[theclaw]

Hello everyone

I've got a quick question:

My players are in a run where they have to get the content of a safe. That safe has some retinal scan and voice activation command (to open :p).

What tools/skills are they supposed to use to open it ? I think I know a good decker can wipe clean the securities, but would he need to be on premise for that ?

Is it Hardware/Locksmith ?

Thanks

[Banshee]

Hello everyone

I've got a quick question:

My players are in a run where they have to get the content of a safe. That safe has some retinal scan and voice activation command (to open :p).

What tools/skills are they supposed to use to open it ? I think I know a good decker can wipe clean the securities, but would he need to be on premise for that ?

Is it Hardware/Locksmith ?

Thanks

Typically the way I run it is that an electronic lock like you described is using electronics skill but old school tumbler (key or combination) would use locksmith.

[Sphinx]

See "Doors, Windows, & Locks," SR5, p.359-360.

A retinal scanner can be defeated with retinal duplication in a cybereye (SR5, p.453). Voiceprint can be defeated with a voice modulator (SR5, p.452). These aren't cheap, but Mr. Johnson might offer the 'ware as part of the team's compensation.

I can't imagine anyone would build wireless functionality or external data ports into a safe lock, so the only way to hack it directly would be a technomancer with the Skinlink echo (Data Trails, p.59).

[Hobbes]

6th is Engineering.  5th is Locksmith for locks, Hardware for the Alarms.  Either edition should be hackable by a Decker or Technomancer unless the safe is a throwback.

5th Edition Demolitions would also be applicable.  I think 6th covers that with Engineering as well.

Or Troll.  Troll > all Locks.

There are multiple Magical ways to safe crack as well depending on the details, I like the Accident power.  Shape material spell works too.  Any number of mind control type spells would work.  So would any Physical Illusion if you really wanted to try to duplicate a retina, pretty tough to do that though.

Gremlins power from a Sprite would also get-r-dun. 

There are also several specialized breaking and entering tools specifically for bypassing Retinal scans and fingerprints if you can get copies.

Locks.  Not really an obstacle.  Really a story telling moment for the PCs to show off their cool abilities/toys.

[Hobbes]

See "Doors, Windows, & Locks," SR5, p.359-360.

A retinal scanner can be defeated with retinal duplication in a cybereye (SR5, p.453). Voiceprint can be defeated with a voice modulator (SR5, p.452). These aren't cheap, but Mr. Johnson might offer the 'ware as part of the team's compensation.

I can't imagine anyone would build wireless functionality or external data ports into a safe lock, so the only way to hack it directly would be a technomancer with the Skinlink echo (Data Trails, p.59).

Eh, it's a wireless world.  People want to open up their locks with a voice or AR button.  Or be able to update who can open a lock.  Or check on things remotely.  Yada, yada.  All the same reasons people want keyless entry and remote starts on their cars today, even though car thieves can now gain access with nothing more than a cellphone.

[Xenon]

Is it Hardware/Locksmith ?

Is it safe to assume you are talking about 5th edition?

That safe has some retinal scan and voice activation command

The safe has a powered magnetic lock (maglock) that instead of a keypad or cardreader use a retinal scan and a voice recognition system.

It can be beaten by:

• Hacking via either direct connection or wireless (mark the lock and then control the lock to open)
• Locksmith skill (to remove casing, to avoid anti-temper system and to rewire inner circuits)
• Cyberware (retinal duplication to fool the retinal scanner and voice modulator to fool the voice recognition system)

[Sphinx]

Eh, it's a wireless world.  People want to open up their locks with a voice or AR button.  Or be able to update who can open a lock.  Or check on things remotely.  Yada, yada.  All the same reasons people want keyless entry and remote starts on their cars today, even though car thieves can now gain access with nothing more than a cellphone.

Fair point. I suppose it depends on whose safe it is, where it is, and what's inside. If it were my safe, there'd be a data port on the inside of the safe door, so I could plug in a commlink and update the voice/retina prints, but no way to change those when the safe is closed and locked.

[Xenon]

The role of the GM is not to build foolproof systems that players have no way of defeating ;-)

[Hobbes]

Eh, it's a wireless world.  People want to open up their locks with a voice or AR button.  Or be able to update who can open a lock.  Or check on things remotely.  Yada, yada.  All the same reasons people want keyless entry and remote starts on their cars today, even though car thieves can now gain access with nothing more than a cellphone.

Fair point. I suppose it depends on whose safe it is, where it is, and what's inside. If it were my safe, there'd be a data port on the inside of the safe door, so I could plug in a commlink and update the voice/retina prints, but no way to change those when the safe is closed and locked.

Absolutely.  Security Professional with a touch of Paranoia?  Would certainly have a Throwback model or something similar.  Corp Suit buying an off the shelf Safe?  Eh, probably Wireless, probably all default settings....

[easl]

If it were my safe, there'd be a data port on the inside of the safe door, so I could plug in a commlink and update the voice/retina prints, but no way to change those when the safe is closed and locked.

The retinal scanner is a detector that sends a signal down a wire to some electronic-component-containing device capable of unlocking the door.  No matter where the "update" system is, no matter if we're talking optical components or not, there's always at least (in principle) three ways to electronically defeat it.
1. Fool the detector into sending the right signal.
2. Bypass the detector to send your own signal down the wire.
3. Bypass detector and wire to send your own signal to the unlocking device.

Most of these take both a 'hardware' and 'software' component. But I agree with Hobbes, it's more important to consider what the story value of a "unlock the safe" scene is and go with that, rather than try and figure out what the real world physics should be. If it's supposed to be scene-unbreakable at the moment or lead them to a different scene in order to break it, make it require a skill or combination of skills the PC's don't have. If it's supposed to be in-scene-breakable, "design" the safe so that their skill selection (or...Troll) can do the job.

[skalchemist]

There are multiple Magical ways to safe crack as well depending on the details, I like the Accident power.  Shape material spell works too.  Any number of mind control type spells would work.  So would any Physical Illusion if you really wanted to try to duplicate a retina, pretty tough to do that though.

I was thinking the same thing when I was reading this thread.  A mage/shaman with the "Shape Metal" and "Shape Plastic" spells would seem to be all that is required for nearly any safe.  In fact, the spellcaster need not even be that good at it, because a single hit is enough to shape 1 cubic meter of material, more than enough to make a useful hole in a safe.  Although I guess anyone serious about their safe's security would ensure that a Ward is cast on it periodically (or permanently), so that would have to be circumvented.

[cantrip]

5th Edition Demolitions would also be applicable.  I think 6th covers that with Engineering as well.
Yes! ^^^

Or Troll.  Troll > all Locks.
And Yes! ^^^

Like how you think @Hobbes!

It would also be fun to go 'Now You See Me' and use Illusion magic to trick the owner of the safe into opening it.