[Xzylvador]

I'm a huge fan of Fallout and Wasteland... and Shadowrun of course.
The Wasteland 2 gameplay footages has got me wanting more, but I've still got to wait a long time for that game.
So maybe Shadowrun can help me get my fix of post-apocalyptic game.

To make it manageable and playable, though, I don't want to change too many (if any) of the existing rules and base it on the Shadowrun world.
So I need suggestions on how to make this game.

1. Setting:
Mostly, I'm playing with the idea of having someone/something causes a global war, resulting in bombs being detonated around the planet and destroying most of civilization as we know it. A powerful rogue AI seems most likely; they'd probably have the least problems with extinguishing life morally and have the best chance of breaking into military systems in order to activate the launch of ICBM's and stealth-bomber drones.
The game itself would then probably play 30 or 40 years past the event. This'd have given humanity a chance to "reorganize". Read: gangs of bandits to form, raiding the wastelands; "Governments" to form, re-form and fight each other over who is the real government; a few surviving smaller cities/enclaves barricading themselves in, torn between wanting to shoot anyone who approaches the walls for safety but needing to trade with outsiders for food and resources; etc.
Well... you know. Fallout, Wasteland, Mad-Max. Only it happened in Shadowrun anno 2074; so there still is some tech around, 'ware, magic, genetech, etc. Which brings me to point 2.

2. Equipment:
I don't want the "end of technology", mainly because I don't believe it'll happen. People are resourceful enough to salvage what can be salvaged; as said before, there'd be some places that survived because they were either not an interesting target or because they somehow beat the odds and managed to ward off some of the incoming fire. Heck, could be there's still some arcologies standing; at least partly. Of course, they'll all be in pretty bad shape; but there'll still be some medical facilities, people who know how stuff works, how to build it, where it can be built.
This'd allow me to use the rules as the exist without going over each item and saying "No, can't be found anymore" or "Yeah, that's still around".
But I also want everything to be harder to find... Would doubling all availability work?
Of course, money is another factor. I can imagine the first decade or so, money'd be worthless and trading for resources'd be the most important. Would it be credible to have money return after 4 decades? Would they use the little printed money that was used before the apocalypse or would they have a new system (aka, bottle caps), if so, what would make the most sense? Actual rare metals? New coins? New bills? Credsticks instead of physical cash already (doubt it)?
Anything I'm forgetting here? Stuff that'd really just be impossible to get? Stuff that'd be useless?
 
3.
Need input!
What am I missing? What can I use, what shouldn't I forget?
I believe there's a problem with nukes and magic? Still, some (half, more, less?) would have detonated, no? Could the increase of radioactivity and the distortion of magic because of all the damage and suffering have accelerated and increased mutation? I figure I can make up fluff about this as fits the setting best, but I'd like some back-up from precedents.
Of course, there'd have been plenty of thermobaric MOAB/FOAB bombs flying around and afaik those don't get messed with by magic, right?
Would there be more awakened critters and SURGE'd people walking around? "Freaks" already have a higher chance of having survived the apocalypse because they lived secluded from civilization, no?
How would megacorps work, IF they still work? I recon they'd still be a power. The media-based ones might have collapsed; but the ones more focused on weapons or resources could still be around and pretty powerful. Would Maersk (lots and lots of ships, harbors and resources around the world) and Proteus (Don't they have arcologies in the ocean, even below water? They could have survived and be among the most hospitable places in the world.) have increased its relative influence and replaced Horizon, Renraku, Neonet? Would there still (or again) be some sort of corporate council or would it just be a free-for-all?

[ImmortalShade]

check out hazard pay, It covers the underwater arcologies, space stations and moon/mars bases, as well as the rules for arctic and dessert environments.

my main question would be what happened to the dragons?

[Sichr]

The world where at least 80% of awakened is Toxic 

[Xzylvador]

Hm. Dragons. Good point.
I generally consider them much, much too far above the PC's level to have any direct impact on the game...
Still, would be nice to have an answer; unless of course the remains of civilization don't have a real answer neither.
Could be that many were killed, after all their HQ's and lairs would be prime targets.
(Some of) the ones that survived might want to lay low for a couple of centuries to lick their wounds; others might decide that running keeping a low-profile and influencing things from behind the curtain instead of playing the bigshot; others still might see this as proof that they should dominate and might grab entire areas as their own (not really anyone around to stop 'em)...
Ideas & thoughts are always welcome, though.

[Sichr]

You know this sounds like The Surge...

[Bewilderbeast]

I feel like this could marginalize hackers and especially technomancers. If vast quantities of the UCAS have turned into an uninhabitable radioactive wasteland, there's not going to be a lot of wireless traffic to use your l337 skills on (I'd imagine).

[ImmortalShade]

I feel like this could marginalize hackers and especially technomancers. If vast quantities of the UCAS have turned into an uninhabitable radioactive wasteland, there's not going to be a lot of wireless traffic to use your l337 skills on (I'd imagine).

conversely we could see a new semi living matrix hosted by technomancers and the remaining functional tech, perhaps new echos let technomancers use the wilderness as a part of the matrix ala avatar. Technomancers could be highly sought after for their abilities to repair damn near anything with machine sprites, know most things with tutor sprites, and have long range communication via echos and resonance realms. takes some doing but even in a lower tech world technomancers could work fine.

[emsquared]

Do you want a Post-Apocalyptic game or do you want Post-Apocalyptic Shadowrun...?

By which I mean, do you want to still have the flavor of Shadowrun or do you want pure, dystopian Post-Apocalyptica? You can't have the high-fantasy/cyberpunk AND post-apocalyptica, really... well, you can, but you end up with the Matrix (i.e. the movies) and that just leads to giant techno-dance parties in caves, and no one wants that.

A general classic (and IMO, vital) trope of PA-settings is the near-complete loss of infrastructure. No more wide-scale power generation, no more wide-scale industrial complexes, no more wide-scale food production (which means no more mass population centers), and no more easy travel - no interstate or planes or anything that requires large amounts of concentrated fuel. It wasn't an Apocalypse if you still have infrastructure. This doesn't mean you have to get rid of technology completely, it would just be relegated to a few small pockets of populations, who probably guard it jealously and are either abusive with it or extremely secretive and distrustful. Just doubling availability would not be adequate, or at least not in my mind. It would have to be largely unavailable, or perhaps what is available is automatically 2nd Hand or 3rd or 4th even... until you find one of those pockets of knowledge. The vast majority of populations should be surviving off of the desolated remnants of the former society, not just pulling it out of their pockets like it was just a hard rain they were avoiding.

Not only because of whatever caused the Apocalypse, but also because of this loss of infrastructure, another vital trope is a massive reduction in population (like 1 in 5, maybe 1 in 10 people survived). Population centers are smaller and farther away from each other. Prejudice is higher, fear of magic, other races, even technology - as that is possibly what brought about the apocalypse.

Basically, what is being described doesn't sound like a Post-Apoclyptic game to me... it sounds like a slightly more inconvenient Shadowrun. Ultimately, I think a PA game (a game where the focus of the setting is the aftermath of the apocalypse) would/should have a distinctly different feel and features than "Shadowrun After a Big War".

[Netzgeist]

I haven't read everything everyone posted, so maybe some of the things I may be pointing out are already said. Anyway, I read your post and found the idea interesting, so I needed to write some random thoughts on it while they were still forming in my mind.
- Wouldn't it be more interesting (and more PA and shadowrun-like as well) not to have any explanation on what have caused the war/apocalypse? Things blowed up, information was lost, and now every one who put two and two together decides that any group they don't exactly understand could be the guilty party. A healthy dose of paranoia work miracles. Maybe it was an AI, but who can tell for sure if these ever existed? And that guys who controlled bots with their minds always were suspicious... Also, I've heard that before everything went to this hell, trolls were sold as slaves, and since the land was killed, everyone is equally fucked up; not saying anything, but things makes you wonder, you know? Anyway, if the dragons were all killed, how come no one never found any trace of their bones? Maybe I'm just over-evaluating an idea, but I like when the past history is lost as well as it's way of life. Or maybe it's just some effect of remembering a Canticle to Leibowitz when a read your post.
- At least the way I see post-apocalyptic settings, money really makes no sense. But there's a lot of things which would held value - functioning gear, food, fuel, drugs... Or maybe possession could be based on a system of reputation (if you have read Eclipse Phase, that's what I have in mind right now).
- I'm with emsquared on the availability issue. Just doubling it seems cheap and light-toned. But I have no clue on how to keep tech in the game while turning it rarer in the setting without making everyone just turn to magic.

[GiraffeShaman]

But I have no clue on how to keep tech in the game while turning it rarer in the setting without making everyone just turn to magic.

In order for it to be Shadowrun still you'd want to somehow make magic part of the apocalypse anyway. Massive amounts of toxic zones and high background areas. Also, it's possible that whatever safe/selfish zones are left, such as still surviving megacorps are actually kidnapping and enslaving/hiring most magicians. It's pretty much what goes on in the regular SR world. The megacorps and cartels take away most of the skilled magicians from the Barrens that they can get their grubby hands on.

[Bewilderbeast]

But I have no clue on how to keep tech in the game while turning it rarer in the setting without making everyone just turn to magic.

In order for it to be Shadowrun still you'd want to somehow make magic part of the apocalypse anyway. Massive amounts of toxic zones and high background areas. Also, it's possible that whatever safe/selfish zones are left, such as still surviving megacorps are actually kidnapping and enslaving/hiring most magicians. It's pretty much what goes on in the regular SR world. The megacorps and cartels take away most of the skilled magicians from the Barrens that they can get their grubby hands on.

Yup. Personally, I'd err on the side of lots and lots of toxic spirits. Background counts seem a little "unfun", basically amounting to: "Hey, your magic character isn't magic anymore for the rest of the run. Good luck with that." But tons and tons of toxic spirits make sense for a nuclear wasteland setting, and I mean... there are actual "radiocative" spirits in Street Magic.

[Sichr]

You can't have the high-fantasy/cyberpunk AND post-apocalyptica, really... well, you can, but you end up with the Matrix (i.e. the movies) and that just leads to giant techno-dance parties in caves, and no one wants that.

Hell I thought that is what Shadowrun is meant to be. High fantasy/Cyberpunk postapocalyptic dystopia. Where am I wrong?

[emsquared]

Hell I thought that is what Shadowrun is meant to be. High fantasy/Cyberpunk postapocalyptic dystopia. Where am I wrong?

It's a high fantasy/cyberpunk dystopian future, sure. But hardly post-apocalyptic in a classic sense (or maybe, not in a contemporary sense? ). War happens all the time, that it happened in North America doesn't make it "the Apocalypse". The rule of law is still pervasive, as are modern conveniences like running water, on-demand power, easily attainable food, healthcare, and everything that generally classifies civilization as fully functional, even if it has a healthy dose of dysfunction in there with it. No. No apocalypse to be post-of.

[Mithlas]

The source is always eventually dealt with, but I remember in the video game series Metal Max (Metal Saga outside Japan), it wasn't until the third game where "why/how did this happen" is ever dealt with, and even then how flying manta ray-B2 spirit stealth bomber fusions exist is left to "it's amusing, now go play the game".

As for availability I would decide on a city (not a massive one) that's somewhat managed to pull itself out of the dark ages (not recovered completely), and speculate on what that would have. Assume that travel isn't completely gone and use their values for most places, with those super lucky underwater arcologies and cloistered bases not listed on outside matrix nodes manage to scrape by unscathed until they run out of supplies, which would still undoubtedly leave them in trouble by 50 years later.

@ emsquared: you can still have an apocalypse with some infrastructure there, but 1) most of it will be rebuilt from whatever can be put together afterwards, and 2) don't underestimate how survivable humans are. I'm sure that at least some samples of any particular technology would be around 15 years later, and possibly 30 years later assuming they're not destroyed by desperate moron outsiders. If they make it past those 30 years, they're probably regional powers of their own trying to get the rest of their standard of living up to what it used to be.

[Sichr]

@emsquared: now im not sure how much familiar with the setting you are, but multiple mana cycle events, Goblinization, multiple Crashes (btw destroying most infrastructure), multiple Vitas plagues, Surge...I cannot see why war in north america should be even important in shadow of those multiple apocalyptic events.