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Heavy Houseruled Naga Mage

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Orvich

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« on: <01-19-12/2331:47> »
Alright, so this is my first stab at Shadowrun, playing with a GM who likes to houserule stuff fairly hard (which I'm totally cool with). We live nearby and hang out a lot, but play with people who live in the surrounding areas via a combination of Gametable (for spatial organization and dicerolls) and "Mumble" (we have a dedicated voice server). We've got a wiki up that we use for all the games we've played that has all our character info and other notes up. This time playing a tbg, I/he plans to keep logs of what goes on in each weekly session and perhaps post them here for public perusal!

I'm going to come up with alternate Ritual Spellcasting rules to make it less powerful but somewhat easier/faster to cast, which is going to be the focus of this character, along with summoning to a lesser extent. I'm not particularly interested in being an UBER-specced mage, as should be made obvious by the choice of Naga, but I want to be competent at it.

Character concept is Aztec-flavored, I've got blood magic thrown in for good measure, and am basing my centering off of honest-to-goodness nahuatl chants I've learned for the purpose. All of the spirit summoning and casting is going to be based around worshipping various Aztec gods,  as my character is both Nahualli and Tlamacazqui. Generally for things like ritual lodges, my GM is pretty cool with us just doing whatever, as he doesn't really expect for us to ever have struggles set in or around them, so I've got some cool stuff written out. Annnnnyways, to the actual character mechanics!

Oh also, this is a pretty highpowered game. I'll make notes of relevant special rules we've got up at the end.



Species: Naga

Attributes
Body - 6
Agil - 3 
React - 5
Str - 6   
Cha - 4
Intu - 4 
Log - 5 
Will - 6
Edge - 3
Magic - 6

Active Skills
MAGIC
Banishing - 4
Binding - 5
Summoning - 5
Spellcasting - 4
Counterspelling - 4
Ritual Spellcasting - 5
Arcana -  4
Enchanting - 4
Assensing -  5

COMBAT
Pistols - 2 (+2 Revolvers)  (Yes, I have a revolver. It's named ""Cuautlatzotzopitzqui". Means "Eagle Piercer")
Unarmed Combat - 4 (+2 Natural Weapons)
Dodge - 1
Blades - 1 (+2 Knives)

PHYSICAL
Infiltration - 2
Perception - 2

TECHNICAL
Computer - 1
Data Search - 1
First Aid - 1
Artisan - 1 (+2 Violin) (Freebie for teh lulz. I told him I wouldn't do anything too stupid)


Qualities -
POSITIVE
Magician (Aztec Tradition)
Mentor Spirit (Flavor TBD/Custom; +2 on Manipulation, +2 Binding(?) )
Natural Armor (2/3) [Scales]
Dual Natured
Guard
Natural Weapon (3P, Naga Venom)
Thermosense
Prehensile Tail
Bilingual (ArrPee)

NEGATIVE
Uneducated
No Arms
Mild Addiction (Butter)
Moderate Allergy to Cold

Metamagics - He's letting us start with initiation grades, as my magic stat indicates.
Centering (Nahuatl Prayer)
Sacrifice
Sympathetic Linking
(I plan to take Ally Spirit, pending a story event and karma. Psychometry also)

Spells  - We get free starting spells equal to our highest magic skill.
Magic Fingers
Mana Barrier (?)
Physical Barrier (?, but partially for RP)
Shapechange
Snakebite - Custom spell that changes my naga venom to a naturally occurring venom for a single dose.
Increase Reflexes
Mind Rape - Custom spell. As Mind Probe, but restricted to incapacitated targets for less drain.
Control Thoughts
(Two more I haven't decided on, tips?)

Contacts
Oberto Green, Head of Occult Security for Aztechnology Seattle (Connections 4, Loyalty 4)
Midnite, Transvestite Talismonger (Connections 3, Loyalty 2)
Nasatini, Naga Conjurer for Hire (Connections 1, Loyalty 1)


Important Gear  - We figured that selling the emeralds offsets any extra costs for modifying things (like clothing) for giant snake.
Obsidian Knife (Ceramic Knife)
Ruger Super Warhawk named "Cuautlatzotzopitzqui" [Internal Smartgun System]
60 Warhawk Rounds in speed loaders
Custom Urban Explorer Jumpsuit (5/5) [Biomonitor, Insulation 3, Chemical Protection 2]
Modified Subvocal Microphone
Modified Contact Lenses with built in Smartlink, Image Link, and Flare Compensation.
Modified Earphones with Sound Link
Force 7 Magical Lodge
Multicolored Feathered Headdress made from the feathers of the of a Feathered Serpent (Force 4 Sustaining Focus)
Some special thing that makes sense (Force 4 Spellcasting Focus)
Violin - Yes, I can play this...

Cybertech Enchancements - We're rounding essence, so we're using tiny amounts of it to have a commlink implanted, because it's too useful to not.

-Deltaware Implanted Commlink [.1 Essence]
-->Transys Avalon (Response 4, Signal 4) running Peynal (Firewall 3, System 3)
----->Analyze 3 (Ergonomic), Browse 2, Command 2, Edit 2, Scan 2, Armor 3 (Ergonomic), Attack 3, Purge 3 (Ergonomic), and PocketMage 3
----->"Ocelomeh" Agent 3 (Viral Resistance 2) with Analyze 3, Armor 3, Attack 3, and Purge 3 [Always On; Security; Counts as 2 programs]
----->"MatrixTroll" Agent 2 with Browse 2. [Freeware database/Matrix auto-searcher.]





Anything with a (?) is something I'm not sure on. I may remove the mana wall skill, though I kind of want to keep physical wall as an alternate method of locomotion for my snake.

Okay so. We've sort of screwed around with some of the BP costs, and added in various things free or with no payback on BP (like the mild addiction  to butter, which resulted from a funny conversation we had). Talking with him, he says "Screw the BP costs, I've already approved all of this." However, any suggestions should consider that BP amounts should stay about the same for any changes, and no real large additions to BP should be made.

Our current (written) extra rules for stuff:



Rules:
1) Characters start the game with 500 BP.
2a) Points spent on Edge and/or Magic/Resonance do NOT count against the 250 BP limit for attribute buys; however, they DO count towards the limit of 1 stat at racial maximum.
2b) You may buy mages and technomancers may buy initiation/submersion grades for 10 BP each. You must still pay 10 BP to increase you Magic/Resonance as normal.
3) There is no point cap for Positive Qualities. Negative Qualities cap at 50 points. (Racial negative qualities count towards this limit but DO NOT grant bonus BP)
4) You may start the game with 1 skill at 6 AND 2 skills at 5 OR four skills at 5.
5A) Magicians may start the game with a number of spells up to their highest magic skill x2 paying only the Spell formula cost. Likewise, foci cost no BP to attune, only their equip costs to purchase.
5B) Technomancers may start the game with a number of complex forms equal to highest resonance skill for free, and may pay BP for additional forms up to highest resonance skill x2.
6) Note that I may veto items over Availability 12 if I don't feel that your character could or should have them.
7) All availabilities are subject to change based on in game factors.
8) You should start the game with at least 2 contacts unless you have good reason.
9) All nanotech can be obtained at 50% normal price. Nanohives do not exist.
10) Get all non-standard metatypes or non-metahuman sentients cleared with me before you take them.
11a) No, you may NOT be an Infected. Don't bother asking.
11b) No, you may NOT be a cyberzombie. Don't bother asking.
11c) Blah blah blah blah Cyborg. Blah blah blah. (Cyborg in Shadowrun mean robots with human brains, not mere cybernetics.)
11d) """"""""""""" Free Spirit """""""".
11e) """"""""""""" AI """""""".
12) Note that I MAY veto certain qualities based on a number of factors. Chances are this won't come up, so you don't need to clear it with me beforehand.
13) Get anything from the Digital Grimoire cleared with me before you take it.
14) You may spend up to 60 points on starting gear. Born Rich costs 5 BP and increases this limit to 72 points.
15) I'm pretty strict about enchanting, ordeals, and crafting; I don't like players being able to avoid money and XP sinks, especially when they drastically increase a character's power.
16) We are NOT using Advanced Contacts.
17) All non-metahumans, and some non-standard meta-human types MUST buy custom armor for double cost unless you specifically clear it with me. Armored cloths, ect. may stack with normal body armor.
18) I do NOT charge mages Karma to bond new foci. Foci are expensive enough. You have to pay the difference to upgrade, however.
19)  Enchanting is included with purchases of the Conjuring skillset. Arcana is included with purchases of both Conjuring or Spellcasting, though it still obeys the cap of 4 from skillset purchases; other points going towards it are wasted.
20) A bonded focus may be recalled at any time as a Complex Action so long as there are no astral barriers or hazing in the way.

A lot of this stuff is for RP boosting reasons. Something like this is rule 20 on the list. We like to play in a style that includes very signature items. This is the reason for 18 also, and the unspoken rule that you can reformulate existing foci to maintain their form and make them more powerful. This means that my giant snake doesn't have to have on a giant headdress all the time, only when using it, and it means that this very appropriate foci will remain with me until the end of the campaign.


UmaroVI

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« Reply #1 on: <01-19-12/2359:47> »
Banishing is crap. Ditch it.

What do you get out of 6 strength? Even if you care about unarmed damage - which is not really worth it - STR/2 rounds up and you could have a 5. You really don't need that, though, and I would have 3 at most.

Aztec magic is a Charisma tradition. Why do you have 4 Charisma and 5 Logic?

So, with 3 initiation grades, you have a max magic of 9. This means you should have Magic 8. Honestly, I would really consider dumping a lot more BP into initiation and more magic under those rules.

Spellcasting 6 is worth it, especially with the discounted spells rule. I would lower Assensing and Summoning to 4.

Why do you have combat skills that aren't Unarmed? Actually, Unarmed is a bit iffy too, having either none or just Dodge would make more sense. Specifically:
1) You are not good enough with any of your nonmagical attacks to make using them sensible in any circumstance aside from "so much background count you should hide in a corner and cry" and even then, they aren't very good, because...
2) You don't have hands! You can magic fingers a revolver, yes, but you're going to be hideously ineffective with it. And the one time you'd care - huge background count - you can't magic fingers it. What is this for? You also can't Shapechange into a human to use it, since regular humans are body 3 and you can only do body 4 or 8. And again, drops in BGC.

Physical Barrier is not very good because of how the stupid Barrier rules work and it being transparent. Metal Wall is much better because it is opaque.

Your other 2 spells should probably be Stunbolt and Stunball. Drop something sketchy like Mana Barrier for a way to damage vehicles/drones like Powerbolt or Frost.

The foci rules make foci a really excellent buy. I would be using a Power focus rather than a Spellcasting focus - you have a lot of magical skills, and it adds to all of them. You could even cut 4 points off Summoning and Binding to pay for the difference and come out well ahead. If you can scrape up for it, more foci with Increase [Attribute], Deflection, Combat Sense, and other handy spells like that would be good.

For having body 6, you're wearing very little armor (also, urban explorer is 6/6, not 5/5). You can doubtless do better than that, although how much better depends on what you can convince your GM can be naga-modified. FFBA at the very least should be involved. Probably some parts of PPP? You could also say hell with subtlety, I'm a giant snake, and just wear some obvious armor like riot control armor or SWAT armor or something.


Orvich

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« Reply #2 on: <01-20-12/0145:26> »
Okay, before I said anything else, I should have said this: I don't plan on being in direct combat. Ever. We're pretty heavy RP based, and we've got plenty of other characters that have a lot more going for them in combat. There aren't any plans for us to have us to all be regularly forced with situations where we MUST  be combat monkeys or run away. Similarly, because thematically there isn't really much call for very high backround counts all over the place, we won't be in them all the time! Not to mention that my Dual Natured-ness (not to mention astral scouting that will take place) means that I'd never put myself into a high background count area without extreme precautions. So, I don't need to be super optimized for combat, I'd far prefer to be optimized for utility/story control/mission control.

On to specific notes:

I bought Banishing with group purchasing, so there isn't any real point in removing it in that case. Remember that we've included enchanting in the summoning pool (because it was off on its own). So I raised the group to 4 and specific (more useful) abilities in it separately.  ((I lower this later down in the post))

Good point on the STR 6. Moved that point to CHA to be more useful. I do want a decent amount of STR though, so that I can in theory grapple people and snakecrush/bite them. This was the idea behind getting the 'Snakebite' spell.

Because Logic is used for Arcana rolls /shrug. I guess you've got a point here. As I fiddle with stats any extra points are going into Charisma.

On the Initiation. I actually only have two initiation grades, which is the max he's going to give me. My max Magic is only 5 normally because I've got less then 6 points of essence, and two initiations take me to 7 cap magic score. All of our mages get free centering because it makes sense  that anyone who does their traditional ritual thing can calm down and do spells 'better' >_>.

Assensing is something I really want high, so I'm not particularly willing to drop it for more combat ability... If I find something else to drop to raise this, I will, but I'm pretty good with my skills, tbh.

On the 'Magic Fingers' problem... I have a prehensile tail which specifically works like a hand. I've got quick loaders so that I can load it one-handed. This is mooostly for the lulz. "Uh, a giant snake walked in and pulled out a bigass revolver." (Also, Shapechange doesn't appear to say anything about having to change into average for any given race, and base humans can have up to 6 body!)

Yeah, I'm really really iffy on both Mana barrier and Physical Barrier because they are way less good as I originally thought they were. I originally suspected that they were stronger barrier skills and I've had a really great experience with barrier spells in other games (like Exalted, where with some RP finaegling I managed to learn a barrier pattern from a jadeborn that let me make essentially indestructible barriers for near to no cost. I never spammed it because I wanted to avoid too much min/maxing.). I may drop them and opt for much more useful spells, like Makeover and Fashion. TOTALLY KIDDING ON THAT LAST PART, COULD YOU TELL?

The knife skill is for use with sacrifice. Natural weapons is so that I'll be at least competent with my own fangs...

Okay yeah. Afaict, dropping the 'conjuring pool' down by 2 points (for 20 bp back) will allow me to take a F3 Power focus under our totally byzantine rule clusterfuck. This is indeed a profitable venture. In fact... I can make that a drop of 3, leaving my 'conjuring' pool net where it is. I'd then have 15 bp left after taking the focus (again, we've got screwy and abuse-able bp rules going down.) I'll throw away 5 of that bp for safekeeping and use the other 10 to raise my CHA to the max it can be right now, without removing my previous foci (can I do this? I might just be crazy). I'd drop other things/foci go for F4, but availability!

 I'm going to get blood foci, but probably won't end up using it for anything but ritual casting, to avoid having a huge blood-magic taint on everything, though we're working out how the metaphysics work on that one. If it's somewhere in the books that we've missed or on the forums, point it out, please? Mighty useful though, thanks!

I'm looking at taking some Increase [att], and probably Combat Senses/Deflection (Though again, us != in direct combat ), but I'll need more sustaining foci to use them well without eating lots of dice penalties for sustaining. I'll be able to get more of these later, probs.

He's pretty much nixed any better armor as a starting character for me. It's easy to get the urban explorer  (fixed the stats, thanks) modified because it's just a whole lot more fabric/material, where getting real armor modified will be way more of a bitch.

I may consider dropping one of my other stats to raise my magic to cap, but I'm pretty unfortunately attached to most of them. May drop body 1 for it.

Sengir

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« Reply #3 on: <01-20-12/0733:18> »
You have an implanted Commlink, but no Sim Module to use it. Unless you plan to wear glasses and put an AR glove on your tail, I'd suggest implanting the Sim Module and carrying the 'Link around externally...

UmaroVI

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« Reply #4 on: <01-20-12/0904:57> »
The reason to have less Assensing/Summoning and more Spellcasting is that Summoning is really limited by the drain you take, not the dice you roll, and Assensing is something you need to be OK at - but spirits you can summon will always be better, so if an assensing roll is really important, you can summon a spirit. With 9 dice, you are slightly less good than the force 5 spirit you can easily summon.

Okay, maybe I'm missing something. I thought by "rounding essence" you mean that you are not actually losing essence and thus magic. If you are losing a point of magic to that commlink, it is not remotely worth it and you should just have a carried commlink.

Mirikon

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« Reply #5 on: <01-20-12/1401:37> »
Just a few general points:

Banishing is indeed crap. Don't bother with it. You're better off just getting a weapon focus or combat spells to deal with angry spirits.

Ritual Spellcasting is OK, but I wouldn't put more than a couple ranks in it to start. It is impractical for most runs. You'll be just fine if you ignore it altogether.

Summoning can swing a fight. I'd put at least a couple ranks in it, definitely. Remember, your drain is twice the hits the spirit gets on its Force roll to resist summoning, whether a spirit shows up or not, so you need to watch the force you try to summon things at. Take at least 2 in it, more if you have points.

Binding is not very useful at chargen, but if you want to bind spirits later, you'll want it. If you have some spare BP, throw them this way.

Assensing is mildly useful. Toss a rank or two here, just so you aren't defaulting. As Umaro said, spirits do it better, though, so that's another reason to make sure you can summon.

Counterspelling is important. You should have at least 2-3 ranks in it. End of story.

Spellcasting is the most important skill for any magician, really. Get this to 5, at least.
Greataxe - Apply directly to source of problem, repeat as needed.

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UmaroVI

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« Reply #6 on: <01-20-12/1500:32> »
If you aren't worried about combat and are more interested in utility spells, I would think about:
Influence (better than Control Thoughts for more subtle stuff)
Alter Memory

Consider swapping Magic Fingers out for Levitate. Some stuff requires MF, but Levitate is on the whole much more useful. In particular, it lets you fly people around, and also lets you carry ridiculously heavy things very fast.

I would drop Mana and Physical barriers and get Metal Wall. Opacity is really important because of the loopy rules.

Shapechange works in an intensely stupid fashion. You can only turn into things that are exactly 2 body away from you. Thus, with Body 6, you can turn into Body 4 or Body 8 things, but not Body 5 things. Your GM may houserule this. Consider either having 5 Body so you can Shapechange into a human, or using Physical Mask instead.

Clairaudience, Mana Window, Astral Window, and Trid Phantasm are all excellent spells with lots of useful applications that you should consider, either now or with karma.

Increase Logic, Increase Intuition, and Increase Charisma are great spells with numerous applications for getting stuff done out of combat. For example, Increase Logic your team's best First Aid user, or mechanic, or chemist, or whatever. Increase Charisma the face (or yourself and be a sorta-face). Increase Intuition your spirits before they make rolls on things like Assensing or Search. Etc.




Mirikon

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« Reply #7 on: <01-20-12/1528:43> »
An alternative to Magic Fingers is a spell I created. If your DM allows it, this could help you out a lot. http://forums.shadowrun4.com/index.php?topic=5812.0
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Orvich

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« Reply #8 on: <01-20-12/1544:12> »
You have an implanted Commlink, but no Sim Module to use it. Unless you plan to wear glasses and put an AR glove on your tail, I'd suggest implanting the Sim Module and carrying the 'Link around externally...

I HAD modified glasses, but we decided that was too stupid and went for (heavily) modified contact lenses, never mind snake anatomy. I specifically never intend to use sim sense, presumably I may control my comm link using vocal commands (through my subvocal microphone) for the few computing things I need to take care of, namely communicating with other party members, opening automatic doors and similar operations.

I do see that it kinda sucks to eat a magic loss for implanted comm link, but I seriously chafe at having to wear ANYTHING as a giant snake outside of run environments and I pretty much always will need to have my comm link on me. I may try to get him to not reduce my magic for it, but  it's a toss up if that'll happen.


@Mirikon:

Ritual Spellcasting is pretty crap as is, imo. It is very good for a very limited number of uses (casting a super high force stunbolt at a target), but in many situations where that is useful, it feels like there are much better and more effective ways to get the job done. Ritual Spellcasting also dosn't take into account different types of casting or the force of the spells involved when calculating duration. I'm going to wait until we play around with magic for a bit, but it makes a lot more sense to me to have Ritual Spellcasting time be additive instead of subtractive as it is. So, casting a low force detection spell on someone through a ritual link might add say... 1 hour of casting time, casting a high force combat spell would take substantially more. That way, you can do a certain amount of distance scrying and reconnaissance through ritual spellcasting. It would also allow for more complex rules involving multiple spells being cast at once with multiple participants. For instance, you could do a ritual during which one participant casts borrow sense and the other casts control thoughts, so that you have a nifty short term spy. You'd be able to add together the time and difficulty formulas to come up with more complex and unique rituals! It would also allow you to make more concrete rules for 'RP rituals' . For instance, I want to make an RP ritual that involves killing a sacrifice, cleansing their body and cleansing the water of the surrounding area, because my lodge is going to be in a blocked off section of old sewer. Though I don't know any of the proper spells for this, it has no real application outside of RP, as it would be limited to being preformed in my lodge, and does not effect any other game mechanics, being merely a way to allow me to eat my already subdued and killed target and a way to make my lodge not potentially stink like sewage. To figure out how long it would take to do this, and what sort of magical energies it would require to do so (I'm okay with taking drain for appropriate RP things), you'd just use the combined spell ritual rules!

You need binding to make the most out of summoning, yeah? It does make you take another hit of drain, so it seems like the best way to bind somewhat powerful spirits is just to summon them, have them hang around while you heal up/rest, bind them.

One bonus to having my own assensing skill is that (because I'm dual natured), I don't necessarily want to task a spirit to watching over me all the time to avoid being astral ganked when I'm not paying attention. To that end, I'm going to be in astral perception mode most of the time, unless I'm doing something that explicitly requires normal vision sensing. It's not exactly clear, but it appears there is a hearing analogue while astral sensing? I figure that being dual natured dosn't mean that you simultaneously perceive both at once and have to switch back and forth, or is it different because it's 'natural' astral perception?

I do have 4 Counterspelling!

Due to the buisness involving dropping my conjuring pool to take a power focus, I had enough extra points to raise my Spellcasting to 5, so I've got that too!


@UmaroVI

Well. We've got a face character who isn't a giant snake. They picked a really stupid list of spells for their character design, but I suggested that THEY take Influence, among other things. It looks like if you manage to convince the target (using social/charisma things) to believe in your influence, they don't will save against it, which makes it a much stronger application.

I will take Alter Memory, it was on the list of things to consider swapping some barrier stuff for. Probably will take Levitate also.

Shapechange: Yeah, that's weird that it's ONLY +2 or -2, sounds like something to be erratted to read "Within +-2  of blahblah" I might actually take a point of body out though so that I can shapeshift human and put it in magic.

Why not just have an alternate shapeshift spell that has that text fixed and additionally allows you to spend extra hits on changing the base size of the target race, within reasonable limits, like +1 or -1 (you are a somewhat bigger or smaller member of that species then average), instead of raising other stats. It wouldn't be the option you WANT to take, but if you really want to shapeshift into that form, you can sacrifice some power in it and be allowed to.


Spells: The face character is spec-d illusion (though they forgot to actually take any, I told them to change their spell list...), and I'm fairly comfortable leaving that aspect to them. Honestly, I know that I may end up going human-form and being the face from time to time because I'm generally better at it as a player...

A question: do the window spells work like the -voyance spells, but with additional effects?

EDIT: Control thoughts also doesn't appear to give the victim any indication that they were being controlled beyond common sense. Afaict, as with influence, the commands seem to be their own thoughts, as long as you aren't too crazy, it shouldn't make things too obvious if you are being careful?

« Last Edit: <01-20-12/1549:53> by Orvich »

UmaroVI

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« Reply #9 on: <01-20-12/1727:05> »
The general consensus is that as soon as Control Thoughts drops the victim knows someone was pulling their strings. It's not enormously clear in the rules, but that is how every GM I've run with rules it. YMMV.

Not having redundant spells is good. You may actually want Increase Charisma on the non-face - the idea is you want to Increase Charisma them before a negotiation, then you take the -2 sustaining penalty while they talk.

Astral Window/Mana Window let you see past wards. Normally, it's very hard - especially as a dual-natured being - to get recon past wards without doing something highly unsubtle like bashing them in (thus alerting the creator). You may eventually want Masking/Extended Masking because currently you have to force through wards in a very unsubtle fashion. You can also use them like the normal Clair* spells, they just have more drain (but you can get away with low-force).

Re: Dual Nature, being Dual Natured means you are always Astrally perceiving and don't take the -2 penalty. Being dual-natured is a significant danger and is one of the reasons dual-natured characters should always be Mages or Mystic Adepts with a Mana spell that can handle spirits - you cannot turn DN off and it means that astral characters with ranged attacks can fly around and zap you. Control Thoughts covers this for you. I totally agree Assensing is worth it, I just don't think it's worthing being the bestest assenser ever as compared to being pretty good.