[Mittop]

Ok, I've been lurking here for some time, but I feel like it's time to jump in and start asking questions and figure stuff out. Here goes!

I've been thinking about the interaction between the Spoof Matrix Action and Devices.

Issue 1: Mark on an owner - If I am a hacker, and I want to issue a spoof command to a device, I need to get a mark on the owner. However, in many situations I will have no idea who the owner is. The rules for owners don't seem to exist, other than that they are assumed to have the equivalent of 4 marks on the icon they own.

Let's say I can determine the owner however. Let's use a Street Samurai's Gun. I know the owner, but how do I get a Mark on the Sam? He doesn't have a persona, or an icon. What about the security sensors at the corp facility? It's owned by the corp, how do I get a Mark on a corp?

My guess is that we will need to be able to say device owner need some Matrix icon that represents the owner. That way in can be marked.

Issue 2: Spoof says that you fool a device into accepting a command, but commands aren't strictly define? Can I tell the device to reboot? Eject the clip? Turn Off?

I'd love to get peoples thoughts, especially on the getting a mark on the devices owner. That seems challenging to me.

[Shade]

He doesn't have a persona, or an icon. What about the security sensors at the corp facility? It's owned by the corp, how do I get a Mark on a corp?

Pg. 235:
"When a person uses a device to connect to the mMatrix, the device's icon is subsumed by the persona's icon."
You may have mistakenly interpreted this to mean "when the a person is in full VR". That is not correct. The Sam DOES have a persona unless he's not running a comm. If he's not running a comm he has no PAN and his devices will be pathetically easy to hack on their own.

Spoof says that you fool a device into accepting a command, but commands aren't strictly define? Can I tell the device to reboot? Eject the clip? Turn Off?

Any command the device would normally be capable of doing. Yes, you can a wireless enabled gun to eject a clip. Since Spoof Command does not specify, I can only assume 1 mark is needed for ANY command, making it significantly faster to mark the owner and spoof commands than to get the requisite marks on the device to Control Device. But consider that most devices in a high security building will probably be slaved to a host and the owner of the Host will actually be the corporation themselves. I think this is an issue with Spoof, personally, and I would consider allowing Spoof Command to work as Control Device with marks equivalent to the person Spoofed.

IE - Security Spider has 3 marks on the host and devices for a building. You should be able to mark the Spider and Spoof any command which requires 3 marks or less.

[Mittop]

When is someone "logged in". If they are using their commlink? Are they always logged in? When they are using AR? When they are controlling the smartlink in their weapon?

Still wondering who the owner is on things like building security items, the corp sec goon who is pointing the assault rifle at you... etc.

Your analysis re: item 2 is what I was worried about also. Spoofing will only work on individuals, but hosts and corp facilities we will never find the "owner".

Oh, and thanks!

[Shade]

When is someone "logged in". If they are using their commlink? Are they always logged in? When they are using AR? When they are controlling the smartlink in their weapon?

Sure are. In fact, you can generally assume in this setting that ANY person is present in the Matrix by default, at all times. Security personnel/shadowrunners will usually be running in hidden mode and will turn off their wireless if they have reason to believe their devices have been compromised or are about to be bricked.

Still wondering who the owner is on things like building security items, the corp sec goon who is pointing the assault rifle at you... etc.

And that's why the rules are problematic as written...the Corporation is almost always the owner. Of the guns, of the building's security, etc. Shy of finding out some designee who can act as the owner(who the hell knows who that is? Regional Director?) I would just treat spoof as having as many marks as someone you've marked. It makes spoof useful. As it stands, the usefulness is very limited. In fact, I believe my interpretation of spoof is how it was designed to work. I think the RAW is an oversight. Hopefully we'll get an Errata soon.

[Typtrich]

When is someone "logged in". If they are using their commlink? Are they always logged in? When they are using AR? When they are controlling the smartlink in their weapon?

Sure are. In fact, you can generally assume in this setting that ANY person is present in the Matrix by default, at all times. Security personnel/shadowrunners will usually be running in hidden mode and will turn off their wireless if they have reason to believe their devices have been compromised or are about to be bricked.

Still wondering who the owner is on things like building security items, the corp sec goon who is pointing the assault rifle at you... etc.

And that's why the rules are problematic as written...the Corporation is almost always the owner. Of the guns, of the building's security, etc. Shy of finding out some designee who can act as the owner(who the hell knows who that is? Regional Director?) I would just treat spoof as having as many marks as someone you've marked. It makes spoof useful. As it stands, the usefulness is very limited. In fact, I believe my interpretation of spoof is how it was designed to work. I think the RAW is an oversight. Hopefully we'll get an Errata soon.

I would agree with your interpretation. Spoof is basically saying by marking a owner you then are able to copy any valid command they could give. So it is reasonable if it was intended to be used on anyone besides an owner that you could spoof any command their amount of marks would allow. The question becomes did they intend it to be very limited in use.

Edit: Clarity

[Michael Chandra]

Wasn't the whole idea that if you get a mark on a slaved decide, you also get a mark on what it's slaved to?

[Unahim]

Wasn't the whole idea that if you get a mark on a slaved decide, you also get a mark on what it's slaved to?

Yeah, so if that's the device the Owner is using to log in, it works for Spoof; however, if the corp goon's gun is slaved to their Spider's deck, but owned by the Corporation, you will be getting no Marks on the Owner's stuff.

[GiraffeShaman]

The owner can appoint someone as a temporary owner with a simple 1 minute process. This is often given to a spider. It has big advantages for things like tracking company equipment in real time.

[Ramid]

P360

Since spiders are considered the owners or
administrators of a system, they can command any of
the devices in that system without having to gain any
marks, since they already have the owner mark for all
devices

As written i would say if you can eyeball the security spider you could use a Spoof action against the host or item the spider has control over.