[Medicineman]

What I really get from your statement is 'I don't care what CGL may have already done in addressing my issues, I want them addressed the way I've already decided they should be addressed, and get it done yesterday, already.'  Which is fine; you can say that.  Don't expect it to actually happen, though.

then You're getting it totally Wrong !
What You should get is:
Dear CGL, it's OK that You have Missions FAQ,  but (please ) make Your changes officially by presenting an Erratta because ( like with every other RPG or Manual ) only an Erratta is valid !
and also
Why ( the Hell) are some of the Missions Rules different from the BBB. why isn't the Big Basic Book the Basseline of Your  Edition of Shadowrun ?
---
If You read my last Post with this in the Back of Your Head you'll understand me better

HokaHey
Medicineman

[Darzil]

Why ( the Hell) are some of the Missions Rules different from the BBB. why isn't the Big Basic Book the Basseline of Your  Edition of Shadowrun ?

As I understand it, the rules are balanced for campaigns with one GM, whereas Mission Rules have to be balanced for one offs, and for multiple missions with different GMs.

Personally I think it's a shame that errata seem to take so long to come out. I'm not sure why it is necessary to wait til you have a whole edited volume of Errate in a pdf download, rather than posting them in a blog somewhere (where they might get discussed), and then collecting them later. I imagine though, that the reason is that it's nobodies job, and an errata doesn't directly make money (though it does indirectly, a quickly errata'd rulebook would get more praise, a better reputation, and would ultimately be played more).

[mjack]

STOP IT 

We originally had another incredible meaningful discussion about calibers in Shadowrun ... Things are getting pretty offtopic now.

[SquirrelDude]

So many damage values.

Also, I totally didn't get distracted and decide to create a spreadsheet that has every firearm's (sans assault cannons/exotics) stat line, including their price, rating, and attachments that come standard. 

[Namikaze]

ROFL SquirrelDude.    I think maybe now you can appreciate why all ammo is typed by weapon category, rather than caliber?  I actually have no problem with adjusting to a caliber-driven system, but it has to be abstracted to keep myself sane.

[Shaidar]

Now you're starting to see why...

It has been tried many times all the way back to SR1, and it doesn't work out well.

If you want more realism try out GURPS Cyberpunk with GURPS Fantasy Races thrown in.

It is much more work than it is worth.

[SquirrelDude]

Honestly, even after looking at it, I still find it relatively easy to imagine a game where calibers are used instead of weapon damage values. The biggest issues with this are the sniper and sporting rifles, which have damage values that jump all over the place.

Even with GH3, Machine guns require a little bit of parsing down, but everything else is easy.

[mjack]

Honestly, even after looking at it, I still find it relatively easy to imagine a game where calibers are used instead of weapon damage values.

Of course it works. Just a different solution to apply damage codes to weapons. But if you are looking for some acceptance for your homebrew you should consider to make not that many changes to the existent system. Tweaking stats is not only more work, but also makes it less compatible with future releases because of constant conversion required. Not to mention those people (essentially those with who you play) who do not like how you tweak and convert. Something practical should be build on top of the current rules.

The biggest issues with this are the sniper and sporting rifles, which have damage values that jump all over the place.

You might assume these guns using less common calibers and associate them with special purpose cartridges. Pretty simple and not unusual for both firearm classes.

I went all the way you are currently going. Investigating SR firearms, reading about different more or less common calibers, working out different approaches and cramming my desk with tons of notes. I had fun doing it because I love keeping my brain busy in my free time with such stuff. And although I never seriously planned to pick up this house rule at my table I asked my players to assess. Expectedly, feedback was not that good with counterarguments meanwhile being well known and absolutely valid.

Namikaze made a good point here. Abstract the system as much as possible and do not be afraid of compromises reflecting less realism in favor of playability. My suggestion on page 2 of this thread is the current state of development I came up with after getting to this realization. Keep it simple, stupid

I hope this helps - at least a bit - to find your very own key to the implementation of calibers in YourGame™.

[SquirrelDude]

It's more fun as a thought experiment than something I'd try to implement in a game, especially not one that required a large variety of weapons. I'll still keep it all in my back pocket for a rainy day, and the feedback on how to do it was very helpful. Again, I think it can be done, but it's a change to the basic rules of the system, so it's inherently very complicated.

I'll keep in my back pocket for a rainy day (in the desert) that it will be helpful, but I'm going to to put so much focus on things that I don't expect to use in a game.

[Tarislar]

What You should get is:
Dear CGL, it's OK that You have Missions FAQ,  but (please ) make Your changes officially by presenting an Erratta because ( like with every other RPG or Manual ) only an Erratta is valid !

Bull has the ability to address glaring single issues like the Mystic PP's 2v5 & Rainforest Carbine 11v14 w/o waiting for errata on the entire product to be completed.  After all, errata comes in Minor-Moderate-Huge sized problems. 
What is better, getting some quick fixes out on those HUGE ones quickly, or letting them hang around till every Minor spelling issue is resolved for a full errata on a 400 page book? 
Me, I like that he gets some big stuff addressed early.

[Medicineman]

for Me & at my tables I don't care about either Missions FAQ or Erratta , I'm using Houserules that fit our gaming style.
(I keep informed by reading FAQs and the Forums but I make my own decisions which rules I use and which I don't)
But for RAW Gaming Sessions at  Conventions only the Books and official Errattas are what's important
and thats a fact not a matter of opinion

HokaHey
Medicineman

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

For RAW Gaming Sessions at conventions, using the Missions rules - despite the claim that Germans don't use Missions - is a good blanket solution.  YMMV, and clearly yours does, Medicineman, but we're not talking just about you at the moment ...

[Medicineman]

 

ok , let me rephrase it
  not as important here in Germany than they are in the US .
there are some Missions groups...
 even one of my 3 SR4A  rounds is a former SR3 Missions round
but nevertheless  the US Missions are (relatively) unknown around here
and far less important
HokaHey
Medicineman

I only wrote that Missions are not as important in Germany.
And just to make Sure You understand that its different in German conventions :
 There are officially supported Shadowruns (from Pegasus)
but there's more often private Rounds , private People meeting there for a Game of Shadowrun
(and for them its mostly either : "we play RAW "or the GM says :" I've got the following Houserules"....)
 

with a Dance in the right Claim
Medicineman
P.S. maybe one of the Mods could cut & transport this part of the Disussion in another Thread ?

[Ursus Maior]

It's a fun thing to tinker with in your mind. And I absolutely agree, the ammo-per-weapon-type idea is not one of my favorite SR-ideas. But what would your solution mean for your players? Any net hits there? A huge system will simply mean you have to have a catalogue and then keep an even more complex list who owns how much ammo of what type and configuration. And then: Many weapons can fire diffrent types of calibres by purchasing after market products. How would you take that into account? AR-15 in 7,62 anyone?

What I do is allow certain types of ammo to work in specific (houseruled) weapons. Like a plinking rifle (c.f. GH3) that uses light pistol ammo and uses SMG rangebands. But these are easter-eggs for me.