if they burn a lot of time making things, they would pretty much have to go NPC I'd think.  I don't think I'd allow a PC to miss sessions/runs or throw all the others calendars just to make stuff.

The intention is more the character to make useful things to enhance running.