[Charybdis]

Also, don't worry. I'm aware that good characters don't mean bad roleplayers. I didn't mean to come across like that. I just think that starting off (keep in mind that i'm new to not only shadowrun, but pen and paper games altogether), I would be a bad roleplayer with a "competent" character. At least for the time being.

I think you're selling yourself short here.

Anyone in the world of shadowrunning needs to have some sort of skillset that is useful in the shadows, and well above the Joe Average norms. These skill sets can be anything from:
- Combat skills: Punching stuff, shooting stuff
- Social Skills: Talking your way out of trouble or other negotiations, lots of contacts in useful places
- Magic Skills: Any summoning or spellflinging
- Athletic skills: Parkour-style roof-running or climbing into difficult areas
- Hacking skills: Convincing the system you're authorised to be walking around, forging credentials
- Other computer stuff: Online research, program design, general electronics
- Repairs and tech: Keeping damaged stuff operational, jury-rigging
- Infiltration: Make-up and disguise or just sneaky stealthiness, Picking locks
- Vehicles and drones: Remote controlled drones for surveillance or combat, driving transport real good
- Management skills: Leadership and co-ordination ability, team trust
- etc etc etc

As a Shadowrunner-PC, you need to have something special that you're adding to the group, beyond just a good thinking cap.

Also, it's comforting to be a new guy in the group, but knowing you can do something other members can't. It cements your place, giving confidence to expand out to other areas when you feel comfortable, but knowing tyou can fall-back on your primary skillset and just be 'the man when it comes to <z> activity....

If not, you're just an average joe, maybe with a gun or a good idea, and that's not really a useful option for someone who is going to be dodging bullets for a living.

The Karma system for improving PC's in Shadowrun is a very slow process (often, frustratingly so). So don't get caught up in the idea that you'll easily improve your starting PC to be a fantastic runner once you've got the basics... the SR mechanics don't work like that.... they're deliberately harsh, and the world is very, very deadly.

Even a kind GM (sometimes this is even me ) can accidentally kill a PC with just a couple of lucky rolls. Myself, and other posters in this thread, really do recommend you take a few advantages to make your PC really competent at something. Anything.

Many years of experience tell me that this will definitely suit you and your playing style, and make your Shadowrun experience more enjoyable. Trust us, we've done this before 

[Murmur]

My runner is decent with SMG's and hacking, he's just not amazing at either. He's not completely skill-less or anything, and I feel he can hold his own in a similarly inexperienced group of runners. In fact he did. And I don't expect to quickly become great or anything. In fact my character is quite happy with mediocrity. It's just his style.

[Lycanyew]

My advice for creating characters is try to get everything at starting
Try to make the character you want because it's as good as it's going to get
As many people here have already stated Karma growth is a very slow
Same with Cyber upgrades (unless you get very well paying jobs)

Also Knowledge skills are your friends

[Charybdis]

My runner is decent with SMG's and hacking, he's just not amazing at either. He's not completely skill-less or anything, and I feel he can hold his own in a similarly inexperienced group of runners. In fact he did. And I don't expect to quickly become great or anything. In fact my character is quite happy with mediocrity. It's just his style.

Hmmm, I think you're settling for the fallacy that 'being mechanically excellent at something in-game makes one a bad roleplayer.' On the contrary, Roleplaying in shadowrun consists of two aspects:
- Role-playing activity (problem solving, investigation, PC interactions etc) AND
- Roll-playing activity (rolling the dice to put your PC's skill-sets to the test)

I love playing PC's with gaping holes in their character (can't shoot a gun to save themselves (No skill + incompetence), trip up walking down a sidewalk (Agi/Rea @2), Socially inept (Cha 2, Uncouth etc). But all of them have a reason to be recruited into the shadows, ie something they;re really good at that adds value to the team.

Now, before I go on any tangent rant here...what's your definition of 'Decent'?
- Dice pool of 6? 8? 10? 12?
If Hacking and SMG's are the main skills you're bringing to the crew, please tell me you've got Dice pools in the 12+ range.

Anything less and you're on Par with an Average Rent-a-cop, which is NOT suitable for a Shadowrunner.

[Murmur]

My dicepool for hacking is 13 and my SMGs is 9. I've stated before that I fully understand that well built characters don't mean bad roleplayers. I'm sorry that my character sucks. Maybe my next one will follow everyone else's standards on what makes a good character. This is the first character I've ever made for shadowrun, or any pen and paper game at all actually. For me the best way to learn is to learn from mistakes. So apparently I will have a lot to learn from this character. Doesn't mean I still can't have a lot of fun.

[Charybdis]

My dicepool for hacking is 13 and my SMGs is 9. I've stated before that I fully understand that well built characters don't mean bad roleplayers. I'm sorry that my character sucks. Maybe my next one will follow everyone else's standards on what makes a good character. This is the first character I've ever made for shadowrun, or any pen and paper game at all actually. For me the best way to learn is to learn from mistakes. So apparently I will have a lot to learn from this character. Doesn't mean I still can't have a lot of fun.

Heya

Sorry if I sounded harsh. It just appeared like you were deliberately making mistakes, regardless of advice given, even though you were posting a request for advice. That's the bit that stung me a little...

A) Hacking pool of 13 is more than fine
B) SMG at 9 means you can handle a gun but it's a contingency plan only, which suits a clever shadowrunner PERFECTLY
C) Playing a deliberately lower-power PC in order to learn more? *shrugs* also sounds fine to me.
D) We've discussed two skills,which is a fraction of the PC in question: so I'm sure that the PC will have enough quirks, temperaments and good ideas to have fun.

Learn, and learn well. Best of luck to you

Side note: Consistent usage of double-negatives is normally an indication of a pessimistic view. That also rubbed me the wrong way, especially when combined with apparent disregard to any and all advice...

[Murmur]

Sorry if I came over a bit harsh myself. I am appreciative of the advice given, and I'm not disregarding it, on the contrary I have followed it. I've given my character a viable main skill and a backup skill, other skills that may come in handy, a lengthy backstory, and fitting qualities for him. My main goal in all this was to create a character I can relate to, without thinking too much about making him the best mechanically 400 BP character possible. I don't want to have a useless character, not at all. I just want a character that has to rely on roleplaying more than rollplaying.

[Charybdis]

All good.

Have fun

[JohnQ]

Murmur, congratulations on your foray into the world of Shadowrun roleplaying. I believe a fantastic roleplaying session may not require much dice rolling at all. It's my opinion, that the message folks are trying to convey here is thus:  The best roleplaying does not automatically convert into excellent roll-playing. In this game, a decent dice pool is requisite and expected by game design. For example if the role of "Face" does not have a decent Charisma and Negotiation skill, they can talk the talk (roleplay) but not walk the walk (roll-play). They shouldn't expect to win many of the opposed checks when trying to get better prices, or increasing the pay on a run, make a great deal with the Fixer on equipment. The roleplay part only gets you so far. Same goes with weapons, if your dice pool doesn't get you enough successes to get past the Reaction and subsequent damage soaking rolls its going to be trouble. I learned quickly that my very fashionable Lined Coat was quite insufficient alone as armor. This forum proved to be a fantastic source of information, assisting me in learning about Form Fitting Body Armor, PPP, and more. Now if my Magician would only stop walking out in front of a hail of bullets he might not find himself in overflow more often than not. 

This is not to say that some excellent roleplaying shouldn't give you a bonus d6 or the like, in fact I think that excellent roleplay should be rewarded. Its mentioned in the Karma reward section, but that's after the adventure.

Check with your GM and gaming buddies. It could be that, like my GM, you'll be allowed some tweaking in the early game. For example I realized that my Magicians decision to take Body:2 was in fact not a great idea. I found ways to free up 20 BP and got that to Body:4 instead. This allowed me to make use of the armor types I mentioned above. From the GM purview its good to have a decent set of runners, who can not only role-play, but also roll-play to be successful in the face of opposition be it combat, hacking, infiltration, etc. This game can be deadly, as in one hit from a narrow burst SMG (and the baddy still has another Simple Action to do another!).

First and foremost, enjoy your game!

[Tagz]

When I make a runner character I usually start of with a concept, then refine that concept with how he's perceived by others.

The most common one I use is "How would a fixer describe this character to a Johnson to convince the J that this runner (and for setting it up, the fixer too) is worth the J's money and to hire the runner."

I see your character right now as something like this:
"Well, I know this guy.  Can hack, won't shoot his own foot off.  Not the best I' ever seen but the Chummer'll run for soy-kaf and beans."

I like it, but there should really be more of a sell, otherwise it will just seem silly to have this guy work anything but the lowest of street level runs.

A good "hook" could easily be role-play driven too, requiring no BPs and further defining your character.

"Well, I know this guy.  Can hack, won't shoot his own foot off.  Knows to keep his mouth shut after a run and a thing or two about Japanese culture.  Might be handy since you say you plan to hit Renraku.  Oh, and he runs on the cheap, more concerned about tryin' to make a rep for himself as a runner."

Sounds better to me.  I wouldn't hire the first description except as a distraction or a meat shield.  The second sounds like a better investment.