[firebug]

I've noticed there's a surprising lack of unarmed "weapons" in Shadowrun.  The Hardliner gloves are pretty much a bare-bones modification, and I'm honestly surprised there isn't more basic things like brass knuckles.

But there -is- shock gloves.  But I've never been totally clear on how they work.  Do they...  Add that damage to punches?  If I roll to attack with them, should I add extra hits on the roll to their electrical damage?  Or would it just apply to any "normal damage" dealt if the character is punching while discharging the gloves?  Is that even possible?  Or do they not work that way (if the electricity comes from the finger tips or palm, it'd be very hard to hit someone hard enough to hurt them while electrocuting them).

What about stuff like the core rule "Use a called shot to increase the DV of an attack by up to +4, but take an equal penalty to your attack roll"?  It doesn't seem too unreasonable for there to be more painful places to shock, and rules as written it works (but I've always been a much bigger Rules As Intended kind of girl).

Finally, what if a player said they wanted a way to "overcharge" the gloves?  Maybe a small increase in damage for a dramatic reduction in "ammo capacity".  I got the idea from the mention of the StimmTouch Hosiery from Attitude.  The shadowtalk mentions that sort of thing for something that doesn't normally even do that.  It, to me, sounds exactly like the sort of clever (mis)use of technology a runner should pull off.  But electric damage is something to watch out for as a GM, I understand (judging from the discussions of the ammo that shall not be named).

How do you handle them in your games?  And while we're on the subject, how do you handle similar "frankentech" that your characters might come up with, hoping to make modifications to objects, armor, and weapons that's not listed in the books?

[Mirikon]

Shock gloves work differently from a punch. You touch the target with the contact points, and the shock is delivered. Same with a stun club.

As for there being a supposed lack of unarmed weapons, it isn't that different from real life. Once you move past the brass knuckle or metal gauntlet stage, everything else is weapons, pure and simple.

[Mithlas]

Well, there's a variety of things that aren't functionally great weapons (namely due to no reach improvement which even a dagger gives), and I use those in my games. In case you're curious, they are:

Knuckle Dusters - 50¥, Avail: 4R
DV: (Str/2)+1
(You could also include things like "rope guantlets" as they're functionally the same except the knuckle dusters technically provide more protection to your hands)

Palm Claws (aka Bagh Nakh, Tekagi-shuko) - 60¥, Avail: 6F
DV: (Str/2)
Special: +1 to freehand climbing checks, +1 to block/parry at melee. -2 to precision movements involving full hands like pistols.

I also use Polearms as a category of weapons also under the Close Combat group, because as a historian I am too familiar with the fact that Polearms dominated warfare from the stone age until the introduction of the proper rifle, with their only real competition being bows. Examples include the national weapon of Japan - the yari 槍, not the katana. Spears being an Exotic Weapon do not sync with reality. But that drifts off-topic from "unarmed" weapons.

[firebug]

Your responses about unarmed weapons are very helpful.  Do either of you have any input on the rest of my question?  XP  Like beyond the first two sentences of my post?

For real though, you did bring up good points. 

[Mirikon]

As I said, Shock Gloves function differently from a punch. You aren't punching someone with your electro-fist, you're putting a hand on them like you were playing touch football and giving them an electric shock. Regarding the called shot rules and shock gloves, that is easily described as aiming for all those places they tell you NOT to aim a tazer (face, groin, etc.). No problems there.

Regarding 'overcharging' the gloves? No. Electric damage is Stun damage, period. Only way Electric does Physical is when it overflows the Stun track. End of story.

As far as 'frankentech', I've never seen it come up before.

[firebug]

Mirikon, I mean like...  Would you apply extra hits to the damage?  If you roll 3 net hits, is the final DV of the shock gloves 8(e)?  Also, I didn't say anything about making electricity deal physical damage...  I just mean like, as opposed to 10 charges of 5(e), it's 2 charges of 7(e).  To express that it's got a higher voltage, thus hitting harder, but the internal battery drains much faster.

[Mirikon]

Yes, you apply extra hits to damage, same as with any other attack.

And the problem with 'overcharging' electrical devices is that instead of working better, they tend to fail utterly and can't be used again until you replace the electrical parts.

[Xzylvador]

One problem I had with the Shock Gloves is that they either:
1. Add damage on top of your unarmed damage from you fist hitting someone.
OR
2. Require a touch with an open palm instead of a punch with a closed fist.

I agree with Mirikon that it should be the second, if for no other reason than balance.
But in that case, isn't the attacker entitled to a +2 dice pool modifier to his attack because it's a touch attack?

(No problem with adding net hits or called shots for a longer touch at a more painful place.)

[All4BigGuns]

One problem I had with the Shock Gloves is that they either:
1. Add damage on top of your unarmed damage from you fist hitting someone.
OR
2. Require a touch with an open palm instead of a punch with a closed fist.

I agree with Mirikon that it should be the second, if for no other reason than balance.
But in that case, isn't the attacker entitled to a +2 dice pool modifier to his attack because it's a touch attack?

(No problem with adding net hits or called shots for a longer touch at a more painful place.)

Actually there would be no "balance" issues with the first one. It would be two separate DVs and thus two separate Soak rolls.

[Mirikon]

I agree with Mirikon that it should be the second, if for no other reason than balance.
But in that case, isn't the attacker entitled to a +2 dice pool modifier to his attack because it's a touch attack?

(No problem with adding net hits or called shots for a longer touch at a more painful place.)

Yes, they would get the +2 to attack because it is a touch attack. Of course, the defender gets to add any Nonconductivity they have to resist damage, so that evens out.

Actually there would be no "balance" issues with the first one. It would be two separate DVs and thus two separate Soak rolls.

One attack invoking multiple soak rolls is a balance concern, Guns. Nowhere else in the whole frigging game does that happen. One attack, one soak roll.

[Mithlas]

Yes, they would get the +2 to attack because it is a touch attack. Of course, the defender gets to add any Nonconductivity they have to resist damage, so that evens out.

I know that a touch attack is considered successful if the attacker equals or exceeds the defender's hits, but I don't recall a touch attack having a +2 modifier to connect. Where is that?

[Xzylvador]

Melee Modifiers table, SR4A 157.

[Mithlas]

Ah, I don't deal with that nearly as often as Superior Position, so I couldn't remember. Thanks for the page reference.