[Kaleotter]

So, having gotten the core book well over a year ago, I've finally found a group willing to play, So I got the runners toolkit and decided to run them through the example adventure. It didnt go well, partly due to my inexperience (I decided that horizon would probably have more competent backup waiting in case anything went wrong at the warehouse and chose the wrong moment for the backup to arrive) and partly due to the partys lack of expertise in a system that is less "kick down the door, kill the guys and take thier stuff" and more "get as much info as you can and actually try and plan the situation out as best you can". I was wondering if anyone could give me some advice and ideas for a way of getting the party into the habit of doing legwork and preperation for a run, rather than rushing in without thinking. I was thinking maybe involving them with a group of gangers for a bit, with missions that heavily rely on the pcs more firectly forceful attitude slowly getting more complex and requiring more thought, with the less thuggish missions offering bigger rewards, until they're ready to deal with a real jhonson with a real job to cap the arc off.

[JustADude]

That could very well work, yes.

I'd also suggest perhaps running them through some "observation only" missions, where they're gathering intel for someone else. Then there's the "hostage extraction" type missions, where the target dies if they make too much noise too soon. Or, of course, you could simply have a few runs where Mr. Johnson specifies a big penalty/bonus based on them being stealthy... specifically because he's heard they're trigger-happy.

Losing their pay because they started a firefight will stop that attitude real quick.

[Lysanderz]

The best thing I ever did with my playgroup was forcibly arrest a trio of characters who were just out of control. They travelled to Pittsburgh to geek some corporate suit (Their own idea of how to force him into retirement so an underling could move up into his position) and caught him at the airport. They literally just walked up to his waiting limo, popped a half dozen rounds into his front tires (To be fair, they used silencers) and slammed a frag grenade inside the bag and watched the chaos as shrapnel ripped him limb by limb.

In front of a quartet of airport security guards, security drones, and live feed cameras to the pickup lanes. and then going home to their own homes.

Well LoneStar SWAT was really unfriendly and suddenly three characters that were basically "Shoot first, ask questions later" were stuck in jail. (Which incidentally had a couple runs in itself. Nothing like Shadowrun in jail, makes for some short term fun) The players learned their lesson, realized that just because it's a game with violence and a world built on it doesn't mean you get away scott-free if you are stupid about how you go about your violence.

Moral of the Story: Frag Grenades in tight places with unarmored targets make the word "Chunky Salsa" a description, not a title for a set of rules.

[Walks Through Walls]

Justadude is right in hitting the runners in the pocketbook will quickly teach them that it is in their best interests to be quiet.
Lysanderz is also right about teaching with an example of harsh consequences make the players take notice.

What you might also do is let them know some movie type examples of what they should expect or look to do.
For example:
Oceans 11
Hackers
Tower Heist
come to mind off hand, but there are many more good maybe even better examples out there

Also maybe just sit down with the players and make sure what you are looking to run and what they want to play mesh. This might be the most important thing to do as if you have different ideals of what the perfect game is then you need to find a middle point where everyone is happy.

They might really want to play a shoot them up style of a game. Let them know if that is the case then there will be serious opposition and character capture and/or death are a real possibility.

Hope all of this helps. Welcome to the world of Shadowrun and good luck.

[Reaver]

I would suggest talking to the players and finding out what type of game they are looking for, the tayoring the missions/runs to suit them.

If they are looking for a 'high body count' type of game.... Mercenary work. There are plenty of little hell-holes with something a corp wants all over the world. The players could be hired to 'convince' (wink,wink) a tribe to sign over mineral rights to a corp, or clean up a lab that is too deep in a hot zone, provide ecsort duty to a convoy through contested borders.... Lots of work out there for the trigger happy.

If they are looking for a 'James bond' style game, the problem might be they don't know what they should be doing, or how to go about getting the intel they need. In these cases you could try a couple of ideas. Meta-gaming is one... Let the players discuss with you what the characters SHOULD do to get the intel... Or introduce a 'consultant' NPC that guides them towards the intel gathering stages for a run.

In the end, it's all about everyone having fun, as the GM it's your job to see to that. Don't be constrained by what you think is a perfect 'shadowrun'... Enjoy the game and your players.

[Kaleotter]

Having read peoples input here and talked to a friend who has had a chance to read into the rules and setting a bit more deeply than I; I've kind of settled on the idea of this first arc consisting of a few runs where the party are acting as a sort of neighbourhood watch, helping a small citizens militia type organization in the barrens make thier homes and buisnesses safer from gang incursions.
 The idea is that the stakes are raised a little with each run, with each requiring more planning, thought and legwork. from seeing off the local protection racket to targeting a drugs lab, to finding out where specific leiutenants live and scaring them off etc, with the last run in the arc bieng a big attack on the mid level mafiaman whos been sponsoring the gangs to move in on this territory. I need to refine the idea some, but its nearly 4 in the morning and I should sleep. Maybe.

[JoeNapalm]

Don't forget the Notoriety rules.

If the runners are doing stuff in an unrunnerlike fashion, that tends to get them high Notoriety pretty quickly. As one of my own characters was built with intentionally high Notoriety (long story), I can tell you, when used properly by your GM, it can cause trouble.

Your characters will rapidly take a dislike to people recognizing them, getting asked "Hey buddy - shoot any nuns, lately?", big thumpin' dice penalties to all of their Social checks (well, except Intimidate), their Contacts not returning their calls or flat out refusing to associate with them until they clean up their act...

Another way to influence your players is throw an NPC in the party. Tread lightly, here - as a new GM with a new group, it is easy to fall into a situation where the PCs are looking to the NPC to make all of their decisions. Also, a GM should NEVER think of an NPC as "the GM's Player Character".

That said, however, having an NPC in the group to be the voice of reason can be a big help in toning down their megaviolent tendencies. Maybe the NPC isn't much of a fighter (you never want a persistent, in-party NPC outshining the PCs) but is really smart. Maybe nobody is playing a Mage or a Hacker (in a new game, players often don't want to mess with these additional complexities) so your NPC is providing those services (I recommend against a Combat Mage, see above). Maybe the NPC isn't even in the party, but is just a really good Fixer Contact who sets up all their runs. Whatever the case, said NPC could be on-hand (or at least on comms) to nudge them in a more covert, less lets-kick-the-hornet's-nest course of action.

And, of course if all else fails, just kill a few of them. Shouldn't be hard...just allow events to follow to their reasonable conclusion, and don't intervene. (NOTE: This is a very risky option, of course - new players, who are not very invested in the game, might just quit...if you're going to off a PC, generally you have to insure that it's good storytelling, even if they deserve it.)

Shadowrunners can't defeat The State. The State can't defeat a Megacorp. What do you think would REALLY happen if the players noisily and messily offended Horizon? Or Aries? Or the Yakuza? Or a Dragon?

They're ants giving the finger to the magnifying glass. Cook a few, and the rest should start tip-toeing.

-Jn-
Ifriti Sophist

[Reaver]

Having read peoples input here and talked to a friend who has had a chance to read into the rules and setting a bit more deeply than I; I've kind of settled on the idea of this first arc consisting of a few runs where the party are acting as a sort of neighbourhood watch, helping a small citizens militia type organization in the barrens make thier homes and buisnesses safer from gang incursions.
 The idea is that the stakes are raised a little with each run, with each requiring more planning, thought and legwork. from seeing off the local protection racket to targeting a drugs lab, to finding out where specific leiutenants live and scaring them off etc, with the last run in the arc bieng a big attack on the mid level mafiaman whos been sponsoring the gangs to move in on this territory. I need to refine the idea some, but its nearly 4 in the morning and I should sleep. Maybe.

Not a bad Idea. It breaks them into the game rules and slowly adds the complexity needed for 'real' shadowruns. My only suggestion would be to not include a made man as the mafia guy. By RAW, the mafia will go to extreme lengths to avenge a made man getting snuffed. Thus closing the mafia from being a source of intel or runs. But of course, it's your game! Do as you wish and have fun doing it!

[Fallen_Raven]

Another way to keep players from going crazy is to remind them that their eneimes have far more resources than them. If a group of runners has a ton of money, a secure base of operations, and a large number of hired goons, they've gone from runners the  large gang/ orgainized crime group all the other runners are being hired to take down.

In light of being outclassed by every significant group on the planet (any group off planet is so far out of their league it stops being funny), a group of runners needs to do the job with as few people taking it personally as possible.

[Dirtywork]

On Sunday I'm running my first game in over 10 years. I've got 6 people in my group all of whom are regulars to World of Darkness and Exalted. So Shadowrun is going to be a hell of a downshift. So I'm also a little nervous about my runners not seeing the subtlety and the style of SR.

As a test Run I'm doing Food Fight 4.0. Once we get done with that we can talk about the pros and cons of the mission. Obviously there won't be much legwork for that one...just a shootout at the Stuffer Shack. But it is my hope that at least one of the runners ask "why" there was a shootout in the Stuffer Shack. If all goes well I was going to run the Season 2 missions.

I GMd SR1 for 7 years. But for some reason I'm really nervous my crew is going to want to just play a run and gun game and not even bother with the social and cloak&dagger stuff.

[Mirikon]

Do what I did with a group of D&D players I <s>browbeat</s> <s>coerced</s> persuaded to play Shadowrun. Tell them, in no uncertain terms, that going in both barrels blazing, looking to kill all the enemies you see is a great way to get very, very dead in a hurry. And then provide examples of how it can go bad. Provide them with the history section of the core book and Anatomy of a Shadowrun from the Runner's Toolkit as handouts or PDFs. Encourage them to read the fiction in the sourcebooks. And then point them in the direction of other sources for them to absorb at their leisure.

Also, I provided pregens for Food Fight and the run that sprang out of it, to make sure they had the roles covered that needed covering, and to make sure everyone would have a chance to shine. After the first run, I let them transfer karma and nuyen rewards to new characters if they wanted.

[Lysanderz]

I GMd SR1 for 7 years. But for some reason I'm really nervous my crew is going to want to just play a run and gun game and not even bother with the social and cloak&dagger stuff.

My big hang ups with Shadowrun groups are people who just shoot things (Yes, a ganger is a thug but look at the gangers who rise up to lead gangs. Those guys aren't just thugs, they are street predators.) and runs that just go silly ("I'll walk into the stripjoint and cast orgasm on the first poledancer I see", funny the first time it happens. Not so much the 21st time).

So if they bail, let me know! lol, I'm always up for a good cloak and dagger story. Especially street level legwork.

[Dirtywork]

I GMd SR1 for 7 years. But for some reason I'm really nervous my crew is going to want to just play a run and gun game and not even bother with the social and cloak&dagger stuff.

My big hang ups with Shadowrun groups are people who just shoot things (Yes, a ganger is a thug but look at the gangers who rise up to lead gangs. Those guys aren't just thugs, they are street predators.) and runs that just go silly ("I'll walk into the stripjoint and cast orgasm on the first poledancer I see", funny the first time it happens. Not so much the 21st time).

So if they bail, let me know! lol, I'm always up for a good cloak and dagger story. Especially street level legwork.

Come on over Lysanderz! I've always got room at the table for people who want to have a good time

I was reading in another tip thread (I think) that a good deterrent is to hit the runners in their bank account and/or send them to jail if they get a little too trigger happy at the wrong times. Nobody want's to be in a cell with a troll named Bubba...well maybe some do 

Good ideas from Mirikon. I'm running Food Fight tomorrow as a test run and I was going to let everyone keep their karma. We're also going to spend about an hour going over history, handouts, and all of the goodies that come in the toolkit....especially those coated cheat sheets. I'm loving those things!