[Kirklins]

I'd like some opinions, please. 6e specific, prevent characters that may be multi, may be oneshots, because it's for NEW players.

What dice pool range do you feel is minimum for primary skills?

What is your opinion on having one or more rating 1 abilities?

I should note I'm severely restricting use of impaired attributes as I expect it to be constrained in the next errata. Note that's opinion, not knowledge. That may influence your answers.

Thanks.

[ZeroSum]

I think this will largely depend on what the opposition your players will face looks like.

If you're pitting players against PR0 and PR1 mooks, then lower dice pools are fine (opposition is 2-5, so players should be 6-10 if you want them to beat them consistently).

If your intending to run them up against beat cops and eventually SWAT, they'll want higher dicepools (opposition is 4-9, so your players will want 10-14 to again beat them consistently).

There is no right answer here, only what your table is aiming for. If you want them to struggle, have them have similar or even lower dice pools as expected opposition, forcing them to run if confronted.

I personally have no problem with one or more attributes at 1, as long as the players are expecting to be challenged occasionally. If a player of mine considers his character to be virtually incapable of lying, expect him to run into a cop at some point who's got some questions.

That being said, I know some tables are opposed to dumpstats, and that's fine too. All that matters is that you find a balance with your players.

[Michael Chandra]

I'd say 10+ primary, exact depending on how heavy they want to go. But I suggest party balance.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

The game feels like it's written to where 9-12 dice in a dice pool is supposed to be pretty good.  Of course, lots of players feel that anything less than 16 is unacceptable (for your main schtick), so there's some strong variation depending on where your players' tastes are.

[Hobbes]

12 Dice in a skill gets you to buying 3 hits or averaging 4 hits, which are nice breaks for the Threshold tests.  Given you can have a 10 in an attribute with Augmentations, getting 12 Dice for Attribute plus Skill isn't unreasonable. 

Attributes of 1.  Personally I don't care.  Mechanically it means you have 1 dice for tests with that Attribute instead of 2.  That's literally the smallest mechanical difference you can have, but some folks feel otherwise so it's a table or YMMV thing. 

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Having a dice pool of 1 worked better in 5e's Edge system (with high Edge, e.g. the "EdgeLord" archetype).

Not so economical to expand the dice pool by your Edge attribute in 6we.

[Noble Drake]

The game feels like it's written to where 9-12 dice in a dice pool is supposed to be pretty good.  Of course, lots of players feel that anything less than 16 is unacceptable (for your main schtick), so there's some strong variation depending on where your players' tastes are.

This is something I've always been interested by: the way that many gamers will hold to particular beliefs about a game even if deliberate efforts (with results) are made to make those beliefs no longer hold true.

Can't really give examples without derailing this thread with a massive post, but it's just a fun thing to think about.

[Michael Chandra]

If I'm not equaling max PR grunts straight out of chargen I'm doing it wrong. /s

[Hobbes]

If I'm not equaling max PR grunts straight out of chargen I'm doing it wrong. /s

I mean if your character couldn't even make the try outs at the local disposable mook employment agency...

Anyway, this is pretty valid.  Whatever PR the GM is using is a decent baseline for minimum performance.

insert Joker Pool Tryouts meme here.

[Kirklins]

Thank you all.

I was wanting a feel for where I should aim for setting the table, and appreciate the answers. Party balance will largely depend on who shows up.

[skalchemist]

For non-opposed tests, I feel like the table on page 36 plus the 4 dice = 1 success rule gives an answer to this question.  Assume "highly competent" = "can do this thing without risk of failure"

* If you want to be highly competent at very mundane things = 4 dice
* If you want to be highly competent at normal person things = 8 dice
* If you want to be highly competent at Shadowrunner things = 12 dice
* if you want to be highly competent at awesome Shadowrunner things = 16 dice

As an aside, the 4 dice = 1 success rule in all cases at least up to 20 dice saves you roughly a 15% to 20% chance of failure at the Threshold you can "buy off".  This is because in all cases you would have had at least an 80% chance of success at that the threshold you could "buy off" anyway. 

[Michael Chandra]

Just keep in mind your GM has final say in when you can buy hits, if risks actually matter then chances are nope.

[skalchemist]

Just keep in mind your GM has final say in when you can buy hits, if risks actually matter then chances are nope.

I understand that, Michael.  That's why I put in the addendum about the probability.

In my previous post, "highly competent" more accurately means "can do this thing without risk of failure if glitch/serious glitch is not important, or with 20% or less chance of failure if it is".

Although...I admit I am inclined in actual play to say the GM should be more liberal with buying hits than the rules indicate.  It seems like a good way to speed up play quite a lot. 

[Kirklins]

As a rule, I only require rolls when the consequences will be interesting. Most cases of buying the hits fall into that category, with the narrative fillip that it's going easily because skalchemist is just so good at this task il looks routine. Player spotlighted, check. Narrative moved, ch ck. Onward.

[skalchemist]

...with the narrative fillip that it's going easily because skalchemist is just so good at this task il looks routine.

I AM so good I make this s*&% look routine.  Its true.

:-)