[haiiro_okami]

While looking through the Arsenal guidebook, I noticed a slight resemblance of the Ares MP LMG to the M56 Smart Gun from the movie Aliens and figured, with some modding that I could easily recreate most of the form, and some of the function of that particular weapon. Adding an internal (or external) smartgun system, gyro stabilization, electronic firing (and probably custom look) mods to the weapon will effectively recreate the appearance and some of the function of the movie weapon, though I believe adding the additional clip mod would be useful in terms of recreating the weapon functions (allow the user to switch between EX-ex ammo, and regular explosive ammo). Pair all this up with a monocle with image link, smartlink, and thermographic vision and you pretty much have the smart gun from Aliens, but what I'm really wondering here is the practicality of it, how good would such a weapon be? Granted, outside of Chicago or Lagos, heavy weaponry would not necessarily be all that useful, and would be far more likely to get you caught for some rather illegal gear.

[Csjarrat]

it'd be pretty badass, but  the johnson would throw you out of the meet if you turned up with that on your hip. if your GM plays high powered combat heavy stuff then great, if he plays it all grim-dark and stealthy then maybe not.

[haiiro_okami]

it'd be pretty badass, but  the johnson would throw you out of the meet if you turned up with that on your hip. if your GM plays high powered combat heavy stuff then great, if he plays it all grim-dark and stealthy then maybe not.

Agreed, you'd be a fool to bring anything really heavy to a meet, and such a thing would only be good for a pink mohawk campaign, but it's not like an LMG is gonna be a regular use weapon, this is partially just to simply have/maybe use the smartgun in a setting that doesn't cost me actual money

[Csjarrat]

by all means mate, get stuck in, the rule of cool certainly applies here!
i can see it being good if you got contracted to clear out a toxic mage's lair or some other kind of "weapons free" scenario where you need the big guns.
straight up infil/extraction/data steal/snooping missions will find a weap like that being more of a liability unless the shit hits the fan. but if the shit does hit the fan, you'll be very glad you brought it along :-)

[Prodigy]

Playing a merc, that weapon is a viable choice.

[haiiro_okami]

This question should probably go in the rules section, but if I were to give a smart weapon a pilot upgrade turning it effectively into a drone, could I then add minor drone modifications to it? (E.g. in the case of an LMG, adding ammo bins)

[The Wyrm Ouroboros]

An autopilot does not a drone make.  You need more than just the weapon as a base; you need a chassis.  The extended Aliens cuts, with their autoturret guns, are 'drone guns', and they exist within the Shadowrun world.  But you can't add an autopilot, declare the weapon a drone, then add ammo bins - unless, of course, your GM thinks that that's just a really great idea, and lets you get away with it.  If that came up around me, I'd smack you first, then tell you to go get a chassis.

[PeterSmith]

While looking through the Arsenal guidebook, I noticed a slight resemblance of the Ares MP LMG to the M56 Smart Gun from the movie Aliens...

Indeed it does. Nice eye.

Adding an internal (or external) smartgun system, gyro stabilization, electronic firing (and probably custom look) mods to the weapon will effectively recreate the appearance and some of the function of the movie weapon...

I would go with an internal smartgun myself, with an IR camera for the system. The user would tie in with an attached eyepiece, hardwired to the gun. The gyro and the electronic mods are also required.

...though I believe adding the additional clip mod would be useful in terms of recreating the weapon functions (allow the user to switch between EX-ex ammo, and regular explosive ammo).

The weapon only had the single belt of ammo, it was not able to load two at the same time. The Additional Clip mod would not be appropriate, if you're looking for a movie-accurate or universe-accurate replication.

If all you're looking for is a movie-accurate weapon, you can finish here. However, if you want to go for a universe-accurate system you really need to convert this to a drone. The Colonial Marine Tech Manual book, released after Aliens came out, talks about how the gun has a smart firing system. The system tracks and leads the gun, which it and of itself does not indicate a drone system. However it went on to talk about how each gun had its own personality, represented by some always lagging slightly while others would always place a single round through the exact center of mass. Yet another example (IIRC) talked about how a weapon was used to clear out a building. A single shot was found in each of the bodies in the building, right through the forehead.

You need more than just the weapon as a base; you need a chassis.

The harness used to mount the gun to the Marine would be the chassis, the Marine would be the motive system.

[Wildcard]

If all you're looking for is a movie-accurate weapon, you can finish here. However, if you want to go for a universe-accurate system you really need to convert this to a drone. The Colonial Marine Tech Manual book, released after Aliens came out, talks about how the gun has a smart firing system. The system tracks and leads the gun, which it and of itself does not indicate a drone system. However it went on to talk about how each gun had its own personality, represented by some always lagging slightly while others would always place a single round through the exact center of mass. Yet another example (IIRC) talked about how a weapon was used to clear out a building. A single shot was found in each of the bodies in the building, right through the forehead.

I'd argue that an ammo-skip system would be the closest thing SR could replicate by canon to the two-stage explosive ammo process.

A switch on the hand grip is used to select the ammunition fusing, which is set electronically as the round is loaded into the chamber. The 'Super' setting is optimised against soft targets and will detonate the round on impact, while the 'Delay' setting explodes the shell only after penetrating the target armor.

Sounds awesome, and within the realm of logical for SR, but you'd need a reasonable GM.

You're also going to need electronic firing as well, and an argument could be made that the plastics and carbon-fiber composition could give it some simple protection from MAD scanners, but it'd be a -1 at best.

[haiiro_okami]

Well, the additional clip is merely to add more of the function to the weapon, as the Smart Gun is described as having a selective ammunition system in which the computer sets the fuse of the ammo for either soft targets (explodes on impact) or armor piercing (explodes shortly after punching a hole in), the additional clip (belt) in this case would just be to add the function to the weapon in addition to the form (at least more practically than the throwing away of ammo with the skip system in this case) As well as to get the rest of the function would have to get the pilot upgrade and load it with *at least* clearsight (and probably some targeting) autosofts, but the practicality and expense of doing so would be at the very least a headache, as to whether or not it would add bonuses to using said weapon that would be a GM's discretion sort of thing I would imagine. So for now, I'm gonna go with Ares MP LMG with electronic firing, external smartgun system (cheaper, adds more tech sort of attachments to the weapon, and it can still be equipped with vision enhancements), gyro stabilization, and probably custom look 1 at the very least (though just painting "Adios" on the side should be all I need), the pilot upgrade and additional clip mod is still questionable for the moment at least until I talk to the GM, but a few questions still remain....How much does hardwiring cost? Would the smartgun cam need image link as well as thermographic vision to display the images in a monocle, as I believe it would be a waste to put the vision enhancements in the gun itself would be kind of a waste (unless you're firing around a corner)? Throw in a monocle with image link, smartlink, and thermographic and this badboy is good to go.

[Aryeonos]

I generally rule that the camera upgrades don't take up slots, and they should not need smartlink or imagelink because they're already part of the smart link system. Same thing with image scopes, though you could put image link in the image scope/sight to get zoom bonuses if you didn't buy the camera upgrade for firing around corners.

If you're using the suppression and trauma rules from War! than firing around corners is always a good idea, they have "Corner Guns" even now for the same situation.

And oooh how I wish explosive ammo or Ex Ex was actually SAPHE Ammo.

[CanRay]

I think there's only one thing for me to say on this thread...

[haiiro_okami]

Would a pilot upgrade with clearsight autosofts and possibly the camera upgrade with thermographic imaging provide the same feature as target tracking or at least identification? Because that's the closest thing I can see to getting the main part of the Smart Gun function.... heck if it'd at least provide a bonus that'd be good too, because right now I can't quite see the value of the pilot upgrade for the smartgun.

[Novocrane]

To use active targeting, the character/vehicle must first make a successful Sensor + Perception Test (Sensor + Clearsight autosoft in the case of drones) to lock onto a target. This requires a Simple Action (see Use Sensors, p. 169). Note that activated sensors, ECM, and ECCM systems come online at the start of the next Combat Turn.

If the character/vehicle wins the test, the net hits are added as a dice pool modifier to the subsequent Gunnery Test. If no hits are achieved, the sensors fail to lock onto the target and an active targeting attack cannot be made.

I'd use this, or some variation on it. Note that I've taken info from p169-171 of SR4A and copy / pasted the relevant parts where it becomes vague.

[Aryeonos]

For whatever reason it surprises me that it takes a simple action instead of a free action to use the active targeting, but that's really just for tests involving plain shooting a mounted gun, in dog fighting situations I can see it taking a whole combat round to attain a lock and line up the target for the gunnery test to be made.

I am enjoying the whole drone smartgun idea though, I should look into that.

I think there's only one thing for me to say on this thread...

I liked how the movie was scary without being violent, I hate the setting though... the Zerg did the whole alien thing much better though.