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Technomancer with Bioware... Player may need meds

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emsquared

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« Reply #45 on: <06-14-14/1508:29> »
I think that is a horrible statement.  Yes, the GM is the final say, but both the players and the GM have to work in the same world.  They have to be playing by the same set of rules that govern said world.  It is one thing to be working with houserules or even invoking fiat, but if the GM is going to say that a specific aspect of the world officially operates in a certain way they should be able to not only back that up, but be able to tell or show the player where that ruling comes from so that the player can further educate themselves.

The rules govern the world, and the world is what makes it ShadowRun.  I don't think I could stay in a game where the GM feels using the rules is "nice when you can."
My guess is you're not a GM. What's horrible is when you're a new GM, the group is in the middle of an exciting battle and your sammy fires a grenade down a hall. You're not up on your scatter or chunky salsa rules so you say "I'm not gonna worry about it right now." but the player whines and wants you to look it up, which you know will bog things down, and all he's doing is hoping it will get him a few more boxes of damage. Or a car chase breaks out, and knowing that those rules are a ridiculous mess (at least in 4E) and you haven't once looked at them, you wing it and the player says "No no no no, I know that's not how it works" (but they can't tell you how it works either). Circumstances like that, all the other players can do is roll their eyes and pick up their phones. That's horrible.

I never said GM doesn't play by the same rules he improvs on the players. You 100% projected that onto my statement. And sorry rules don't govern the world, the GM does. Absolutely the rules are a great guide for the GM the majority of the time, but if the rules get in the way of the story, sorry but the rules gotta take a back seat. And the rules governing the world do not make Shadowrun, not even the Meta-plot makes Shadowrun, the dudes/dudettes sitting around the table do.

Consistency is important, but if the players understand you don't know how something works at that time, but you'll look it up and "do it right" once you've had a chance to get a grasp on it, what's the harm? Honestly, please answer that question. Even if you change it down the road, what exactly has been lost (and how was it worth more than the time gained at the table actually doing things)?

JimmyCrisis

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« Reply #46 on: <06-14-14/1657:20> »
The misconception here is that the GM is playing.

Being a GM is work.  You're the guy at the table responsible for everyone else's amusement.  It's up to you to grok the rules, the setting, to make the world seem real, to make sure everyone gets the spotlight, etc.  It's a big juggling act, and it is hard work, though it is rewarding (when your players aren't being PITAs).

That means give your GM a break.  If you are playing in my game, I want you to know how all the stuff on your character sheet works.  If I don't know how grenade scatter happens, and you can't give me a legit sounding answer, then it does whatever I come up with on the fly.

Mara

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« Reply #47 on: <06-15-14/0509:24> »
The misconception here is that the GM is playing.

Being a GM is work.  You're the guy at the table responsible for everyone else's amusement.  It's up to you to grok the rules, the setting, to make the world seem real, to make sure everyone gets the spotlight, etc.  It's a big juggling act, and it is hard work, though it is rewarding (when your players aren't being PITAs).

That means give your GM a break.  If you are playing in my game, I want you to know how all the stuff on your character sheet works.  If I don't know how grenade scatter happens, and you can't give me a legit sounding answer, then it does whatever I come up with on the fly.

This. 100% this. In my current game, this is the first time I have been a player in a very long time. My GM is still getting used to SR5,
as is most of my group. I am ending up, frequently, being the person who is being used as a rules looker-up person, especially
for stuff we haven't done before(because, my experience GMing and playing often means I can look something up FASTER then
the GM once the rule books come out.) i kind of hate this, BTW...I want to be able to just sit back and play..

elrikthebastard

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« Reply #48 on: <06-15-14/1213:11> »
I agree!


elrikthebastard

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« Reply #49 on: <06-17-14/1501:58> »
Just thought I would give an update.

Mr. Munchkin and I have had a few conversations. He was having a very hard time making his character fit in the narrow field I had presented and I think he is a tad OCD.

At first I think it caused him physical pain to even think about it, but once he started, and we started to talk histories, and trying to get the party to work together, he started to have fun.

He has spend years building characters in secret... warning klaxons... and we all did it at the same table. We talked for 5 hours and it felt like 45 minutes had passed. He had a blast. I know it will not be perfect every day and I told him that, but I hope he is coming around. Time will tell.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Namikaze

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« Reply #50 on: <06-17-14/1709:00> »
That sounds extremely encouraging, elrik!
Feel free to keep any karma you earned illicitly, it's on us.

Quote from: Stephen Covey
Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.

elrikthebastard

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« Reply #51 on: <06-17-14/1716:35> »
Thanks for helping out Namikaze.

And thanks to everyone else. I don't know were I would be without input from others.

osyran

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« Reply #52 on: <06-19-14/0348:26> »
Just thought I would give an update.

Mr. Munchkin and I have had a few conversations. He was having a very hard time making his character fit in the narrow field I had presented and I think he is a tad OCD.

At first I think it caused him physical pain to even think about it, but once he started, and we started to talk histories, and trying to get the party to work together, he started to have fun.

He has spend years building characters in secret... warning klaxons... and we all did it at the same table. We talked for 5 hours and it felt like 45 minutes had passed. He had a blast. I know it will not be perfect every day and I told him that, but I hope he is coming around. Time will tell.

Thanks for all the input guys!

Are you sure you didn't break him? It was weird, like a completely different person. I'm looking forward to our games, and am fortunate we are all friends to start (and for a long long while). Makes it easier to just talk and reach consensus without killing each other, IRL. After all, it's a game for friends of like mind. Peace!

elrikthebastard

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« Reply #53 on: <06-19-14/1007:37> »
I have to say I did push pretty hard. And all those manipulations you learn at Anger Management Training, then Management Training, then raising kids, dealing with an ex-wife, and a life of hedonism and debauchery. It all came into play.

My wife says to wait for the other boot to fall. I also promised him I would not focused on the overpowering  bad guys.

We talked again last night, and I reiterated that not every game would go his way, or your way. He seems to have a plan of action.

It could be that I also said, "Why are you asking me this, what do you get out of it." and "You don't try to take a skill/group/talent/thing without a reason." Maybe he got the larger picture. Not sure but I will do what I do with everyone else, extend my hand and be ready to break an arm. =-)

Now that I have the basics worked out, I am hoping I don't embarrass myself to much.