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Spending Karma to raise attributes. 5th edition.

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ImaginalDisc

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« on: <12-15-13/2123:32> »
I have been GMing a 5th edition game for several sessions now.

One of my players is a human decker who wants to buy his Logic up to a 7, and eventually plans on taking an 8.

The 5th edition book is clear that at character creation you cannot go above your natural maximum without the Exceptional Attribute positive quality but the book doesn't say anything about what the maximums are AFTER you start playing.

Is there a ruling on that?

baronspam

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« Reply #1 on: <12-15-13/2202:40> »
This is how I read the rules-

The Metatype Attribute Table on page 66 of SR5 shows "the starting rating attribute rating for each metatype as well as the maximum for each."  This is not the starting max, but just the flat maximum before augmentation.  You can begin with one attribute at maximum, all others must be less that maximum to start play. 

The positive quality Exceptional Attribute lets you have one Attribute (other than edge, which has a separate quality called Lucky) at a level one higher than your metatype maximum.  This requires GM Permission. 

If you are a human and your natural Logic is a 6, you have maxed it out.  If you have Exceptional Attribute Logic you can have a 7.  For more than that, you need either some augmentations or some magic, which at maximum can add 4 points to your unmodified current attribute. 

ZeConster

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« Reply #2 on: <12-15-13/2318:17> »
I'd say the rules are indeed pretty clear that the natural maximum is the highest your natural attribute can go - it's not a chargen maximum, after all, but a natural maximum. If your player wants a Logic of 8, there's the Cerebral booster bioware.

ImaginalDisc

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« Reply #3 on: <12-15-13/2325:10> »
Thanks for the quick feedback. I thought it some previous edition you could go above your maximums with Karma.

Belker

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« Reply #4 on: <12-16-13/1000:26> »
The others are correct - these are racial maximums that can only be exceeded by the Exceptional Attribute quality. You can only go higher than that limit via some form of augmentation (magical, cybernetic, bioware, etc.) and that boost is limited to 4 higher than your current maximum.

Example: Dee-Aitch the dwarf street samurai has a racial limit of 5 to his Reaction attribute. He takes the Exceptional Attribute quality for 14 karma to increase that to 6. He can increase that by four more points using augmentations, in his case, Wired Reflexes 2 and Reaction Enhancers 2, giving him a final Reaction score of 6(10). If he had not taken Exceptional Attribute, he couldn't go higher than 5(9).

Example 2: Sparkle the elven face is negotiating for her team. She's quite the looker with a great personality, and her charisma is close to the max at 7. The team's mage, Fingers, wants to ensure things go smoothly and that the team gets the most money possible for the job, so he casts Increase  Attribute (Charisma) at force 7 on Sparkle. He rolls well, getting 5 hits, which would be enough to increase her Charisma to 12. However, one hit is wasted, as Sparkles' maximum augmented Charisma is limited to four higher than her Charisma score, leaving her with Charisma 7(11) for the negotiating session.
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ImaginalDisc

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« Reply #5 on: <12-16-13/1815:15> »
Excellent examples, Belker. Thanks. The temporary magic boost cap hadn't even occurred to me. I supposed a chromed-to-the-eyeballs Street Sam will be impervious to many boosts.

Michael Chandra

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« Reply #6 on: <12-16-13/1836:37> »
While it's stated Augmented Maximum normally only applies to actual Augmentations, all the attribute-boosting magical powers/spells note that they respect Augmented Maximum.
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