[CitizenJoe]

Dragons don't come from humans.  Some take human form via magic.  There are Drakes which are metahuman-dragon hybrids.  And then there are the immortal elves which may or may not have some sort of relationship with dragons.  But mucking with human genetics wouldn't have any effect on dragons.

[Mirikon]

You're thinking in mortal terms, BRKN. Dragons and elves tend to take the long view of things. They believe that, aside from a few early breakthroughs, the Horrors are at least a few centuries away. That is plenty of time to build a power base to fight them, without letting anyone know that's what you're doing. And the dragons are NOT a united front, just as the immortal elves aren't. They have different ideas about how to do things, and their own rivalries, as one might expect of any group that has known eachother for a few thousand years.

[BRKNdevil]

nah i didn't mean dragons and humans were related but i read on some wiki over the history of earthdawn is that humans created the dragons using magic to help combat the horrors, though i don't know about if they still actually have the time they think they have cuz i read in another wiki that big d sacked himself in order to level out the mana spikes that caused the early cross overs with the insect spirits and the shedim and the shadow spirits. course the dragons the humans actually created are all dead with a sort of civil war with the newer generations over how humanity should be dealt with.

and if your wondering what are my sources, unfortunately i don't remember them and even though the burden of proof falls on me i seriously have no idea where to find them, i found them while looking for the earthdawn names of the different dragons.

also i found it hilarious when i found out the immortal elves city exploded when the magic went away

[CitizenJoe]

No, Dragons came first then humans.  What humans invented was Naming.  That's where our strength lies.   Back in the Second World (the Age of Dragons) thing wielded immense power, using raw mana to bend reality to their will.  However, in each case, the creature could only bend reality to the extent of their OWN will, not beyond it.  When people invented Naming, every person could focus on one thing because it was uniquely named.  While people had minimal effect when taken alone, the combined effects of thousands enabled them to surpass even the dragons.  In the Fourth World (Earthdawn, Age of Heroes ?), Naming (Pattern Magic) grew into its full strength, imbuing things and places with power.  Far worse than anything else we've done, when people abandoned their name for a number (SIN) we gave up the one thing we held over the Horrors.

[grimjaws]

We've been playing with it in the Missions adventures some.  It's one of the underlying problems between Seattle and the Ork underground, after all.  Plus, racist scumbags make such good bad guys.

And did it work well with SRM 04-01, my group was really conflicted over the end of the mission.

[bigdamndm1986]

in 'spells and chrome' there is a short story that deals with goblinization process. it really is pretty good.