[MercilessMing]

5th Edition Hosts also couldn't have device icons inside of them, but somehow, a hacker inside the host would get an automatic direct connection to all the devices slaved to it - which would have been pointless, because RAW, 

I always have to caveat that I'm no expert in Matrix, I'm one of those people for whom it's the toughest part of the game to wrap my head around, buuut... in 5th, a device being considered directly connected to the host it's slaved to shouldn't be pointless because you still get to negate noise.

Maybe it requires a Matrix Search or a close-up Matrix Perception against the Sleaze rating of the Host (It doesn´t really serve a purpose right now anyways, does it?) to detect the signal presence of the device and also find the host where the icon is hidden? AFAIK, that would be not much different from tracking files that are stored inside a host: The hacker tracks the icon right up to the gates of the host.

Doesn't serve a purpose?  Host ratings cover things protected by the host, like your PAN protects your wireless devices.  Devices running silent that are connected to the host would use the Host Sleaze + Spider's WILL to resist the perception check.  that's RAW. (edit whoops no it's not, since devices I guess don't run silent, personas do... I dunno, makes sense to me though)

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Ok Banshee, I have one for you

A maglock that is protected by a host can be (and probably should be, from the POV of the security manager) not visible on the matrix to personas that are not also inside that same host.  Makes perfect sense for combination or keycard style maglocks, since it cuts down on hacking shenanigans.

What happens when the maglock is opened by a RFID signal (like from an employee ID). That's a wireless interaction, so if the lock is inside the host the ID badge can't transmit the RFID to the host, or can it, even though the maglock can't be "seen" by the ID badge?  Related question: Does the host have to simply allow outsider access to that one device for it to work?

[Banshee]

Ok Banshee, I have one for you

A maglock that is protected by a host can be (and probably should be, from the POV of the security manager) not visible on the matrix to personas that are not also inside that same host.  Makes perfect sense for combination or keycard style maglocks, since it cuts down on hacking shenanigans.

What happens when the maglock is opened by a RFID signal (like from an employee ID). That's a wireless interaction, so if the lock is inside the host the ID badge can't transmit the RFID to the host, or can it, even though the maglock can't be "seen" by the ID badge?  Related question: Does the host have to simply allow outsider access to that one device for it to work?

If it's a legitimate authorized and company issued RFID then it would reside "inside" the host ... ie it has true User access already

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Ok Banshee, I have one for you

A maglock that is protected by a host can be (and probably should be, from the POV of the security manager) not visible on the matrix to personas that are not also inside that same host.  Makes perfect sense for combination or keycard style maglocks, since it cuts down on hacking shenanigans.

What happens when the maglock is opened by a RFID signal (like from an employee ID). That's a wireless interaction, so if the lock is inside the host the ID badge can't transmit the RFID to the host, or can it, even though the maglock can't be "seen" by the ID badge?  Related question: Does the host have to simply allow outsider access to that one device for it to work?

If it's a legitimate authorized and company issued RFID then it would reside "inside" the host ... ie it has true User access already

Well... A) would it though?  Distributed host architecture seems to be the new normal in 6we. Joe Wageslave may need User access to the main/central host to perform his duties, but if he has no legit security-type duties he wouldn't have User access to the Security host? 

B) No way in hell are you going to give his badge its own "user" access into your security host.. you're literally just handing out keys to the host to anyone able to steal a badge that way, aren't you?

[Banshee]

Ok Banshee, I have one for you

A maglock that is protected by a host can be (and probably should be, from the POV of the security manager) not visible on the matrix to personas that are not also inside that same host.  Makes perfect sense for combination or keycard style maglocks, since it cuts down on hacking shenanigans.

What happens when the maglock is opened by a RFID signal (like from an employee ID). That's a wireless interaction, so if the lock is inside the host the ID badge can't transmit the RFID to the host, or can it, even though the maglock can't be "seen" by the ID badge?  Related question: Does the host have to simply allow outsider access to that one device for it to work?

If it's a legitimate authorized and company issued RFID then it would reside "inside" the host ... ie it has true User access already

Well... A) would it though?  Distributed host architecture seems to be the new normal in 6we. Joe Wageslave may need User access to the main/central host to perform his duties, but if he has no legit security-type duties he wouldn't have User access to the Security host? 

B) No way in hell are you going to give his badge its own "user" access into your security host.. you're literally just handing out keys to the host to anyone able to steal a badge that way, aren't you?

I see no reason for it to work any different then current real world technology.

The system scans your card and determines if your authorized for that use... if yes you're good if not you locked out.

Again it comes down to that there is a big difference between true legal access and hacked illegal access. The rules are simply written to represent illegal access because legal access doesn't have to deal with the same issues.

[Stainless Steel Devil Rat]

Ok, "well the rules cover hacking, not legit operations" is fair.

I'm primarily concerned with the interaction of Spoof Command with Outsider access level and "you cant target things 'in' a host unless you're also in that host".  If maglocks can be seen when the GM wants them to be seen, and they can't be seen when the GM doesn't want them to be seen, honestly that works.

[Banshee]

Ok, "well the rules cover hacking, not legit operations" is fair.

I'm primarily concerned with the interaction of Spoof Command with Outsider access level and "you cant target things 'in' a host unless you're also in that host".  If maglocks can be seen when the GM wants them to be seen, and they can't be seen when the GM doesn't want them to be seen, honestly that works.

Ok, well the intent for things like using spoof command on a matlock that inside the host is to prevent arm chair hackers spoofing from outside in the van ... if they have infiltrated and can physically see the device I for one am not going to make them roll perception to spot it but they still have to access it via the host

[Hobbes]

Ok Banshee, I have one for you

A maglock that is protected by a host can be (and probably should be, from the POV of the security manager) not visible on the matrix to personas that are not also inside that same host.  Makes perfect sense for combination or keycard style maglocks, since it cuts down on hacking shenanigans.

What happens when the maglock is opened by a RFID signal (like from an employee ID). That's a wireless interaction, so if the lock is inside the host the ID badge can't transmit the RFID to the host, or can it, even though the maglock can't be "seen" by the ID badge?  Related question: Does the host have to simply allow outsider access to that one device for it to work?

If it's a legitimate authorized and company issued RFID then it would reside "inside" the host ... ie it has true User access already

Between the User Persona, personal commlink PAN, the Device Icon for the RFID and the Host there is something eventually not slaved to the Host and not "in" the Host.  The User Persona has User Access to the RFID, but is probably not slaved to the Host.  That RFID would be controlled, somehow, by the User's personal Commlink.  Which is probably not slaved to the Host in many cases.  (Some Commlinks are very likely to be slaved to the Host, but that creates its own series of security vulnerabilities). 

Somewhere in that chain there is likely a security vulnerability of an Icon of some kind that isn't Slaved to the Host but would have control over the RFID that opens the lock.  Spoof Command on the right Commlink would then be the way.  Or a good Face and just skip the Hacking altogether.  As a GM I'm good with either.

I'm also good with " If maglocks can be seen when the GM wants them to be seen, and they can't be seen when the GM doesn't want them to be seen, "  because sometimes "Hack the damn Host you lazy bastage"    : )

[BeCareful]

Addendum: wow, I got the wrong idea of what "automatic spotting" means. "Did that guy really put his concealed holster Wireless ON?" instead of "For my action, I make Matrix Perception with Computers 0 + LOG 1 and roll 0 dice, what's every icon around me look like?" makes the action economy look much smoother, and lets the GM toss out all the necessary info together.

Glad I learned that before I started to GM.

[hulka]

The devices are two parts. Logic, ie Icon and Maglock, hardware.
If Maglock is in the Host, then I don't see only its logical partition.
If I stand beside him, then I will see both the lock and the data flowing into it. Then, after decrypt the data (Crack File or Hash Check maybe) I can send Spoof Command.
This is a good part for electronic warfare. Which is not very detailed in the rules.