[anchoress]

Allright, hi there, folks 

You helped me out so much in my first thread, where i was just confused about what type of character to fit into a certain group, thank you again for that help. Now i came up with two certain ideas, a rigger and a face. I will present both of them here in seperate threads, so we can discuss their builds individually. Okay, with this out of the way, let's get started! Here are the rules how i am allowed to build this character:
- Karma generation
- 850 points available for chargen and +100 afterwards (yes, combination with JoaT is safe and possible, allthoug i wanted to avoid too much powerplay)
- +50.000 Nuyen after chargen
- Qualities are allowed to be + / - 35 instead of 25
- Skill ratings are allowed to be set to a value of 8 instead of 6 at chargen
- all books and supplements are available

And this will be the group I'm playing with:
- Elf Combat Mage / Summoner (Our main damage dealer, utility guy [via Spirits] and "try to be the" face, due to lack of a real one)
- Human Decker (Our LOG bomb [R9], high values in almost all LOG related skills)
- Street Sam (the classic, Longarms, 'ware, nothing fancy, but reliable)

From time to time one or both of this characters will take part, too:
- Human Street Sam (heavily cybered, almost all limbs, focus on heavy pistols and melee)
- Orc Street Shaman (never played with him, but heard he is focused on healing and a bit utility)

So, and this is my second idea: the Face!
btw, klick here for the thread about my rigger idea: http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=23016.msg423805#msg423805
and here for the thread in which we talked about the best fitting character concepts http://forums.shadowruntabletop.com/index.php?topic=22928.msg421970#msg421970

Like for my rigger, the background is not finished yet. I try to cover, what i've got so far:
- Human, male, born in China
- was part of a Con from early on, worked as a negotiator and intermediary
- after his awakeing he tried to get comfy with the Wuxing tradition, but felt more comfortable with Shintoism, so he arranged something, got extracted and transfered to japan
- a member of his family got killed in Seattle
- the widow of his (brother maybe?) is a very influential person (= friends in high places) and wants Shaojie to investigate in the death of their brother and husband (because the police is not interested in getting their heads blown up while searching for some random japanese guy... yes, he was the husband of a local high judge, but not important by himself)
- so he gets into the shadows and tries to adpot (= Jack of all Trades), searching for people with more knowledge about the shadow community

Allright, this is it so far. I'm not sure, if i will stick with this idea until the end, but this is what i am working on:

== Info ==
Street Name: Chilong (yes, i guess you figured this out already  )
Name: Shaojie Zhang
Movement: 4/8
Human
Composure: 11
Judge Intentions: 11
Lift/Carry: 5 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 8

== Attributes ==
BOD: 3
AGI: 2
REA: 3
STR: 2
CHA: 6
INT: 5
LOG: 3
WIL: 5
EDG: 3
MAG: 6

450 Karma spent

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   6
Initiative:                8 + 1d6
Astral Initiative:         10 + 2d6
Physical Damage Track:     10
Stun Damage Track:         11

== Limits ==
Physical:                  4
Mental:                    6
Social:                    9
Astral:                    9

== Active Skills ==
Con                        : 6 [Fast Talk]          Pool: 15 (17)
Etiquette                  : 3 [Corporate]          Pool: 12 (14)
Negotiation                : 6 [Bargaining]         Pool: 15 (17)
Perception                 : 1                      Pool: 6
Spellcasting               : 8 [Manipulation]       Pool: 14 (16)

198 Karma spent, so 648 in total

== Knowledge Skills ==
Bars and Clubs             : 3                      Pool: 8
English                    : 3                      Pool: 8
Gangs                      : 1                      Pool: 6
Japanese                   : 2                      Pool: 7
News                       : 1                      Pool: 6
Politics                   : 3                      Pool: 6
Sperethiel                 : 2                      Pool: 7
Sports                     : 1                      Pool: 6
Syndicates                 : 2                      Pool: 7

30 Karma spent, so 678 in total

== Contacts ==
Aljernon; Talismonger (5, 2)
Farley Meyers; Knight Errant Dispatcher (1, 3)
Koby Dick; Fence (5, 2)
Miu Himura; Defense Lawyer (8, 4)
Monica Martins; Tailor (2, 3)
Randy Newport; ID Manufacturer (8, 4)
Sierra Stafford; Journalist (3, 3)

29 Karma spent, so 707 in total

== Qualities ==
Focused Concentration (Rating 6)
Friends in High Places
Mystic Adept
SINner (Corporate Limited) (China)

quality outcome is 52 (MysAd included), so 759 in total

== Spells ==
(Tradition: Shinto, Resist Drain with WIL + CHA (11))
Detect Enemies, Extended   DV: F
Improved Invisibility      DV: F-1
Increase [Attribute] (CHA) DV: F-3
Increase Reflexes          DV: F
Influence                  DV: F-1
Levitate                   DV: F-2
Magic Fingers              DV: F-2
Mind Probe                 DV: F
Spatial Sense, Extended    DV: F-1
Stunbolt                   DV: F-3

50 Karma spent, so 809 in total

== Powers ==
Combat Sense Rating: 1
Cool Resolve Rating: 3
Facial Sculpt Rating: 1
Keratin Control
Magic Sense
Melanin Control
Nimble Fingers
Voice Control Rating: 1

30 Karma spent, so 839 in total

== Lifestyles ==
Takoma, medium,  1 months

== Armor ==
Armor Jacket                        12

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 1   Accuracy: 4   DV: 2S   AP: -   RC: 2

== Commlink ==
Sony Emperor (ATT: 0, SLZ: 0, DP: 2, FWL: 2)

== Gear ==
Fake License (Mage License) Rating 4
Fake SIN (Consultant) Rating 4
Subvocal Mic
Trodes

9 Karma for Nuyen spent, so 848 in total

So, this is it. I have to admit, i have not spend the 100 extra karma points yet, as well as the 50.000 Nuyen! This is because, i am not sure how JoaT works - does it affect knowledge skills as well? Couldn't find any final statement or errata. What i am left with right now is:
2 Karma + 100 after Chargen
380 NY + 50.000 after Chargen
If you have some ideas please let me know! I asked my GM if he has a suggestion for a second attack type. He recommended me to pick another spell. But i often red in this forum that it is a good thing to pick up a mundane weapon instead of only going with spells. But on the other hand: our "battle" mage has an Ares Alpha as well, and i can't remember of one situation in the last year where he used it ^^ So maybe there is no real punishment in my group for being mage only. But maybe this will improve in the future while we are making more experiences. Not sure  What do you think?

[falar]

Mainly, this looks pretty solid. I have to recommend some Assensing though. You mentioned another mage, but just like multiple Perception checks are never bad, multiple Assensing checks are never bad either.

Honestly, I'd probably pick up a little more Agility and probably Automatics with a spec in Machine Pistols or SMGs.

Other than that - foci, bro, foci. You need a sustaining foci for Improved Reflexes, Improved Charisma and Combat  Sense. Power foci is practically required too.

[anchoress]

First, thanks for the fast responses, falar. You are always one of the early ciritcs. Thanks for that  Now, to your points:

Mainly, this looks pretty solid. I have to recommend some Assensing though. You mentioned another mage, but just like multiple Perception checks are never bad, multiple Assensing checks are never bad either.

The thing is: Our other magician is able to project, but has only one point in assensing, which gives him 5 or 6 dice. So not really good, tbh. Not sure what the shaman has in store, though, but the player is more fluff then min-max oriented. So yeah, assensing could be helpful. But i cannot project astrally! I could only take the adept power which lets me take a look "through the window", but i wouldn't be able to roam around. I thought that in this case, Magic Sense is cheaper and more effective. Since i will be able to detect magic objects and creatures in a radius of 60m, which is pretty potent! Not as detailed as assensing, but way faster - because it is always on. What do you think?

Honestly, I'd probably pick up a little more Agility and probably Automatics with a spec in Machine Pistols or SMGs.

Yeah, thought about that. But raising AGI to 3 (15 karma) and picking up the Automatics skill on R 3 with spec (9 [due to JoaT] + 7) would be an investment of 31 karma for something i might never use. I could initiate twice for that  But maybe it could save the char in dicey situations... or i pick up pistols, to use even more concealable weapons like holdouts. But i know, automatics are OP and offer a weapon for each situation (it's a bit sad, actually).

Other than that - foci, bro, foci. You need a sustaining foci for Improved Reflexes, Improved Charisma and Combat  Sense. Power foci is practically required too.

I have 100 karma and 50k Nuyen left, so let's not be shy    I will be able to sustain Inc Att CHA via the Focused Concentration Quality. I can swap it for Increased Reflexes when the shit hits the fan. But a Qi Focus for Combat sense could be very helpful (2 more dice of defence). Also, a Power Focus is a very good idea! More spellcasting dice? Yes, please 

[falar]

Mainly, this looks pretty solid. I have to recommend some Assensing though. You mentioned another mage, but just like multiple Perception checks are never bad, multiple Assensing checks are never bad either.

The thing is: Our other magician is able to project, but has only one point in assensing, which gives him 5 or 6 dice. So not really good, tbh. Not sure what the shaman has in store, though, but the player is more fluff then min-max oriented. So yeah, assensing could be helpful. But i cannot project astrally! I could only take the adept power which lets me take a look "through the window", but i wouldn't be able to roam around. I thought that in this case, Magic Sense is cheaper and more effective. Since i will be able to detect magic objects and creatures in a radius of 60m, which is pretty potent! Not as detailed as assensing, but way faster - because it is always on. What do you think?

I somehow missed the fact that you're a Mystic Adept and not a Mage. Derp.

A Qi Focus with Astral Perception and Assensing is still worth it, but maybe a bit further down on the priority list. If your GM is worth his salt, he'll make the investment worth it.

Yeah, thought about that. But raising AGI to 3 (15 karma)

Agility is just a super-handy attribute to have a good score in. It, along with Logic, are the king "doing things" attributes. Also, remember, it sets your movement rates and that can be really important in certain stituations.

Other than that - foci, bro, foci. You need a sustaining foci for Improved Reflexes, Improved Charisma and Combat  Sense. Power foci is practically required too.

I have 100 karma and 50k Nuyen left, so let's not be shy    I will be able to sustain Inc Att CHA via the Focused Concentration Quality. I can swap it for Increased Reflexes when the shit hits the fan. But a Qi Focus for Combat sense could be very helpful (2 more dice of defence). Also, a Power Focus is a very good idea! More spellcasting dice? Yes, please 

Honestly, I'd see about swapping something out for the Adept Power Increase Reflexes. It's just easier to have the always-on power and it gets you Reaction. But it's really tough to spend those 6 or 7 points as a MysAd because you won't get more.

[gradivus]

Guys with 8 connection aren't just defense lawyers

Well-connected across a multi-state region; an executive in a state
government or a national corporation.CRBp387

So instead of a defense lawyer- Executive in ACLU who is also a lawyer

Instead of ID manufacturer- Head of Special Operations at a A Corp that can't get you fake IDs among other things.

[anchoress]

Guys with 8 connection aren't just defense lawyers

Well-connected across a multi-state region; an executive in a state
government or a national corporation.CRBp387

So instead of a defense lawyer- Executive in ACLU who is also a lawyer

Instead of ID manufacturer- Head of Special Operations at a A Corp that can't get you fake IDs among other things.

Sorry, the lawyer was a relic before picking up the FiHP Quality. But good ideas, will go back and put them in. Thanks a lot 

[gradivus]

Here's my version of a Social Adept using the 850 plus 100 post chargen:
850                        
-40   Elf                     
-65   MysAd w/6PP(Vodou)                     
-25   BOD   3                  
0   AGI   2                  
-45   REA   4                  
-10   STR   2                  
-25   WIL   3                  
-10   LOG   2                  
-45   INT   4                  
-150   CHA   8                  
-100   MR   6                  
335                        
-105   Influence SG 6                     
-49   Con|FastTalk 6|+2                     
-49   Spellcasting|Manipulation 6|+2                     
-49   Summoning|Manipulation 6|+2                     
83                        
-8   Friends in High Places                     
-15   Trust Fund: High                     
-10   Prototype Transhuman                     
0   *Allergy Common Mild…seafood maybe?                     
17   Creature of Comfort:High                     
15   Sinner:Limited Corporate Sony                     
      I suggest making one of the high level contacts the Special Operation Director for
                North America(Sony)                  
3   Did You just Call Me Dumb?                     
-2   Jack of All Trades, Master of None                     
83                        
-34.875   Used Tailored Phermones[3]                     
-6.375   Used Platelet factories                     
-1   Erika Blue Defender and a Metalink                     
-1.1   Rating 1 Sin w/magic license                     
-8.145   Vashon Island: Sleeping Tiger       13                     
      +Chemical Protection 2                     
      +Concealed Pocket                     
      +Custom Fit                     
      +Electrochromic Clothing                     
      +Fire Resistance 2                     
      +Newest Model                     
      +Nonconductivity 5                     
      +Ruthenium Polymer Coating 3                     
0.495   990   nuyen for whatever                  
32                        
-30   6 Spells   Look up possesion and Task and Guardian Spirits before picking spells                  
2                        
   At this point ou have 2 Karma for whatever, cash if you want or  rating 1 skill                     
   Confirmed by developers and also in German version, you are now entitled
        (INT+LOG)*2 free knowledge and Charisma*3 free Contacts (or *6 if you are
        using Prime Runer)                     
   You are also entitled to CHA*4 contacts from Friends in high Places.                     
                        
100                        
-8   Focused Concentration [1] for Increase Reflex spell cast at Force 1 w/regeants for limits.                     
-8.7   Rating 6 SIN w/Rating 6 Licences- Magic, Security Consultant                     
-10   Mentor Spirit(I suggest Raven for the +2 CON and the adept powers)                     
-20   Magician's Way                     
-29   Initiate 2 Times      Masking, Centering               
24.3                        
   Use the remaining plus JOAT to add perception/arcana and buy some items if you want                     
   Possibly Second Skin to go under Sleeping Tiger
                     
6PP   Adept Powers                     
0.25   Attribute Boost[1]AGI                     
0.5   Commanding Voice Discounted                     
0.5   Cool Resolve{1] Discounted                     
1.5   Authoratative Tone[3]                     
0.25   Facial Sculpt[1]                     
0.5   Body Sculpt Discounted                     
0.25   Improved Sense(Ultrasound)                     
0.5   Keratin Control                     
0.5   Magic Sense                     
0.5   Melanin Control                     
0.25   Nimble Fingers                     
0.5   Combat Sense[1]                     

[Facemage]

For a social adept (not a mysad) those melanin control, keratin control and so on are quite good. They consume quite much power points, so is it even better to use ordinary disguise or adept spell with physical mask? I'm not sure, but I think that a mysad does not need them. A physical mask spell is so much cheaper and does everything for you. Sometimes you cannot use spells, but in every other situation you are much more powerful.

[gradivus]

For a social adept (not a mysad) those melanin control, keratin control and so on are quite good. They consume quite much power points, so is it even better to use ordinary disguise or adept spell with physical mask? I'm not sure, but I think that a mysad does not need them. A physical mask spell is so much cheaper and does everything for you. Sometimes you cannot use spells, but in every other situation you are much more powerful.

The OP had it on her character so my variant on her character kept it.

[Facemage]

For a social adept (not a mysad) those melanin control, keratin control and so on are quite good. They consume quite much power points, so is it even better to use ordinary disguise or adept spell with physical mask? I'm not sure, but I think that a mysad does not need them. A physical mask spell is so much cheaper and does everything for you. Sometimes you cannot use spells, but in every other situation you are much more powerful.

The OP had it on her character so my variant on her character kept it.

Yes, I thought so. I said my comment to op.

[gradivus]

I would probably keep the facial sculpt but yeah, melanin control, keratin control and buodysculpt end up being 3 more levels of combat sense.

[Strange]

Looks pretty solid to me, wouldn't really put in any more combat like melee or ranged skills, unless that is part of your concept.  Did you use karma for all of your knowledge skills and contacts?  Our table goes with the same base knowledge skill points and contact points that are given to the priority builds because the majority says they think that was the intention and will be addressed in the future.

[anchoress]

Sorry i didn't clarified this: We start withc 850 instead of 800 Karma instead of having free points for contacts/knowledge skills. Don't know why exactly (as i said in another thread, i'm fairly new to SR and just follow the orders of my GM), but i guess our GM wants to seperate the spent points on Knowledge Skills/Contacts from the value of attributes - so every character starts with the same pool and not reliant of beeing a high or low attribute type of character. Don't know if i like it, but so it is. Will add this clarification to the first post as well.

@ the physical mask topic: This is a good point. I am not sure, how different the adept powers and the spell are in the end. Woiuld free up a lot of Power Points, but on the other hand it is quite nice to be able to change your appearance "on the fly" without sustaining another spell. Can someone of you tell me, in which situations there would be a difference between this two options? I had never a face in my group and don't really know which type of disguise is "better". Or would the mundane way be the way to go? Confused 

[gradivus]

Looks pretty solid to me, wouldn't really put in any more combat like melee or ranged skills, unless that is part of your concept.  Did you use karma for all of your knowledge skills and contacts?  Our table goes with the same base knowledge skill points and contact points that are given to the priority builds because the majority says they think that was the intention and will be addressed in the future.

It's not that the majority thinks it's the intention...the guy that wrote the section says it is the intention. And the German version specifically addresses the issue and gives both the knowledge and contact points for free.

[Facemage]

anchoress: Your question is difficult, because the rules are unclear.

If you want to act another person without any magic, the test is almost trivial. You can first use your disguise + intuition and later your impersonation + charisma. The enemy uses normal perception + intuition. Technically it's 4 pools vs 2 pools, which should be easy. Especially for faces, who have high charisma and often soft capped intuition.

With physical mask you can replace your disguise skill and at least partly your impersonation skill because the spell give you also a new tone. It does not give you mannerisms so it should be possible to improve the mask by using your impersonation skill. But how the situation is solved? The rules does not help here. In our table we solved this by using first a normal opposed test against an illusion spell and later a normal perception test like in mundane situation in which the hits of the disguise skill are replaced by the hits of the physical mask spell. The caster has to use his impersonation skill. The enemy gets two possibilities to see through the mask but it's still difficult if you have high spellcasting dice pool. This rule is technically a houserule, but there isn't an official rule at all.

With adept powers this is even more difficult. Is it possible to see through the adept powers, like the physical mask spell? How many hits the powers give you against the perception test? Technically, the adept power should maybe be more powerful than the disguise skill, and thus the perception test should be even more difficult than in mundane case. I think that the impersonation skill is still needed.  How the adept powers work in background count? What do you think?

Sustaining the spell should not be difficult because one of the best sustaining focus is illusion (to sustain improved invisibility, physical mask or area illusion spells like chaotic world and hot potato). It's very good focus even without a physical mask spell. And typically if you want to use physical mask, you don't want to use other options. Focused concentration is also very good. However, you may need reagents to get enough hits.