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chemical seal

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gradivus

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« on: <11-26-15/0158:21> »
If A Red Samurai is wearing Heavy Mil-Spec Armor w/chemical seal, does the helmet also have to pay for chemical seal?

If that's how it is (and I'm afraid that it is) then the helmet only has 2 capacity for vision enhancement and communications :(
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Jack_Spade

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« Reply #1 on: <11-26-15/0341:31> »
No, since the helmet is part of the armor (can't be exchanged) it is automatically part of the chemical seal.
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Lucean

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« Reply #2 on: <11-26-15/0346:54> »
Chemical Seal mentions that i can only work with specially enclosed armors including helmets. Since the rules don't say that the helmets also need that modification, why would you assume it? Take it from RAW, sometimes it works :)

MijRai

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« Reply #3 on: <11-26-15/1111:13> »
What these two said.
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #4 on: <11-26-15/1354:31> »
Quote from: Core pg 437, Armor Modifications
Chemical seal: Available only to full body armor that includes a helmet, the chemical seal is an airtight environmental control that takes a Complex Action to activate (if you’re already wearing the armor, natch). It provides complete protection against contact and inhalation vector chemicals, but can only be used for a total of an hour (the limit of the air supply) at a time.
Now here's a question... it outright says "full body armor". Which some would interpret to mean the specific item called "Full Body Armor" listed on pg 436. Avail 15, with a pricetag for the suit, a modifier for the helmet, and a modifier for the Chem Seal. No mention of using up Capacity, but it does say that the helmet still has 6 Capacity for vision enhancements and such.

But Helmets and Chem Seals are also listed on pg 438, with their own price tags, their own Capacity usage, etc. Which would mean that you can add Chem Seal to any full suit of armor, not just the "Full Body Armor" itself. Which is where I think OP is coming from. You could buy an Armored Clothing outfit, with a helmet, and add Chem Seal... it just uses up Capacity and costs whatever it costs. So does the required Capacity 6 for Chem Seal use up the available Capacity 6 in a store bought helmet? Or is there 6 more Capacity implied to helmets, reserved just for Chem Seal? Does the guy wearing Chem Sealed Armored Clothing and a motorcycle helmet, still have room left for vision enhancements?

Just wanted to point out that you can't always "do what it says", since we all know these books require a lot of cross referencing to get a clear picture. And sometimes there are contradictory rules that would confuse players instead. I agree, the easiest way to handle it is to say "Full Body Armor" says it can have vision mods, so the Armored Clothing guy can too. Or if they really meant for Chem Seal to only work for "Full Body Armor" then they should take it off the chart that also lists Nonconductive and Shock Frills.
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Reaver

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« Reply #5 on: <11-26-15/2125:44> »
Well, armored clothing leaves a LOT of gaps.

Your neck is exposed.
Its a jacket/shirt so your wrists are exposed.
The outfit is held on by buttons or a simple zipper....

Or at least that is what I see when I hear "Armored clothes".... they are clothes, but armored..

And motorcycle helmets don't seal around your head! (That would sufficate you!)

however when you look at Full Body Armor, military armor and a few sekect others, they appear to be complete systems, covering you head to toe and finger tips....

I guess if your idea of "armored clothing" is a giant set of footie pajamas with a built in head covering (probably complete with rabbit ears....) that may work....


But I would suggest you have other problems that point...
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Reaver

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« Reply #6 on: <11-26-15/2130:31> »
I would guess that you could include chem protection on a fully closed helmet if you want, but it wouldn't provide protection to contact chems (again, your neck is exposed) but would provide protection against inhaled toxins/drugs/fluffy animal dandruff...
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Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #7 on: <11-26-15/2154:18> »
Like I said though, Chem Seal is listed two different ways in the book. It's listed specifically for the Full Body Armor item, as a couple of Avail modifiers and some extra ¥ spent. WIth no mention of using up Capacity or anything.

And then it's listed as a form of Armor add-on for anything you buy. So it should just be a matter of fluff to say that your particular Armored Clothing outfit includes a Tactleneck shirt and a helmet. Then you pay the extra cost, account for the Capacity, and taa daa you've got a Chem Sealed outfit.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.

MijRai

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« Reply #8 on: <11-26-15/2253:25> »
No, it isn't.  It has the written description that explains what it does, then on the next page the cost and capacity in the table with the other armor modifications, just like every other armor modification (and pretty much everything else in the equipment section too).  They aren't mutually exclusive.

So no, it is not a matter of fluff; the item specifies what it can be put on in one spot, and what it takes to apply it to what it is compatible with along with the other modifications. 
Would you want to go into a place where the resident had a drum-fed shotgun and can see in the dark?

Marcus Gideon

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« Reply #9 on: <11-27-15/0042:07> »
Quote from: Core pg 436, Clothing and Armor chart
Full Body Armor - Armor Rating 15 - Avail 14R - Cost 2,000¥
- Full helmet - Armor Rating +3 - Avail n/a - Cost +500¥
- Chemical Seal - Armor Rating n/a - Avail +6 - Cost +6,000¥
- Environmental Adaptation - Armor Rating n/a - Avail +3 - Cost +1,000¥
So to apply the Chem Seal to the Full Body Armor, first you have to purchase the Helmet for 500¥. And then you have to increase the overall Avail and also pay 6,000¥.

Quote from: Core pg 438, Armor Modification table
Chemical Seal - Capacity 6 - Avail 12R - Cost 3,000¥
...
Helmet - Armor Rating +2 - Avail 2 - Cost 100¥
Here we are told that you can feasibly apply Chem Seal to any piece of armor, so long as you have 6 Capacity to spare. It costs 1/2 as much as the Full Body Armor application. And the helmet costs 1/5 as much for only +1 Armor less.

So... they are two completely different applications of the same modification. Either it was meant to be something that only gets used on "Full Body Armor" itself, and it should not have an entry in the Modifications chart. Or the folks who buy it as a package deal with their "Full Body Armor" are getting ripped off, paying 2x the price for the mod and 5x the price for the helmet. If it's supposed to be available to any armor, so long as it covers your full body, then you just need to specify that your Armored Clothing covers you completely. Or that your Chameleon Suit covers you (which is should anyway in order to cloak you effectively). Which, since there isn't anything in the book about paying extra for full coverage... is just fluff.
The Matrix is everywhere. It is all around us. Even now, in this very room. You can see it when you look out your window or when you turn on your television. You can feel it when you go to work…when you go to church…when you pay your taxes.