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Ghost - invisible adept / B&E

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Mach_Ten

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« Reply #15 on: <02-23-13/0520:14> »
okaaay then,

messed around some more,   is this any better ?   :-\

== Info ==
Street Name: Silas
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 6
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 0
Public Awareness: 0
Elf
Composure: 6
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 7 (30 kg/20 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4 (5)
AGI: 7 (10)
REA: 4 (5)
STR: 1 (2)
CHA: 4
INT: 3
LOG: 4
WIL: 2
EDG: 2
MAG: 4

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   4.3
Initiative:                7 (8)
IP:                        1 (2)
Astral Initiative:         6
Astral IP:                 3
Matrix Initiative:         3
Matrix IP:                 1
Physical Damage Track:     11
Stun Damage Track:         9

== Active Skills ==
Animal Training            : 0                      Pool: 2
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 9
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Artisan                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 9
Blades                     : 1 [Parrying]           Pool: 11 (13)
Climbing                   : 2                      Pool: 4
Clubs                      : 0                      Pool: 9
Computer                   : 0                      Pool: 3
Con                        : 2                      Pool: 10
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 3
Data Search                : 0                      Pool: 3
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 3
Disguise                   : 3                      Pool: 9
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 4
Dodge                      : 0                      Pool: 4
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 9
Etiquette                  : 2                      Pool: 10
First Aid                  : 0                      Pool: 3
Flight                     : 2                      Pool: 4
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 9
Gunnery                    : 0                      Pool: 9
Gymnastics                 : 2                      Pool: 12
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 3
Hardware                   : 2                      Pool: 7
Heavy Weapons              : 0                      Pool: 9
Infiltration               : 3                      Pool: 14
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 3
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 3
Leadership                 : 2                      Pool: 10
Locksmith                  : 0                      Pool: 9
Longarms                   : 0                      Pool: 9
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Negotiation                : 2                      Pool: 10
Palming                    : 3                      Pool: 14
Parachuting                : 0                      Pool: 4
Perception                 : 1                      Pool: 4
Pilot Ground Craft         : 1                      Pool: 6
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 4
Pistols                    : 0                      Pool: 9
Riding                     : 0                      Pool: 4
Running                    : 2                      Pool: 4
Shadowing                  : 3                      Pool: 7
Survival                   : 0                      Pool: 1
Swimming                   : 2                      Pool: 4
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 9
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Unarmed Combat             : 0                      Pool: 9

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Qualities ==
Adept
First Impression
Incompetent (Animal Handling)
Low-Light Vision
Poor Self Control (Compulsive - High Danger) (Art Thief)
Restricted Gear (Rating 1)
Signature
SINner (Standard) ( Renraku)

== Powers ==
Counterstrike Rating: 1
Facial Sculpt Rating: 2
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Hardware) Rating: 2
Improved Reflexes 1
Kinesics Rating: 2

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Muscle Toner Rating 2
Reflex Recorder (Skill Group) (Stealth)
Suprathyroid Gland
Tailored Pheromones Rating 2

== Weapons ==
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 9   DV: 1S   AP: -   RC: 0
« Last Edit: <02-23-13/0923:08> by Mach_Ten »

emsquared

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« Reply #16 on: <02-23-13/1409:50> »
is this any better ?   :-\
Don't be discouraged, the advice I put out is for heightened levels of optimization. If that isn't what you necessarily need/want, then just do what's right for you.

That being said, you asked to be a Infiltrator/B&E guy who can take people out quietly. So, when you ask if this build is better I have to assume you're asking mechanically regarding those roles: taking people out, stealth and B&E. Stealth and B&E is not really a skill-set that requires or deserves singular dedication - you can be a primary combatant level shooter/melee too - i.e. take people out quietly.

In that light, no, you really aren't any better off here. While elf is perfect for the shooter/infiltrator/B&E/with a smide-of-Face, was there a specific reason you went from Ork to Elf? It very much makes my previous advice which was made in the context of an Ork build (which you seemed to have ignored anyway) meaningless.

Major questions/issues to address now: you dropped your STR down to nothing, but picked up a STR based weapon (Blades)? Counterproductive. You also dropped any form of Firearm and your REA and INT, this all combined - even though you managed an 11 Pool in Blades - has pretty much made you into a complete non-combatant. You now really cannot contribute in any meaningful way to combat. For most tables, this is bad. You can defend yourself, but that's really it.

A general rule, don't hard-max any stat, unless you're a Technomancer or a super-BOD Troll build. The reason, for instance with this elf build, you're paying 50 Karma at chargen what would cost you 35 post-chargen - this is a horrible inefficiency.

Your Animal Handling Incompetency is kind of cheese, your GM may or may not allow it. And don't get me wrong, I've used that exact Incompetency but it was paired with Animal Training, a Mild Allergy to animals with hair, and Spirit Bane (Beast) as well... so I guess what I'm saying is, use your Neg Quals to build character, not to try and grab free BP.

Your Powers and Ware look like they'll line up nicely once we get the rest of this sorted out...

Mach_Ten

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« Reply #17 on: <02-23-13/1448:17> »
Yeah i get ya  ;D.

Didnt spot that blades were strength dependent

Took elf for the agility and charisma  over ork for the str and bod

The animal handling was basically, if someone has a guard dog i shit my pants and panic,  i might take some other neg qualities to play that up more thanks

Also,  i dropped the adept way,  the bp cost was too high for thediscount to powers i wasnt taking.

Unseen hands is nice but,  i dunno,  spend the bp on skill group ?.

What do you reckon on the powers if istay elf ?
« Last Edit: <02-23-13/1451:40> by Mach_Ten »

emsquared

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« Reply #18 on: <02-23-13/1529:29> »
What do you reckon on the powers if istay elf ?
Well, first, I just noticed you hard-maxed your MAG. Unfortunately, IMO, the No-Hard-Max rule applies to MAG for Adepts (and Magicians, and anyone) too, especially since you're taking ESS loss and immediately losing that MAG.

So, if you drop your base MAG to 5, you can keep the Powers you've already chosen (which I think they're all good choices, given your goals) IF you take an Adept's Geasa over all of them. Otherwise you'll have to lose 1 Power Point worth of Powers - probably Counterstrike and Facial Sculpt for now.

Mach_Ten

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« Reply #19 on: <02-23-13/1650:32> »
Sorry, confused.  I only bought MAG at 4.

Where am i looking in the books about losing powers ?

emsquared

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« Reply #20 on: <02-23-13/1704:02> »
Sorry, confused.  I only bought MAG at 4.

Where am i looking in the books about losing powers ?
Then I don't think you've been taking into account the MAG (aka Power Points) you lose when you lose ESS.

Mach_Ten

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« Reply #21 on: <02-23-13/1725:14> »
Is that not the point of only buying magic up to the essence you have. .?

UmaroVI

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« Reply #22 on: <02-23-13/1842:44> »
You buy the magic and then you lose essence and magic.

emsquared

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« Reply #23 on: <02-23-13/1851:45> »
Is that not the point of only buying magic up to the essence you have. .?
If you're "buying MAG up to your ESS" you are buying 6 MAG.

Mach_Ten

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« Reply #24 on: <02-23-13/1912:35> »
Is that not the point of only buying magic up to the essence you have. .?
If you're "buying MAG up to your ESS" you are buying 6 MAG.

Awww  crap I get it now,   so you need to buy the Magic points and then waste them with ESS loss due to ware ?

man that sucks,  .. guess time to go back to the board and not waste 30BP + on the ware and stay plain adept..


emsquared

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« Reply #25 on: <02-23-13/1955:38> »
Actually it's not a bad idea to take a point of ESS/MAG loss as an Adept unless it's contrary to your story. You can cram a lot of dice into 1 (or 2) points of ESS, plus it decreases your Initiation costs. But you just don't want to start with that 6 MAG.

Mach_Ten

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« Reply #26 on: <02-23-13/2030:03> »
okay then,  here we go.  (are you saying Don't buy all 6 points of magic at creation  (before essence loss ?)

Back to Orc,  I like the way it works out with a Blade (again back to the silent killing )

took 6 magic and dropped 1 ESS

took the Improved reflexes at level 2 .. might driop that and use the points elsewhere... what do you think ?

( after posting this below, I played at somethin else :   dropped a skill group and bought Warriors Way,  just to try out the discounts and added in quick draw as an additional power,   
Then have bought a Vibro sword,  free action to draw and ready .. thus negatinng the (Audible Hum & lack of stealth)   ...it's fluff,  but I like the way it **Might** work)


== Info ==
Street Name: Silas
Name: Unnamed Character
Movement: 10/25, Swim: 5
Karma: 0
Street Cred: 0
Notoriety: 2
Public Awareness: 0
Ork
Composure: 7
Judge Intentions: 9
Lift/Carry: 12 (105 kg/70 kg)
Memory: 6
Nuyen: 0

== Attributes ==
BOD: 4 (5)
AGI: 5 (6)
REA: 5 (7)
STR: 6 (7)
CHA: 4
INT: 3
LOG: 3
WIL: 3
EDG: 2
MAG: 5

== Derived Attributes ==
Essence:                   5.0
Initiative:                8 (10)
IP:                        1 (3)
Astral Initiative:         6
Astral IP:                 3
Matrix Initiative:         6
Matrix IP:                 1
Physical Damage Track:     11
Stun Damage Track:         10

== Active Skills ==
Archery                    : 0                      Pool: 5
Armorer                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Artisan                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Automatics                 : 0                      Pool: 5
Blades                     : 4                      Pool: 11
Climbing                   : 2                      Pool: 10
Clubs                      : 0                      Pool: 5
Computer                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Con                        : 2                      Pool: 8
Cybercombat                : 0                      Pool: 2
Data Search                : 0                      Pool: 2
Demolitions                : 0                      Pool: 2
Disguise                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Diving                     : 0                      Pool: 4
Dodge                      : 0                      Pool: 6
Escape Artist              : 0                      Pool: 5
Etiquette                  : 2                      Pool: 8
First Aid                  : 0                      Pool: 2
Flight                     : 2                      Pool: 10
Forgery                    : 0                      Pool: 5
Gunnery                    : 0                      Pool: 5
Gymnastics                 : 2                      Pool: 9
Hacking                    : 0                      Pool: 2
Hardware                   : 4                      Pool: 9
Heavy Weapons              : 0                      Pool: 5
Infiltration               : 4                      Pool: 11
Instruction                : 0                      Pool: 3
Intimidation               : 0                      Pool: 3
Leadership                 : 2                      Pool: 8
Locksmith                  : 0                      Pool: 5
Longarms                   : 0                      Pool: 5
Navigation                 : 0                      Pool: 2
Negotiation                : 2                      Pool: 8
Palming                    : 0                      Pool: 5
Parachuting                : 0                      Pool: 4
Perception                 : 1                      Pool: 4
Pilot Ground Craft         : 1                      Pool: 8
Pilot Watercraft           : 0                      Pool: 6
Pistols                    : 1                      Pool: 7
Riding                     : 0                      Pool: 6
Running                    : 2                      Pool: 10
Shadowing                  : 0                      Pool: 2
Survival                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Swimming                   : 2                      Pool: 10
Throwing Weapons           : 0                      Pool: 5
Tracking                   : 0                      Pool: 2
Unarmed Combat             : 0                      Pool: 5

== Knowledge Skills ==

== Contacts ==
Fence (2, 2)

== Qualities ==
Adept
Allergy (Uncommon, Severe) (Animal fur)
Incompetent (Animal Handling)
Incompetent (Animal Training)
Low-Light Vision
Restricted Gear (Rating 1)
Signature

== Powers ==
Counterstrike Rating: 1
Improved Ability (Combat) (Blades) Rating: 1
Improved Ability (Non-Combat) (Hardware) Rating: 2
Improved Reflexes 2
Kinesics Rating: 2

== Lifestyles ==
Low  1 months

== Cyberware/Bioware ==
Reflex Recorder (Skill Group) (Stealth)
Suprathyroid Gland
Synthacardium Rating 1

== Armor ==
Chameleon Suit            6/4
   +Thermal Damping 6
Form-Fitting Full-Body Suit6/2
   +Fire Resistance 6
SecureTech Forearm Guards 0/1
SecureTech Leg Casings    0/1
SecureTech Shin Guards    0/1
SecureTech Vitals Protector1/1

== Weapons ==
Katar
   +Personalized Grip, Melee
   Pool: 12   DV: 6P   AP: -2   RC: 0
Savalette Guardian
   +Concealable Holster
   +Additional Clip, Pistol
   +Personalized Grip
   +Silencer
   +Smartgun System
   Pool: 9   DV: 5P   AP: -1   RC: 2
Unarmed Attack
   Pool: 5   DV: 4S   AP: -   RC: 0

== Commlink ==
Erika Elite (3, 4, 3, 4)
   +Subvocal Microphone
   +Novatech Navi

== Gear ==
Ammo: Gel Rounds (Heavy Pistols) x100
Autopicker Rating 6
Biomonitor
Contact Lenses Rating 2
   +Smartlink
   +Flare Compensation
Earbuds Rating 2
   +Audio Enhancement Rating 3
   +Select Sound Filter Rating 3
Fake SIN (Close Protection) Rating 4
   +Fake License (Savalette Guardian) Rating 4
Foam Explosive Rating 10
Goggles Rating 3
   +Thermographic
   +Vision Enhancement Rating 3
   +Image Link
Grapple Gun
   +Stealth Rope (100 m)
   +Catalyst Stick
Jammer, Hand Held Rating 2
Keycard Copier Rating 6
Latex Face Mask
Maglock Sequencer Rating 4
Medkit Rating 6
Miniwelder
Plasteel Restraints x2
Radio Detonator x5
Respirator Rating 6
Smart Pouch System, Combat Load Vest
   +Smart Pouch System, Smart Canteen
   +Smart Pouch System, Ammunition Pouch
Tag Eraser
White Noise Generator Rating 6

== Vehicles ==
Indian Pathfinder (Racing Bike)
   +Anti-Theft
   +Morphing License Plate
   +Run Flat Tires Rating 2
   +Spoof Chip
   +Vehicle Sensor
« Last Edit: <02-23-13/2102:22> by Mach_Ten »

Novocrane

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« Reply #27 on: <02-23-13/2144:47> »
It's probably worth pointing out; all your 'ware is bio, and if you included any cyber (Essence value less than your total bio) in that, the essence cost of the cyber would be halved. What to do with cyber is another question. Whether you really need the suprathyroid gland / synthacardium r1 versus muscle toner r4 is the question I'd be asking.

On weapons and strength, if you went back to elf and took a monofilament whip, you could be putting out a decent 8P / -4AP / Reach 2 in melee. That would make strength redundant, and give you reason to up your edge.

Wifi. If you can get skinlink mods into your contacts / earbuds / commlink, that's always going to be a plus.
« Last Edit: <02-23-13/2203:55> by Novocrane »

Mach_Ten

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« Reply #28 on: <02-24-13/0447:17> »
Firstly,  Thanks for ALL the advice,   it's really helped me understand the process a lot more.
 :'(

But,  it looks like,  for ME ... Adepts just don't add up,    I think I need a bit more experience of play before I can make one that I'd enjoy,

I've just thrown away all the magic and powers etc.  and with the nearly 100 extra BP have bought Skills and Cyber / Bio

and Numbers wise  ( abilities and skills)   it is far superior,   

   I'll be rolling as a SAM (sans Bushido code)

I will no doubt be back to annoy and pester you again soon  (probably when I acquire some terminal religion) 

all the best
Mach

(oh,  P.S.  ... how the hell are Move-by-wire  and skillsofts so Utterly expensive ?)
« Last Edit: <02-24-13/0448:49> by Mach_Ten »

UmaroVI

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« Reply #29 on: <02-24-13/0810:19> »
Move-by-wire is expensive because it's really good. Skillsofts are expensive because uhhhh.... they do get more good later on, or if your GM lets you pirate them.