[Supine]

There's two really easy options for a post-apoc game.

1: Set it in Chicago

2: Make everything basically like Chicago

Everything else is a little more complex, but an idea for fluffing it out is that if it's set in the world of Shadowrun, it's important that the corps are the ones that drop the bombs. The nations' armies are too decentralized and weak to do what they could once upon a time. They might not even have nukes anymore, and if they do they won't use them. The corps, however,  have more than enough power to tear the world apart, and they might do just that if, say, the Corporate Court collapsed and the corps decided it'd be best to take out the competition.

[Sichr]

Os make everything SCIRE like

[emsquared]

@emsquared: now im not sure how much familiar with the setting you are, but multiple mana cycle events, Goblinization, multiple Crashes (btw destroying most infrastructure), multiple Vitas plagues, Surge...I cannot see why war in north america should be even important in shadow of those multiple apocalyptic events.

That's why I said it wasn't an apocalypse in the contemporary sense, these would fit a classical definition of apocalypse. But Xyzl was referencing "End of Times" inspirations. If you can leave your luxury apartment, wave to your door-man, get in your sedan, go down the street to the stuffer shack and get your stuffy-deluxe with a shake, while checking out the latest celebrity buzz on your commlink, on the way to your 9-5 as a finance administrator - it's not after the apocalypse. Sorry, it just isn't.

[Sichr]

IMO all those PA visions just underestimate mankind's will and ability to survival and rebuild. We pray on this so called civilisation like it is something prescious. You need to realize, that what you will call apocalypse...loss of comunication, infrastructure, crash of global monetary system, all of that is still day to day reality for wast populated areas on the earth. And they still live their normal lives, breed, hope and some even prosper. And if the "end of days" scenario cames to play, it is usualy methaphore for isolation and loneliness. This can be difficult to roleplay, when you are sitting in the living room, sharing the game with your friends. But not impossible.

[emsquared]

We pray on this so called civilisation like it is something prescious. You need to realize, that what you will call apocalypse...loss of comunication, infrastructure, crash of global monetary system, all of that is still day to day reality for wast populated areas on the earth. And they still live their normal lives, breed, hope and some even prosper.

Dude, I dunno when (or why) you transitioned from talking about a game and tropes of popular culture to reality, but I don't need to realize anything. I'm well aware of how most people on earth live, and I'm well aware of the resiliency of humans. What you need to realize is that the OP asked for input on how to make Shadowrun more like an End-of-Times Post-Apocalypse setting, that's what I'm giving input on. Not on your opinions of what might or should or will be an apocalypse, and not even on MY opinions of what might or should or will be an apocalypse. Ya dig?

If you want SR to be more like Fallout or Mad Max, you're looking at a complete decentralization of all human power structure/civilization (no rule of law, with the exception of isolated settlements), a complete loss of large-scale infrastructure where mankind is living off the remnants of former society (with the exception of isolated and either tyrannical or secretive populations), and a complete reduction of social and civil structures to essentially tribes, distrustful at best of each other. That's what those settings are characterized by, and that's what I'm talking about because that's what this thread wanted to talk about. I think 'ware would no longer be in production, only available via "recycling" and therefore probably buggy and ESS devouring, the Matrix wouldn't be around because it requires massive technical infrastructure, and high-tech weaponry wouldn't be in production anymore either, all of this with to the exception of a few pocket civilizations that happened to make it through or have harvested the knowledge and technology. Magic would be feared if not reviled, most would be toxic and/or those who aren't are in danger of drifting that way, racism and classism and all kinds of prejudice would be rampant, corporations are gone (at least as such) and generally everywhere is now the Barrens, or the Wild West, or a 3rd-World Country.

What do you find objectionable to this vision, in relation to how it compares to the aforementioned popular depictions of the Post-Apocalypse?? Because in my opinion, that's pretty much what you're looking at.

[Sichr]

We pray on this so called civilisation like it is something prescious. You need to realize, that what you will call apocalypse...loss of comunication, infrastructure, crash of global monetary system, all of that is still day to day reality for wast populated areas on the earth. And they still live their normal lives, breed, hope and some even prosper.

Dude, I dunno when (or why) you transitioned from talking about a game and tropes of popular culture to reality...

This happens when I have to wake up at 0500AM and drive to the work

If you want to enjoy this kind of setting in shadowrun, you can just use what setting already offers: Desert Wars. Chicago. Madagascar. lots of places in france. Areas hit by Black tide. Lagos, New Dehli and other feral cities. Everything you ask for is there. Just use it.

[Mithlas]

If you want SR to be more like Fallout or Mad Max, you're looking at a complete decentralization of all human power structure/civilization (no rule of law, with the exception of isolated settlements), a complete loss of large-scale infrastructure where mankind is living off the remnants of former society (with the exception of isolated and either tyrannical or secretive populations), and a complete reduction of social and civil structures to essentially tribes, distrustful at best of each other.

While I agree that this is a trope of post-apocalyptic settings, I want to point out that Xzylvador mentioned over 50 years passing. Without something actively disrupting remaining civilization, people are going to rebuild. We may not have functional airports and mass-transit, but it's likely that at least some cities will have (re)built rail connections, and it's very likely that roads will have been rebuilt across large regions.

high-tech weaponry wouldn't be in production anymore either, all of this with to the exception of a few pocket civilizations that happened to make it through or have harvested the knowledge and technology

Precision manufacture could have started to move out of the "dark ages" if it's been 50 years (unlikely with 30 or less), so we may or may not see new-model sport rifles, smartguns, non-dirigible aircraft, etc. Until 60 years it would still be unlikely to see miniturized tilt-wing aircraft or drones, lasers, grindlink-compatible cars, and things like that.

Beyond any of those and it becomes less about what humans might realistically be capable enough (even psychohistory had trouble predicting planets' paths in Isaac Asimov's foundation) and more about what the storyteller wants the theme to be (survival of the fittest? Everything's gone. What is civilization and man's relationship to it? Both guns and medicine are pretty much back...)

[Sichr]

BTW the rest of the post was IMO what I think this PA metaphore means for us right now. What symbols can describe it and what are they describing. But so far I`m not interrested in continuing this kind of intelectual trip...as more imminent things are here to take care of 
good night

[GiraffeShaman]

If you want to enjoy this kind of setting in shadowrun, you can just use what setting already offers: Desert Wars. Chicago. Madagascar. lots of places in france. Areas hit by Black tide. Lagos, New Dehli and other feral cities. Everything you ask for is there. Just use it.

I did this for a single long Shadowrun set in the Crash Zone in the Redmond Barrens. I just had Ares cordon the whole area off and refuse to let anyone out without a search and questioning. The team couldn't easily leave because they had found a bit of nano tech Ares wanted. And to try to get a bit of that scrounging Fallout feeling, I had rat shamans steal ammo and food supplies. Worked fairly well for that limited duration, but the team was itching to leave and get back to modern conveniences, especially since there was a nasty background count.

[Sichr]

Yeah. Barrens. It is funny that players usualy want to go international ASAP, while it is possible to spend years in the same neighborhood and stil have a lot to do.

[emsquared]

I want to point out that Xzylvador mentioned over 50 years passing.

Actually it was "30 or 40" but who's counting. As you and I have both now mentioned, it's not the point of this post to get into the logistics and reality of what a re-building process would require, and where it would/should/or could be at after X years. Ultimately it's about what you want the setting to reflect, and Xzyl said:

[Enough time has passed for] gangs of bandits to form, raiding the wastelands; "Governments" to form, re-form and fight each other over who is the real government; a few surviving smaller cities/enclaves barricading themselves in, torn between wanting to shoot anyone who approaches the walls for safety but needing to trade with outsiders for food and resources; etc.
Well... you know. Fallout, Wasteland, Mad-Max. Only it happened in Shadowrun anno 2074; so there still is some tech around, 'ware, magic, genetech, etc. ... I don't want the "end of technology"

I don't find this vision of Xzylv's to be inconsistent with what I've said. However, the notion that you could still buy 'ware and guns off the shelf I found to be wholly and completely inconsistent with a "Fallout, Wasteland, Mad-Max" PA-setting, even if it's not the End of Technology. Why? Because of the sheer amount of utility-power it requires to manufacture this stuff, that's why I said that 'ware should be 2nd, 3rd or 4th hand (pulled out of body after body), and high-tech stuff shouldn't be in production (YET AGAIN I say - with the exception of a few pockets who've held onto, unearthed or restored the technology on a small scale).

I don't think anything I've said is even that inconsistent with what you've said, Mithlas.

[viaRailGun]

one form of PA-setting which wasn't brought up would be one where technology reigned. for instance: multiple AIs warring over power while the remaining humans/metas, also at war with eachother staying true to the many factions of SR, stuggle to survive. thinking similar to terminator: salvation, more battlefield earth(with the exception of robots instead of aliens).

thoughts?

[Mirikon]

@emsquared: now im not sure how much familiar with the setting you are, but multiple mana cycle events, Goblinization, multiple Crashes (btw destroying most infrastructure), multiple Vitas plagues, Surge...I cannot see why war in north america should be even important in shadow of those multiple apocalyptic events.

Except that those weren't apocalyptic events, Sichr. They may have been major deals, perhaps even to the level of cataclysms, but none of them were the apocalypse. Not in North America, anyways. Africa is a completely different story. But then, it always is.

The difference between the individual calamities that have gone down and an apocalypse would be the same as the difference between a 7.0 earthquake and a 10.0 earthquake.

[Sichr]

IE Crash: economic, energetic, social and healthcare infrastructure disappears or is shattered GLOBALY, overnight, followed by several meltdowns, major leaks in chemical industry. And, inevitably, major damage of knowlede base. Ability to recover from such event, as described in shadowrun timeline, is optimistic to the level of expectation of major miracle every day years in the row. For apocalyptic setting all you need is to apply pesimism and Murphy's laws. I understand, that this is different from "The Road" or "Cats Cradle" scenario, where all is gone including hope. But Fallout/Wasteland setting is another case, since those are recover/rebuild scenarios, where humanity prevails. Just for an inpiration, nice image of what Crash would have done and how it creates beautiful urban postapo setting I'd recomend Knut Faldbakken: Aftenlandet (well I not sure if it was translated to eglish)

[Xzylvador]

The crash really doesn't seem to have done so much damage to the level of science and knowledge of the human civilization. If anything, it looks like it pushed it further, boosting research and infrastructure for a completely new and more complex, wireless matrix.
Sure, data was lost, but science where it is in 2074 is much, much further than it was in 2055. On some fields, such as on the field of communications, I'd say i'd guess they've done more progress than they would have done without Crash 2.0.