[Seras]

Hi everybody. I have a simple question:

What can a ChopJob do better than a Rigger ? Are Modified characters a leftover from the 80'ties when the game started, and slowly beeing phased out  ?

I have recently noticed a serious decline in cybered charakters.

Those that do not play mages /adepts play riggers.

There is some love for Bioware, but almost none for chrome.

I have thought about it for a while and found the following problems.

1. Rigging is safer than beeing a ChopJob.

A Chop need to be where the action is, a Rigger can hide behind a wall/ or in a car.

2. Rigging is stealthier.

After the job you can just drive your drone into a river or a Junk compressor. No evidence to trace.

Cyber/Bio is part of your body, good luck hiding it.

3. Drones are more flexible. There is a drone for everything.

With Ware you are stuck with what you've got. No meddling.

My guess is, that ChopJobs have a differnt role to play in a team, but it is escaping me. Everybody else seems to do something better.

Thank you for your input

[Michael Chandra]

Drones are extremely squishy in combat, and a decently equipped Drone is worth 10k or more in Hardware alone. The Street Sam can just walk in with 24~36 soak dice, a Drone can drop from a few shots with an Ares Predator. So enjoy getting half your fleet downed by an Ares Alpha and eating two runs of income in expenses while the Street Sam simply takes cover and can soak the shots that hit.

[Jack_Spade]

Yeah, if you think being a Streetsam is expensive, you haven't started to tinker with drones and drone equipment.
The streetsam normally heals on his own, your drones cost quite a lot of dough to put back together if they aren't outright destroyed
Add noise from different sources and an opponent hacker that turns your toys against you and you'll rethink replacing your Streetsam buddy completely.

[Seras]

I have been noticing my group that I GM for was a little ... squishy. ( A Mage, an Adept , a Rigger and a Decker ) I figured they were missing a role and I was right.

This also helps me select Ware ( I was like what the should I choose, there is so much !!) when building main NPC's.

Thaks for the Input !

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Deckers bend Riggers over the table and do very not PG-13 things to them.

Not so much vs Samurai.

The point made upthread about Drones being waaaaaaaay easier to kill/damage than a Sammie is another good one.  Particularly so if you/your GM insists on using the optional Drone modding rules (rather than allowing drones to use the vehicle modding rules).  And I'd recommend he does... if you don't use those rules drones become broken.  No point in using anything other than a tricked out Paladin

[Marcus]

The Radio Star was on the way out anyways.
Wars are fought with weapons but they are won by men. And as it happens cyberware can make men a whole lot better. Vitae rays be damned.

[Myriad]

Hi everybody. I have a simple question:

What can a ChopJob do better than a Rigger ? Are Modified characters a leftover from the 80'ties when the game started, and slowly beeing phased out  ?

Hello!  ChopJobs (Street Sams) tend to have similar dice pools, if not better, don't have to buy fragile drones.  Not sure what the 80s reference was, sorry.

have recently noticed a serious decline in cybered charakters.

Really?  I noticed more magic.

Those that do not play mages /adepts play riggers.

Riggers tend to be a romantic ideal, but can be clunky in play.  Mages are powerful and have 'drones' via spirits and adept is just another color of a 'street samurai'.

There is some love for Bioware, but almost none for chrome.

I have thought about it for a while and found the following problems.

1. Rigging is safer than beeing a ChopJob.

Rigging is quite frankly expensive.  Imagine it like this, you can easily spend 100k on RCC autosofts, roughly that for 10 cheapo drones, and then lose all the drones.  Where as a street samurai can easily spend 200k on augments that can't be taken away and be better/tougher/stronger.

"Jumped in rigger" gets hurt very hard via biofeedback damage.  A street sam will eventually get pain editor, soak, etc, that makes them much tougher/safer than any rigger.

A Chop need to be where the action is, a Rigger can hide behind a wall/ or in a car.

Oddly enough, you can be a good on the grounds street samurai with a drone and do 90% of the rigging duties.  Simply having a good reaction and some pilot skill will allow you to 'drive well enough' and drone usage is not limited to a rigger.

2. Rigging is stealthier.

I agree on this, mainly because no street samurai I've known can fit inside a sewer pipe to come out of a toilet and plant a grenade (via the festo sewer snake).

After the job you can just drive your drone into a river or a Junk compressor. No evidence to trace.

But all that nuyen lost... no, just no.

Cyber/Bio is part of your body, good luck hiding it.

SR5 has licenses, and its rare to have a high enough cyberware scanner to actually see this stuff.  Geneware is undetectable, etc.

3. Drones are more flexible. There is a drone for everything.

With enough nuyen/karma, you are flexible.

With Ware you are stuck with what you've got. No meddling.

With enough karma/nuyen, you are flexible.

My guess is, that ChopJobs have a differnt role to play in a team, but it is escaping me. Everybody else seems to do something better.

Thank you for your input

Your welcome, they play the role very similar to a rigger strength, but their main positive thing is they heal, tougher, generally faster, have similar dice pools if not more in combat, and can easily pick up secondary roles like "face" or become a "jack of all trades."  That said you can easily be a street sam with a drone or a good rcc and be quite good at a lot of the legwork rigging, and combat, still be a badass...

TLDR:  Riggers risk nuyen and may never advance after drone losses.  Sams are tougher and will always have that nuyen inside them so you can't take it without killing them.

[Hobbes]

Hi everybody. I have a simple question:

What can a ChopJob do better than a Rigger ?

Riggers can bring more firepower than a Samurai, more firing platforms and more actions.  Riggers are also usually back up Hackers and general logic skill monkeys.  Drones are also phenomenal recon platforms for getting a quick picture of a target.

Times when a Samurai is typically better than a Rigger.

When the GM says "Roll for Surprise"  Typical Samurai is likely good to go, Riggers typically take some time to wind up. 

Social infiltration. Samurai can get through with licenses, maybe a little hacking assist, concealed weapons and so forth.  A platoon of killer robots, just no. 

Wireless dependency.  Couple issues there.  If wireless signals are blocked, or there is too much Noise, the Rigger literally doesn't even get to play.  If there is Matrix Security the Drones really can't go Wireless off and could get spotted while the Samurai can be Wireless off while sneaking around so Matrix Security isn't an issue for them.   

AoEs, because Grenades happen.  Samurai can roll out of the AoE or possibly even soak the blast.  Drones are likely in a bit more trouble.

Traveling.  Drones don't travel as well as a Samurai.  A little more work is required to move a Rigger and a horde of killer Robots, than a single person. 

Repair bills.  Samurai heal, Drones don't. 

Character Advancement.  Riggers are a bottomless black hole for Karma and Nuyen.  Samurai are usually deadly out of the gate and can branch out into secondary skills right away. 

Easier to play.  Especially for beginners.  Riggers are mechanically complex, Samurai aren't.  (at least as far as Shadowrun goes....)