[Herr Brackhaus]

Quick one: when facing an NPC spider or decker inside of a host, does said NPC gain the benefits of the host ratings?

If yes, why?

Assumption: only devices can be slaved to hosts, and a Persona like that belonging to a spider or decker would not qualify as it is a persona.

[Namikaze]

No, the NPC does not gain the benefits of the host ratings.  Personas != devices, as you pointed out.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Excellent, thank you for confirming my train of thought.

EDIT:
A followup if I might.

Can you edit a data stream you have previously performed Snoop on, or does the specific wording of "Snoop" override the "Edit File" action?

Edit File on page 239 states that you can continuously edit a video feed by expending one Complex Action per combat turn. Snoop on page 242 specifies that you can "listen to, view, or read this data live" as long as you have a MARK on your target. Does this mean the only way to edit a video feed is to obtain a MARK on the video file, wherever that might be stored? Or am I reading too much into things here.


Take the following example. Decker X and his team are breaking into a warehouse protected by cameras, and they have to pass 4 of them on their chosen route in and out (8 total). He wants to hack into the host the cameras are slaved to and edit the team out of the video recordings.

Assumption: I was under the impression that one could use Snoop and Edit File to accomplish the above, but I'm now starting to wonder if this is not possible. I see three options for Decker X in terms of minimizing the number of hacks needed.

Preferred (least amount of hacks, possibly not viable):
1. Decker X uses a Complex Action: Hack on the Fly [Sleaze] and obtains a MARK on Host Y
2. Decker X uses a Complex Action: Snoop [Sleaze] all traffic going to and from the host
3. Decker X uses a series of Complex Action: Edit File [Data Processing] actions as the team moves through the building in order to edit out the team's movements from the video feeds coming from individual cameras slaved to the host

2 opposed tests, no attack actions needed.
Verdict: Ghost in the Machine.


Option 1 (more hacks needed, builds more OS):
1. Decker X uses a Complex Action: Hack on the Fly [Sleaze] and obtains a MARK on Host Y
2. Decker X uses a Complex Action: Enter Host [Data Processing, presumably]
3. Decker X uses a Complex Action: Hack on the Fly [Sleaze] and obtains a MARK on File Z
   3a. OPTIONAL - Decker X uses a complex action to Crack File [Attack] to gain access to the video recording file stored on the host (assuming the file is protected)
   3b. OPTIONAL - If the file is protected and the protection is broken, the host is now alerted that it's under attack and Patrol IC may be looking for the hacker
4. Decker X uses a Complex Action: Edit File [Data Processing] to remove the team's movements from the video recording file

At least 3 opposed tests, probable alert.
Verdict: Not bad, grasshopper.


Option 2 (significantly more hacks needed, builds an insane amount of OS in a very short time)
1. Decker X uses a Complex Action: Hack on the Fly [Sleaze] to hack an individual camera
2. Repeat 1

Potentially 7 or 8 individual opposed tests; tricky for large buildings with multiple key locks and cameras.
Verdict: Nuke it from orbit...

Thoughts?

[Namikaze]

Edit File on page 239 states that you can continuously edit a video feed by expending one Complex Action per combat turn. Snoop on page 242 specifies that you can "listen to, view, or read this data live" as long as you have a MARK on your target. Does this mean the only way to edit a video feed is to obtain a MARK on the video file, wherever that might be stored? Or am I reading too much into things here.

If I understand your train of thought, you have taken a step or two too many.  Here's the example you gave, but with what I would consider the ideal setup:

First thing, Decker X needs to get access to the Host.  There are two good ways to do this.  First, you could wirelessly hack the camera that is slaved to the Host.  Assuming the camera is slaved and not running independently, this will give Decker X access to the Host without having to penetrate the Host's firewall.  Generally a camera will have less firewall rating than a host, so this is a good option.  Second option: Decker X uses his Hardware skill to create a physical connection to the camera.  This will give him the same access to the Host, and bypass both the camera's and the Host's firewall ratings.  It also means that (barring some bad rolls) no one is aware that Decker X has access to the system.  The drawback, of course, is that Decker X is locked to a physical location and must stay within about a meter of the camera to maintain his connection.

Second step, Decker X needs to edit the data streams.  Assuming Decker X has access to the Host via one of the two methods stated above, he just needs to do Matrix Perception to find the camera data streams.  He will need to get a MARK on each of the data streams (files).  Then he uses Edit File on each stream.

Basically, you need a MARK on the file that you want to edit.  But you don't necessarily need a MARK on the Host.  You can bypass the MARK requirement on the Host by simply plugging in to the camera.  However, you're still looking at 4 tests to get MARKs on the cameras, then continuous tests for the Edit File action.  Since the task is pretty straightforward, I would probably only require the MARK acquisition tests.  Unless you wanted to try to edit the footage to look like someone else was in the camera's view, anyway.

[Herr Brackhaus]

That's my question, though. Can you not edit the snooped data stream with just the MARK on the host? The video has to be a file to be editable?

In a building with a lot of cameras and/or door locks and/or other security systems (pressure sensors, motion sensors, the list grows large pretty fast), how can a decker be expected to bypass said security devices without pausing to reboot at some point because of accumulated Overwatch Score?

[Namikaze]

That's my question, though. Can you not edit the snooped data stream with just the MARK on the host? The video has to be a file to be editable?

The video is a file.  The Snoop action does nothing for editing the file, that's what the Edit File action is for.  If you're wanting to use the camera for overwatch AND edit the video feed, it's two actions.

In a building with a lot of cameras and/or door locks and/or other security systems (pressure sensors, motion sensors, the list grows large pretty fast), how can a decker be expected to bypass said security devices without pausing to reboot at some point because of accumulated Overwatch Score?

First off, the Overwatch Score won't mean anything so long as the decker is inside a Host.  Only once the decker exits the Host will his Overwatch Score mean something again.  If the decker is careful about it, they should be able to just jack out from the Matrix while still in the Host.  Secondly, never forget how powerful the Hardware skill can be.  Once you have access to a slaved device with a physical connection, you have access to the Host as well.

[JackVII]

First off, the Overwatch Score won't mean anything so long as the decker is inside a Host.

@Namikaze:

  Convergence can happen in a Host. There's a section dedicated to it on p. 247. I'm not sure I understand some of your suggestions either. Here are my thoughts.

First, you could wirelessly hack the camera that is slaved to the Host.  Assuming the camera is slaved and not running independently, this will give Decker X access to the Host without having to penetrate the Host's firewall.  Generally a camera will have less firewall rating than a host, so this is a good option.

When you wirelessly hack a device slaved to a Host, you are dealing with the Host's Firewall due to the WAN. The good news is that the camera only uses its DR for one part of the test, so it should be resisting with something like DR (2) + Host Firewall (X). X really depends on how tough the Host is. If you manage to MARK the camera, you manage to place a MARK on the Host at the same time and can enter it, meaning you are considered to be direct connected to any other devices slaved to the Host.

Second option: Decker X uses his Hardware skill to create a physical connection to the camera.  This will give him the same access to the Host, and bypass both the camera's and the Host's firewall ratings.  It also means that (barring some bad rolls) no one is aware that Decker X has access to the system.  The drawback, of course, is that Decker X is locked to a physical location and must stay within about a meter of the camera to maintain his connection.

In this case, if you manage to get a direct physical connection to the device, the device is only resisting with its own DR and Firewall, which are usually the same and no more than a combined pool of 4 to 6. Gaining access may or may not require a Hardware roll, it kind of depends on the GM. The good news is, if the device in question is slaved to the Host, you can MARK the host when you MARK the device and enter the Host. You can then unplug and still stay logged into the Host, moving around as needed rather than being tethered to the device.

[Herr Brackhaus]

Agreed on the ways of hacking into the host.

I think my issue is with the perception that the data flowing between camera and host is a file; the matrix chapter specifically mentions datastreams, which is what I presumed you were listening to with a snoop action, so my logic brain then went "well, if I can view the data stream after snooping it, I should be able to edit it".

Logic and Shadowrun doesn't always go hand in hand, I guess.

I still don't see how a hacker can bypass more than 10-15 devices on average without having to reboot in the middle of the run, except by being a technomancer.

[Namikaze]

First off, the Overwatch Score won't mean anything so long as the decker is inside a Host.

@Namikaze:

  Convergence can happen in a Host. There's a section dedicated to it on p. 247. I'm not sure I understand some of your suggestions either. Here are my thoughts.

This confusion is caused by the casualness of my writing.  Convergence (as far as the dump and fry) does not happen inside a host.  Instead, the host is given free reign to dump you and fry you themselves.