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Trouble fitting a Sniper

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farothel

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« Reply #15 on: <11-17-15/1201:27> »
6. Every well-designed character should have more than one weapon skill if combat is any part of their role. Yes, they may have a 6(+2) for Longarms (Sniper Rifles), but it would be really good if they had a 2(+2) in, say, Blades (Swords) or something. Yes, I am fully aware that a katana is not very concealable. However, especially in some parts of the sprawl, an openly carried blade is far more acceptable than a sniper rifle, even in 'decent' company. Same with a pistol or staff.

And longarms also works for shotguns (at least in 4th it did), so your sniper can also use his main skill indoors and at close range in case he/she can't do it's usual stuff.
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DigitalZombie

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« Reply #16 on: <11-17-15/1520:41> »
I'm having a little trouble fitting a Sniper in the group. I need ideas for "sniper friendly" missions, so the player doesn't get bored with nothing to do.


Throw some obstacles at him. I assume he will be playing a sniper because he likes the idea of preparing and lining up that single perfect headshot. In that case, my take on "sniper friendly" missions would be something like this:
The team needs to infiltrate a heavily patrolled complex and eliminate/capture/plant the macguffin.
The villain must not be alerted of the teams presence or else he will flee/execute prisoner/delete paydata/etc.
Every goon is equipped with a biomonitor, alerting every minion and mastermind about their demise whenever one is taken out.
Careful observation will reveal their routes and some snooping will reveal their RDO procedures.
The team hacker would most likely need to hack those biomonitors and communication devices one at a time. Goons cant be taken out premature without alerting the other badguys.

1: Now the sniper would need to find an acceptable vantage point, and hold his trigger finger steady as the rest of the team sneaks into the facility. When a patrolling badguy suddenly gets too close to the team, thus jeopardizing the mission the sniper should be able to do some take aim action on the guy until he gets the clear from the team hacker. And only then should he do a nice red mist out of the goon. Preferably right before the goon rounds the corner where the team is holed up, so they quickly can grab and hide his body.

2: as the sniper has the best view from hos vantage point, let him guide the team around the complex. He gets a major vote on which goons to avoid and whom to take out.

3: Because of the complexity of the facility the sniper would need to change places now and again. (I would prefer handling this narratively and not by combat rounds). If he handles the various decisions/skilltests well he will reach his new vantage point without incident. If he fails some of them there will be hindrances like suspicious goons seeing his shadow/in position but only has 0,1 second to aim and fire at the goon about to walk in on the body of the astrally projected mage/ the target is now in a heavily obscured area making the shot difficult, yet still necessary.

To sum up, try to create a small minigame for each shot to be taken instead of having all the goons attack at once- as that will just lead to a: turn 1:take aim-shoot.  turn 2: take aim -shoot. repeat ad nauseam.





Prodigy

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« Reply #17 on: <12-02-15/2247:53> »
Let me point out that in real life, in the US Army, a sniper is primarily an ISR asset. ISR is Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance. 90% of the time, a sniper just gathers data. A lot of soldiers can shoot well, but a great sniper has supreme discipline and, from my experience, has an excellent memory and an eye for the smallest detail.

In the SR world, I imagine that snipers are not just good shots. They may have to be the spy drone guy. They may need to tell the face that the guy in the tuxedo to his left is watching the mark a little too closely. They may be the main legwork guy. I know a former sniper turned PI here in Texas who is great at what he does.

Food for thought.

Mirikon

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« Reply #18 on: <12-02-15/2343:43> »
Indeed, a lot of people qualify as Expert marksmen. A Sniper, however, has to have extreme patience, discipline, and be able to work out extreme math in his head. Which is what makes them scary fraggers. Bullet drop, wind speed, humidity, curvature of the earth, and more goes into a sniper making an extreme range shot. And when they take that shot, the gun may be pointed thirty degrees to the right and forty-five degrees UP from the target, so that the bullet will land where it is supposed to by the time the earth's rotation brings that spot around. Being able to do those calculations in the field is what makes a sniper. Everyone else is a marksman who knows how to strike from cover.

And yes, trained snipers are people I NEVER EVER EVER want to be even slightly annoyed with me.
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All4BigGuns

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« Reply #19 on: <12-03-15/0010:32> »
Really the difference between a Sniper and a normal high Agility combat focused character is they have Longarms skill instead of Automatics.

For me there is little difference other than having Longarms in addition to Pistols. I tend not to take Automatics unless I'm taking the entire group.
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CitizenJoe

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« Reply #20 on: <12-03-15/0102:28> »
Let me point out that in real life, in the US Army, a sniper is primarily an ISR asset. ISR is Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance. 90% of the time, a sniper just gathers data. A lot of soldiers can shoot well, but a great sniper has supreme discipline and, from my experience, has an excellent memory and an eye for the smallest detail.

In the SR world, I imagine that snipers are not just good shots. They may have to be the spy drone guy. They may need to tell the face that the guy in the tuxedo to his left is watching the mark a little too closely. They may be the main legwork guy. I know a former sniper turned PI here in Texas who is great at what he does.

Food for thought.

However, this is not the character being built in SR. 

halflingmage

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« Reply #21 on: <12-15-15/0950:46> »
As others have said a good sniper is more than just a high Longarms skill.  He should have good pools with Sneak, athletics skills to get to his nest, if military trained probably some outdoor skills as well.  Your sniper would be good at physical scouting and surveillance,  could be the outdoor expert, or just be the guy with survival and navigation when you are hip deep in some Z zone and stuck there for a while.  Longarms also covers shotguns, so he should have a good combat shotgun in the toy chest for those times you have to go down into the steam tunnels and kill a Nosferatu or something similar.   

Kincaid

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« Reply #22 on: <12-15-15/1215:07> »
Let me point out that in real life, in the US Army, a sniper is primarily an ISR asset. ISR is Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance. 90% of the time, a sniper just gathers data. A lot of soldiers can shoot well, but a great sniper has supreme discipline and, from my experience, has an excellent memory and an eye for the smallest detail.

In the SR world, I imagine that snipers are not just good shots. They may have to be the spy drone guy. They may need to tell the face that the guy in the tuxedo to his left is watching the mark a little too closely. They may be the main legwork guy. I know a former sniper turned PI here in Texas who is great at what he does.

Food for thought.

All true, this is why my sniper character as a math SPU, mnemonic enhancers, and a fleet of spy drones.  He pulls the trigger on his Ranger Arms maybe once every third run or so, but he's always handy.

However, this is not the character being built in SR.
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cantrip

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« Reply #23 on: <12-18-15/1345:52> »
2. Countersnipers. Basically, the other side has snipers, too. Take care lest the hunter become the hunted.

 ;D

jaguar

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« Reply #24 on: <12-29-15/0109:54> »
I've skimmed this, so apologies if I repeat anything.

My campaign has a sniper in the team. So far she's had 1 true sniping opportunity and that was at a contact meet. She managed to take out a target that had 12 body and 16 armour in one shot. I ruled that the target was unaware of her presence, so no dodge roll.

I convinced her to invest in a shotgun because it also uses the Longarms skill. She's chosen to use slugs rather than shot (flechette rules). If you've ever played Shadowrun Returns: Dragonfall, Eiger uses a sniper rifle/shotgun combination. Since then, she's found that the shotgun gives her ability to do plenty of damage in the field at shorter ranges.

Another important thing is that I've let her use a Longarms + Intuition check for identifying potential sniper hides, allowing her to scout ahead for herself and for the team's protection.

In short, our sniper's roles are:
  • Providing cover for the team when they meet contacts or proceed into dangerous areas
  • Assessing the potential danger from other snipers
  • Countering other snipers
  • Putting the hurt on in normal range combat

Mirikon

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« Reply #25 on: <12-29-15/0117:42> »
You're doing it right, Jaguar.
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Raven2049

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« Reply #26 on: <12-30-15/2104:19> »
I myself favor longarms for the shotty. the Auto Assault 16 is very handy as are the flechette suppressive fire rules. and as i have a crockett EBR as well on my roto drone that i can easily pull off for personal use i really enjoy the times where i can use either.

AwesomenessDog

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« Reply #27 on: <01-22-16/2052:08> »
Thanks for answering!

How does this look:

1) First target is always caught unaware
2) After each shot, roll stealth vs perception
3) Enemies who beat his roll run for cover in right direction and can roll defense for other shots. Next turn they can try and spot him.
4) Enemies who don't beat his roll...I dunno...what do you suggest? They panic and are still considered unaware?

Thanks!

1) first target it always unaware but instead of a free hit, consider using the lower of a "dodge roll" or his movement (in meters/turn)+the number of the tier penalty for range. For example: Deadeye was hired to kill Doland Rump who is running for mayor of seattle in 2076, and deadeye is stationed inside a hotel with vantage on the park plaza that Rump's campaigning is taking place in today and is aproximately 625m away; Deadeye has a riffle with no range modifications. Currently Mr. Rump just stepped out of his helicopter and is walking towards the podium at a speed of 2 meters per turn. If he gets to the podium, he will be talking and stationary but the podium is providing Mr. Rump partial cover. If Deadeye takes the shot now, he will have to hit a threshold 4 (2m/t+2ranged penalty tier) shot in order to lead the shot proporly, or he will lose two dice if he tries to shoot while Doland is stationary but its at a threshold 2 (ranged penalty tier), Deadeye decides the stationary shot will be better and takes the moment he has to scan for counter snipers, and takes the shot once the speech is underway.
2)the remaining threats should be immediately aware although they cannot react to another shot unless they can tell when one happens. To continue: The shot rings out because all Deadeye has is a thermal suppressor. Rump is struck with a bullet and begins to fall backwards. Two of the three bodyguards rush to Rump to get him to safety and act as meatshields while the third begins scanning the crowd for potential shooters. The countersnipers were too busy scanning for snipers to notice their VIP is hit and they are too far away to hear the shot over the street noise so they are fully unware for the first round while someone is radioing to them that the VIP is shot. First full round: Deadeye domes one of the spotters for a counter sniper because he is stationary, unaware, and only a Threshold 3 to hit; the counter sniper, now alerted because his buddy is dead, radios that there is a sniper and begins scanning, but and can roll perception at the next shot. Meanwhile the other spotters begin scanning as well, one of which is outfitted with a thermographic scope which he uses to pick up the heat trail from the supersonic round (because thermal vision basically turns all sniper bullets into tracers, yay science) and tell his friend where the shot came from. Turn 2: Deadshot decides to fire at another spotter, not realizing his position is compromised, and pick the group that has found him, and takes a shot: but because that spotter can see the shot happen through his scope, he is able to try to dodge out of the way and manages to narrowly avoid death. Thermo-guy's friend fires back and Deadshot rolls dodge and gets away too, but, unfortunately for him, the counter snipers are using tracers and the remaining two groups quickly zero in and both fire as well; because Deadshot is looking through a scope not pointed at the other two, he cant react to their shots, but the well concealed vantage point means he only has to soak one round that cripples his right cyberarm. Round 3: Deadeye decides its time to go but first checks again to make sure the VIP is down for good and when he does so he see's through his scope enhancements that one of the Bodyguards is on a call with KE and likely calling in a HTR team and thinks he should slow them down first; Deadshot takes a shot at the man attempting to blow his brains out through his comlink: the man is facing, looking at, and knows where Deadshot is, but he cannot see what dead shot is aiming at or see when he shoots so the Caller is unaware and is a threshold 2 to hit. Deadshot strikes true ending the call and cutting KE off some information delaying the reinforcements by a couple minutes. Deadshot spends his remaining simple action and move action to duck out of the building and meets with his rigger and face in an alley who help him get past the road blocks and safetly away. A meetup later and the group score a hefty paycheck and about 20 street cred and 10 notoriety.

Hope this cleared it up.

As well, silencers are still good for sniper riffles as the crack doesnt travel far from the bullet's path and the silencer helps to not alert people in the building that there is a sniper there. Civilian noise complaints and all.

My advice to integrating snipers into most missions is that the sniper is firesupport and overwatch (and likely has the offsight hacker with him feeding the sniper data). Try to give the sniper moments where he has the drop on people and can pick the off to help pinned down friends (so use suppressive fire more) as well as limit him to times when he doesn't have line of sight because a wall or something is in the way. Another suggestion is to let the sniper pick a vantage point from a list you give based on the maps available to them and to allow them to vary the angle somewhat , like switching to a different window or area of a roof (or if the party can afford a helicopter, flying around the building). You might even be nice and give him a mission where the playing field is nice and open so he doesn't have to micromanage the scardie men running for cover.

[Edit: As well, it would be a perception (sight) to spot firing (but an auditory check could be subbed for those where the difference matters to determine the general location of where it came from) which for spotting most snipers should be ridiculously reduced because of A. distance (if its more than 500 meters away you have to be able to see the flash, you cant really see the person stand out at this point), B. every sniper conceals their vantage points (simply things like lowering the light in the room, hiding under a tarp, making the hole your firing through smaller, etc. should each take away a dice to spot the sniper), and C. any and all suppressors have flash reduction which makes distance even more of a hindrance. That said, you could make a sniper roll his sniper skill (alone) every round he is taking aim and every time he critical glitches (successes or regular glitches irrelevant) this roll, he accidentally glints his scope at someone important who gets a free perception check against just the sniper's stealth+agility.]
« Last Edit: <01-24-16/2250:51> by AwesomenessDog »

DarckChild

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« Reply #28 on: <01-24-16/1341:37> »
Morning guys,

I'm having a little trouble fitting a Sniper in the group. I need ideas for "sniper friendly" missions, so the player doesn't get bored with nothing to do. I gave him a Cavalier Arms EBR, which doubles as an assault rifle if the need rises...

I'm also concerned about mission difficulty for him, because of his range, most targets are caught unaware, so its easy for him to take out many foes. How do you guys handle Snipers?

I thought about having him roll for stealth each time he fires a shot, to KEEP his position hidden. I also thought about ruling that once the first target is hit, the others aren't unaware anymore, even if they don't know the sniper's position, so they get the defense roll normally. What do you think about it?

Thanks!

I'm having a little trouble fitting a Sniper in the group
Besides the character being a "Sniper" can you tell us more about this character? Metahuman type? Background? Ex-military?

What is the rest of the group and for that matter where is the game situated?  Are the group Runners or are they part of a Corp?


I'm also concerned about mission difficulty for him, because of his range, most targets are caught unaware, so its easy for him to take out many foes
Well fist the character going to have to get position. 

The Opponents/target might get a Perception check for a "Human" thermal signature at range or light reflecting off the scope.  Maybe with IR they can see any laser targeting device.  Further if the weapon is smart and not in Silent mode Deckers/Technomancers will be able to see the weapon or anything with a Matrix signature (which should be just about all the character's gear).  Heck, I can see a Johnson employing his own team of counter-snipers for a meet...

Or if there are Spirits protecting the "Target"?  How about Security Drones?
Here's an example of today's tech: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QIkypcdcqmI  now imagine what enhanced hearing can do.

If the character can get past all that to get their first shot off then that specific target is pretty much dead pending the damage done...

Inspiration:  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqQpRZxapIg  or  https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tzBTS6t60j0
In both of these examples note that the Sniper is not with the rest of the group.

Unless it's a controlled environment such as we see where the Police or Security detail the Snipers tend to be mobile.  Take a shot then move.
« Last Edit: <01-24-16/1345:20> by DarckChild »